Excellent post! I am wondering if we could help ourselves out by tagging certain retailers as being preferred for certain body types. For example, I’ve heard Angie mention that Eddie Bauer is great for one specific body type. So what if we had a list: If you’re an hourglass, try Ann Taylor. If you’re a rectangle, go for Banana Republic. (These aren’t accurate, just examples).

Or does that make no sense? Is fit too garment-specific to make these kinds of generalizations?

I think you make a great point Angie, but for those of us who can only take shopping in small doses, it does prove frustrating. I think this is why I buy so much of my clothing from JCrew. I can buy it online (no store nearby) because I know what size I am, and it is always the same for me (plus, they have more colors online, and I prefer the bright persimmon and crazy blue, to the really plain colors they sell in stores.).

The other upside to inconsistent sizing is that it makes us focus less on the numbers. Well, sometimes – and it depends on how you’re wired. But I know that jean size is such an emotional issue for so many of us, myself included, and it actually helps me obsess LESS about it to be able to take a 4-size range of jeans depending on who makes them.

I’m focused on fit, as you say Angie, instead of numbers and weight and all the associated repercussions.

I like Laura’s idea of brand recommendations for body types. It takes so long to discover this on your own!

I say wear what fits. If you don’t like the number on the label, rip it out and move on. Life is too short to worry about the number on the little tag.

I agree with this in theory but maybe we can hope for consistent sizing within a BRAND! There is no consistency even within brands!

I know that IN GENERAL ATL fits me well. But sometimes I wear a small…sometimes a medium…sometimes a 4…sometimes a 6 or a 2. I’ve given up ordering online since I cannot order 3 sizes of each garment just to hope that I find one that fits!

Honestly, I don’t think the size matters..or that fit varies from brand to brand. But within a brand, I would want the sizing to be consistent.

Great point, Sal. Inconsistent sizing has caused me not to have a self-esteem issue around what size I am and focus on what looks good to me.

The downside to sizing in today’s world is that it makes ordering things online very difficult. Retailers that offer free, quick and easy returns are wise. Zappos is the ultimate in this…we’ve dealt with not knowing what shoe size is going to fit us forever, right? So, Zappos over came that problem by making it easy to send them back and get a new pair, just like when you are in the shoe store. (okay wiht a day lag, but still!)

I agree with you Angie. However, when I moan about inconsistent sizing what I mean is that when I go to a specific retailer, I want to know that a size 2p is going to be the same fit as it usually is. So consistency *within* a brand – not from brand to brand.

GAP brands – Banana Republic, ON, Gap – are ideal in this. If I have a pair of pants that are a size 2p and fit great, I can be confident knowing if I order another pair of 2p’s they are also going to fit similarly. Yeah! This makes ordering online so much less of a hit or miss thing, and reduces costly returns.

Citizens of Humanity is also very good with this, no matter what the cut or style, I can be fairly confident I will wear the same size. (Whether the cut flatters is a different story, but at least it will fit).

Jcrew is the absolute worst culprit, and Ann Taylor Loft recently seems to be going this direction too. I can never be sure whether I’m a 0 or a 2 or a 4, from one top or pair of slacks to another, or a XXS, XS, or S. There is simply no rhyme or reason from one garment to another. And THAT is what I find frustrating. If I simply knew with confidence I was always a size 2 or a Small in these brands, then I would order online more frequently. As it stands, with such inconsistency it’s a crap shoot and a huge waste of money. If they can’t fix this (I suspect it has to do with manufacturing) then they should have free exchanges and returns. Especially Jcrew, which does not offer petites in the store!

I like this solution. It reminded me that sometimes they offer free alterations in Turkey. Especially in business suits and hemming of any type. Some stores go as far as having a staff tailor in store. I always took it for granted at the time and haven’t thought about until now. The policy there is you are not allowed to return something unless there’s something wrong with it. So it only makes sense that they make sure you’re 100% happy with it before you bring it home.

Sal’s suggestion is one of the reasons why I do so much shopping at Nordstrom and Nordstrom Rack. I live in jeans, and when I buy them at the regular retail store, they’ll hem them for free. I recently scored a pair of kut from the kloth trouser jeans at the Rack that had been marked down to $10. Add $11 hemming and $24 to have the waist nipped in (yep, I’m an hourglass) and I’m still paying way less than what they cost retail.

