From Mad Men to Casualization

taylor

Veteran

I so agree with you!!

All dressed up and nowhere to go…story of my life even when I am in denim It is dressed up..just who I am.

November 10, 2010 at 2:24 pm

cloud9

Veteran

i think the non-suit, or at least shirt/tie/jacket for office started only the last 20 years!

I really don’t get it.. what’s good/sexy/mature about having big fat words stamped across your jogging/yoga pants, which was all the rave of the casual teen & mom-wear a few years back?

with the lazy/casual dress come with the lazy/casual attitude in many people (not all, but a lot!) We are definitely affected by our environment.

November 10, 2010 at 2:32 pm

Inge

I’ve really no idea what happened;-) But I’m with you on this one all the way, and personally I always feel better and more confident in a “dressier” outfit.

P.S. confession: I still haven’t seen a single episode of Mad Men. I think I need to rent the DVD’s asap and do a MM marathon!-)

November 10, 2010 at 2:39 pm

Cricket

Even photos of everyday clothes worn by my mom and her mom from the 60s are amazing compared to today’s stuff … the day dresses and cute blouses with skirts or pants. I think part of the good look is fine tailoring. My mom sewed many of her own clothes, so things were made to fit right.

November 10, 2010 at 2:43 pm

Maria

And I am totally (agreeing) with yout too!!! A “Mad Man” is just a reminder of a “good old times” (hmmm, and again… my Grandmother’s and my Mother’s elegance – until this day – comes to mind). As Taylor said… I DO dress up no matter what… going out or not, expecting people to see me or not… even whilst wearing the jeans around the house, a nice top/jersey and – quite often – a lovely scarf is a “must be” (plus my hair nicely done – not overdone though – plus a touch of makeup) and it is not really for anyone but for me… just to like what I see in the mirror… The biggest compliments come from my husband quite regularly… that I alway look “great” (his words) and “so well put together”… Well, thank you Mum and Grandmother for (always) saying that “you never know who is going to knock on your door” and that “you should always look as you are ready to face the outside world”. Interesting trivia – I’ve never owed a single pair of sweatpants or a “hoodie” nor a pair of a typical, “regular” white running shoes nor rubber flip-flops (I have a couple of pairs of a leather Italian ones though) because I think all these things can be easily replaced with something equally functional and yet elegant and tasteful… I just believe that it takes as much time and effort to put on something nice as it takes to do the “sloppy”outfit… But then it might be just me…

November 10, 2010 at 2:48 pm

Michelle

(website)

Veteran

Could not agree more, Angie! I enjoy having casual options, and am in fact sporting one today in the form of my new sweater dress and scarf, but I wouldn’t have felt right leaving the house without pearl earrings, heeled boots, subtle makeup and perfume to make me feel fully polished.
That said, I’ve had great fun of late building somewhat dressier outfits around casual foundations. I’m not terribly comfortable eschewing the environmental norm, so I would be highly unlikely to trot out my fanciest attire for the office, but I love dressing up smart jeans with a silky top that has dressier details and adding jewelry that further establishes the vibe I’m going for. . To me, the freedom for experimentation is the silver lining in the lowered fashion standards.
My boyfriend, incidentally, would agree with you 100 per cent as well. He wears a shirt and tie to work every single day, making him one of two people in his office to do so. We’re huge Mad Men fans and he ogles Don’s wardrobe at every turn (except skinny ties, he prefers today’s width).

November 10, 2010 at 2:49 pm

Srujana

Veteran

Can’t help thinking that the casual-ness of today’s dress code has seeped into every nuance of our lives to the extent that it, in part, causes the shopping rage cited in the past blog article. I can’t imagine some of those scenarios playing out 50 years ago…thoug its hard enough to believe they were current real life stories.

I’m with you completely on this. I’ve only caught glimpses of the show, but I know their style quotient is high and I love getting dressed up/seeing others dressed up. I just carry myself better when I am…

November 10, 2010 at 3:00 pm

cathy

I totally agree. The stylist from Mad Men has a new book out, and the whole craze has definitely swept the make up & hair industry. I think about it a lot and have since I first starting watching: why are we all wearing jeans and casual stuff instead of zip up dresses? I feel terrible about not dressing up more. I’m especially small boned and even with the variety of XS sizes available I feel I can look frumpy or not as put together as I’d like if I don’t make an effort. The casualness works well but is also a drawback. If most of my wardrobe had good seams and darts etc, ie, was more fitted, I think I might feel different about my size. I might be happier.

November 10, 2010 at 3:03 pm

Laura

(website)

Veteran

I wore a sheath dress with a bf cardigan and flat boots to meet a potential job contact for breakfast. He showed up in jeans and a turtleneck. When we were leaving, he asked why I was so dressed up. I said, “I’m dressed up … for life.”

Have never seen Mad Men! Does anyone have a recommendation on where to start – was there one season that was better than the others?

November 10, 2010 at 3:07 pm

Beth

Veteran

Oh dear. I’m in a mood tonight, so take this with a grain of salt (and obviously I’m generalizing):

We are a lazy and sloppy culture. We’re losing our sense of community as we’re beginning to value the culture of self over everything else. We’ve forgotten that clothing speaks as loudly as words and that respect can be telegraphed simply by what we’re wearing. It’s the same reason thank you notes are rare and people believe that jury duty calls for flipflops and a torn t-shirt.

November 10, 2010 at 3:13 pm

LegacyOfPearl

(website)

You’re singing my heart out!

November 10, 2010 at 3:43 pm

Lena

Laura, I think one needs to start with season 1. There’s a great deal of character development going on. I’d hate for you to miss Peggy’s storyline, for example.

Angie, excellent question, and I’d love to read everybody’s thoughts on this. I appreciate having options, from casual to dressed up, but yes, the sloppy factor and lack of effort is very disheartening.

