I would say that these are definitely the items that will date an over-40 – especially if they are items that the person has owned for years and years. So I think Charla’s advice, while it may seem extreme, is fairly sound if one is trying to not look old. (Which is why people buy her book).

Some of these can be updated. Take Kyle’s jeans. I don’t see “1980 acid washed jeans” when I look at those. They are a modern update. Likewise, granny undies can be updated with modern-day shapewear.

Penny loafers… I struggle with this one. There are certainly some penny loafers out there that look quite dowdy, and others that do not. (That would make a good blog post.)

Oversized blazer… a circa 1980 version is going to look dated compared to a circa 2009 version.

Shoulder pads… I think small shoulder pads nearly always work in suits that need them. But I suspect Charla is referring to vintage 80s shoulder pads that were HUGE.

Mommy robes: I think these are the polyester robes that have a zipper up the front?

The only person who can get away with a holiday sweater is a kindergarten teacher or a person over 60. Anyone else should be cited. Photo handbags are chessy. Short shorts are fine especially in Houston. Just have the toned legs. Ripped jeans? I’ll rock them on the weekends at the mall. Gold chains? Ewwww…

Shiny, I’m not sure that I fully understand what you mean. Are you saying that if the stuff is dated, get rid of it anyway. But if it’s current (and “old lady”) hold onto it for lounging purposes only? I’d love to hear more.

Charla’s descriptions are a little loose and that’s why I’ve opened up the discussion. Everything is subject to interpretation! Hope that makes sense.

Hmmm… this is a hard one. I agree with majority of your comments Angie, especially backpacks. I think I’m thinking too much from a 30’s perspective. Although I don’t own most of them, a girl in her 20s can get away with some of the pieces like a 3-piece suit, thin gold chain (i own one and use quite often), short shorts and loafers. However, there are things on the list that look dated and old-fashioned by age. Just as there are pieces that look funny when worn under the age of 40 while it’s completely elegant and stylish for a 40+ lady.

Lola, are you condoning short shorts in public when you’re over the age of 40 if you have toned legs? Just want to make sure I‘ve understood what you’ve said.

I know exactly where she’s coming from with each of these pieces, but agree that many of them can’t be deemed outright “don’ts” … especially when it comes to lounging at home, there’s always some wiggle room.

Like with the whole “over 30″ discussion a few weeks ago, there are again caveats for everything.

I pass personally on all holiday sweaters, but I saw some this winter that were not bad. I remember a red, nicely shaped sweater from this winter that had a couple sparkly snowflakes over a shoulder. I think that is a far cry from a chunky knit with a whole snowfamily on it.

The granny/mommy jewelry is an issue that I think is highly personal and not all jewelry is created equal. While I might not care for some styles, there are lots of reasons to sport items, especially when there is grief involved. I can think of some friends who wear jewelry to commemorate a child or grandchild that passed or to celebrate a child or grandchild that was long-anticipated due to infertility or miscarriages or some other situation. Some pieces are rather abstract, and those are my favorites. I have an abstract mother/child pendant that was a gift for my first Christmas as a mom. After waiting 10 years for that occasion, it was like receiving a medal of honor.

I read the comments on your previous backpack post. I don’t care for the look much, and it’s probably not something I would sport much, but due to back issues, toting children or grandchildren, or other issues, the practicality issue needs to reign for some. Having more stylish options is very helpful for people who need that.

So what is the rule about flesh colored hose or trouser socks?

Angie, I like your version much better! I very much agree that Situational context, body type and persona play a big role, so I might be less conservative. Take the shorts shorts (not sure how short you define short). I think that shorts mid thigh on toned legs looks great and sporty. I recall seeing a woman in her early 50’s with fab legs wearing these shorts in the park. Good for her!

i love my flesh colored stockings. I think they look classy, but I also dress in slightly vintage style, and I think bare legs + 50s style clothing is a no-no. I do realize it sin’t for anyone, and I don’t where them with my “modern” clothes.

