Off the top of my head: approachable but not dull, thoughtful, interesting, witty yet kind. Jeez, that's a lot to ask from a set of clothes!

Part of the tension with all this, i think, is that no matter how you plan your wardrobe people can take things from it that you didn't intend and perhaps don't like. That's natural since we're all different people and have different aesthetic preferences, not to mention all the societal expectations, ever changing, about clothes and the presentation of our bodies in public. But it means that nothing is simple - even language is not precise in that mathematical way, and clothes certainly aren't.

Thank you, Shiny! I was thinking how much I loved your answer too, for a couple of reasons. First, because I was a SAHM for 11 years, and it was the most difficult and challenging thing I have ever done. Secondly, because one day I so hope to be bold enough to steal your phrase in response to the "what do you do...?" question: I BUY AWESOME SHOES BECAUSE THAT MAKES ME FEEL ALIVE!!

What a fascinating thread! At the risk of sounding like an old crank (which I am a bit) I do not want to look too approachable in my clothing. I live in a very forthcoming, intimate, open society and I don't actually want to be approached casually with all sorts of questions, advice or comments. Alas it still happens. Apart from that I enjoy appearing interesting, like I don't follow the crowd, and with a point of view. I am very flattered if told I am look elegant once in a while. I used to be more concerned with external markers of being in the know, until I realized nobody I saw knew the know - myself included!

Ok. The funny thing is that my shoe obsession has netted me some net gain. I now have a friend with a boat, which is a precious commodity in our short Seattle summers. They chose to strike up a conversation with me because of my shoes.
Those that know me in reality, they know that I'm just as obsessed with wine as I am with shoes. And just as opinionated.

Rabbit, you helped me clarify what I couldn't put into words. I want to feel comfortable in what I'm wearing, so that I can focus on the outer -- other people -- what's going on -- rather than the inner. Futzing and fidgeting because my waistband is too tight or not quite right in some way. That pulls me too far inward and then I'm totally missing out on what's going on outside, which is far more interesting.

I just want to be present. In my clothes -- so I can also be in my conversations.

Clothes are kind of the.. boundary.. are they not? Between inner and outer, self and other/self.

Some may tease about my interest in fashion and say it's frivolous... but man it really IS deep. LOL.

This is fascinating. For me, when I moved to Oklahoma, the way I dressed changed drastically. Suddenly it was important to project a message of "I am not threatening, please ignore me." This is still very important to me, simply because it sucks to not get served in a restaurant, followed in a store to make sure I don't steal, or just to get hassled for looking Different or Foreign or just Other. Yes these things happen to me regularly in Oklahoma, and they did not when I lived abroad, or in California. Not everyday, but often enough that they are a genuine concern. So the last thing I want to project is that I'm unique or exotic. And yet my tastes actually tend towards unique and exotic clothing and accessories.

I would love to leave OK and move back to a more cosmopolitan place, where I could blend into the background and wear whatever the eff I want. But being in OK also reminds me how far we have to come, and how I took my privilege for granted for many years.

This is why I love YLF--it's not just fashion or trends for fashion's sake. It's about the interior self.

I can't really say what kind of message I'm trying to convey with my dressing yet...because I'm still trying to figure *myself* out! I don't really know who I am. I didn't have a childhood where I could express myself and be myself, and I am learning how to do those things now. Dressing plays a large part in that discovery of my inner self.

I have switched through several style personas so far and have not settled on one yet. But I am learning about myself in the process. It will just take a while. :^)

What a thought provoking thread!

I work in a male dominated environment where most of my colleagues are older than me. I want my work clothes to reflect that I am focused, reliable and delivering excellent results and service. I hope I have achieved this without sacrificing femininity.

I guess the message I have been subconsciously trying to convey with my casual/non-work wardrobe is 'Here I am!'. Leo...... (Shrugging shoulders and shaking head).

Wowsa! When I read Annagybe's first post on the thread, I felt like I was hit by a ton of bricks. It is a challenge not to end up in a very dark place when one works daily with tragedy, grief and despair. Beauty is my antidote. Outside of work I can garden, make music, keep a beautiful home. To keep my spirits up at work, I dress accordingly. The harder I know my day will be, the more I try to use colour. Since Christmas, my red shoes have been getting a real workout!