November 10, 2010 at 3:53 pm

Sveta

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Veteran

Actually I like that dress code is more relaxed than 50 years ago. Wouldn`t you need to wear a hat outside of the house even if you look awful in hats? Also I think it is pretty tiring for men to wear suits every day. So I don`t think that having more relaxed dress code is a bad thing.
However the problem is it went too far in casualization! I think that smart casual should be the norm for everyday life (this is what I prefer anyway :-)) but instead it is sloppy casual! B-r-r-r!

November 10, 2010 at 3:55 pm

mamark

I’m with you, sister. I don’t agree with how women were treated in the Mad Men days, but I sure wish we all had the decency to dress a little better. I can’t stand what business casual has done to my workplace and I can’t stand what wearing pajamas in public has done to the outside world.

November 10, 2010 at 4:08 pm

Nicole

I think one reason things have changed is that the Mad Men style wardrobe can be uncomfortable and constricting for women. There’s actually one scene at the end of one of the episodes that shows women undressing at the end of their day, laboriously unpeeling layers of tight undergarments. Joan is shown sitting on her bed rubbing at a big red raw mark on her shoulder from her bra (I don’t think it was makeup, I saw an interview with the costume designer where she was talking about experimenting with pieces of moleskin to protect the actresses because they were all getting chafed by their clothing, this was an ongoing struggle on set).

I’m all for making a conscious choice to dress up because it’s enjoyable and makes you feel comfortable in your own skin. Mad Men might be pure eye candy from the vantage point of the couch but it’s also a window into a world where if you were a square peg you were expected to fit yourself into a round hole no matter how much it hurt.

November 10, 2010 at 4:13 pm

shana

Veteran

I’m thankful for all the technology and improvements that have some into the clothing industry. I remember my MIL telling me about sewing her own dresses back in the 50’s – of course since all the girls had to study home economics, they all knew how to sew! I would be wearing bed sheets if I had to sew my own clothes: As lovely as those clothes are, without modern fabrication, I bet alot of those clothes were stiff and uncomfortable and requires LOTS of ironing. Anyway, I’m with Sveta – I wish more people would dress contemporary smart casual instead of sloppy casual but I don’t think i’d necessarily want to revisit the era of pretty dresses paired with heels and pantyhose and the requisite girdle( on a DAILY basis) were de rigueur.

November 10, 2010 at 4:18 pm

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Nicole, I mentioned the all important “comfort” factor in my post. It’s the main reason for casualization – especially in America. In my experiences, people on the whole are dressier in Asia and Europe. Don’t quite know how that happened. More formal societal norms I guess.

Beth, I like your mood tonight!

I also remember Joan rubbing the red mark on her shoulder. Bras back then were sans elastic and THAT must have been awful. But there is no excuse today

Sveta and Shana, I love my jeans. LOVE them. But casualization has become extreme. You’ll probably find that if you did a world poll – most women prefer to wear trousers over dresses and skirts.

Cricket, tailoring back in the 50’s and 60’s was fabulous. But the lack of T-shirt material was a style blessing too

So dressing got *really* casual back in the 70’s. Dressiness was somewhat revived in the 80’s – and then things went haywire. We live in a casual world and I’m sobbing!

Laura, you must start from the beginning as Lena suggests.

November 10, 2010 at 4:25 pm

tracina

HaaaaaHaaaaa, lol.
When I got to the bottom of the comments there was an ad for Uggs. I’ve never seen Mad men and I do love jeans but I’m not crazy for sloppy. Problem is I don’t have any reason to dress up and my job is dirty and I often run errands in my very sloppy work clothes. I get so tired of being a mess I dress up to lounge around my house.

I also know a teacher that says when the kids are dressed up—i.e. for school pics, they also behave better.

November 10, 2010 at 4:29 pm

Teri

Long time reader, first time commenter: I agree! Go to haveacuteday.blogspot.com and start reading from the first post. Their philosophy is to look your best, you will feel better, your day will go better, etc. etc. I’ve begun wearing dresses to work everyday but Fridays. I always get asked “Why are you so dressed up?” Rather than going into how I’m on a bit of a crusade for women, I just say because it makes me happy!

November 10, 2010 at 4:31 pm

Kristine

Veteran

I’d have to guess the change came when women started routinely working outside the home after World War II. There was no one to iron the clothing and easy care slid into sloppy. It’s probably also due to getting to know our neighbors less, we no longer know most of the people we see on the street so there’s a sense of anonymity. It’s a fascinating subject. The whole idea of how a society agrees on what’s acceptable or isn’t is very interesting.

November 10, 2010 at 4:32 pm

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Good for you, Teri!

Kristine, that’s interesting. The 50’s and 60’s were also after WW2 though.

November 10, 2010 at 4:45 pm

Kari

Veteran

Laura, definitely start at the beginning of Mad Men. If you have OnDemand on your TV, often during the off-season they will run entire seasons of Mad Men. (Though you might find yourself wanting to own the whole series like I have!)

I often feel like I was born in the wrong era, and Mad Men kind of cemented it. When I “discovered” the show I was in between jobs and had been struggling with feeling too dressy at my previous casual work environment. After I watched the show, I decided that I no longer cared and would “dress up” when I felt like it.

(I do appreciate that we CAN dress smart casually and with much more comfortable clothes than what was available in the ’60s, though. The stockings with garters sound like a complete pain, let alone the bullet bras.)

The other day, while planning for a future Disneyland trip, I stumbled across this collection of photos of Disneyland guests in the ’50s. My mom, who lived in southern California during that time, also has photos of her and her parents dressing up to visit the park. Now it’s about the most ultra-casual dress code there is.