These lists are always fun to read. When I am done reading it, I usually hope to breath an air of relief because I am not in the group that the list is intended for.
However, a few items caught my attention:
1. flesh colored hose – I avoid them like plague, but a few weeks ago I wore a pair because I really wanted to wear a skirt and dark tights were just wrong but it was too cold to go barelegged. I wanted to rip the hose off the entire day, but I do wander what the rule is for wearing them. Or better yet, what is an acceptable alternative?
2. Cargo pants – although I don’t own them now, I love cargo pants. They are really cool if done right. I think JCrew sells some (or it did last year), but they were kind of fitted and looked really nice. So all cargos are not created equal.
3. Three piece suit – like cargos, all 3-piece suits are not created equal. It has to be really nicely fitted pant suit with a shorter jacket and vest, and you must accessorize with a cool scarf or tie, and super hip shoes.
4. Backpacks – I make my husband wear the backpack when we travel. It works great!

oh dear, sorry for all those typos!

Angie, I mean that if it’s an item you’ve held on to for 25 years, it’s probably dated – even if it’s back in style again. Does that make sense? The styles do come in and out of fashion, but never the exact same way. Oversized blazers and acid wash jeans are two perfect examples. Acid wash jeans you’ve had in your closet for 25 years are undoubtedly going to have a high waist and pleats and look terribly dated, not modern. You can’t pass it off as the modern version of a previous trend. (Except possibly with major alterations).

Regarding short shorts, I still wear these – but only when boating or participating in other activities where a skirt would be silly and impractical, and clamdiggers would be too hot. I don’t know if they qualify as “short shorts” on me though, considering how short I am. I have always found that any shorts longer than 4 inches looks incredibly dowdy on me – unless they fit like clams and are at the knee. In which case, they’re clams, not shorts. This actually applies to work-out shorts and running shorts too!! It is really hard to find ones that are short enough they look proportionate for someone as short as I am.

I suspect this list would be most helpful with photos – this is a DON’T but this way could be a DO. For example on the forum – the Birkenstock thread – someone recently posted a photo of a Birkenstock DO that really drives the point home for me, how this type of sandal can look quite lovely when done right. But I think this tends to fall into the “advanced” how-to column…. you have to start somewhere …

#15 Mommy robes – I agree that she means a long, fleecy or poly robe with a zipper up the front. Not sexy or stylish. Also not something one would leave the house in I hope.

#16 Thin gold chains. Seems to me that a very new, cool trend is to layer a few thin necklaces (with tiny pendants or detail) and I would hesitate to ban all thin gold necklaces. They can look perfect with right outfit.

It is always about elevating the item it seems and putting the correct use to our clothes (sweats – obviously can be good or horrific) that counts.

Danja–I think nude fishnets are generally a good choice in the situation you described.

Also, I love vintage (i.e. narrowly cut) souvenir t-shirts as my way of doing a graphic tee and adding some interest to an otherwise boring outfit full of solids. They range from fairly abstract and graphic to the outright silly (four bears doing stereotypically Philadelphia things, including eating a soft pretzel), and I love them.

I actually agree with most of the items on her list. However, I do like thin gold chains with a tiny pendant. I have a Chopard happy heart pendant that is very feminine and is my dafault piece. Given the popularity of Roberto Coin and other designers, I am not sure if I agree with this one.

Also, I have a pair of penny loafers from Coach and a pair from Cole Haan. I have had the Coach ones for several years and they are very traditional shape in navy. I still like them with a pair of jeans and a simple cashmere cardi and tee for weekend casual. The Cole Haan pair is tortoise patent and is slightly more updated with a less heavy and less round toe. They look great with the right skirt or pants. Sometimes a girl just wants a less fussy shoe and for me my loafers work great.

Thanks, Shiny and that makes perfect sense. Items that are 25 years old don’t quite have enough vintage appeal (yet items that are 50 years old often do – interesting). I’m playing devil’s advocate because to your point, Charla’s list would have been more helpful if each item was qualified. But I don’t mean pick things to pieces. One thing is for sure though: as a stylist you have to stand strongly behind what you say when something is a complete “don’t” because there are actually very few of them. This is the main reason why I think this list is a great topic for discussion.

