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YLF cheerleading

ironkurtin

Veteran

Okay, I have a different kind of post!

There are several posts up about hurt feelings, not getting enough positive responses, etc. And I'm sorry to say it, but I have the opposite problem - too darn much cheerleading on this forum! Everyone loves everything! No one offers a critique! When everyone only feels they can say YES, then the quality of the feedback goes pfft IMO. We are all lovely, caring, kind human beings - so I think we can kindly and caringly give crits (when merited), too!

Guys, we CAN offer constructive outfit feedback. Shoot, Angie often steps in to - kindly and actionably - disagree with an outfit or suggest changes. Dare to differ.

For example:

- I love X! I think I'd prefer if the sweater were looser to provide more of a contrast.
- I love both pieces, but I think two drapey pieces together is a bit overwhelming. Have you thought about a skimming top with those great pants?
- Nice butt! Not feeling the love for that shirt. Maybe it's the photo.
- I've never been a culottes fan but the way you put them together in black with black makes me reconsider. Nah. Still not a fan (on me). Rock them for me!
- Oh honey. Those jeans just do not get you. Burn them.

To me, these are examples of real engagement with an outfit.

Or am I the only one who wishes there was more analysis and less Go Girl!
?

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75 replies

Latest reply was from texstyle

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Your post made me laugh. Thanks for the chuckle

I am always truthful, and not frightened to be a spanner or wet blanket. I take my job seriously, and would not be doing it properly if I kept my spannering moments to myself. It does take time, energy, and engagement though. It is easier to agree, un-constructively disagree, or not say anything at all. But to say something less positive in a nice way is harder. I understand that people shy away from doing this.

Furthermore, I will not offer constructive feedback to those who do not seek it. It has to be made clear on the thread that feedback is welcome. Some people are not after this type of exchange, and that's also absolutely fine. People post on YLF for many different reasons.

Makrame

Veteran

I like your suggested comment #3! Would like to copy/paste it in its entirety and find a way to use it in a post.

How is that for excessive positive feedback?

I often have trouble finding enough time to think about ways to tweak an outfit and post constructive criticism. My rule of thumb is - if I see something I like, I say it right away; if something gives me pause, I may need more time, and sometimes I just don't get around to posting my thoughts. That said, I always appreciate constructive criticism of my outifts since I know it takes quite a bit of effort.

Raisin

Veteran

I always offer constructive feedback when asked. I have often added my comment that disagrees with the pack, but usually I will qualify it with something like, "I guess I'm going against the grain here" , "or sorry to be a spanner, but". I'm not afraid to say something negative when I know the person is asking for all types of feedback, but I will ALWAYS say it in a nice way. I strive to be "nice" to others in life, whether online or IRL.

Anonymous

In short, yes. As a matter of fact, that is the way the forum used to be.
In long, I don't think that would work anymore. Too many sensitivities at play, plus I think the culture shifted to only providing feedback when asked.

claracluck

constructive is nearly always positive,there are so many hateful forums on the internet where people hide behind their screen using it to be the vile persona they can't be IRL.women should support each other and give positve feedback,thats one of the greart thing about ylf .members move forward with their style journey without malice or mean comments and so the premise works!

ironkurtin

Veteran

Zap, I've only been on the forum for about 2 years, but I agree people seem to be more sensitive, or at least more vocal about being sensitive, than when I joined. Maybe there will be another shift, and in a few months we'll be posting that people need to back off!

Clara, I think supporting each other can also mean suggestions and helpful critiques, don't you? I'm not sure I agree that support always has to be saying "wonderful!"