I’m also thinking back to a Mad Men season 1 episode showing Betty dressed to the nines – lipstick, pearls, and hair set – just to run to the grocery store. Then I compare that to my grocery shopping trip last night, where I was literally surrounded by women in baggy sweat pants and flip flops, except for one woman in a very cute smart casual outfit with sleek boots and a wool coat.

I’m not sure I’d want to feel like I have to be that glam ALL the time – I’m just not polished enough to pull it off – but I do wish we had some balance.

November 10, 2010 at 5:03 pm

Dusty

(website)

Active Member

You know, I think there’s a lot of things that go into it. The “grunge” trend of the 90’s didn’t do us any favors and I’d dare guess that Britney Spears isn’t helping much either, but I don’t think clothing trends is where the issue is. For one thing, we’ve become a very “entitled” culture – everything is about the self and “everyone” (of course not everyone, but large part of society) thinks that they should be given everything they want just for being. So, of course, there’s no need to dress up for a job interview or anything like that because there should be no need to impress anyone because “I deserve it.”

The comfort thing is a very definite factor, as is the fact that life is just at a much faster pace now than it was in the 50’s. Back then, the average household had one income, which meant the wife was available to keep the house clean and the clothes all freshly pressed, trips into “town” were probably more like once a week and the children likely only had one after school activity, whereas the stay at home mom in today’s world is more the exception than the norm, and even they spend almost as much time in their cars as in their homes and children are often heavily scheduled after school. Life is more hectic today and many people choose to let appearance be the thing they let go when they can’t keep up.

I think, also, that the fact that so few people sew at home makes a big difference. Off-the-rack clothing is made to fit “ideal” bodies (not necessarily just the size, but the proportions) and it’s really hard to find things that fit well (especially without alterations), but when every woman sewed, they could alter everything themselves or custom make their clothing and everything just looks better when it fits well. I’d be willing to bet that a large number of the population doesn’t even know that having clothing altered is even an option.

November 10, 2010 at 5:04 pm

Lynette

Amen, Sister! No matter how great any of today’s style icons are, somehow they never really compare with the style icons of yesteryear. I also love to watch reruns of “I Dream of Jeannie” just to see her adorable outfits. I love Laura’s quote – “I’m dressed up for life!” I’ll have to remember that one. Do you think we will ever return to a more dressy style, or are we doomed to perpetual casualness?

November 10, 2010 at 5:06 pm

Kari

Veteran

P.S. Angie, have you watched the commentary on any of the episodes? Janie Bryant, Mad Men’s costume designer, is occasionally a commentator, and it’s fun to hear her talk about her wardrobe choices for different signature scenes/outfits.

November 10, 2010 at 5:06 pm

SusanH

I’m not a sociologist, but if I had to take a stab at this I’d say that dress codes have always been used to enforce class distinctions, and in our modern American society, which likes to think of itself as treating everyone equally (even when it doesn’t), it’s inevitable that fashion standards will deteriorate because we no longer value the concept that some people are “better” and therefore need to dress better.

Of course, I’d love to have a culture that’s democratic and egalitarian AND where people learn to dress nicely, but I’m skeptical that that will ever happen!

November 10, 2010 at 5:08 pm

stringy

Veteran

I do think people tend to react to extremes – the discomfort and restriction of early 20th century clothes (and societal expectations) led to rebellion in the 2nd half of the century. Who knows? Maybe our children will react to the extreme casualness around them and rebel against trackpants with logos across their butts!

The difference between dress style in America, Europe and Asia probably has something to do with it too – the extreme individualism of the US isn’t as prevalent in other places. Australia has always been a casual place, due to the heat and I think because we were settled by people who were trying to get away from restriction and authority of their homelands. Even our 50s styles weren’t as full-on as in the US and England.

November 10, 2010 at 5:54 pm

Lisa

Veteran

I wholeheartedly agree. I don’t mind that we no longer have to wear suits to work everyday but the extent of casual wear I see on a regular basis in all environments is depressing. After all even if the person doesn’t care how they look to themselves, I still have to look at them!

November 10, 2010 at 6:01 pm

Maya

Veteran

I don’t watch this show or really any popular television, but I do read about it frequently on other style blogs (and this one too), so I’m very familiar with the characters, actors, and wardrobes despite having seen very little of the show and not particularly liking what I did see.

I’m not going to lie: While I do think we have gotten overly sloppy and casual, I would never want to go back to those days.

There is definitely a lot of romanticism to those looks and the philosophies they embody. I can see how the idea of having fewer, impeccably tailored, quality pieces is appealing. Certainly I can understand why it is more appealing to see people turned out well instead of looking like bums.

But there is also something appealing about easy modern sportswear. I love that we now have a range of appropriate, stylish dress codes for a variety of situations, budgets, and lifestyles. To me that makes it even MORE unacceptable for people to be slovenly. The issues of budget and comfort are no longer there.

Our problem isn’t that we have gotten more casual. I think that’s good. We just have unfortunately swung too far in the casual direction and we really need to recenter ourselves. While the 70’s is not my favorite style decade, I think more than any other decade, it did the best job of striking a balance among a range of dress codes. Obviously I’m speaking from the perspective of American culture only. I think in much of Europe and Asia, that balance is still there.

The 80’s contributed a lot of fun and edgy looks but I do think that a lot of the sloppy looks we see today have their roots there. Visible socks, oversized tshirts, etc. were all popularized then.

In spite of the pitfalls, I’m glad to see fashion being more democratic. If you want, you can still have a small, high quality, dressy 50’s-esque wardrobe. But there are other options too, and that can’t be a bad thing.

November 10, 2010 at 6:09 pm

Vani

Veteran

I couldn’t have said it better Angie!