So I guess the story I try to tell with my clothes is that I'm vibrant, healthy, and engaged in life!

If you don't have the same cultural basis, you can misread someone utterly. For example, in Austin many perfectly nice people have neck tattoos. (Like the receptionist at my doctor's office.) My ingrained cultural norm is that this is a prison gang thing, and in NYC it made me take a different street. It doesn't seem to have the same meaning in Austin, but I am still leery of it. much as I am of some other, often associated clothing looks. It's definitely a certain subtype in Texas. Put those looks together, and I am drawn to certain conclusions about that person's educational, financial, and social background. However, put that same person in a suit, or goth gear, or remove the neck tattoo... Different impression entirely. And as much as I may be misreading their look, I'm quite sure they often misread mine. It's inevitable.

This is fascinating. I was a CPA for many years, and in my work life I wanted to come across as intelligent, capable, trustworthy and honest. I think I was successful.

For the past decade I haven't had a job. I have been volunteering for several causes I believe in. One of them requires me to go to court twice a year. I try to come across much the same as in my work life. I am also interacting with vulnerable at risk children. With them, I try to look approachable. I want to still be me, just emphasizing different facets of the real me. With my newly grey hair, I'm generally taken seriously and trusted.

I loved MaryK's remark,"You will underestimate me at your peril!"

What a great question that has prompted a lot of great replies!

I think in my style, now that I am thinking about it for the first time ever! , I am trying to convey that I am...clean, organized, but not square. Cool, laid back, but not too cheap. Kinda wierd, its easier to say what I'm NOT trying to convey: that I wear cheap quality, or that I'm some kind of bimbo fashion slave. Hm. I think I need to think a little more about this...

Shiny - the PC way to as the question of profession in my area is "Do you work outside the home?" I think this is a pretty good way to get it done, I mean we all work inside the home no matter what else we may do!! I like your questions too? I remember debating the great "Why" questions in college at night with my roommate. I think after nights of discussion all we could boil life down to was "It is..."
Ms Maven - I'm so sorry. I sounds like things are very rough at you end and that you are dealing with a huge amount of stress. Something nothing to do but hunker down, pull your head into your shell and get through it. Just wanted to wish you good things and I hope life calms down to a quieter less hectic pitch. Good luck on "youtube" it is the place to see and be seen! Transitions are always challenging but hopefully they will bring great rewards. You just have to give yourself permission to need time to figure out who you are and how you want to be seen in this new role!! Wishing you every bit of good luck and good things!!
Sarah - I really agree with your point. Being underestimated can offer great tactical advantages in situations. People are less guarded and defensive. When you need info or assistance, it is highly advantageous. Then when you want to play hard ball you hit them with your smarts!
Rabbit - a fellow scorpio!! Yes, we contain multitudes. We are many and all simultaneously. Different outfits simply show off different facets of ourselves. I think for me, I don't want to be pigeon holed. I don't deliberately not wear what others wear but I will often wear what I like even if it varies from the typical in my area. I also like to observe so I understand what you mean about dressing for this role but if the clothes are right they often allow you to do both. "God is in the details" that what may look quiet on first glance has more depth and nuance on deeper inspection. I thin that's how I apply "A Pattern Language" to clothing. Also Rabbit, Iif you have not read Sarah Susanka's "The not so small house" that's where I heard of APL but her philosophy could be applied to dress too. Very interesting concepts!

Heavens! This is one of those fabulous threads where one needs to sit down with a cuppa and a slice of cake whilst reading all the replies Thanks for starting it Gryffin. So far I haven't been able to read all; the fab answers, just a dip in here and there so I will try to reply myself then pop back later for a peruse.

So, the message I strive to covey. Well, I'm not sure I convey what I want all the time but ideally I want to appear friendly, stylish, a lover of colour, polished, feminine but not girly. Oh, and I want my clothes to make me feel comfortable otherwise I'm cranky.