Chris, you are spot on: “It is always about elevating the item it seems and putting the correct use to our clothes that counts”. On that note, I see a short shorts blog debate in our future.

I think that the crux of this list is whether or not you are concerned about looking ‘old’. I entirely agree that “it’s fine to sport not so fab looking sentimental items occasionally”, and if the sentimentality of the piece is what is important to you, then go for it. Where this list comes in is if not looking ‘old’ is more important to you than any of your pieces. You can then follow this guidance and avoid those items. Whether or not there are children in the house, you will likely look like ‘grandma’ if you wear an appliqued holiday sweater and granny necklace.

But WHY is that bad? If you ARE a grandma and you have little grandchildren who love your sweaters, why on earth is NOT looking like a grandma so important to you? I totally see the benefit of educating people about style and how they present themselves, but I think that the purpose of it all should not be to make someone look younger than their age. Some people certainly dress in unflattering ways which age them and many of those habits can certainly be remedied. But our culture’s obsession with looking under 30 is ridiculous.

My mom is a young grandma (44) and she dresses in a stylish, current way. She also wears occasional sentimental pieces that are not items you’d see in InStyle. I’d be disappointed in her if an obsession with looking young made her deny any pride or sentimentality about her children or grandchildren.

I’m not saying that if you don’t have sentimental pieces then you are uncaring or unemotional. I’m saying that urging people to give up a piece that significantly matters to them because “Oh dear, they might look OLD!” is losing sight of the bigger things in life.

All that to say, I appreciate your take on this, Angie, and I’m glad that this site is about dressing well, but not about some narrow-minded quest after apparent youth.

-There was a big debate on Amazon about why women don’t wear hose anymore. I was appalled at how judgmental some of the comments were! Some of the words used to describe the hoseless were truly ugly and now I can’t help but wonder who is judging me unfairly because of my hoselessness. I’m not going to start wearing them just because of a few narrowminded oldies on Amazon, but it always shocks me to see the kinds of things people think it’s okay to say on the internet to a bunch of perfect strangers, especially over something this trivial.

-I’m confused about what acid wash jeans really are. I thought Kyle’s were just light wash or faded jeans. To me, acid jeans are those blotchy unevenly dyed jeans from the 80’s:

http://foreveramber.typepad.co.....hjeans.jpg

I actually don’t mind them in the right context. They have an interesting textural look about them.

I also don’t see what is wrong with short shorts if you live in an extremely hot climate and have the legs for it, especially if you’re doing some kind of outdoorsy activity. A lot of the ones on BR would look great with gladiators or a pair of flats, and when I think about the over-40’s I know, I can’t see why they shouldn’t sport them.

I must say I’ve never worn more than half of this list, but I’m voting for cargo pants to stay! They are great pants and can look more stylish that khakis when they are a little less sport and more urban.

Also, three piece suits – I don’t understand why they are supposed be unappropriate for certain ages, men look great in sharp tailored suits even when they are nearing retirement, why can’t women do the same?

I also wanted to applaud you for your approach to real fur in fashion.

Like this, for example – it’s not me, but it’s a photo from a public gallery about China and tourism. Isn’t she wearing the “feminine” version of cargo pants nicely?

http://img504.imageshack.us/im.....553222.jpg

It is interesting how terribly important it has gotten to not appear “old” and putting lots of useful things in the bin. I like your comments. But, in particular, I would like to point out that some things elevate “personal style” above all other considerations. The holiday sweater is one. Should you wear it to an adult party, no. Should you wear it to family events, why not??? And if you have small children or grandchildren, will they love you because of your style? Will they think you are young? And is that what really matters?

