I am not quite sure what to say here, since it appears that it was me posting a comment my ex-bf made to me ages ago that started this whole thing. Where I come from, 5'6" is an average height for women and not considered tall at all. Should I apologize for stating my wish that I was taller - as I said, all of my family members are taller than me and sometimes would make fun of me in good natured way about my height? I would like to think that it only makes me human, but If that wish offends someone, than I apologize.
As for my ex-bf's comment, it was directed at me. When he first said it I was momentarily at a loss of how to react as I didn't ( and still don't) consider myself " poor thing" because of my height at all. I could have chosen to be offended (which was my initial gut reaction) and have a fight or I could have chosen to find it funny, and I went with the second. I decided to give me him the benefit of a doubt - probably to him compared to his height I was short, relatively speaking.

I have never said "Poor me, I am only 5'6", I wish I was taller". I am pretty mindful of what I say to other people. So what bothers me about this whole thing is that I was sharing a personal thing in a completely innocent manner and am feeling attacked for doing so. Was it thoughtless of me to share something that was said to me- perhaps, I don't know. I have been a member of this forum for over 10 years and have never been less then kind to anyone here, and I would like to think than I deserve the same treatment back.

Wow! I knew when I read Angie's post this morning that it would ruffle feathers. As a tall person, or sort of tall person at 5'8.5", I will agree with Minimalist. There are clear studies to show the advantages of being tall, although I haven't looked at them in a long time, and I couldn't begin to tell you if there is a particular height at which this advantage starts. I can honestly say that being tall was not an advantage when dating in college, at least among the cohort of men I was around. If anything, I would say that being short played into the stereotype of being the kind of girl who would make a good SAHM, which greatly annoyed my shorter stature career minded friends. However, I will be the first to admit that my height has provided me with many benefits. I'm certain I would have been badly hazed and worse as I worked in my clerkships and internships if I had not appeared tall and confident. Height is definitely a privilege, however, you cannot change or alter your height. It is what it is. Even with heels, it is easy to tell where people fall on the height continuum. I do not think heels play much of a role in creating an illusion of height except in the mind of the person wearing the shoes. It's like a man wearing platforms. We all know he's wearing them, right?! Or, maybe a better example would be a comb-over to hide a bald spot which we all know is there. Heels do not really make us taller or more confident. Only our attitude creates that. A tall person can lack confidence, and fail to make use of their height privilege. I believe a short person can have tons of confidence and do just as well as someone who is tall, making up for any of the advantages the height provided the taller person.

On a completely different topic, this is for Minimalist and Biotene gel. As a tonsil cancer survivor, I am very familiar with both dry mouth and it's potential issues which for someone like me can becom every serious. Biotene used to be a great brand making all sorts of wonderful products for this condition and it was recommended to me by my oncologist. But a couple of years back they were bought by a bigger company that changed most of their formulations. The new formulas are considered to be not helpful or in some cases harmful. I don't recall where the gel falls but there is plenty of information out there on the health boards and forums.

I like how Minnie put it: anything too far outside the norm comes with disadvantages. It may be slightly better to be on one end of the spectrum as opposed to the other end, but both extremes come with disadvantages.

I am uncomfortable with the word "privilege" in the way it has been used in many of the comments. A privilege is something that is granted to someone. But none of us can control how tall we are. And some people are lucky to have a fast metabolism, so weight is not always controllable either. Do people have certain advantages because they are tall or thin? Yes. But I feel like using the term "privilege" is designed to shame the person for being tall, when it is not something they can control.

I am glad that Angie posted about heels for tall people today. It can be difficult shopping for clothes when you are short, and it is nice to know that tall people have their own set of issues.

Hmmm.

I started as a front-of-line, front-row-of-photo kid but ended up average US height (5'4).

I actually *do* feel too short in flats. Some of that's a proportion thing, but some of it's just a personality thing. So I prefer 2-3" heels. I am often shocked to see myself in a photo with others and see a much bigger height gap than I FEEL, ha!

I actively support taller women in flats. OK, and in heels -- but then you all undo my effort to catch up with taller people!

I have shorter and taller friends and most wear a mix. One 5'10 pal is pretty committed to heels because she likes being as tall or taller than a lot of men. Not an attainable goal for me....

Tanya, your story made me laugh. I dated plenty of guys who said the stupidest things - your comment reminded me of them!

As to the larger matters being discussed here - Sorry, but I just don't buy the argument that being tall and/or thin is a "privilege". Yes, those attributes appear to confer some advantages. So does having a pretty or handsome face, being a good athlete or being endowed with that elusive quality known as "charm".