I've also been thinking about the fact that I sew and create and I think I want to inject more creativity into my outfits, by which I don't mean just the fact that I created some of the components of an outfit, I want more uniqueness I think. Edgy is something I aspire to also, but compared to some of the edgy ladies on here it would be a tall order so it will have to be edgy done my way. Something to work on eh?

Thanks for boost and book reco Gryffin! I will check it out for sure!

I don't really think about "conveying" a message. It took me a while to understand this whole concept in general. I am not at all artistic, so the thought of "expression" by any means other than word was really shocking to me when I first joined YLF. I am also starting to get art more, in my own way. LOL With that said I love clothes and fabric and color ( Just not always in my clothes ). That love comes from my mom who was a seamstress.

Your post really touched me because I thought about how most of my life I have taken care of or felt responsible for someone else. My brain damaged sister who is slightly older. I never really thought too much in terms of "me" on any really deep level. It was all about "her"...this was my own child brain, not my parents. In fact, if she would want me to avoid colors or clothes that she liked, I did it to make her happy. When we were about 9 and 10, she declared that HER color would be pink, so I had to wear purple. LOL !!! Even today, as we plan for a vacation and I am very careful not to get something that she might like so that she can have it ( I pick out her stuff ) . Thankfully, we don't have a lot of the same tastes now ! Phew.

Laura - that's a really good point that no matter how you think through your outfit people will perceive it in different ways than it was meant. I think you've hit the nail on the head comparing it to language. I strive to be very clear when I write but sometime people take my words and twist them in a way that was never intended. It's tough. We are our own little universe. We have our own language and understanding of meaning it's often tough to get that message across to others especially when they have a different reference frame. Maybe the best we can hope is to be ourselves and hope that that is really enough!! Big challenge!
Shevia - I thing many of us use our clothing as armor. I know that i do. I do like a certain amount of formality. I want to choose the level of intimacy and my clothing plays in to that. Nothing wrong with using your outfit to clue people in to how you want to be perceived and treated! They did a nice study with elderly people they had them go in to a store with their usual clothing. Then they dressed them in nice slacks, shirts, blazer, good shoes, styled hair. The level of service, attention, and respect when well dressed compared to baseline was reallyunbelievable.
Anna - wow, that's almost a "glass slipper" style story!! Just proving you never know who you are going to meet. Like coco chanels quip on never knowing when you are going to have a date with destiny so you might as well fix yourself up a bit so you will look as good for destiny as possible!
Shiny - I think you're saying that you want your dress to be so physically and psychologically and socially perfect that the outfit literally vanishes and there is only you.
MuseumGal - who you live with a tough crowd. That must be a very homogenized area. I can see why you want to lie low, but it would be difficult not to resent it. But as you say the consequences are too great and too disconcerting to make a statement. Good luck. Hard choices but stay safe. That's the most important thing!!
Gigi - that sounds wonderful. Life truly is journey. You don't need to lock yourself in. You need to literally see what fits and feels like you. Plus you could not be in a better place to do it!!
Fuzzy - I definitely think clothes can help you be perceived as professional and competent. You have such a great look, very refined, elegant, but totally unfussy but the fantastic fit still reads feminine but no nonsense and not one to be ignored. Your casual style what I've seen totally fab!
Runcarla - what a wonderful idea. To wear color to make you happy!! I love the idea of red shoes. I wore red shoes and had a red bag for a year it was very fun. I felt like Dorothy, I could click my heels together and be back in kansas. I am glad that works for you to keep your spirits supported in dark times!!

