"Urban" vs. "city": terminology and semantics

catgirl

In reflecting more on UWP and the various derivatives, I started wondering if certain styles would be more aptly described as "city". Like Zap: a Sleek City Princess?

Urban, to me, implies a bit more RATEness, grit and decay (like Urban Decay) - the undercover grafitti artist or night vigilante out on the streets.

City is more polished and refined - still streetwise but with a bit of femme fatale glam.

Does this resonate with anyone else? It's kind of a fun distinction in my mind.

13 years ago

General

32 replies

Latest reply was from Mamapicklejuice

MNsara

Veteran

You could be onto something. . .but I'm interested on what comes up here! Especially since I think I identify with the SUPs -- or aspire to identify with them

And you thought I have some UWP lurking in my style too.

Great question!!

13 years ago

ManidipaM

Veteran

Excellent point! I think I have to agree.

13 years ago

Diana

Veteran

Agreed. Urban is downtown, city is uptown.

13 years ago

Anonymous

ummm... well, I don't identify much with uptown, if that's what conveyed with "city". There is a element of snobbiness and stuffiness I don't like. I think I am good with urban, for now. I think Bunny from SATC when I think Uptown.
Urban does not mean RATE in my book.

ETA: What you are describing as urban is "grunge" to me. I thought that was the warrior element on UWP.

13 years ago

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Splitting hairs :). 100% with Zap.

Urban depends on *where* you are too. Hong Kong, Tokyo, Taiwan, Zurich, Milan, Den Haag and Singapore Urban - very polished. London and Paris - less polished and more grunge. Amsterdam and NYC both polished and RATE.

13 years ago

Vix

Veteran

As there are cities other than New York, I don't think the uptown/downtown variable is much use.

As far as city vs urban, I think the distinction is going to be in the mind of the beholder.

Some cities teem more with the disadvantaged and others with the professional class; they may have highrises filled with luxury and/or those filled with crime; they can hide, ignore, eradicate, or celebrate their grittier areas; and they can be built adjacent to warm beaches or busy ports.

I'd say aside from figuring which is the better personal fit for the one seeking self-definition, the rhythm of the word + modifiers is probably more important than which word is used.

13 years ago

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Ahem. <coughs>

Just because UWP was the first term coined here, does not mean that the other categories are DERIVATIVE.

Signed,

An Urban Prince

who prefers to keep it that way. UP is so much catchier than CP.

13 years ago

catgirl

Veteran

I'm only splitting hairs for fun! I think city can be downtown too, in the NY sense. It's more that while I feel my style is urban I don't feel it is city in the sense that word conveys to me. I think Vix is right about the "ring" of the words together. "City Warrior Princess" doesn't convey the same sensibility in my mind, so they are not interchangeable words. City does not convey post-apocalyptic or Matric or any of those connotations for me. That's what I was getting at - and yes, it could very well be subjective in the mind of the beholder!

13 years ago

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

What Suz said.

13 years ago

catgirl

Veteran

I don't mean derivative in that sense, Suz! I just mean the play on words that arose from that thread, not the styles themselves.

Goodness, maybe I should just shush up.

13 years ago

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

I consider myself urban but not RATE.

13 years ago

Anonymous

I think you should stick to whatever usefulness you get from the word urban, in line with what Vix and Suz said
...and no, we are not giving you a hard time.... we still love you to pieces lol..

13 years ago

jenanded

Veteran

yep depends where you live! no do you want me to start on describing years by season... in fashion that works because it denotes weather so YLF is in the clear, but describing months by seasons is very Nthn Hemisphere and patronises the rest of the world. So OFF my OT rant, I can live with whichever works for where you live BTW, the world has not far passed the first time in history that more of the population lives in urban rather than rural areas so... We need to dress accordingly lol!

