The Tribal Trend

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Angie is co-founder of YLF and its resident fashion stylist.

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Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

The Tribal Trend

— by Angie

on October 19, 2011

I call this vibe the tribal trend, but ShopBop refers to it as “Native Citizen”. With its geometric aztec-type patterns and often neutral colours, it is easy to spot. The items are bold, high contrast, and make quite a statement.

I am not drawn to it because it’s a little too earthy, bohemian and casual for my style. But I can appreciate the the tribal trend on others, especially when the colours are brighter or black & white, and the fabrications are luxurious. I have an aztec patterned scarf in black, white, cobalt and neon pink, which makes it feel less earthy and more my style.

I feel the same way about the tribal trend as I used to feel about animal print. Wear one tribal item at a time and make a statement with it. Fashion and style has moved on from then, and these days, it’s totally fab to wear a few harmonious animal print items at a time. I don’t feel that way about tribal items. Yet.

To my eye, tribal items look best worn with a very modern, somewhat dressy, and polished edge. Think leather skinnies and pencil skirts, sheer hosiery and blouses, wedged booties, faux fur, crisp tailored jackets and even pearls. I have bad, bad ’80s memories of casual, oversized aztec “blanket jackets” worn with faded jeans and hiking boots or sneakers. I like sleek and fun ’80s fashion in general, but that particular look left a lot to be desired.

Below are some tribal outfits that resonate with me. Some are more lady-like and dressy, while others are casual. But they all scream “modern edge”, which I think is the key.

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67 comments · Add a comment

Deborah

Veteran

This seems to be a recurring trend. Every Spring/Summer the magazines here display the latest “tribal” trend. Currently we have tribal Jewellery and what’s being described as tribal luxe :). While I think some people wear this well I’m not one of them. The earthy tones don’t generally work for me. I like these examples tho and I think adding that modern edge certainly makes “tribal” more appealing, however I am only just embracing animal print so it could be a while before I’m willing, or ready, to consider this trend.

October 19, 2011 at 3:28 am

April

Veteran

This trend does not resonate with me at all, no matter how much it’s edged up and modernized.

October 19, 2011 at 3:36 am

citygirldc

(website)

Veteran

I like the aztec trend, maybe because I’m so sick of all florals out there. I always tend to go back to geometric shapes because it’s so different, maybe even edgy. Geometrics make me feel chic and cool, while florals make me feel pretty.

October 19, 2011 at 3:48 am

rute

Veteran

I don’t like, don’t know why…I guess it’s not my style!

October 19, 2011 at 4:02 am

Patti @ NotDeadYet Style

(website)

I like it in a fitted, dressier way – like the Thakoon skirt you are showing. That’s a gorgeous print. I don’t lean toward over-sized pieces though, they swallow me up.

October 19, 2011 at 4:38 am

Jonesy

Veteran

I really love this trend–love!

October 19, 2011 at 4:43 am

Vildy

Veteran

I feel like a poseur in this stuff, so I avoid it. Same thing with too many moto pieces, say. But with tribal ya only need the one piece to look costumey.

October 19, 2011 at 4:51 am

sarah

Veteran

The tribal trend definitely appeals to my earthy, boho elements, and I love it. For example, that Nic+Zoe dress that you recommended, Angie, became a summer workhorse! And the cape the Anna sported the other day knocked my socks off. I’m in!

October 19, 2011 at 4:51 am

Sihaya

Veteran

I like the edginess of these ones Angie. However, I think I’ll stil pass. Some remind me too much of blankets. Some look pretty but feel overwhelming for my frame and also not exactly in line with my crisp, classic style.

October 19, 2011 at 5:11 am

nancylee

Veteran

You had me at “earthy, bohemian, and casual.” I LOVE this look and find it far more appealing than the animal print trend. It’s bold and unique and powerful. That black and white skirt is amazing and so appealing to my eye. I own an aztec print scarf and a bold aztec patterned cardigan. I feel strong and beautiful when I wear them. LOVE!

October 19, 2011 at 5:16 am

Phoebe

Veteran

Waaaay too earthy, casual and boho for me.

October 19, 2011 at 5:39 am

Diana

Veteran

I’m not crazy about tribal prints. I do not like earthy colors, nor do I prefer strong geometric prints (I love strong prints but I prefer them to be organic – curved lines, not too regular). That said, I would totally wear that gorgeous black and white skirt (but then again I feel that this is the least traditionally “tribal” print of the bunch.)