But being tall or thin doesn't mean squat if your resume is summarily rejected because your name sounds "foreign." And it doesn't protect you when a rogue cop on a routine traffic stop makes an assumption that you are "dangerous" because of the color of your skin. When we label every advantage-conferring personal attribute a person can have as a "privilege", I fear we diminish the very real injustices that are part and parcel of the lives of those of our brothers and sisters who are discriminated against because of their skin color, ethnic heritage, immigration status (real or perceived), faith, or sexual/gender identity.

I'm willing to bet that most of us were teased or bullied about something in childhood and perhaps beyond. I know I was and - yes - I am still sensitive about that issue. And I expect each of us has an ongoing insecurity about some current aspect of our appearance. I certainly do, and sometimes there are comments made here that unwittingly bring up that insecurity of mine. But that is MY issue and MY problem and I wouldn't expect anyone here to censor their conversation over it. Some of you feel differently, and have quite rightly spoken up and politely requested that certain subjects be handled with delicacy. And, by and large, the members of this community have made a concerted effort to honor those requests. It is obviously easier to notice the things that are said than the things that are left unsaid, but I'm not sure that calling out each and every perceived "transgression" is productive or conducive to maintaining the fabric of the community.

Tanya and Minimalist, I feel your dry mouth pain ladies, I have sjogren's and it has destroyed my salivary glands, there is a xylitol spray by Spry that is wonderful for keeping the oral environment more comfortable and healthy.

As to the other points, I am 5'4.5" and a 14/16 and often realize when people taller or thinner call themselves unattractive or say they can't wear certain things because of it in threads ... how they might perceive me in an unflattering way but I still wear what I want, do what I want and try to feel good about myself even though I don't meet everyone's standard of desirable attractiveness.

Hopefully, everyone can cut themselves some slack and like what they've got. Or accept it.

Quick comment -- @Tanya -- I'm not criticizing you or calling you thoughtless! I said upthread already that I know your comment wasn't meant in a bad way at all.

I only made this post to make people who are not short be aware of tall privilege. And it IS a privilege, the same as being white is a privilege. We don't control how white we are, either.

And I understand about physicality undermining respect. People almost always assume I am quite a bit younger than I am and treat me accordingly. Which can be a struggle in areas like healthcare, work, etc ...
but for me, if I got too concerned about people commenting on weight or height or the like, I'd never want to read any posts. Or look at any magazines.

Aziraphale, I appreciate your frankness.

And Ryce - I couldn't have said it better. Because I spent an hour this afternoon trying to type up an answer that didn't keep turning into a TMI self-pitying can-you-top-this rant about my own insecurities.

After 58 years on this planet, I've finally got it thru my thick skull that there are billions of people in this world, the vast of majority of them are nothing like me, they all have opinions, and personally, it is a waste of my time to get bent about it.

EDIT:
If we're going to ask people to be sensitive here, I would much rather see sensitivity about the appearance of strangers. Recently someone commented about a featured blogger wearing a striped sweater that "added a meter to her hips." Then oddly adding that she wore it with confidence. ( I got her rather poorly-put point, that you can wear anything you want with confidence, but what a back-handed way to say it.). And someone once posted a picture (back view) of a dressed up woman with a very casually dressed man - I could only presume the poster took a picture of these strangers with the sole purpose of making comments about them - nice! And another comment last year I think - a comment about messy, stained, smelly poor people they had to interact with. WTF.

@ Aziraphale: I feel that we are going around in circles. You say you are not criticizing my comment yet you started a whole thread because of it. Call me clueless, but I did not even realize it was my comment that prompted it till I saw my name identified a few comments down. You say you know I did not mean it in a bad way, yet that implies that such a comment could have been meant in a bad way. I still frankly can not yet imagine how a " here is a stupid thing related to the blog post an ex-bf told me once" can be equated to " I am stating a stupid thing". Or how in a original thread you mention "going on and on" about it when in 10 years on this forum this is the first time I have mentioned something height related, again only as something that was said to me. I really feel like I am in a Kafka novel.

Also, especially in today's political climate, I find it a little distasteful relating privilege of being white to privilege of being tall. I am pretty certain if one studied who had it easier in life between tall non-white people and short white people what the answer would be.

Jlpp, I appreciate the xylitol spray recommendation, I will check it out.
I am also sorry to hear about your salivary glands. Manuka honey has wonderful antibacterial properties and is also something that was recommended to me throughout my radiation treatment to alleviate some of the issues caused by dry mouth.