When I think about it, growing up in India, before all the global embracing of jeans and tees, the only time I would be in sloppy gear was at home. Even the most casual of clothing were dressy and appropriate in some manner. Salwar kameez in all styles, cuts and colors. Casual or dressy factored in the fabric and embellishment. Cotton saris and salwar kameez for casual dressing and silks, chiffons, beads and sequins for upping the dressiness. In the last 5 years seems like jeans+tee combo has pervaded all cultures and classes (western clothing was for the rich and educated at one point years ago). Makes you wonder.

November 10, 2010 at 6:14 pm

bj1111

Veteran

i like the latitude of styles brought on by the “casualization” of american dress. i think it mirrors the flattening of a hierarchical culture at large and broadening of women’s opportunities both personal and professional.

November 10, 2010 at 6:33 pm

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Kari, you would so fit into that era! Thanks for the tip about watching the commentary.

Dusty, that’s an interesting perspective.

Stringy, most Asian countries are very warm too – yet much more formal

Maya, my point is precisely that there are no dress codes anymore. How many places can you think of where there is a dress code? That’s what I’m sobbing about – not that we have the option to wear casual clothing.

November 10, 2010 at 6:35 pm

Kate

Veteran

Angie – right on.

Beth – you might be in a mood, but I think you’re right! (I’m also pretty cynical myself, so…) Our presentation of self is pathetic.

SusanH, I am a sociology PhD student, and you’re completely correct that fashion (and culture in general) is often a process of distinction. Historically (according to Simmel), fashion has started with the elites, and been watered down as it reaches the masses, which causes the elites to come out with new trends, and on and on. Even now, when celebs are sloppy they wear juicy sweatpants and expensive jeans that came pre-ripped.

However many sociologists also talk about distinction among the working class and middle class too – groups at every level of the social hierarchy embrace certain status items (be it caviar or spam) to create distinctions between themselves and members of other groups. I don’t think that dressing casually, or even sloppily is the majority’s way of saying we reject status differentials and are all equals, I think it’s a way to pitting working and middle class values against the upper class. The perception among many is that the upper class spends time and money caring about what they wear, and have nothing better to do than to waste money on fancy, frivolous things like fashion. Following this logic, “real Americans” have different priorities, and so they can’t afford to spend the copious time and money it takes to look good.

November 10, 2010 at 6:41 pm

Maya

Veteran

I don’t think there needs to be a set of formal dress codes, if that’s what you mean (i.e. signs that say “jacket required”–it will inevitably be an ill-fitting jacket most of the time anyway…).

It should just be common sense, which unfortunately most people don’t seem to have enough of :\. Those dress codes exist–but as a culture we have made it not only acceptable, but the norm, to ignore them.

November 10, 2010 at 6:46 pm

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Interesting perspective, Kate! I like that you commented with your Sociological hat on

Vani, another excellent and interesting point.

Maya, your argument doesn’t make sense to me. There shouldn’t be a dress code because people won’t interpret it stylishly – yet you say the dress codes exist but we ignore them???

November 10, 2010 at 6:54 pm

April

Veteran

For anyone who has yet to view Mad Men, let me just add that I found Season 1 extremely hard to watch. The way the women in the office were treated almost made me ill (and it’s not like I didn’t know what things used to be like — I was born not long after season 1 takes place.)

That said, I also hate the ultra-casual, low-rent vibe that has swallowed our culture whole. As I have said elsewhere, I feel we all have a responsibility to keep public spaces visually interesting, and those hoodies and Uggs just don’t do that.

November 10, 2010 at 6:59 pm

Maya

Veteran

I don’t think there is a need for formal, written dress codes. People should just have common sense. Common sense should dictate what the dress code is.

(I was being facetious about people not interpreting them stylishly.)

November 10, 2010 at 7:12 pm

bj1111

Veteran

april,

that’s precisely the reason why i don’t watch mad men. while my experiences haven’t been as extreme or blatant as those depicted on the show, i’ve had my share. don’t need to watch it.

November 10, 2010 at 7:20 pm

LAWhite

(website)

I just left a work environment where men routinely wore trousers with frayed hems and wrinkled, untucked shirts. Women wore faded t-shirts and stretched out knits, and the executive assistant was not above wearing sweatpants with a number “21” on the right butt cheek when her boss was out of the office. This was considered “business casual,” but I considered it pathetic.

November 10, 2010 at 7:57 pm

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Maya, people *should* just have common sense. But as you said earlier – there isn’t enough of that around. It’s a one big free for all. So I’m back to formalizing dress codes

April, it’s an eye opener for sure – as is all the booze before 10am, and the incessant smoking. But that was how it was. Glad things have moved along.

November 10, 2010 at 8:16 pm

Jessica

I think casual looks really good if you’re under 30 and thin. I would rather see a healthy teenage girl in jeans and a slightly embellished tshirt than anything they would wear in the MM era. I like the youthfulness that casual wear projects. When I see my grandmothers pictures as a teenager and young college student, I think all the tailored wear and pearls and perfect hair made her look like a china doll. I’m not much of a feminist but there is something to be said about how constantly dressed up women look like objects. I like that we’ve moved away from such a huge emphasis on dressy appearance. As much as I like fashion, I would never dress up as often as my predecessors did for the sake of my own self-confidence and sanity.

That said, it seems that once you hit a certain amount of physical wear and tear, dressing up helps you look better overall. Casual wear isn’t very good at masking the aging process.

November 10, 2010 at 8:26 pm

janeofwaves

I would love it if a more finished and thoughtful appearance suddenly became commonplace. Mostly because I think it’s respectful of others and of yourself. I dress for myself but I always consider how others would view my look.

I know we’re not supposed to judge a book by it’s cover but a nice layout and pretty picture will catch my eye and make me pick it up. With style, if I meet a well put together person I’m more interested in getting to know them (I may not come to like them but they caught my initial interest). Are we trying to say we don’t care about these initial judgements? Or is it just a trend of the 2000s and we’ll soon be past it?