IK - you are right different areas have cultural norms and they may not jive with our preconceived notions. It's very challenging being in a new area. I think the only practical thing is to try and push those thoughts away until we get to know the individuals involved. But I would probably cross the street too and err on the side of caution in ambiguous situations. Tough tough problem. Lots to think about and really good that you brought that up.
JAileen - I love MK's line too! But being underestimated can be a huge tactical advantage too!! That would be fascinating if we could actually figure out how kids perceive us and what look would make us most approachable and trustworthy. That would be a worthy task. I wonder if anyone has done a study on this or researched this. That would be a very interesting read!
VernieJane - you crack me up!! I think we'd all like to be seen as cool and definitely not want to be seen as cheap!! Can't wait to hear further insights from you!!
Diane - that's a good point and not limited to you - uncomfortable clothing would make us all cranky. I think we need to expand that to shoes. I like that Chanel quote, "Luxury must be comfortable, otherwise it is not luxury." I definitely agree with that. Diane I have to tell you I wait breathlessly to see where your search for unique and edge takes you in your sewing. You are so gifted, I am sure whatever you make with be totally splendid!!
Isabel - you are a remarkable person to have taken care of you sister so tenderly from such a young age. I went to a seminar at "The Institutes for the Achievement of Human Potential" in Phil,Pa.. Their work began helping brain injured children but they found that the siblings of these children learned faster. They told one story, it was a conversation between an arch angel and god about who to give a brain injured child to. God wanted the child to be given to this extraordinary kind, gentle, amazing talented and wonderful woman. The Angel disagreed. He thought it was unfair that this woman would not reach her potential since she would have to care for this child. God explained that only she, with her extraordinary gifts, could bring out all the child's potential and then he further explained that in turn this child would make this woman appreciate every tiny milestone, the wonder of the tinest triumph, each smile, every step - she would never take life for granted again. The child would be her greatest work, her greatest miracle. The Angel then understood and he asked God what angel he should assign to watch over and help the woman. God smiled and said that the Arch angel didn't need to assign anyone, he only needed to give the woman a mirror. I think we need to give you a mirror, Isabel. You are clearly your sister's angel.

What a fascinating thread! I loved reading it, and hats off you to Gryffin for replying so thoroughly to everyone.

I spend most of my time at home, so my messages are mainly to myself. I have health issues that limit the choices I'm able to make in life, and how much I'm able to accomplish. Dressing the way that I do somehow gives me extra inner strength and reminds me to find joy and cheer in the little things if I can't manage the big ones! Thanks to very affordable secondhand shopping, my closet & style is an area I can exercise more control over too, which is nice.

I would love to live in a little cottage that was somehow simultaneously in a woodland clearing or small country farm & in a cosy urban neighbourhood filled with cafes and farmer's markets and a big park and a library close by. I'm working on getting closer to the latter dream at least, but in the meantime, I 'dress for the part,' as it were. My style makes me smile, which is probably the primary message I want to convey!

When I dress for other people's perceptions, it's usually context-specific, so I'm aiming for certain adjectives that vary depending on the situation. But generally, when others see my clothes, I hope they see someone who's smart/intellectual, not mainstream (there must be a more elegant way to phrase that), and approachable (I enjoy getting to know people when I'm out and about). Oh and someone who pays attention to details, enjoys nature & tries to find beauty in life.

E - like Runcarla, it's wonderful how you dress to keep your spirits up. You create another world in your outifts. You and they belong in a better time a gentler and more civilized place. Isn't it a shame that "Austenland" is just fiction but your love of beauty, the sensuous textures of your fabrics, your eye for detail, craftsmanship, the elegant and whimsical accessories by turn - you transport us to the world of "A litte princess," "anne of green gables" with her puff sleeves, you are in turn Titania, Queen of the Fairies, a close friend of Amelia Peabody's (Please tell me you've read them!!), Captain Margaret in Sense and Senseability it's so enthralling! And of course, Anne Elliot, I can almost hear you saying "

“My idea of good company, Mr. Elliot, is the company of clever, well-informed people, who have a great deal of conversation; that is what I call good company.”

“You are mistaken,” said he gently; “that is not good company; that is the best.

I think you capture all of your descriptors perfectly. Each outfit shows taste, wit, and a love beauty and incredible charm! And you deserve the best company to share them with!!

Thank you Gryffin! I love Austen & Anne is probably my favourite of her heroines, so that passage is fabulous (oddly enough though I feel no desire for something a la Austenland). I've read the first of the Amelia Peabody books; I should try the second one of these days. Have you read Laurie King's Mary Russell series? It's beyond fabulous if you haven't: the first is The Beekeeper's Apprentice.