Mona

Veteran

I agree with you, IK. Initially I used to post WIW's looking for suggestions to improve and tweak but none was happening. Then, I realized something that for me, it is much harder to critique an outfit as a lot of times I can't put my finger on what's not working. So same thing was happening to other people too. Like Angie said, it is much easier to say nicer things than take the time to critique in a nicer way.

rebekahphoto

Veteran

I love it: "- Oh honey. Those jeans just do not get you. Burn them." !!

my husband an I often chuckle over this old TV Ad:
woman: "Honey, do I look fat in these pants?"
man, instinctively, : "it's not the pants...." then he realized his brutal honesty was maybe a little too directly served....

in all seriousness, I do try to be honest and constructive always. I give lots of critiques at work, and I feel a successful critique points out the positives, looks for the possibility for change as well as addresses things that are not working. It is in pushing forward that real change can happen, whether in art, or personal style, etc.

ClaraT

Veteran

I think posts/responses are most effective when the poster asks a specific question *and* requests feedback. For example: Are these pants the right length? Is this pattern overwhelming on me? Does this patterned sweater go well with this patterned shirt? As Mona notes, sometimes this is hard to do (since something may look off but it is hard to say what it is).

I do tend to follow the 'if you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all' rule, which I agree may not be conducive to giving good advice.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Dana, I love your examples. I actually think we do this, too. Just not to every outfit or every post. For the reasons already mentioned.

I'm an encourager at heart - it's my personality. I see what's good in others before I see the flaws. And also -- I know that -- speaking for myself -- I grow more by paying attention to what I am doing WELL than by worrying about what I'm doing badly.

Still, I think it's totally appropriate to say: I don't care for the proportions of this, but I love the colours on you; or have you considered a lighter bag with that; or I like the fit of this jacket on you better than that one. These are important observations and we ought to feel free to give them to one another.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

Your post also made me laugh. Agreed, but it is hard to give feedback when someone posts without asking for it. As Angie said above, people post for different reasons and if they don't ask for suggestions or my opinion I do not offer them. I find I get a lot more constructive feedback when I pose specific questions and that K/R posts will always get more rounded feedback than "I wore this and I loved it" sort of posts.

Diana

Veteran

If I have a specific question about my outfit, I'll ask it when I post my photos. I think I assume that others do the same so I don't generally provide critical feedback if no questions are asked. But maybe I should... I wouldn't mind if you or anyone else wanted to offer it on my outfits. I guess I'd worry that someone who didn't ask for it doesn't want to hear it.

Now k/rs are a totally different story. As far as I am concerned the whole point of a k/r post is to ask for advice, to help one make the best choice.

cciele

Veteran

What Suz said

But anyhow, I don't really think "everyone only feels they can say YES." In my K/R/outfit posts, I typically get a mix of reactions and responses, and I've noticed constructive criticism in other posts too.

On the other hand, if I bother to read a post and analyze the outfit and can't find anything to critique, I might as well post a "you go girl" kind of response. Why not? I'm not going to specifically offer suggestions if I don't have any. Also, if I have a hard time articulating what I'm seeing, I might not say anything since unfortunately I don't usually have a lot of time to wordsmith a coherent response.

Echo

Veteran

ClaraT makes an excellent point. With the revision of policy to only critique when it is asked for, it is difficult to know WHAT about the outfit the poster would like feedback on.

For example, I had a roommate in college who was, essentially, a hippie. She wore long, boho skirts and peasant blouses, and tie dye, etc. One day she got dressed, turned to me and said, "Does this match?" Well, the outfit had one print on the skirt and another on the top, and this was no intentional "pattern mixing"; it was all-out pattern warfare. So I gently mentioned that perhaps a plainer top would better match the skirt. She laughed and told me she was only concerned with COLOUR, not pattern. But I clearly had no fashion sense to her, so she never asked me again!

Sometimes I feel like that happens here, where someone wants feedback about pant length, but gets opinions about what colour works for them, so specific questions are helpful if a person wants feedback.

Krista

Veteran

Yes, sometimes I wish there was less "go girl" and more frank discussion. I think, however, that there's been a lot of discussion around the type of feedback people are looking for, so the least offensive route is to offer "go girl!" responses when you're not sure what to say.