Just curious, Angie – what is your take on the recent controversy surrounding certain stores and their perceived appropriation of native or tribal prints/themes for fashion?

October 19, 2011 at 5:52 am

Mel

I really love reading your blog for trends and good shopping links but was surprised that you posted this without any mention of controversy surrounding the use of these designs:

http://stream.aljazeera.com/st.....n-bloggers

Fashion is wonderful but it occurs in a social and historical context.

October 19, 2011 at 5:56 am

Lisa

Veteran

I’m not a fan of this trend for myself. I would tire of the prints, which are often bold and large in size, quite fast. I do like this look on others, because it is a refreshing change from dots, stripes, animal print and solids. But I’ll stay as an observer for this one.

October 19, 2011 at 6:00 am

Clover

The patterns in items 1,2 and 5 are riffs on classic Western style/Pendleton patterns that have been around for ages. They have always been in fashion for the folks who take their Western Wear seriously as part of their country lifestyle. For those of us not hopping on our horses for a ride on the range urbanizing the looks as Angie describes is key.

October 19, 2011 at 6:39 am

ruthe

Active Member

What April said.

October 19, 2011 at 6:39 am

Scarlet

Veteran

I can admire this look on others, but mostly it’s just not for me. Although…the second, third, and fourth look you show here really appeal to me, so I guess there is a way to bend this look in different directions. I think the slouchy boots in the third one really add a lot to my eye.

October 19, 2011 at 6:39 am

Nakidra

Veteran

I do like some of the pieces, but it’s really not my style. I do admire the look on others.

October 19, 2011 at 6:45 am

Sylvia

(website)

Active Member

Not really my cup of tea either, although I like the black and white skirt. I also like the top left photo but that would be a risky purchase as I would probably to quickly tire of it….

October 19, 2011 at 7:01 am

Joy

Veteran

I like it in small doses, especially as a skirt. I’d love to have the Matthew Williamson red blanket skirt in a midi pencil style.

October 19, 2011 at 7:04 am

Angela

Not for me at all

October 19, 2011 at 7:05 am

Debbie

Veteran

I love the black and white skirt. That’s not a surprise I’m sure. This is probably the only way I would wear it.

October 19, 2011 at 7:10 am

Meredith

Active Member

As with so many things, I think it’s all about degrees. The very bold prints remind of what skiiers used to wear when visiting Colorado in the ’80s. Not so fab. The more understand print that the model is wearing on the dock is quite cute.

October 19, 2011 at 7:12 am

Carole

Veteran

I’m not a fan, but the pattern in a skirt wouldn’t be too overwhelming. Seems like a pattern you would grow tired of quickly.

October 19, 2011 at 7:20 am

Sveta

(website)

Veteran

I am not big fan of these prints either -neither for fashion or for home decor (just came back from travelling in Navajo country and while their blankets were of good quality these particular prints did not resonate with my taste and none wanted to come home with me :0)
Saying that if I ever see a piece which I like I would give it a try…

October 19, 2011 at 7:21 am

Sowmya

Active Member

I absolutely love any thing with a tribal / folksy touch. I’m very comfortable wearing big prints and bold colours so this is right up my alley. Also I guess given my Indian roots, we have a lot of ethnic designs adapted into western styles of clothing like skirts and blouses.

October 19, 2011 at 7:44 am

Vicki

(website)

Veteran

I love it on these women, but I think I’ll keep it out of my closet as it may only be a one-hit wonder!

October 19, 2011 at 7:47 am

taylor

Veteran

I love the b/w skirt, but as far as this trend…. I am not a fan, for all the reasons you mentioned…way too much going on!
I have seen others wear this with such style…it seems to suit some women:)

October 19, 2011 at 7:50 am

Antje

Veteran

While I like some of the individual pieces above, I’m not a fan of tribal inspired clothing myself. I don’t have much of a boho/earthy style persona, and I also feel a tad weird about the appropriation issue Diana alluded to above. I’ll never say never and might wear something like the pieces above (only if very modern, very sleek) but I don’t see myself embracing it in any big way.