13 years ago

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

One thing I've noticed about you and Rae is your obsession with gritty and urban almost violence ridden imagery. Rae even mentioned a bar-fight in one of her descriptors. Maybe it's because I work in a urban, public trauma hospital but I see nothing fashionable in some of your descriptors. I see homelessness, drug abuse and violence, not cool in my world.

13 years ago

catgirl

Veteran

Wow, Anna, I had to log back in to respond to that. I am firmly anti violence, anti guns, anti war. I don't even let my son play violent video games or watch movies like Avatar at his age.

I don't think fantasy inspiration for style means I think violence is cool, any more than bombshell style implies that one is a woman of loose morals. Given what Rae just went through I will let her speak for herself; I am only speaking for me here.

13 years ago

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

I had no idea, based on a lot of previous descriptors. Even in this thread you used the term vigilante. I guess it's all down to perceptions.

13 years ago

catgirl

Veteran

Well, that is interesting. Am I somehow conveying that I am a paranoid fringe lunatic war mongering gun nut here? I think you all know I am a 47 year old mom, wife, lawyer and rock climber with an overactive imagination. I have not assumed that the more classic dressers here are staid, proper, conservative types in personality. I'm actually a little stunned at what it means if that's what you'd think and would like to hear from others.

13 years ago

Anonymous

The only thing I'm puzzled about is what is it about styles like mine, that made you go thru the exercise of finding another word you can't relate to? However, that's minutia and I can understand why. If you are alpha and I'm omega, we cannot possibly have anything in common, I get it, plus it is all in the name of fun and endless introspection. I just hope that those who do not identify with my style, will still find usefulness in my commentary. If not, I am wasting my time. big. time.

Are you a crazy, gun blazing nut? No way!!!!! Now, that's crazy.
I think we are all getting too carried away.

13 years ago

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Una, I hope you didn't think I'd really taken offence; I was teasing (and actually laughing at myself).

In fact, while it *might* be splitting hairs, as Angie says, that's what we wordy types love so dearly to do, and I hear what you are saying about a distinction between city and urban. At least in the *sound* of the words, if not the actual denotation.

I don't see you as a paranoid fringe lunatic war mongering gun nut, no. I see you as somebody who enjoys a bit of fantasy in her dress....but also practicality, as many of your choices actually suit the life you live. Yes, they can be awkward for the courtroom, but they are pretty useful for other parts of your life. (Boots, especially).

But it IS an interesting problem. YLF is a self-contained world - we know each other and each other's styles in a way that others don't. One of the reason classic dressers sometimes worry is that they fear they will be taken as boring and insipid people...and the fact is, sometimes they ARE, (ETA sometimes they are taken as boring and insipid) unless they can master the style completely. I don't think your clothing signals to the world that you are a vigilante....but maybe you need better words to describe your style aspirations than that?

13 years ago

catgirl

Veteran

Zap, what got me thinking about it was the whole idea of the commonalities in style monikers - so we both have Urban (and Princess!) in common as a descriptor, and so what is the overlap between you and me there? Of course I'm not trying to redefine you or coopt your descriptor... I was just pondering out loud. Like "Sex and the City" would not be the same show if it were "Sex and the Urban Setting". I enjoy pondering words, but perhaps the tongue in cheekiness of my posts does not always come through! I love you and everything you have to say as well as your style!

Suz, no offense taken! I am wondering if there is a disconnect in my style aspirations or if it's just that we are all one dimensional here. Words and photos don't and can't convey the whole person, nor do we all share everything here... I spent the morning in my PJs making meatballs - where is that on my Pinterest board?

13 years ago

Anonymous

Wha? You don't have a meatball board? LOL
Come on .... Let's all hug it out!
Love you girls

13 years ago

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

I've been on some version of the internet since the mid nineties. In fact I was on a board called alt.fashion. Unfortunately you are the sum of your words online. I'm very terse online, probably brusque and maybe even a little cold. I've surprised YLF members that I've met in person. I think I even surprised Angie.