I am super sorry to hear you had to go through cancer, Tanya (and I should have noted that above, I was thinking it though). But super glad you came out the other side.
That spry spray has been a lifesaver. It has aloe vera in it and the xylitol has a great effect on oral ph.
And ty. I use manuka honey great call!
I had to have massive dental reconstruction and this week went to the dentist and the first time in 6 years, no decay or issues from the dryness and no dental work had to be redone! I was so insanely grateful!

Sorry about hijacking the the thread!!

I'm five foot on the dot, so I feel I can speak with some authority as a shorty! I certainly didn't find anything concerning about the post or the cute story.
Sometimes, I think being short is an advantage. I think I have actually had quite a bit of success at work because as a short blonde, I'm not very threatening. This has its uses. Also, I am more comfortable than most in economy size airplane seats.
Other times I think being short is a disadvantage - I have literally had times at work when I could not see properly over a lecturn!
But it is what you make of it, and why would I feel weird about something I can't change? I've had students say to me "You really are short" and I just laugh, cos you know what? I am. If anything I read it as a sign of their social ineptitude, rather than as something wrong with me.

Being very average hight, I don't have a personal experience, but I am currently going through hight related issue with my daughter. She is only 9, but she is very tall for her age. Size charts puts her at 12-13 age group. She is the tallest in her class, including the boys. She gets teased about her hight all the time, she gest treated unfairly at school because she appears older than she is and she is vey unhappy about this whole situation. She is starting to hunch down to not to stick out so much and it is affecting her posture. She asks me all the time - why I have to be so tall? I am trying to explain to her that everyone is different and that it is nothing to worry about, but it is not easy to see her suffer. What I am trying to say that issues with hight can happen on both side of spectrum and that something that seems like privilege to some can in fact be the opposite to somebody else. It is all relative and mostly related to our own perception.

I don't understand how height is a privilege... and yes, I've read the whole thread. It's genetic.

I'm 5ft 10. And the smallest in my family. I have 2 sons, one is 6ft 4 and the other is still growing as he is 13. Again, not a privilege, genetic.

This could be an British/American lost in translation type thing.

I think I would prefer to be shorter when it comes to buying clothes. Especially jeans and trousers. Mind you, I have difficulties buying tops blouses that are long in the body too. So for that reason, I would prefer to be slightly shorter.

But I don't think I have ever heard the phrase 'being tall is a privilege'. But I will certainly take it on board. See, Angie was right, education always.

Gigi, I think you said what I was trying to say only better! It was late when I wrote my post! Thanks!

First of all, it is absolutely not OK in my book to be discriminated against, be disrepected, to not get opportunities or be made to feel less, and raising awareness about issues like this is important.

However - and I hesitated a long time before commenting, but (especially) since we are, after all, on the subject of being more mindful of what we say - do want to add that your wording has rubbed me the wrong way.

Just like Tanya was only telling an anecdote from years ago and didn’t mean anything wrong with it, I also don’t see how saying something like "even though I am tall, I wouldn’t mind being a little taller still" should be equated with “complaining”, "oh poor me", “going on about” etc. Wording that has been repeated throughout this thread, which, yes, I found insensitive. I know this wasn't directed at me or other forum members personally, but it felt like jumping to conclusions and generalizing.

I'm perfectly happy with my height, and can ony speak for myself: For me, my comment on the blog was in the same vein as saying something like "I love that I can wear navy close to my face, but wouldn’t mind being able to wear black tops too without them washing me out." It’s not a complaint, I am not jealous of people who can do that, I am not looking down on anyone, it’s just a simple statement of how I feel, no subtext implied whatsoever.

Thanks for listening to my two cents.

I appreciate the candor of the original post here, but I think it's asking for something that is really impossible, and to me, frankly, not preferable.

I believe we should be free to express our feelings about our own bodies here; it's one of the things I like most about this space. I am aware that others may be very sensitive to the comments I make about myself (for example, someone who does not like her hips may grit her teeth every time I say that I dislike not having them; someone who struggles mightily with weight may have no patience when I am frustrated with a few new pounds). Still, I fully realize that each of us likely struggles with her own body perceptions and issues. I try not to judge others because of the personal perspectives they express, and frankly, I cannot adjust my speech to accommodate all of the potential interpretations of my commentary. 

Asa rule, instead, I try to be fair, just, and kind, but also true to my feelings; and my impression here is that 98% of the time, others here also do the same. That's the main thing, in my view.

The number one agreement for a peaceful life is "Don't take things personally" It is our job for that inner peace, not the job of the rest of the world to walk on eggshells about what they say. Yes , their are some absolute deal breakers to that, but it is being stretched too far these days.

. I as a short person who endured lots of comments since everyone else in my family is average or tall, am not at all offended at anything a tall women feels regarding heels for herself. Why shouldn't she be allowed to feel that?