While I’ve definitely been seduced and manipulated by inconsistent vanity sizing, my waist-to-hip ratio has forced me to focus more on fit than size. The proof is how it looks on you in the mirror.

Oh, and I’ve also been disappointed by ATL lately, shiny. I think they must be cutting bigger stacks to save money, the fit varies so widely!

I say, don’t get attached to the size label… Or know your measurements and carry dressmaker’s tape!

Reading these comments, I suppose I am happy that my body seems to adapt to loose styles well! I have long since given up on matching top/bottomsets, since I do much better at separates…I have always shortened my own pants – $10 for hemming? – and occasionally sleeves. But usually, I roll up the sleeves of my blouses, and even my jackets (which comes in & out of style). Years ago I wore Petite sizes due to waist placement – but I have long since given that up – Sheaths, etc. never looked that good on me, anyway – and I only had clothes like that when my mother could make them for me in my size! One other side benefits for us frugalists of inconsistent sizing – Very often lovely clothes show up in thrift shops due to being sized incorrectly!

What is this ‘Sal’ you speak of, and do they have stores in Pennsylvania?

I have a ten-inch difference between my waist and hip, plus I have large shoulders and big thighs, so nothing fits me off the rack. I would LOVE to be able to get my clothes tailored without a fuss!

My biggest issue with non-standard sizes is I prefer to shop by inches – gimme inches for my waist, for my hips, for my shoulders, for my leg, I’m awesome. Obscure and arbitrary numbers do nothing for me.
One thing I wish for, though, is for the world to get out of 32 inch leg – 34 looks better, and 35 is best for me, but anything past that (like 36 inch) is a little too long, gets under my heel, and is utterly frustrating. Why can’t we have half-sizes and uneven numbers? I can only break away from my even-numbers OCD for clothing sizes, and that’s because I’m frankly a 13, not a 14 or 12, most of the time, but shopping in Jr’s “plus” ends up with this weird tube-shaped jean with tiny thighs and no waist, plus doesn’t have enough room for my breasts.

… Gosh, how do people do this every day?!

I am glad Angie saw the silver lining in the clouds and spoke up for the retail industry. The more expensive boutiques and dept. stores do offer tailoring as Sal is quoted as saying in Angie’s post.

And the more expensive brands are more consistent in their sizing – think Neiman Marcus. The consumer can’t expect to score bargain clothes and have them be consistent in fitting them well.

And also about the 32 inch leg…how can 32 inches be dragging on the floor in one brand and too short in another. Isn’t 32 inches 32 inches?

I’m not even bothered much by inconsistent fit within a brand, because it’s usually due to the cut of the garment. For me, for pants and skirts, I might go up or down a size based on where the waistband hits. For tops, I might go up or down depending on the tailoring around the bust and the stomach and the shoulders or the arm length. (I’m a 34 AA, so I’ve pretty much stopped bothering with woven shirts, because so few of them fit.)

If we’re compiling data on brand and shape, I do have to say that the dresses at Ann Taylor are generally great if you’re pear-shaped. Maybe it’s because they tend to be all about the a-line, but I’ve worn the same dress size there for years, and they all fit me perfectly. Total ego boost.

I agree yet it doesn’t make my life any easier. Old Navy just dropped the size 1 with the exception of their jeans line in favor of using the even sizes 0-14. What I don’t understand about this is who even wears the size 0; seems like it is always on the sales rack. They’ve abandoned me as part of their market; other than their skinny jeans I will never be able to buy pants there again. I tried on the size 0 earlier this week and it doesn’t work for me….Instead of standardizing sizes I think there should be a return to Nazi like 1960s sizing. I should be a 4 and all the big boned fatties out there should be the real 8, 10s, 12s and even 14s that they really are. My mother had clothes when I was a kid and she was even smaller than me. I tried on her prom dress from the 50s when I was 27 and couldn’t even zip it up.

Cathy, I understand your frustration but your language is really quite rude and insulting to just about everyone here.