13 years ago

Gaylene

Veteran

Wow, words do inspire passion, even ones that are nothing more than a light-hearted way of describing our style goals-- although I'm loving the image of Una as "paranoid fringe lunatic war mongering gun nut" in cute jammies hurling meatballs at anyone in her path.

13 years ago

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

Una, please don't stop with your musing threads, and don't forget you are one the important YLF term creators - isn't poison eye yours too? Splitting hairs is part of the package. FWIW, it never occurred to me that you are anything but a peace loving human being with a great imagination.

13 years ago

Isabel

Veteran

I am really lovin' the idea of urban chic androgynous royalty..... in all seriousness, I LOVE the whole prince bit. Both because I love The Little Prince and the singer Prince ( talk about defining "cool" )

Suz, maybe you should be the urban sartorial artist formerly known as Prince...?

13 years ago

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Ok, keep in mind I'm from the city that produced "The Wire" and "Homicide: Life on the Street" (and yeah, Frank Zappa and John Waters, but that's another story for another day), but I do perceive a little difference between the words "city" and "urban." "Urban" does tend to get used to convey a slightly grittier atmosphere. "City" as a term can seem more to be a bit more romantic, gentrified, polished, historic, commerce-based, etc. I guess the question then is, how does that apply to style? How specific does each one of us want to get?

Yeah, this could definitely be splitting hairs, but I understand what you were getting at, Una.

13 years ago

ManidipaM

Veteran

We may be splitting hairs here --- and I so agree with Janet's comment on the differing connotations (I see 'city' as more 'urbane' than 'urban') --- but isn't that exactly the same as the split between 'country' and 'rustic' we did on Astrid's thread, Angie?

I think the words may mean *broadly* the same thing but there's a subtle difference of flavour. (This actually reminds me of the point I was making --- Urban is not the opposite of Country, so much as the opposite of Rustic; it is City that is the opposite of Country in my head. And no, it isn't just because of the difference between adjectives and nouns either!)

@Gaylene: Thank you for that image of Una as Meatball-Slinging UWP I laughed to hard I think I woke the baby up!

Re: the difference between style/aesthetic choice and life choices, may I point out --- which is what Una's saying with the meatballs! --- that the descriptors we're using are for our style *inspiration* and not for our 'selves', so to speak? My style is NOT going to suggest to any of you, I suspect, that I devour a paranormal romance or YA fantasy or sci-fi tome each and every day. It's not in my clothing style at all, though that sounds like UWP would be a natural fit! I may be a wordsmith with a weakness for the history of print and bookmaking who's searching high and low for a type-sorting tray, but you aren't going to see me in banded-sleeve shirt and inky cuffs anytime soon; nor will you see me in a Martha-style 'domestic goddess' retro dress and apron, for all the time I spend on food. On the other hand, Angie labelled me Folksy; I would *hate* living in the Indian countryside or visiting truly rustic places, from where my inspiration emanates, though.

Anna, you may be as zesty as mint in real life, but I seriously don't think you're a kick-boxer because you favour spike-studded shoes! On the other hand, scrubs are not the be-all and end-all of your style, though they're what you wear most. Surely there's a distinction between what you enjoy wearing and what you enjoy thinking/doing? Isn't that the whole point of bucking your environmental norm, something so oft discussed on YLF?

13 years ago

catgirl

Veteran

Janet and Mani, thanks for the validation. I guess to me different words are much like the different tones in colors. To some, orange-red and blue-red may be the same thing (my DH!), but to others, they have a completely different vibe. That's what I was getting at with the distinction between city and urban. Or as was pointed out, with Astrid's rustic vs. country distinction. Obviously it's a very subjective thing.

I was going to let this thread die, but I didn't want to leave the last commenters unacknowledged.

And yes, I'm a meatball-slinger, not a gunslinger!

13 years ago

JulieJohn

Veteran

I call for a calming circle. Sisters?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsQyfbQTLLg

13 years ago

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