Have I made any sense?

P.S. I had a really hard time getting through season one of Mad Men but I’m loving season 2.

November 10, 2010 at 8:29 pm

Sihaya

Veteran

I would love to see a more stylish, well dressed world. In fact, whenever I spend time in a city nearby, I love it because I am no longer almost always the best dressed woman in the room. There is lots of “competition”. And so the style quotient is sizzling. However, I would be totally against a dress code. While that might be fun for an occasional event or evening out, I value my autonomy far too much to have a dress code that’s dictated to me. I would rather have the occasional t-shirt and flip flop viewing, then have to be told what types of things I could and couldn’t wear on a daily basis. I haven’t read the other comments so maybe I’m misinterpreting this.

November 10, 2010 at 8:35 pm

Michelle

(website)

Veteran

I actually give the show’s writers tremendous credit for being corageous enough to depict the period accurately, without sugar-coating it in the name of political correctness. The way women, blacks, homosexuals and pretty much all minority groups were treated back then was nothing less than appalling (if the show is to be believed), but if it was a genuine reflection of the era, then it needs to be highlighted (both in the name of art and posterity). The write in me appreciates the attention to detail, and the independent woman I am rejoices in the times I’ve been privileged to live in. The dress code may have suffered, but there are plenty of other compensations!
Laura: it’s imperative to start at the beginning of season one…the episodes all build on each other, and you’d be hopelessly lost if you jumped in somewhere random.

November 10, 2010 at 8:36 pm

MsMary

Veteran

I was born in 1958, and I have zero interest in going back to pretty much any part of the prevailing culture back then. Just, you know, for the record.

But.

I dress up for work every day because I work in one of the last bastions of business formal, and I love it. And I dress up a lot more on the weekends than I ever did pre-YLF, and I love that, too.

Do I want to impose that on anybody else? Not really. I see people in court every day wearing the most wildly inappropriate clothing, and honestly? It doesn’t bother me all that much. As long as you are clean and decently covered up, I have no need for you to go out and spend money on special clothing just so you can get your child support increased, or so you can get a traffic ticket cleared up, or sue somebody in small claims court for an unpaid bill.

The reality is that formal, mandatory dress codes work a hardship on people of limited means, and, as I said, I have no interest in that kind of thing. It’s hard enough to be poor without having to buy special clothes to fit somebody else’s preferred aesthetic.

I’m team “everybody please be clean and decently covered, no swear words on your clothing, please, and those who love fashion and clothing, knock yourselves out!”

November 10, 2010 at 9:13 pm

Louise

Veteran

I LOVE getting dressed up and agree it’s such a same people go out dressed in sweats and trainers. We frequently go out with BF’s cousin and his family. I’m there in my smart casual denim and fancy top and he’s got sweats on. They are fairly new and clean but even so he looks like he’s pottering around the house x

November 11, 2010 at 1:18 am

Kylara7

First, I want to say “Amen!” to MaryK’s post and thank Kate for the sociological perspective. I will admit I am a fan of more casual dressing though I enjoy the occasional spiffy outfit for a special event, necessary outing to a place where it’s expected OR just because I feel like it on a random day I appreciate the flexibility to choose and would hate for it to be imposed via dress code or something like that. That being said, I am not naturally a person with an eye for fashion and often shopping to putting together “outfits” stresses me out; I would hate to do it every day. However, reading fashion and style blogs like this one (big time lurker outing myself!) have given me some guidelines for finding my way through the overwhelming array of clothes/accessories for women and sticking to some “formulas” that work for me and are manageable

I also am deeply wary of “style” as a class and socioeconomic marker, as Kate and others have substantiated. Too often someone’s “inappropriate” or “messy” look is really a comment on their lower status. I live on a very small income (my colleague calls it genteel poverty) as an academic, which means I choose to spend my extra money on things other than the latest styles, and I tend to overlook people’s clothing if they are clean and covered and carrying themselves with confidence. Modes of dress are more than just fun and creativity and not everyone who had the money or time would choose to “dress well”. I’m glad we have the flexibility!

November 11, 2010 at 3:19 am

Rosie P.

I love this discussion. I was born when Eisenhower was president, and I lived through those times. I was completely blown away watching the show, because it is very, very accurate about the 60’s. Life was much more stratified, both good and bad. And I suspect that is why it is so popular, because many people have almost forgotten how life has changed so radically.

I had several pairs of white gloves, we always wore those out. I still love seeing people wear them on Mad Men.

I didn’t have as many clothes or shoes as I do today either. So choices were more limited. The quality of the clothes was better than the majority of what we are offered today too, although foundtions were awful, especially garter belts and underwire bras. Most of the clothing was made in this country, and lots and lots of people made their own clothes. More is not always better.

I also remember not being able to wear pants to school, unless it was really snowy. And hemlines were crucial–if your skirt or dress was too short it meant you were poor and couldn’t get new stuff.

It would be nice if people dressed a little less casually though.

November 11, 2010 at 4:18 am

Barbara

Veteran

Late to post, but I do agree that we have “Casual gone wild” in this country. I live in jeans, but I am always happy with the way I look. I wear nice tops, jackets, leather sandals, shoes or boots (NEVER sneakers) and accessorize accordingly.

I worked in the corporate world years ago, wearing suits and high heels every day.
When I lived in Europe, I attended operas, concerts and other gala events and loved dressing like a princess! My lifestyle now is more casual, but I NEVER EVER look sloppy.

Working on a large campus, I am appalled at the sloppy looks I am subjected to daily. Some of them are shocking, some are almost vulgar.

We need more civility and class in how we dress. I try to do my part.