October 19, 2011 at 8:11 am

KateR

Active Member

Coincidentally, take a look at today’s offering on thesartorialist!
http://www.thesartorialist.com.....gan-paris/ How one frenchwoman “does” it.

October 19, 2011 at 8:16 am

Chrizzle

Active Member

I love this look and think it suits me, though I wear it only sparingly. I especially like patterns that are reminiscent of more than one culture, when a so-called “Aztec” or “Navajo” pattern (I put them in quotes, because many of the patterns used in fashion and home decor aren’t authentic) remind me of African or Middle Eastern designs.

Someone asked about the controversy in which the Navajo Nation, which has trademarked their name and licensed some of their traditional designs for use by approved designers, is suing Urban Outfitters for appropriating their name for a line of clothing and other items that they find offensive or inappropriate. I side with the Navajo Nation on this one. It’s one thing to admire, be inspired by, and legally buy the artifacts of another culture, but it’s a completely different thing to use their trademarked name on inappropriate items such as hip flasks without permission. I like this article that gives an overview of the issue from a Native American perspective: http://indiancountrytodaymedia.....vajo-case/

October 19, 2011 at 8:54 am

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Diana and Mel, I must admit I didn’t connect this topic with the insensitive misappropriation of culture when I was writing the post. Personally, I don’t think that taking inspiration from patterns crosses that line, but I encourage people to listen to the following segment (from the article that Mel links to), which discusses the issue at some length.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f.....PyPLmmtcig

October 19, 2011 at 9:05 am

rachylou

Veteran

I think of the tribal look as the Urban Outfitter look. South Western Artist Town. Geology Students On Location. Don’t quite think of it as bohemian. Maybe earth mother hippy.

I appreciate it. I don’t go any place it would make sense. It’s only me when it gets flashier and stretches toward deco abstraction.

October 19, 2011 at 9:14 am

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

I like it, a lot. But I don’t consider myself boho or earthy at all.

October 19, 2011 at 9:17 am

bella

(website)

Veteran

I saw this post this morning and was going to mention the same controversy but I see that Mel beat me to it. I think fashion should thread a bit more carefully when it comes to appropriations of certain cultural items/objects/designs.

October 19, 2011 at 9:18 am

mamark

Active Member

This look does not appeal to me, despite the fact that I actually have significant Native American heritage.

I think women who love native patterns tend to over-do them. I appreciate your advice about moderation. I used to work with a woman we called “Navajo Patty.” She wore Navajo patterns every day, all over. Even her eyeglasses had navajo patterned frames. And of course she piled on the turquoise jewelry. I think if she had worn just one of these pieces at at time they would have been stunning, but all together she looked like a caricature. And the Native American in me was, all, “Really, white man?”

October 19, 2011 at 9:48 am

Laura

(website)

Veteran

Like it! I think the patterns are beautiful, and I love the vibrant colors. I’m not running out to buy anything, but maybe the right piece will cross my path.

October 19, 2011 at 10:06 am

nancylee

Veteran

Wow. Surprised by all the negative reactions! I really believe ethnic-inspired patterns aren’t meant to insult the heritage of any people or ethnicity. On the contrary, I think they are meant to be complimentary….if anything.

I’m no expert, but it seems to me that most patterns have some place of “origin.” I have a significant Scottish heritage, and the tartan plaid pattern–a hugely popular fashion pattern–comes from Scotland. It doesn’t offend me at all that wide swaths of the population wear it. It’s just part of the interesting mix of fashion that draws from all corners of the world.

Of course, moderation in all things is a good thing to keep in mind.

October 19, 2011 at 10:12 am

nancylee

Veteran

Just to clarify: I’m defending the use of ethnic “patterns” only, not the appropriation of the full-on native dress of an ethnic group or tribe.

October 19, 2011 at 10:22 am

Chrizzle

Active Member

Nancylee, I get what you’re saying about tartan patterns (I have recent Scots ancestry too: my grandfather was from Nairn, Scotland and one of my uncles occasionally wears Grandfather’s dress kilt). But there are issues of privilege, disrespect and cultural appropriation that just aren’t present with a tartan print skirt. Here’s the difference, as explained by Susan Scadafi, a professor at Fordham Law:

“It’s an issue when you have indigenous peoples…who have been subject to actual genocide, and then you come back around with what some people characterize as cultural genocide. The pillaging of land, the pillaging of personal property, followed by the pillaging of what could be considered intellectual property. It’s something that occurs against a background of a lot of other offensive actions.”