As to nylons–the rigid thinking goes both ways. Frankly, if you are working in a professional job with client, manager, etc. contact, bare legs on older women (or many younger ones, too) are not saying, I am here to work. You are there for reasons other than exhibiting your personality. Fashion is fine, but it is NOT the only thing and sometimes we forget that in our rush to stand out — but for what? Also, older legs, in general, are not usually that lovely. People with less than brown (tan or natural) legs don’t look good, especially with darker outfits. Tights are no more comfortable than nylons. etc. A sense of proportion in situation, environment, and personal dignity ought to be more important than the fashion fancies of the moment which are nearly always directed at the young. By the way, how old is old? Should women start hiding out when they are no longer young, lithe, unmarked, and “sexy” or should there be accomodation and style for them too?

It’s a guideline ladies, a guideline! Not hard and fast rules. I bought the book – and while I’m a woman “over a certain age” – certainly don’t buy every single thing in there. It’s about not wanting to look “silly” or “mutton dressed as lamb”. Not an obsession with me, just using all the tools and ideas to be best I can be.
It’s interesting to read all kinds of ideas, it’s research also for me, being in an industry that I need to be knowledgeable about fashion. As an example, when a lady is wearing a Santa sweater, or muumuu -type thing – most times it screams mom, grandma or old lady. I’ve put them in that and the audience knows right away about their character.
But, seriously, it’s the gals that really will never read this that you sorta wish would – I see most of this stuff almost daily around our little berg.

These lists are always so interesting. From an older woman who sees lots of other older women, I agree with Angie’s comments. General thoughts that strike me:
*I don’t like short shorts on anyone over 12. By short shorts I mean under 4 inches. The exception might be for boating or near the water and then I’d expect them to be a swimsuit coverup.
*The right souvenir tee might be a great graphic tee to wear with a vest if the quality is high.
*Flesh colored stockings, I think, can have their place and I don’t mind seeing them. Danja cracked me up because I felt just the same when I added them at the last minute this weekend for a baby shower when the skirt I was wearing seemed too short to sit in and it was too springy for black tights. Next time I’ll wear the micro-fishnets.

I agree with Angies modified version.

In Houston, there are many stylish women over 40 that looks better in short shorts than I do. Our summers are 95 degrees and up. I believe if you have the confidence and the great gams for short shorts, you should be able to wear them no matter what your age is.

Well, I’m glad to hear loafers are acceptable, because I’m not quite 24 and I wear them! In fact I’m wearing them right now. (They’re Blackberrys, from, from Clarks, if anyone is curious.)

In all honesty, Angie, while I try not to be judgmental about what other people wear – especially older women, who get enough flack from society as it is for not being eyecandy anymore (so cynical at my age, tch) – I pretty much agree with you on all counts. Although I think backpacks that are gear should be acceptable if they’re needed to, say, prevent back injury from a larger load or if one’s on a big trip – where are the larger, stylish backpacks?!

The whole concept of passing judgment on some of these items is a bit odd and, frankly, obnoxious to me. It’s one thing to advise people that wearing flesh-colored hose is not stylish at this time. It’s another to assume that looking stylish is and should be one’s priority at all times, including when one is at home in one’s underpants and/or robe. Give me a break.

I wear sneakers to walk two miles each way to work and carry my shoes and other stuff in a backpack. There, I said it. I choose to believe that I am invisible at these times.

Charla is trying to sell a book to people who are so insecure about their fashion sense that they need to run through a list to understand what to wear and not wear in public.

I find the list a bit sour. So what if you have flannel for yard work. Who the hell wants to run out and buy Ralph Lipshitz flannel shirts? How foolish is that?

And, please, send me your gold jewelry! LMAO.

Charla is full of chit.

Angie: Your take on this is completely common sense and right on. It’s so hard to do a list like this because there are always exceptions to every rule…someone who can find a way to pull off one or more of the “don’ts” with aplomb. However, there are so many bad fashion decisions being made that a list is a reasonable place to start correcting the most common offenders. Unfortunately, those who need the list the most are the least likely to make use of it!
P.S. One of my big pet peeves is rings on every finger — but there’s probably someone somewhere who does it well. Other dislikes: oversprayed, non-moving hair, and a certain brand of sandals that Shiny mentioned!