November 11, 2010 at 8:27 am

Mac

Veteran

The hippy era did away with a lot of societal norms with its “let it all hang out” attitude. They had a point: much of the rules of clothing seemed foolishly and arbitrarily restrictive (no white after labour day, for instance) and many items were painfully uncomfortable. But again, we threw out the baby with the bath water and perhaps that’s a shame.

I admit that I’ve become more and more casual as I age. When I lived in NYC, there were so many gorgeous, smartly-dressed women and handsome men in suits that I felt the happy pressure to look just as stylish and slim and dressy. I didn’t even own a pair of jeans for at least a 5 years! But now I work from home in a city where I rarely find people’s styles visually appealing, even when they make an effort. And so I spend most days in jeans and lose tops. And no longer being slim, many attractive dressier options aren’t available to me – trying to find a well-cut, good quality suit for my figure is a lesson in frustration while wearing a dressy mumu or caftan just isn’t my style: casual is just waaay easier.

And what of ease of care? When I spill something on my jeans, I can throw them in the wash. When I spill something on my blazer, it can be a $32 dollar dry cleaning bill!

And how about people who dress more formally but look dreadful? My former boyfriend’s mother was very critical of how I dress but I always thought my swipe of mascara, jeans and a sweater looked far more attractive than her heavily-applied makeup, faux-Dior blazer (complete with faux logos everywhere) and teetering made-in-China terrible quality boots. Often neat casual is more appealing (to my eye, at least) than garish dressy.

So yes, in theory I long for a dressier era but in reality, I’m thankful that we have a greater range of options available to us than before. I do feel better when I dress up and notice that men certainly seem to appreciate it more than casual. But gosh, when I am doing errands in a nice blouse that snags and rips on a store’s display rack (this happened last week) I do tend to wish I’d stuck to wearing a t-shirt.

November 11, 2010 at 8:30 am

Arya

(website)

I wholeheartedly agree, Angie! I like to say that I “dress like I mean it”. As a fellow Seattlite, you can imagine how much I tend to stick out in our very casual city. I am often asked if I’m “going to a special event” – because I prefer skirts and dresses (for comfort AND style) and so am usually considered “dressed up” in a world of sweats/jeans & tees. I guess for me *every day* is a special event!

November 11, 2010 at 8:43 am

Carrie D

Active Member

I totally agree about dressing being even more fun when you can dress up! I work from home four days a week (which suits me fine for many reasons), but on the fifth day, when I work from my downtown Seattle office, I am itching to dress up! This is pretty funny, because not only is my office business casual (which my coworkers interpret heavily on the casual side), but I usually work there on Fridays, which is even more casual.

The result is that I get all kinds of “Well, you’re dressed up!” comments (which really are issued as compliments, NOT said with a you-don’t-fit-in-with-the-rest-of-us tone). My response is usually some variation of, “Look, I wear jeans four days a week at home. On Fridays, I get to give the rest of my wardrobe a workout. Besides, I’m a grownup, and I can dress like one if I want to!”

November 11, 2010 at 8:57 am

RoseandJoan

Veteran

I have been thinking about this on and off all day, in my line of work I see people (and their finances) everyday and can say with some authority that how you dress has absolutely no correlation to your bank account or status. Taking this into consideration why does the norm have to be taken to the lowest common denominator, why can the middle ground not be the norm?

Realistically does a pair of black trousers cost any more than jogging bottoms, are shoes not available at the same cost as trainers (sneakers)?

With the improvements in fabric technology comfort is available without resorting to gear. I think parts of society have lost respect for themselves which is reflected in how they dress.

November 11, 2010 at 9:00 am

rae

(website)

Veteran

I work in a corporate office, so I get to wear “dressier” wiggle dresses, pencil skirts, and dressier blouses to my heart’s content. I always thought it would be a hassle, but I actually love it!

November 11, 2010 at 10:50 am

Joy

Veteran

This entry was much food for thought because I’ve lived through these changes. I was a child in the 50’s but vividly remember the clothing. The 60’s were my highschool/college years. I suspect that the change was due to many factors that came together.
There was a big change in fabrics. I can remember my mother being liberated from hours at the ironing board by polyester. Polyester never wrinkled or even faded. If fact it was indestructable. I don’t remember ever having a tee shirt or seeing anyone else in one, even in college. James Dean wore one in a movie that scandalized everyone because he was showing his underwear.
The comfort. As a rail thin 13 year old I had to wear a girdle to hold up stockings for dress occasions because my parents felt garter belts were not something “nice” women wore. I rebelled against always having to wear little white gloves and froufrou hats and absolutely hated scratchy ruffled organdy fabric dresses.
Girls never wore pants, let alone jeans. Even in college (small Midwest private) girls didn’t go to classes or meals in any kind of pants except they were finally allowed on Saturday afternoons. This is too long but I wanted to paint a bit of the picture of the times.
The change came quite quickly in the mid 60’s to my part of the world. The Hippie life style affected everything, not just clothing. For example my college went from men’s and women’s dorms and strict rules about hours and where visitors could be to no rules in 2 years! People just started doing what they pleased.
I think that the only thing that will really change our sloppy casual life-style and dress today will be some kind of social pressure from peers. If we just keep doing our best despite criticism and remarks about how dressed up we look, we can change some minds and those may change others. It doesn’t take more money or time or even less comfort to dress well today.

November 11, 2010 at 11:13 am

judy

(website)

I think the current climate of poor dressing is due to two things:

The advent of the mega stores everywhere, where you can buy poor quality inexpensive clothes.

And the fact that when you wear those clothes and shoes that used to be reserved for gym class at one time, you do not get turned away at school, or work, or the restaurant.

Both of these things did not used to exist back in the days of Mad Men.