I will also offer that, just like it takes time to get to know people IRL, it takes time to get to know people on the forum. I can be quite frank in person (always diplomatic, though,) but it's hard to share that tone on the forum with people you don't know without sounding mean. It also takes time to determine how people respond to some feedback. After being here for a year, I feel like I know people a little more so how I am responding to threads is also more "me." The forum could just be going through a time of new members where everyone is finding their way of communicating and right now, the default is "go girl!" Which, in the large scheme of our crazy world, is pretty good.

Awesome discussion point, though! You always have great threads. Love that.

celia

Veteran

You are right IK, sometimes there seems to be too much cheer leading . Personally I try to answer posts with less comments and try to do it constructively. I do sound very dumb to myself when the only thing I can say is 'you go girl'.
However, since the beginning of this forum fashion and the knowledge of current trends that people in this forum have increased exponentially. Not everybody is worried about figure flattering, there are some proportions that are like science fiction to me. So sometimes it is difficult to understand if I don't like something because it doesn't look good or because I don't understand the concept.
When all this is said and I do not like to give false praise, in my opinion false praise would only come back to bite me in my curvy pear tushi.

Gaylene

Veteran

Thanks, Krista, for articulating my feelings so well. I tend to stay away from WIW threads for exactly the reasons you've mentioned.

And thank you, IK, for raising the issue of cheerleading vs. analysis. I keep deleting my remarks here to avoid offending anyone, which, I suppose speaks for itself.

MsMary

Veteran

I tend more towards "you go, Girl." I will probably continue to do that. I think there's room for all kinds of posts here.

Deborah

Veteran

As Angie says, people post here for many reasons. I personally want feedback and am very open to it as long as it's kind. I recall once someone commented (not a regular and I don't think I have ever seen them again on the forum) that they didn't like my pants:) I wasn't hurt, but I did feel she was missing the point of the post. I don't personally like everything I see on th forum, but I have come to a greater understanding and appreciation of what others like and what works for them, and that is how I 'critique'. I try not to come at it from the perspective of what I would do, but what would make it the best outfit for them. I like to encourage but I am also a very honest person. In the event that i don't understand an outfit and can see that the person is not wanting constructive criticism I either decline to comment or find one thing I can comment positively on. The depth of my comments often relate to the depth of relationship I feel I have with the poster. Seeing all the women on YLF making a thoughtful and considered effort with their style on a daily basis is worth cheering for IMVHO, particilary when I am confronted day in day and day out with women in my workplace (and no disrespect meant) who really don't care that much.

Deborah

Veteran

Ps.... Dana you have my permission to give me honest, but kind, constructive criticism on my outfit posts

Marley

Veteran

I've noticed that also, IK - but didn't have such eloquent words as you to describe how I was feeling! I agree with you completely! Thanks for starting this thread.

Astrid

Veteran

I do like constructive and positive criticism and I'm glad when I get it. But I have to say I'm also guilty of doing more of the cheerleading myself. When someone asks a direct question, like "does x work with y", it's easier for me. If there are several things in an outfit that I don't like I tend to not comment on it at all (although there are a lot of posts I miss completely so me not commenting doesn't mean anything!). That's because giving detailed criticism that's constructive and still positive isn't easy and I fear that I might hit the wrong note in my comment without realising it because I'm writing in English.

Hil

(website)

Veteran

I agree that feedback should be honest and respectful otherwise what is the point?

I always enjoy feedback because that way I am learning. I am probably a little less inclined to offer said feedback because I don't trust my judgement on others. I tend to therefore opt for a "that's gorgeous" response, but only if I think it really is! Also - I don't have a huge amount of time to post so I tend to click on titles and members who catch my eye.

Honestly - I'm not a huge fan of pandering to everyone's sensitivities - especially in a big online forum where most of us really don't know the others personally. You put yourself out here, accept what you get back. And if you're not getting back what you want, consider all the possible reasons why. My 2c worth.

Ornella

(website)

Veteran

Not much time to read everything, but I will later as it's promising to be an equal mix of super-fun and insightful.

You say
"we CAN offer constructive outfit feedback".