Not to mention that the Navajo Nation specifically trademarked their name and license their traditional designs to prevent just what Urban Outfitters did. Quite apart from the cultural appropriation issue, they crossed a legal line. I think there are good and not-so-good ways to use or market items inspired by the cultures of indigenous peoples around the world.

October 19, 2011 at 10:29 am

Lori

Veteran

Not my style, but I certainly can appreciate it on others.

October 19, 2011 at 10:30 am

Nebraskim

I luv the L.A.M.B. intarsia knit tunic. I would wear this trend but in small doses. Does anyone besides me find those models to be a bit on the “terrifyingly skinny” side. I know they are runway models but those ladies are scary to me. Their legs are like toothpicks. And they kind of send the message, “anyone bigger than a coat hanger will look like a billboard in this print.” Maybe I’m overly sensitive.

October 19, 2011 at 10:35 am

HelenInCanada

Veteran

Love the shawl cardi and the black and white skirt. Just beautiful patterns!

October 19, 2011 at 10:42 am

Kari

Veteran

I have mixed feelings about this trend.

On the one hand, aesthetically it’s not my thing. I’m not boho or casual, and I am generally into more geometric or floral/less artsy prints.
But I also do like the pattern on that black & white skirt. And the bolder “tribal” prints remind me, in a good way, of my late grandmother and also my aunt & uncle, both of whom loved “world art” and have heaviily featured African, Native American, and South American art as part of their home decor. (A lot of my grandmother’s
For that reason I see the prints as being better suited to decorative art, but I’m sure that’s partly because that’s how I am used to seeing them.

October 19, 2011 at 10:48 am

nancylee

Veteran

I hear what you’re saying, Chrizzle. Agreed: there are good and not-so-good ways to market cultural items.

October 19, 2011 at 10:48 am

clearlyclaire

I live in the American southwest, and while I’m too classic to go “full-on” with any ot the items shown, I have bought turquoise bracelets and sterling silver jewelry at local craft fairs, etc. I love the soft colors in the textiles, and I would totally wear a scarf with a Native American *inspired* (not neccessarily literal) pattern if I found one without too many warm colors in it. Just a touch would be enough for me.

October 19, 2011 at 11:34 am

CocoLion

(website)

Veteran

Thanks for the post Angie! I love this look!. I dipped my toe in the water with this look in the summer via knit tops. And yesterday I purchased a sweater with a tribal pattern. It almost looks like a kilim rug. It has shades of cream, mustard and black. It is really big though! I can’t wait to show it for YLF to approve Yay or Nay.
http://www1.macys.com/catalog/.....Type=PDPZ1

I didn’t think about needing to go dressy or polished with this look yet, but so far my instinct is to keep the rest of the outfit very simple due to the bold pattern aspect of the look.

October 19, 2011 at 11:38 am

CocoLion

(website)

Veteran

There was a thread a few months ago that discussed culture appropriation:
http://youlookfab.com/welookfa.....ropriation

And good for the Navajo Nation for protecting their images the way Disney protects theirs! I think this is at the core of the issue. Most uses of ethnic prints are textile design only, not even the fabrics are the same and the designs are usually modern. But, appropriating textile prints is a little like rockers appropriating blues songs and not paying the song writers. Wrong! Although fashion is such a tricky area, with designs not being copyright protected (although textile designs are).

October 19, 2011 at 11:54 am

cjh

(website)

Veteran

Not to inflame anyone on the issue, but this issue can be so highly personal that I don’t think anyone can delineate which ethnic patterns are a “sacred heritage” that shouldn’t be messed with or appropriated by other peoples or fashion itself, and which ones are just so open to possession by anyone. In my book, design is design, and over the centuries, different peoples and cultures have come to be associated with those designs that they particularly love and find meaning in. However, that doesn’t mean a person of another culture won’t find a foreign design beautiful and want to embrace it.