It was a buttoned up, girdled up, and yes, dressed up time. There were codes, and somehow, everyone knew them. I’m the same age as Sally in the show and my mom and gramma knew them all :). Like whether you needed a hat…and gloves! If you were inappropriately dressed, you got schooled, by the principal/your boss/ the host at the restaurant… but probably by your parents/spouse before you even left the house. You didn’t dress by how you felt, but by what was expected of you. Maybe in everything, that is how you behaved. There really was no alternative.

I agree with Mac, that the hippie revolution of the late sixties will break it open, not just clothes, but how we thought about everything. I can’t wait to see how the show’s brilliant writers and costume designers will portray it! Such changes, in what felt like overnight as the counter culture emerges. We’ve seen little bits of it already on the show. It was a very exciting time. It probably had to evolve.

But it seemed to me that revolution opened the gateway to creativity for subsequent decades, which is the opposite of the kind of laziness that people seem to regard their wardrobe with these days. You used to have to search out clothing stores…and even in food, you had to go to specialty stores, like the butcher, etc. Did this make us choosier? Maybe when we have to take more time with it, we are more aware of what we are buying. And the quality of clothes were better then, so they were seen more as an investment that we would care for…and about.

Good blog post, Angie!

November 11, 2010 at 11:36 am

MsMaven

Veteran

I remember Mama struggling to pull on her girdle as she dressed in the morning. Next came the stockings–she had to be so careful not to get a run because nylons were so expensive, and then check to make sure the seams were straight. (And recheck during the day.) Then she attached them to the garters. She already had the pointy, ill-fitting bra on. Next came the slip and then the dress. She wore a freshly washed and ironed house dress every day. Monday was washday, Tuesday was ironing day, all day. Once I was old enough there was always a pile of table cloths and napkins for me to finish up after I got home from school.

Despite the fact that my Mom was quite athletic, especially for her age and the time and place, she was flabby. She was pear-shaped, a bit plump, but if she went without her girdle her buttocks moved around a bit–strictly forbidden in that era unless you wanted to be branded a floozy.

During the depression she worked for a milliner, so she knew how to decorate hats. She always wore a hat to go out, as did her mother. In fact, as a housewife she gave classes in our living room in hat decorating as well as lampshade making. I was very proud of her because she made most of her own clothes using Vogue patterns. She was also prissy, uptight, and unhappy with her lot in life.

Girls and boys did wear Levis in that era–boys to school, girls after and on Saturday because we had to wear dresses to school. The Levis were stiff as boards when they were new and everyone rolled up the legs because you had to buy them long with room to grow.

I watched 1 1/2 episodes of Mad Men. They were very dark and I won’t watch the show again. I grew up in that era, and I can tell you that now is better even if many people are slobs. Occasionally I drive by the local high school and I am struck by how much conformity in dressing still survives.

I could go on and on, but I have just one message for you my fellow YFMers: Freedom! Freedom to be who you are, aspire to whatever your dream might be and make it happen, and freedom to wear a girdle and a garter belt and a pointy-cardboard bra if you want. I guarantee you won’t want to wear them for long.

November 11, 2010 at 1:30 pm

Babe

(website)

I am a Maddict myself — some one addicted to the show. I love watching it because it reminds me of how things were. I worked in NYC in the mid sixties in my 20’s, and I can tell you what happened. Women realized that as long as they wore clothing that flaunted their figures — part of what made them so different from men — they were going to be treated as sexual objects. That kind of “consciousness raising” as we used to call it, along with the fresh outlook that hippies and psychedelics brought onto the scene, pretty much squashed getting gussied up for work. Then the 80’s just pushed formalized, tidy style over the cliff.

It doesn’t cost a lot to look good. And it doesn’t take a lot of time, thanks to today’s fabrics. What people miss out on by flashing their midrifs and barefeet is respect from other people. It’s the class thing — dressing well tells people you are important (at least in your own mind) and deserve to be treated well. Anyone can use the system.

That underwear wasn’t all that uncomfortable, either!

And yes, I sewed almost all my own clothing, even winter coats and formal dresses. That’s just the way we all rolled. Now, we need to find a compromise.

November 11, 2010 at 1:41 pm

MsMary

Veteran

If you can afford to buy new clothes, then no, it doesn’t cost much more to buy a pair of black dress pants than to buy a pair of sweat pants, or a pair of dress shoes than a pair of athletic shoes.

But many, many people in this world can’t afford to buy new clothes. Has anybody read “Nickled and Dimed” by Barbara Ehrenreich? In that book she takes a bunch of minimum-wage jobs, including one at Wal-Mart, and talks about how hard it was because she had to adhere to Wal-Mart’s dress code but couldn’t afford to buy the clothes they sold there.

So. If you can’t afford to buy new clothes, you have to buy second-hand, or rely on hand-me-downs. Which means you can’t be nearly as picky. And if there are formal dress codes in place requiring everybody to wear dress shoes and black dress pants, there are going to be fewer of those garments available on the second-hand market, and it is going to take more time to search for them and acquire them, and… as I said in my first post, the formalized dress codes are going to work a hardship on those at the bottom of the economic ladder.

Yes, it’s a class thing. And I believe that institutionalized dress codes benefit the upper classes and disadvantage the lower classes. It may not cost a LOT to look good (and by “look good,” we all mean “look like you are middle class or above”), and it may not take a LOT of time, but when you are working two minimum wage jobs and raising a family, having to adhere to a specific dress code makes your life just that much harder.

Or… what MsMaven said!

November 11, 2010 at 2:30 pm

kh

I agree completely. I wish we still dressed in a more formal fashion. I also wish we still addressed each other on a more formal level. I would prefer to go back to last name basis except for family and close friends. My favorite style is the 40’s and 50’s.