I have always disagreed with the idea of standardized sizing. If I may be honest, I think most women really only think about themselves when it comes to this issue, as if they are the “average” woman (when there is no such thing). Many women just assume that they are the textbook size 8, and if a pair of pants in an 8 doesn’t fit them, the garment is defective. They don’t realize that the same pair of pants might fit another size 8 woman just fine, if she has a different shape. When I try things on, I always try on a 2 and a 4. Sometimes one will fit and one won’t. Sometimes neither one will fit, but it’s neither my fault nor the manufacturer’s fault.

I recently got a pair of Cheap Monday jeans in my size (27) and they were so straight and tight that there was just no hope of zipping and buttoning them. Surely if the had more stretch or curved more in the hip area, they would have fit, but they didn’t. They were meant for very slim-hipped inverted triangles or rectangles. I’m not going to blame Cheap Monday as a brand for this. Someone needs to make clothes for women with those shapes. Same with the Express Mias. I tried them in a 2 and a 4 and neither one fit, but lots of people from the forum love them. That’s life.

Just imagine the brand that fits you the least well, and imagine that all the clothes in the world fit that way because that was the standard. How would that make you feel? Sounds like a bad idea to me.

My only issue with inconsistent sizing is that as a mother of a toddler, I don’t have time to try on clothes. I’m lucky to make it to the store at all. I can’t even shop around anymore, I can only go to one store (the store I know will mostly likely have things I like — the Gap for the last 2 yrs), and only once every few months, and I have to hope that what I pick up fits cause there won’t be a chance to exchange anything. It’s very difficult. . I know some babies are alright with shopping, but mine is very independent. . .a blessing and a curse.

I look forward to being able to try on clothes and shop around again .. someday Ah, life’s cruelties!

Cathy,

Well, I wear a size 0, and I also am in the fashion and beautry industry and I can tell you there are ALOT of women who wear this size.

It seems that each store has it’s own sizing standards. Find a store that works for you and stick to that store. I guess Old Navy isn’t the store for you.

I tend to agree with both Angie and Shiny. The fact that the sizing varies from brand to brand could be a blessing in disguise, but I would very much love for the sizing to be consistent WITHIN the same brand. Sometimes it even varies between different colors for the exact same item of clothing. If it were consistent within the same brand, it would make it so much easier for a lot of us who are very busy to order things online more freely.

A couple of things to add to the discussion:

1) What’s more frustrating than having to take in multiple pairs is when a company makes the pants poorly. I once tried on three pairs of pants all in the same size, all from the same company, all the same style and color … one pair was way too big and the other two were varying degrees of too small. I’ve seen it happen also where one color fits and another doesn’t but that example was probably the worst I experienced. This makes the sizing issue worse.

2) Why do we not have instead of one size, several measurements to go off of on the label. Guys have waist and length for pants. Why not have length, waist, hips and rise measurements on a pair of pants. It might take some getting used to but it might also speed up the shopping process some.

I don’t care what numeric size I am, I just want to not hate pants shopping so much. I’ve got 5 pair of pants I bought at an outlet mall that need to go to the tailor because I gave up on finding an exact fit … but I’ve had them for 6 months and still not made it to the tailor. Ugh!

I see your point, Angie, and I agree with others that said that when your “size” is inconsistent between brands, you tend to focus less on the numbers and more on good fit. In 0-14 sized clothes I have a range of 3 sizes that I might buy, and in the bridesmaid dress I just bought, the line runs so small that I ordered one 3 sizes bigger than usual. In tops I could be a M or L or even XL depending on how a garment is cut.

That being said, I really wish that retailers’ size charts actually corresponded with the garments they produce instead of being a rough estimate, and I wish that all stores were consistent with their own sizing. I agree with Jane and Athena that inconsistent sizing pretty much means that if I order online, I either have to make multiple exchanges or else deal with ordering several sizes and paying to ship it back (since many stores don’t have a friendly return policy.) It’s just too frustrating, so for the most part I don’t shop online unless I know a certain brand VERY well.

Cathy: Perhaps a trip to Asia is due for you? We have many stores which could fit your petite size quite well, and airfare here from various places is quite affordable.