I love reading classics/historical fiction, but I'm also aware that the British Empire was built on the backs of subjugated people in other countries, not to mention the hopelessness of their own impoverished people/lack of any social security net & women's complete lack of legal standing! So I don't think of the past as gentler or more civilised, just different. There are aspects of the past that really appeal to me, so I like to look to the good things about it but also keep my awareness of the bad things too. And I'm very grateful to be living in the time period that I am, even if I dream of an even better future. (I hope none of that sounded harsh or strident. My social justice interests are as strong as my historical ones; in fact, much of my favourite nonfiction reading is where the two intersect!)

Gryffin, your post touched me so much thank you ! My sister has actually enriched my life in so many ways that none can imagine. It is kinda fun to hang out with Peter Pan . : ) If it weren't for her I never would have discovered Bon Jovi !

I am by any means an angel. I get frustrated and angry many times. But I love her and she is all I have ( no other siblings ). We make it work !!

E - thank you for the recommendations! I have not read them. I am so in need of a wonder new read!! E, so insightful. Guilty as charged. I do tend to romanticize the past. I get lost in the fiction and must remember that that is exactly what it is. Point taken. Yet, I am grateful for it. After all what hope is there for the world if we can't imagine a better one? But hope should always be tempered with reality. You are never strident E, you are clear sighted but remain unjaded, that is rare and wonderful!
Isabel - I can tell from how you write about your sister how much you love her and how precious she is to you. I would imagine your "Peter Pan" sees all the wonder in the world that most of us tend to loose.
How can she not adore someone who wears purple for her!! I cannot imagine a more special bond than you seem to have. I wish you both every joy ( but also wishing you a little time to be "you " too!!)

This has been such a fascinating read! I can't remember the last time I've been asked, "What do you do?", but then most of the new people I meet I meet at church and I think the church culture frowns at that. The question to newcomers is mostly, "What brings you here today?" And ummm, most people don't peg me as an attorney, so my clothing obviously doesn't telegraph that message!

I sorta kinda tone it down when I work in a contract office or meet prospective clients. I will still wear booties and maybe colored tights for a column of color but will be less likely to wear wild color combos. I feel my gray hair imparts a bit of gravitas, but DD20 says of some of my sartorial choices, "Oh, Mom, you're such a rebel!"

I'm well within the Age of Invisibility, and I don't want to be conspicuous (most of the time) but I don't want to be invisible either. I want to look put-together but not necessarily polished because I have a bit of RATE going on. Quirky/arty can be okay. And powerful. To me, that means a bit of androgyny. I'm too short to be masculine; it would just look like a kid wearing her father's clothing so boyish will have to do! And, dang! My new more feminine hairstyle with bangs combined with my round face look cute, and this 60+ year old woman doesn't want to do cute beyond polka dots, thank you. Umm, maybe that's why I like my studded leather fingerless gloves so much. And bada$$ footwear that my feet really can't handle. . .

So interesting, especially for those who post lots of WIW's.

I would like to convey no nonsense, control, nod to trend, approachable, organic, and understated elegance.

@annagybe- wow your comment about having your career define you really hit me hard. I took 2.5 years off of work after my first child was born. Oh man I struggled with SAHM title or the lovely 'just a mom'. I guess your comment really brought home the idea that no matter who you are or what your situation is we all want to be seen for WHO we are. Titles are just that titles. Of course, like others, I think anyone with a shoe collection like yours is going to be pretty darn interesting and fun

Don't know how I missed this thread....

I've written on this topic a lot on the forum so I'm going to challenge myself to be brief right now. For me, my choices in clothes have a lot to do with *adjusting* the image I have learned I project without trying. I project it very strongly and I was unaware of it for many years, because it was very different from how I thought of myself.

Put simply, and borrowing from MaryK, I have learned I don't have to worry about people underestimating me. Ug, that sounds so bad. I have also learned it doesn't work at all to try to seem insignificant. So with my clothes I'm saying "Yes but...." Yes, but I'm also creative, flexible, and understanding. Yes, but you can trust me. Yes, but we can laugh together.

So that is what I'm trying to say with my clothes.