November 11, 2010 at 2:51 pm

Late Bloomer

(website)

Active Member

At the college level it seemed like it happened almost overnight. In the early 60s I remember walking to class in the freezing cold in a skirt or dress because it had to be below zero Fahrenheit before we were permitted to wear pants to class. Since we didn’t have tights then it was really miserable. Just 4 years later my the hippies had transformed things, the rules were gone and everyone word jeans. It was more gradual in the business world.

November 11, 2010 at 3:39 pm

LeahJanes

Active Member

As long as people are clean, covered, and they treat their fellow humans with respect and courtesy, I don’t care what they are wearing. I bemoan the lack of manners in modern society, but I don’t bemoan the demise of draconian dressing rules.

I would never want to go back to the days where you were judged as an inferior person because of the fabric you covered your back with, or as one of the previous posters said, being labeled a “floozy” cause your bum wobbled a bit. Some people don’t care about clothing, or as Mary said, can’t afford to care. We should count ourselves lucky we get to choose what we wear!

November 11, 2010 at 5:34 pm

Rachel

At my work, which is quite arty casual, we have started “Throwback Thursdays” – it started as a Mad Men dress-up day, but now it’s really just the one day day a week where we wear the work fashions of yesteryear, where my male colleagues pull out the ties and cufflinks, and I (sadly) pull out the pantyhose. It’s fun, and very entertaining to see people in their finery, but I definitely find I don’t work as well, or as fast, as when I wear my more casual clothes – which are not even that casual, but they don’t involve nylons!

November 12, 2010 at 10:11 am

Lena

Ladies, thank you for chiming in. I especially appreciated reading stories from those of you who lived through the Mad Men era.

November 13, 2010 at 1:27 pm

chrisbean

(website)

when I got my first office job out of college, I taught myself how to dress for work by studying old movies: especially the film noir gem Laura, starring Gene Tierney, and anything starring Rosalind Russell or either Hepburn.

In retrospect, it was referring back to a time when women en masse were learning how to dress and navigate male-dominated workplaces while still looking fab. I experimented with different identities through the lens of classic iconic female silhouttes; one day in a circle skirt and sleeveless scoopneck top a la West Side Story, and the next in capris and ballet flats a la Jean Seberg.

I love the Mad Men aesthetic, and I was rocking it in the workplace ten years ahead of the show’s premiere!

November 13, 2010 at 2:59 pm

malcontent

I very much agree with you, Angie, and I am so tired of the tiresome arguments in favor of “casual” (actually, sloppy) dressing. It’s not psychologically comfortable to go out in sweatpants, never mind how physically comfortable it may or may not be. I’m actually wearing a jersey dress and knee-high boots right now and I am plenty comfortable without looking like someone who just doesn’t care.

I guess I blame the generation or two that preceeded mine. At some point, they decided that casual should rule and the definition of casual has become ever more lax. The people in my generation never had a chance.

November 14, 2010 at 12:37 pm

Tanya

Veteran

I love Mad Men fashion, that is my favorite fashion era. I do not like today’s over casual dressing, since I prefer dressier and more formal style. But I do adjust to the environment, although I us up every chance when no one would object to my dressing up.

November 15, 2010 at 5:34 pm

Steph

Ahhh, the days of yore–when everyone dressed up just to go to the kitchen and no one was ever ever rude or arrogant or judgemental or crazy or lazy. Not.
I agree, sometimes our environment does affect our attitude and conduct, and that includes dress, but it’s like the nature/nurture debate. Which is stronger? The mores you were raised with, or the mores of your current environment?
The “good old days” weren’t so great in so many ways–although from a distance they always look rosy. Those dress codes also came more often than not with extremely strict social codes and prejudices. This is not to say I don’t love many of the fashions from the dark ages through the 70s. (we’ll just ignore the 80s and most of the 90s)
That’s why I’m thrilled to pieces to have been raised in an age when I have the choice to dress super casually or to get dolled up, as my day and the situation either demands or encourages.
I drift between casual, business casual and business dress at work, despite working in an office that’s 90 percent super casual (jeans, sweatshirts, and shorts in the summer are not uncommon–and I’m not talking chic shorts outfits). Yes, a little more effort to dress stylishly and carefully would spruce up the place–but in the end, that’s not what we’re here for.
As my high school teachers used to admonish us–“This isn’t a fashion show, people, you’re here to learn/work.” Sitting in a skirt or dress all day presents no significant difference for me than sitting in nice jeans all day–although the jeans tend to be more comfortable.

November 16, 2010 at 3:31 pm

Adrienne

Ah my mom had a hell of a time finding clothing that fit her well because she was a PLUS petite. I think she was very stressed out about dressing up during the 1950, and 1960 era. I remember my mother always walking around in a “housedress”. This was her all purpose day dress which usually looked awful. With the invention of polester she could find knit tops and pants that fit and looked a whole lot better than her housedresses.
I think the wealth of variety today is much better. A lot of people are fairly unimaginative in their dressing and keep it simple. I prefer to add style like most others on this blog. It is so much more fun to dress up!!

November 22, 2010 at 7:06 pm

suzanne

Active Member

According to some ex-pat Brits South Africans (and I think by this he meant the more ‘westernised’ part of the population) are still about 20 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to the giving up of certain norms. So, we South Africans are a confused lot. We have an intensely casual approach to dressing in certain occasions and a tendency to over-dress in others: teachers are expected to dress up when at school (my fiancée still wears ties, button down shirts and blazers to school and he is a teacher, not a pupil); you don’t attend meetings without at least wearing a tie; in my family we still ‘dress’ for supper and as a good Calvinist girl I dress up when going to church (never bare legs or anything with stretch However, things are slowly changing, I think it’s simply a matter of time before we are as uniformly “casualised” as the rest of the former British “colonies”. I wonder – totally giving in to the South African weather at long last?

June 3, 2011 at 7:10 am

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