Rachylou! LP and jill, too. Varies so drastically from region to region, though, that it's also not a meaningful term.

It's true: the thread I mentioned developed as a lovely and inclusive response. In response, though, to an original post I found thoroughly unempathic, judgmental, and unreflected.

I'm glad that the many well-thought-out comments were left standing. HOWEVER, it could have been far less costly and cortisol boosting, had the discussion stemmed from an authentically learning-oriented original post. And no, I don't mean learning-oriented in the all-too-frequent systemically-privileged person's entitled "so educate me!" retort to being called out, in which they place additional burden on the person they've offended. "How else are people supposed to learn" doesn't ring true in my experience. There are 101-FAQs all over the internet, good starting points for self-education, if someone truly wants to learn. There are real people participating here, people with real lived experiences and struggles and hard-earned wisdom. And there are respectful, humble ways of inviting them to share that.

I'm glad for the glimpse into the forum's raison d'être, provided by the OP never being required to apologize or, perhaps more importantly, to address any of the insightful questions raised. It is what it is.

There's most certainly a lot of inclusiveness and nuanced observations by many members. It's just not anything I'd expect from the site itself, structurally or systemically. Isabel's request certainly isn't too advanced for members here who would be interested in that, in a different setting. This just isn't that setting, in my observation and experience.

So, I think there is a place on here that explains some of the commonly used acronyms but I can never remember where to find them. And I have the same problems finding the help section. Maybe they could be posted somewhere that is more intuitive? Could someone remind me where each is?

The types of labels I had in mind originally were ones that have a negative meaning only and imply undesirable qualities only. Someone might want a jacket that's more "glam" or "rocker" but they're not likely to be on the lookout for something more "chav".

But reading the responses I DO think that optimum would be originally worded descriptions. Having grown up in New England I thought I knew what "preppy" was but in fact a visit to another site was kind of an eye opener, even that has regional variations.

Concise might be an even better time saver than a label.

Ok. This comment sounded a little "out of place" to me when it comes to YLF forum. I don't see people talking about types in a mean or excluding way around here. Quite the opposite. People here are beyond kind and supportive to each other and when they use regional/cultural-subjective references, even if you are not in the mood for some Googling, there is always someone willing to explain it, all you need to do is ask. I find this very interesting actually. It's a very good opportunity to learn about other cultures, so I hope everyone keeps using them.

Isabel, I think I hear you but I just think it gets really complicated. " preppy" to some people is very undesirable. I also recall trying to have discussions on whether " frumpy" ( which relates part of my forum " handle") or twee or matronly or dowdy and so forth should not be used as imagery shortcuts. Best to discuss and let breathe, IMO.

What's the "fat hating" thread?

Smittie I missed the fat hating thread too. I am not sure how to find it.

Smittie -- this
https://youlookfab.com/welookf.....-mentality

Isabel -- won't you please tell us what NQJL means?

Well now I am amused to ask what a "junior league" is anyway, if NQJL might mean Not Quite Junior League? In my country NZ we have a sport called rugby league which is not quite the same as the better known rugby ( which is really rugby union!) Confused much?
And for someone who asked about the YLF acronyms, I think you go to the home page and it might be under About or something, I remember it was at the bottom of a page on my desktop computer. Also, a HEWI is a highly elusive wardrobe item.

Found it: go to the blog home page, at the bottom of it click About, and to the side it has a list of acronyms you can click on.https://youlookfab.com/backsta...../acronyms/
Hope that helps.

Jenni I don't know what Junior League means either. I live in Canada but we didn't do sports.

And there's this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_League
Had never heard of it. I thought it must be a children's sport organization!

Junior League: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_League

In the US it conjures images of cookbooks and ladies doing charity work in white gloves... or it used to. I'm not sure young people really know about the wearing of white gloves these days... I'm going to have to ask my work children...

You are funny, Rachylou! Now I sort of understand your earlier comment more about if similar to country club, catering versus cooking, church or not... but I don't really get country club either. We don't have many in the suburbs of NZ's largest city. I suppose they have some in rural areas. I am more familiar with golf clubs but have never belonged to one of those. These are pretty niche things for an international forum I think. White gloves... when I dressed up for Art Deco weekend, that's all

Oooh, someone needs to revive TCPITW (The Cutest Purse in the World). I don't see that one thrown around much!

The link to the list of acronyms is useful -- wonder if Angie and Greg could make a sticky so it's easy to find for new forum members?

Ok, so isn't there a function that lets us "like" comments from other members, because if there were, I would so click little thumbs up and hearts to some comments here!
And Rachylou, how I would love to have coffee with you, your sense of comedy completely cracks me up, I love it!

Ha, Jenni! We posted at the same time!

Does NZ not have social clubs? Country clubs are social clubs, like the Victorian English Gentleman's Club... Well, sort of. They're 'devolved' from that. The US has social clubs for ladies and gentlemen like that, but then at some point, well, 'everyone' went and got their own... lol. So thus country clubs - and while beloved, are also joked about here in the US. Because they've given us reality tv shows like this: https://youtu.be/WFV9RmhA5Yo

Back to say, Big Rich Texas is one of my favourite shows of all time. It FASCINATES me fashion-wise. Not my aesthetic (heck, I'm a Californian), but these women have such an incredibly disciplined aesthetic. THEY DO NOT STRAY!