Agree, 101%

Isn't that exactly why this place works? This is not just big cheerleeding arena. Yes, we do do it - A LOT. But, we are honest with each other, be it good or not so good outfit. That honesty creates credibility.

Ana

(website)

Veteran

I hardly ever offer critical feedback anymore, and there are a couple of reasons why. First, in many cases everyone else is commenting that it looks nice and I wonder if I'm missing something--that maybe my "fashion eye" (or whatever you call it) is off somehow. And then Angie comments that the look is killer or great, and my suspicions about my fashion eye are confirmed! I recently realized that I have a poison eye for many of the latest trends--overly baggy boyfriend jeans with ankle-length rolled hems and flat shoes, volume on volume on volume, dark booties that have straight cut offs at the ankle with midi skirts and dresses with no tights, etc. (in most outfits with most people, not all). Anyway, you get the picture. So I'm not fashion forward, and I'm okay with that. And I think it's fine other people want to incorporate those trends into their look. I'm not trying to judge. It's just not my thing and I don't think it ever will be. So, I only comment when I think something really does look good.

The second reason is what you and a few others stated above--the shift from the implicit expectation of feedback, to specifically asking for it, and voicing sensitivities. For the record, I think that's perfectly fine. When I came back to the forum after an extended time away due to personal circumstances, I just started commenting using what I'll call "the old system" and I quickly realized that is not the way things are done anymore. I think I probably offended a few people and came off as overly opinionated, and for that I'm sorry. I do kind of miss the old system, but that doesn't mean the new one doesn't serve a purpose. I just comment less, with less of my real life "personality" injected into it, because I am worried about hurting someone's feelings. There are so many people on the forum now (again, a good thing), that I just don't have time to get to know everyone "personally" and their individual tolerance for critical commentary.

Thanks for bringing this up, IK. Honestly, I've noticed the same thing. I always love your threads and the way you can cut right to the chase!

Transcona Shannon

Veteran

I have thought long and hard about whether or not I wanted to post a comment on this thread. But I feel strongly about the issue so gonna go for it...

I am most definitely a big CHEERLEADER on the forum and proud of it I think it takes tremendous courage to post pictures of yourself (both flattering and not) and wait for others to look at them and then comment. It took me 8 months of being a Fabber before I posted my first WIW. And as much as a person's self esteem should not be linked to forum discussions, negative commentary can be crushing if you're just venturing out into the world of fashion.

There are also a gazzillion different styles on the forum and I do not feel equipped or knowledgeable enough to provide constructive feedback when an outfit looks somehow "off" to me. For example, I don't wear boho so how could I accurately critique a boho outfit that would be valid? Someone like Angie who truly understands and is educated in all fashion styles can provide that sort of constructive feedback, but I can't.

If it is a style I can relate to and something looks off, I have no problem with pointing out what I believe the issue may be and providing an alternative, but I will also always give a positive comment as well about what is working in the outfit.

I also truly appreciate each and every outfit someone took the trouble to post and honestly really like the outfits.

What can I say? I'm a "glass half full" kinda gal

Ana

(website)

Veteran

I wanted to add that I don't think IK is attacking "cheerleading" at all. Rather, she's saying that she has noticed a shift from a mix of cheerleading and critical commentary, to mostly cheerleading. And that shift puts pressure on others to simply join in the cheerleading at the expense of critical commentary (IK, please correct me if I'm wrong). I can say for myself, that is true.

Kristin L

Veteran

I totally see what your saying, IK. I don't give as much constructive feedback because I feel like I'm still learning the ropes. Like some of the others have said above, if I can't figure out what something looks off, I hate to say somethings off, but not be able to give anything further.

But, as some of us newer members (and new veterans) get more comfortable looking a photos and giving opinions, I think we will.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Yes, Ana. I 100% agree with your last comment, and thanks for bringing it up. We all know - and Dana too of course - that cheerleading is important. It is part of what makes people feel comfortable on the YLF forum, and sets part of the happy and encouraging tone.

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