I’ve given up on consistent sizing and just try on everything. Depending on the store and garment, I’m a M, L, or XL (and if I go to the US or Canada, I’m back to an S!). Best to find what fits and get it altered if necessary (or learn how to alter oneself).

Let me come out of my “lurking” to say this and I think my husband would agree too . Men’s sizing is worse too. may be their pants are pretty standard size but we always find it hard when it comes to t-shirt shopping or sometimes even shirt shopping for hubby. Gap started making these t-shirts that look good only on men who have 6-pack abs and are also on the skinny side.

I had bunch of my male friends complain that it used to be no problem shopping for their clothes when they were in their 20’s. When they grow older it get’s hard because they seem to fit no where – either to wear the plaid shirts or to wear the muscle-t’s

Sorry I got off-topi

While I agree that inconsistent sizing is a blessing in disguise, I think it has gotten worse recently. I’ve always found fluctuations in my size for jeans, pants, and skirts and I expect and am okay with that but for the last 8-10 years I’ve consistently been a Medium in tops. When I lived close to my mom we would shop together but now that I live 8 hours away she tends to still shop for clothes for me (almost always shirts) and give them to me when she sees me. She always buys Medium and in the last year I’ve had to return over half of the Mediums that she has bought. I currently have anything from and XS to a L in my closet and I am one person. That is almost every size that is made!

I still love the idea of compiling a list of which brands have good fits for certain body shapes…let’s do it!

I agree with Angie that sizing should not be standardized, for the reasons she described. However, I think the absolutely, most helpful thing a company could do is post the ACTUAL garment measurements on their websites. Though I’ve never ordered anything from Net-a-Porter, they do often times post the size and the bust, waist and length measurements on the site for each individual garment, which I find extremely useful. General size charts are worthless, because sizing is not consistent even within a brand.

Cathy, I guess I’m confused by your post. Are you saying you’re bigger than a 0, but smaller than a 2? So you wear a size 1, and you’re complaining because ON no longer carries a size 1, is that it? Odd sizes (1, 3, 5, etc) is the sizing scheme used by junior/teenybopper clothing lines and departments. Even sizing is what misses/women’s lines use. Does that make sense? Anyway, my suggestion is that you shop in the juniors department, and us big-boned fatties can shop in the women’s/misses department, and then everyone is happy.

Brie, “Sal” is a person who commented on my blog post last week. She is not a store!

I hear you ladies. Size inconsistency is especially frustrating when it comes to ordering online. It would be a step in the right direction if retailers offered detailed garment measurements on their sites. Nordstrom does this best at the moment.

As for being able to go into a single store and be assured that EVERYTHING in a particular size from that store is consistently fitting, is still a tall order. Style and fabric integrity influence garment production. Having worked in a factory and with garment manufacturers for years, I can honestly say that clothing manufacture is an absolute art and not a science. It is very hard to control size consistency. As is, retailers do a superb job. Higher end retailers do an especially good job which is to Carissa’s point.

There are stores who are notoriously bad with size consistency like H&M, Anne Taylor Loft, Old Navy, Esprit and J Crew. Then there are stores who are outstanding with size consistency, like Club Monaco. I can walk into that store and pick up virtually any item in my size and it will fit perfectly. That is a rare retail experience. Banana Republic does a pretty good job as well.

Carrie, why don’t you start off the topic by posting a thread on the forum. The ladies there adore making lists.

Cathy, I understand your sizing frustrations. If you’re after a size 1, then Ana is spot on with her suggestion. But because sizing is inconsistent across the retail industry, you might fit into a size 0 somewhere else. I’d be happy to give you a list of stores that make adult clothing to fit your dainty frame. Also, remember that style is not a size, age or budget. Dressing well and looking good in the body that you have is totally achievable whether you’re a size 2, 8 or 14. If you’re not convinced, have a look at the stylish lasses on our form where we have all sizes and body types covered. It proves this point over and over again.

i was thinking about this while shopping today. I was interested in white and blue denim clamdiggers (they were exactly the same except for color) and brought 2 sizes of each into the dressing room with me as I usually do. I needed the larger size in the white and the smaller in the denim and its because the lighter color shows more lumps and creases than the darker denim. So color CAN make a difference in fit. I am convinced that it would be impossible for a retailer to achieve true consistency due to differences like this.