Lol Rachy. You are so right. Dallas is such a surreal place. By the way, I used to shop at the consignment store owned by one of the women on Big Rich Texas when I lived in Dallas. She tried to talk me into buying a rainbow striped Michael Kors top. I’m not sure who in Dallas would wear such a thing!

Isabel, I kind of agree with those saying it’s hard to get away from categorization but I think you raise a very valid point about the us vs. them mentality.

Omg, Meredith!! It's *like*, 'can I touch your arm?' You've been *this* close to a star of Big Rich Texas! Lol. And she tried to make you buy a rainbow top!!

I want a BRT (that's a joke) makeover. I want to understand. Is it the eyeliner? Is that the secret?

Oh, Rachey, I don't think you could pull off the BRT look - and please take that observation as the compliment it is intended to be!
I didn't warch the show or visit the store, but I never missed the episode recaps in our local "city" magazine. Absolutely hysterical!
https://www.dmagazine.com/arts.....e-1-recap/

Oh, that's immortal. I have to try and read them all now.

But Whot Whot! No BRT for me? Hey I did Glamour Shots! A little tweak here, a tweak there, and I'm certain I could get to Alien Face... Ok, no, you're right: Mother would have Things To Say about The Furniture... and Being On Reality TV

Little Story: So my uncle once ditched a society columnist by siccing her on me and when I got my name in her column he managed to 'lose the evidence.' I have to say, my uncle was always doing things like that to me... I mean going into hiding and abandoning me to, for instance, make sure his groupies 'go thru' by my lonesome (for you Downton Abbey fans)...

That Mother of yours is sounding more scary by the minute Rachy.

You don't know the half of it, Jenni! Oh, you just don't know! Lol... Everyone is soooooo proud of themselves and their scorch marks when they make it through an invitation to dinner... Hahaha!

Further to the comment about acronyms, just for the record, I've been reading this site on and off since very early on in its life and I still fail to remember what all the acronyms mean, so it's not just new people. At this moment, for example, I have no idea what HEWI means.

I mention this not to suggest that you should be accommodating my particular memory-like-a-sieve issue -- but if there were a way for the words and phrases the acronyms stand for to pop up when the cursor hovers over the acronym or some such, it might help new and more casual readers.

Just a thought. I love the site either way.

Sarah

I noticed the "chav" comment on the hoop earring thread. Living in the US, I had to go look up the definition of "chav." And I was disappointed that it was a class reference and not in line with an esthetic style preference. Someone posted that hoop earrings were "too chav" for her style, and it was one of the most condescending things that I have seen here.

I think that there is a substantial difference between saying "I don't feel comfortable wearing large hoop earrings in my conservative work environment due to their strong association with youthful rebellious fashion" and simply saying that " hoops are too chav for me." The first statement acknowledges the status quo and accepts responsibility for not being interested in challenging it in this instance. The "chav" shorthand is derogatory and classist. I was then frustrated with myself for not having the time to call it out, as if I was okay with it. Many people voiced similar concerns about feeling an obligation to speak up in regards to that weight loss thread.

I went back and read the full thread about weight loss which was originally posted by Alexandra. I feel like it was rooted in what seemed to me to be perhaps an unconscious sexist presumption that body changes like pregnancy and menopause are trivial female concerns and women should just: "shut up and get back to being more uniform and masculine already. " Many people articulated my sentiment more fully than I have done here.

I think that the shorthand style descriptors which bother me are ones which presumes a universal standard of social desirability. I think that the forum should be for helping us meet our own standards based on our own priorities. Where I live, even different nearby towns have different dressing standards, as do different industries. None of them are best, just particular current norms.

Ok, but - and I say this as someone who lived 15 years in the ghetto and feel the pride of being a Ghetto Rat - the chav YouTube vids are really funny...

Maybe I'm being too sensitive, but several months ago there was a thread where more than one person said we shouldn't call looks "feminine" or "masculine" and I've honestly felt stifled about how to express my perspective on some looks since then. I try to be sensitive to offensive labels, but I also feel like at some point it's almost impossible to have a discussion if we can't use points of reference that are meaningful to us. I guess it's lazy, but sometimes it's just more brainpower than I have to go into extreme detail rather than use shorthand.

Traci, I'm sorry you've been feeling that way. I miss your presence on the forum and hope that you won't be deterred from posting. Regardless of the fluid nature of the terms "masculine' and 'feminine," I'm not quite sure what descriptors would serve in their place. As you say, it will be difficult to discuss anything if we feel prohibited from using such basic and generally understood points of reference. I think it's important for people to feel comfortable expressing themselves and not to feel stifled by someone else's decision that commonly used terminology is no longer acceptable.

3style, I loved every second of reading your post and I agree with everything you so beautifully expressed.