Please take no offense, but I find it hard to make my point without making some specific examples. For instance: what if someone wears a McNeil tartan (tartan being portrayed above as universally owned, but really some are quite possessive you may find), but they really are of African American ethnic heritage? Not unlikely that her name is really McNeil. Did that come from an ancestor’s slave status? Or was that person married or born into the McNeil family in Scotland, or somewhere else in the world – there are millions? Should I, as a McNeil, find that offensive? What if it’s my thoroughly German father-in-law wearing my tartan? (Ha – he isn’t into fashion – what am I thinking?)

Or take the Hawaiian shirt – we all have had one of those in our lives, haven’t we? I am not Hawaiian or any sort of Pacific Islander – heck, I’ve never even traveled west of the Tetons or east of Berlin!

Do you have bedding with Moroccan patterns? Ikat designs? Or plates with Greek key patterns? A sweater with Nordic motifs or silver buttons? What about paisley – do you know where that comes from? How about Damask linens, or tapestry drapes with Jacobian flowers?

See, it’s just all beautiful and we have to let the beauty loose – so everyone can enjoy it and expound on it and life is enriched by the beauty of the world.

(climbing.down.off.soapbox)

October 19, 2011 at 12:00 pm

Veteran

I’m looking to add a simple tribal necklace…not too flashy or statement-y.

October 19, 2011 at 12:05 pm

Sara L.

Veteran

I’ll pass on this trend. I live in the Southwest and I see these patterns everywhere everyday. For that reason I don’t find them new or inspiring.

October 19, 2011 at 12:22 pm

Kate

I love this trend. At various times over the past 30 years I’ve worn many items of clothes with designs inspired by different cultures, particularly middle eastern and African, so I’m always glad to see these types of patterns resurface.

October 19, 2011 at 12:49 pm

Fruitful

Veteran

What Chrizzie said.

Plus, I’d look ‘orrible in these

October 19, 2011 at 1:03 pm

MsMary

Veteran

Team Chrizzie. In my view, sometimes design isn’t just design. Sometimes it’s the last remnant of a culture that’s been systematically destroyed or oppressed by the majority culture, and in my view under those circumstances it can be disrespectful in the extreme for the majority culture to appropriate it. Especially when the design may have important cultural or religious overtones to the original wearers, which are completely lost on the usurpers.

October 19, 2011 at 1:32 pm

goldenpig

(website)

Veteran

Great points, cjh. I love patterns so I certainly wear lots of different styles including plaid, damask, Asian-inspired, etc. etc. I’m not so much into the Navajo print but I might try something subtle. I agree that patterns are beautiful and are something to share across cultures.

But I do think you can take it too far. I agree that Urban Outfitters seems to be culturally insensitive. I think Navajo hip flasks and panties cross the line. And the Ambercrombie & Fitch line of Asian caricature t-shirts was similarly insensitive:
http://www.snopes.com/racial/business/tshirts.asp

October 19, 2011 at 1:40 pm

morethanbeige

Veteran

I really like the pics you posted, Angie. I think the L.A.M.B. dress is so beautiful. I would really be careful with this trend for myself, because I think it would be so easy to get swallowed up by a big, bold print.

I also have appreciated reading others’ posts about the cultural insensitivity and feel somewhat educated. Thank you for that.

October 19, 2011 at 2:07 pm

Inge

(website)

Moderator

I’m not the hugest fan of this type of pattern in earthy colours, but to my eye it starts to look very different in black & white, and I absolutely love your scarf in those bright colours. I guess it’s similar to how I feel about animal print: brighter and unexpected colour combinations have my preference:-)

October 19, 2011 at 3:17 pm

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

This looks like the section of Forever 21 I avoid.

October 19, 2011 at 3:24 pm

Briar

Active Member

Though the silhouettes are new and contemporary, tribal patterns have long had a cross over with western wear in the American Southwest aka “southwest dressing”. I like it at home, but would not feel comfortable wearing it out of the region.

October 19, 2011 at 5:10 pm

lisa999

Member

I like it. The pieces look good with something slim on the bottom and edgy booties. I wouldn’t go overboard with all out Navaho, but some of the pieces shown in your pics are fairly tame. You have to have the body and height for it though.

October 19, 2011 at 7:03 pm

Erin

Veteran

Not really for me but done well on someone else I may change my mind.

October 19, 2011 at 7:03 pm

Refugee

Veteran

Overall, not my cup of tea. But I’ll be on the lookout for ‘that one piece’ within this trend that really speaks to me.