Just on the sizing thing – if you guys lived in Australia, like I do, none of you would be wearing 0 or 2 or 4! Mostly our sizes start at 8, occasionally 6. Sometimes it is difficult to imagine what you are talking about when you mention sizes (apart from all the brand/ style variations already mentioned).

I like Sal’s suggestions about free tailoring too!

Excellent point, Mellllls.

Quite right, Anne. Australia uses British sizes, which means that a US zero is the equivalent to a size 6 or 8 in the UK (or Australia or South Africa). The same way a US size zero is equivalent to a French size 36 and a German size 32. Hope that makes sense. It’s all rather confusing.

But this un-standardization makes my life a living nightmare. I have literally no choice BUT to go online with my clothing choices: I’m sorry, but 34 inch inseams (AKA the longest option for instore shopping, generally) are that Pant Length you want for me to have – if I never wear shoes ever, ever again. Guess where I have to go to find options that are close to fitting? Everywhere I look it’s: “WE HAVE TALL SIZES — ONLINE”. I mean, that is if Tall sizing is even an option.

And I am going to ask for you to excuse my French but *I’m* going to wear pants that are too short than go thru a hassle to even go *anywhere* near this monstrosity: http://www.martinandosa.com/we.....jsp#womens

What does that chart mean? I’m an American Consumer, what’s all this stuff about Japanese sizes? Can’t that be a separate chart? Can’t there be a list that I can click on what sizing system I want and get a chart in that sizing system? I mean, it is SERIOUS information overload for somebody that wants to know wtf is a 12 in inches at Martin + Osa.

Can’t we just HAVE one sizing system, by the way?

This is one of those reasons why sometimes I wish I was a man. Not only is all the formal clothing highly ritualized to the point where a lot of the “womanly” art of guesswork is taken out of men’s hands, but at six feet, I’d be pretty much catered to on a silver tea set.

Size inconsistency can be a headache, but like several other ladies who posted, I have gotten to know which stores tend to make clothes that fit me best and shop there first if I need something. And I am so glad I know how to sew, because I can do most of the alterations I need myself, which saves quite a bit of $$$.

I wonder though if size inconsistency has become more of a problem within the last 10 years because it’s now fashionable to wear close-fitting styles which means the fit has to be more precise. When I was in high school and university in the 1990s, for example, I never had a problem finding button down shirts that fit, because shirts were not so form fitting back then. Now everything is tight in the shoulders, even if the body of the shirt fits. Same with jackets. I also don’t remember seeing so many people in skintight T-shirts and knit tops back then as I’m seeing now.

Beautiful, I love the look! I always try to layer but end up with the default cami’s. I will have to consider when I move into the “tops” portion of my closet sweep. I’ve spent my budget for the month now though! Great idea!!

I agree! I wish it was easier somehow, but was surprised last weekend when I went shopping. Loved everything that was in BCBG but NOTHING fit. Then I went into Banana Republic and everything I tried on looked fantastic. The cuts can be so different while still being the same size.

I don’t have a problem with sizes being different (and differently-styled) from brand to brand; what I would like is for clothing to be labeled by their actual dimension, lessening the need for size charts. Working out what size you are shouldn’t be an exercise in beginning cryptography! I guess I’m in Hilary and Nora’s camp.

Agreed. I would never wish to get rid of inconsistent sizing with the issues you have pointed out. Being extra small, most stores do not carry my size at all, unless I shop in the juniors department. I would hate standardized sizing. That would illuminated places like Express where I know almost every XS and 0 will fit me. Once you try on a lot of clothes at various places you do tend to find your nitch of stores that make clothes in your size. I’m getting there. Right now I love Express, Charlotte Russe, and just about any juniors department. Like others, I would like to see more consistent sizing within any particular brand. This is why I do not shop online. I do like the idea of recommendations of various stores for the different body types. And I love the idea of free tailoring. I have half a closet full of clothes that I can’t afford to have tailor. Guess I should stop buying new things and use my small clothing budget on tailoring.