Hmmm… much to think about here. Thank you Gryffin for the thought-provoking thread! I no longer have the kind of job or lifestyle or locale where I need to give a lot of thought to "what image do I project?" And, "how can I present myself so I accomplish my goals?" If I were still in the corporate world, I would be thinking along these lines. But my life is so different now.

For me, clothes are either functional or fun. Functional when I have a job to do. Fun every other single moment. Fashion is my hobby, my passion. I love following trends! I don't feel the need to develop my own style that is to a degree, impervious to trends. It is not a point of pride to me. Although maybe I will get there one day, a uniform, and if I do it will be because it is easy. But for now, still at my age, I don't mind chasing the latest trend and having a blast doing it. And not minding being the fool for it. Angie calls me Queen Farm Fashionista and I would like to egotistically add "Fearless" before that, 'cause I'm just getting to the age where I say: what others think of me is none of my business.

So -- in summary, I try not to attach any judgement to the way people dress (although I'm sure I do). I wait until they open their mouths to do that. O_o

Griffin I started typing a response yesterday and lost it! Back now after a kids party so not sure just how coherent I will be. Lol

"Black "gets" me on so many levels - not just flattering my complexion, but on emotional levels which express my message. Black provides the negative space that I can fill. It embodies the qualities of mystery, quietness, intelligence, formality, and simplicity. It is powerful and can be conservative, edgy, avant garde or elegant in turn. These qualities are the message I wish to convey - these things are me." - I could have writ tent his but I a a sure not as articulately:)

I am very intentional when it comes to dressing in a way that conveys a message about who I am. It's important to me to be authentic. I have spent too much time trying to "fit in" . I am over that! I am who I am and I dress in a way that hopefully reflects that I am a confident person who is comfortable with herself. Often i find myself sitting in a board meeting with a completely different perspective to my colleagues, in the same way I often find myself dressed a little differently to my peer group and friends.

I think I may need to think on this more but this would be my initial response.

Fantastic question! Griffin, and Fabbers, you are women of great depth. Anyone who thinks fashion is frivolous needs to spend some time here Ion the forum;)

Wow, it took a while to read this conversation, but it was so worth it. Hats off especially to gryffin for the beautiful opening post and for the energy and thoughtfulness to follow every ramification! You're amazing, really, you all are.
I always thought I dress for myself and myself only, but this thread opened a world of self analysis and I am a little scared. I dress to please my self, but I also aim to keep my husband attracted to me. And I want my children to think they have a pretty, refined, fun mom. They are my primary audience and I want them to love me
Now, my message to the rest of the world is more complicated. I want to look like I can take care of myself and I am comfortable with myself, but I also want to be respected, and I am afraid I am failing at this. This feeling was probably intensified by an unpleasant incident that involved the horrible behaviour of a couple of men last week on a train, but it was there even earlier. I am probably going through some growth and fashion is helping me... I hope! I want to look more authoritative and not to be trifled with, and I don't want to look like "prey" to aggressive males anymore because I'm fed up with it. But how to accomplish this and keep looking good, I still don't know

Fascinating thread, brilliant responses! I totally resonate with Angie's "strict yet soft" response - that is part of how I wish to convey my work (teacher) persona. The other is "conservative yet creative." I like to be creative, but I try to keep trendy elements to a minimum for work as I don't want it to be a distraction with my students. For example, I was working with a student last year at the high school and during the middle of my conference with them on their Macbeth essay they responded, "I really like your shoes!" Now that I'm back in elementary school, even my second graders notice. I've learned to say, "Thank you, I like what you're wearing too. Now let's get back to our reading."

I like to incorporate creativity into the way I dress outside of work by attempting to add trendier, edgier, and fashion forward pieces. I like things with juxtaposition - leather/lace, plaid/pearls, etc. I am, after all, a girly girl but an adrenaline junkie (I love roller coasters) so it seems natural to want to wear pretty skirts and still add a bit of edge to my outfits.

Most of all, for work I want to convey "I know where I'm headed" and with my students - "I know how to get you where you need to be," and above all else, for work or not, "Let's have fun getting there!"