October 19, 2011 at 7:22 pm

Lee

(website)

I like the look. I really like the Intarsia sweater outfit. HOWEVER that single outfit purchased retail would cost well over $500. I could buy 1/4 of an organic, grassfed side of beef, or a house payment, or the initial deposit on my child’s braces for that kind of money. Do real people with real families really spend that much on one casual outfit?

October 19, 2011 at 7:48 pm

Marley

Veteran

Not for me. To begin with, its just not my style – I think I would feel like I was being swallowed up in the prints and the colors. Also, having been the beneficiary of genuine hand made/crafted jewlery, articles of clothing, decorative items, etc. from Native American friends – the “tribal trend” in today’s style just looks fake to me. If I’m going to dress in this style, I will pull out something from my closet that is the real deal. In addition, this “tribal trend” just seems so disrespectful – like we are romanticising a minority group of people whose culture was systematically destroyed by the majority. Not for me.

October 19, 2011 at 9:39 pm

san

Veteran

MaryK you said it well. My best friend since we were 9 yrs old is Native American and I am very intuned and sensitive to this subject.
Pendleton designs are not Native American designs.

October 20, 2011 at 10:12 pm

Bianca

Veteran

This is taking the look a bit too far. I’m all for faux fur and such, but the looks don’t feel like they are for me! Perhaps incorporating one item at a time!

October 23, 2011 at 9:29 am

Hawk V

Member

New member here and I’m late to the conversation, but since tribal print is still around, it’s still worth pondering about.

I’m very conflicted about this trend. On an aesthetic level, I love it. I’m a Canadian woman of colour that gravitates towards “ethnic” prints and “boho” accessories. But I don’t see him as boho or hippie, I just see them as items that remind me of my home country (the Philippines) because I’m a member of the diaspora, and I can’t help but romanticize it a bit when I visit. When I visit my home country, why would I pick up Banana Republic tote bag when there’s a locally made alternative that’s sturdy, classy, and made out of woven tree-bark?

Since I already gravitate towards an “ethnic” aesthetic, and it’s difficult to come by unless I visit, I end up shopping for other “ethnic” aesthetics while I’m in Canada.

But on the hand, cultural appropriation is a serious problem. There is a fine line between cultural appropriation versus cultural propogation. It’s cultural propogation if the “ethnic” accessory/print/item of clothing is sold by members of that community to outsiders, and outsiders treat it with respect.

Cultural appropriation: If a white man picks up a sarong in Thailand, it would be horrendous for him to wear it in disrespectful drag, especially if he styles it the way a man would (I think respectful drag is possible, but risky). The Urban Outfitters underwear falls under this category (talk about racist and sexist fetishization all at once!). Not to mention how some of these are styled in the fashion mags. I’m so sick of scantily clad skinny white women wearing headdresses. That’s not for them to wear, they’re wearing it wrong, and they’re actively disrespecting the culture.

Cultural propogation: If you buy an earring made by a Native American seller, and wear it in a dressy way. If you wear a printed dress with an “ethnic” print that is more general to a country rather than to an indigenous group, when it’s culturally public domain. When Quentin Tarantino wore a Barong Tagalog to the Golden Globes. He didn’t pick the right one (bad colour for his skin tone, not the best fit, and ugh his trousers were terrible), but he bought it from the Philippines and he wore it in a context-appropriate situation–something formal. If he wore it in the beach with swimming trunks, then it would be *not* appropriate and a huge negative.

So when is it propogation versus appropriation? I think it depends on these elements:
(1) Consent – What is the origin of this print/design/etc, does the community consent for these to be sold to outsiders? E.g. Native Americans have no problem with non-Native Americans wearing jewelry that are being sold to them. But headdresses are completely off the table.
(2) Respect and Appropriateness – Is it being worn in a culturally appropriate way? Are you being respectful of the culture?
(3) Who makes money off it? – I admit that if there’s something that’s “tribal” at Zara, I’ll buy it if it’s “public domain” enough. But there is something to be said for buying certain fashions from a legit source. E.g. African prints from an African designer instead of a fast fashion place or a European designer who has no real cultural connection whatever they’re being “inspired” from. The rest of the world isn’t passive fauna for the Western fashion world to exploit from. There are designers all over the world and at home, so why not support them if they’re making beautiful things too?

February 23, 2012 at 1:42 pm

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