I just wanted to say that I used to have a pair of red overalls I wore whenever I wanted to donate blood. I was barely over the weight limit back then, and the red overalls made it more believable so they didn’t keep asking me, “Are you sure?” when I claimed to weigh over 110.

That’s probably an exception that proves the rule. Looking heavier isn’t a good look for most (American) people over 40.

Have you visited Charla’s site at all? She started blogging about all of the new tried-and-true Brilliant Buy products in the paperback edition of her book, and it’s a fantastic resource with incredible tips. I can’t wait to use some of the products she’s been suggesting

Here’s the link, if you’re interested!
http://www.charlakrupp.com/blog/

I never get the inclusion of flesh covered hose on these lists. Who wears these to look stylish anyway? We wear them because our job requires it for one reason or another. Anyway, I’m a lawyer and stylish or no, I am not appearing in court with bare legs (and I look much better in skirt suits tha pants suits, so I stick with them); I’ve heard of women getting reamed out by the judge or even kicked out of the courtroom for less.

While things on the list are certainly not stylish (even on people well below 40), I agree with previous commenters that any list should be taken as a guideline and not a hard and fast rule. Nothing wrong with overalls, flannel shirts or ugly jeans if you’re doing yard work or home improvements; nothing wrong with short shorts or muumuus at the beach or pool; nothing wrong with wearing an ugly sentimental item or two sometimes if that spares someone’s feelings; and if your workplace dress code requires flesh colored hose, you have to wear them. It only becomes a problem when people think these things look great, and start wearing them for any and all occasions.

Thank you for the link to Charla’s site. I am over 50 and I thoroughly enjoyed the book, as did Angie. Although my first choice is to check out Angie’s guidelines, I am always interested in what other people have to say. Look at the forum. It is chock full of information and inspiration. I am wondering if the YLFers who were so negative about Charla have seen her book. I found the pictures particularly helpful, and much of the text insightful. No one has to take any advice that doesn’t work for them. Can’t we all express opinions and discuss options and exceptions? I was very surprised to find one particular comment on this site, and I hope that it doesn’t start a trend. I am also hoping that Angie will take on a book one day! She herself photographs beautifully, and look at all the lovely ladies that could be her models!

The only items I have trouble giving up would be my souvenir tees. I’m in the process of experimenting w/a couple; tailoring them into a fitted style. I’ll let you know how these work out!

Here’s my two cents, thanks for reading!

1. Holiday sweaters with bells and appliqués – TOSS
2. Granny/Mommy necklaces that tell you how many grandchildren you have – TOSS
3. Souvenir T-shirts – TOSS
4. T-shirts with meant to be funny sayings – TOSS
5. Overalls – KEEP; To me it depends on the style of the overall, the purpose for which they are worn, and the way they fit on the person wearing them
6. Acid washed jeans – KEEP; They still look nice to me when tailored/cut just so (esp in a skinny jean)
7. Ripped jeans – TOSS
8. Shoulder pads – TOSS
9. Flannel shirts – TOSS
10. Muumuus – TOSS
11. Photo handbags – TOSS
12. Flesh colored hose – KEEP; Some occasions require them
13. Penny loafers – KEEP; These are classic
14. Oversized blazers – TOSS
15. Mommy robes – TOSS
16. Thin-gold-chain necklaces – KEEP; It is REAL gold!
17. Elastic-waist pants – TOSS
18. Granny undies – KEEP; Again, some occasions in life require them…
19. Baggy sweats – KEEP
20. Bearlike, full length fur coats – KEEP
21. Short shorts- KEEP
22. Cargo pants – KEEP
23. Stockings with reinforced toes – KEEP; Again, some occasions in life require them…
24. Three piece suits with vests – KEEP
25. Backpacks – KEEP; But only sport DESIGNER ones like Louie and Coach