I am 5'3' , it's a fact, not a disadvantage in any way. It just means as a curvy petite that getting proportions right in my outfits is key to feeling good. That is all it means.

My height doesn;t define me other than that, my actions are what defines me. Intent towards others is what defines me. There was no intent in Angie's post to cause any chaos, but to educate as she always does. Angie has created the safest forum online to engage in and for that I salute her!

Agree with Angie-HEALTH is a privilege. Where does this slippery slope you put out there end? So I was born with red hair-which many people cannot stand. Am I a victim and should I be upset when people sing the virtues of blonde hair? Should you all be careful of discussing your gorgeous chestnut locks around me? Is my lack of traditionally appreciated hair color not to be as respected as my "privilege" of adequate(as decided by who?) height? I realize you probably didn't mean it to come off like this but I think its really endemic of many in today's society who are constantly looking for ways to be the "victim" as well as simply things to gripe about.

I liked yesterdays blog post about "Too Tall in Heels." For me it was fun and fresh. Part of my response is probably due to having dealt with that very topic. A shorter person might have a different response. Not every topic fits every reader perfectly. I read posts and topics about dressing the petite body with interest, but I am in no way -- and have never been -- petite. I can't weigh in on such a topic. I could weigh in on being tallish and having faced the "to wear heels or not wear heels" because of height question.

It saddens me that the good fun being had in comments on that post came off as insensitive. Did I personally find any responses thoughtless? No. I only saw it as positive. And I see this conversation, in this thread, as positive as well. It's better to clear the air than sit on resentment over unintentional hurts.

However many studies, conducted for whatever purpose, and by whatever organization, there may be, as an actual short person, speaking from my own experience, the experience of being less tall is just fine. I almost feel like the myth that being tall is best is one perpetuated by tall people and I only think about it when people go on about how great it is in comparison.
But, even as a shorter person I am aware that taller women sometimes feel too tall in heels and there's room for that feeling too. Angie's statement about height, good health and privilege is how I feel about it too. Upright is already super fantastic.

...I do agree with viva: I appreciate that you just came right out and said what was on your mind, because it's easier to have an "open air" discussion about it.

By stating your actual opinion, you are inviting comments and disagreements, which puts you in a vulnerable position, and I think that takes guts.

I haven't been around much on the forum but I feel compelled to comment on your post. I am barely 5'3". I have been bullied as a child for various reasons. I have been called shrimp and little. I often wear all black on a forum that does not embrace that look. My style is my own on a forum that is fashion forward and often embraces trends, when I do not. I agree 100% with Angie. Health is a privilege. Height is genetic. You have to own who you are in life. I am slender (which for me is not a privilege it's lifestyle, plant based diet and working out!), petite, I am not beautiful but I am elegant and intelligent. I am powerful and respected because of who I am, how I express myself and how I behave, which has nothing to do with my height or gender. I am kind, I am courteous and I own who I am. I have read many comments that I may have found less than positive about the things in fashion and dress that I love, but since they were never meant to be hurtful, I never commented on them. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I embrace that diversity. If we have to make sure we are always PC and inclusive then no one will ever be able to express their true thoughts, ever, because they will always rub someone the wrong way. I value courtesy, kindness and empathy above all else, but people are allowed to have different feeling and views. As long as we know that those views were never meant to be taken in an unkind way, I feel it's unfair to make people feel ashamed for having an opinion. That's the heartfelt opinion of the salad eating shrimp who wears black, black, more black, long jackets, leggings......etc lol!!

I'm a little under 5'3", so another one drawn to this thread because I'm short.

Tanya reminded us a few comments above that height is relative. I felt a lot shorter when I lived in Germany than in my native Brazil, where average height is lower.

If you want to be a gymnast, tough luck being tall... Formula 1 pilots and horse riders also tend to be short.

When my grandma was young, being tall was a disadvantage for her, mostly for sexist reasons. I recently read an article about Princess Diana having to pose with her knees bent to appear shorter than Charles.

The one thing I would like to see change is height expectations for models. I understand that height makes a difference in sport performance, but why should it matter for strutting down a catwalk?

In other words: where height is a social construct, we have work to do in terms of acceptance and appreciation.

I've never felt too self-conscious about my height, but throughout most of my life I've suffered for other reasons--for instance, having naturally more body hair than most people. Nothing abnormal or pathological (even having to say this is already telling), just natural ethnic variation. We have a long way to go in terms of breaking away from stereotypes and expectations that only correspond to a very small part of the population (or to plastic mannequins).

Sorry for long post. This thread gives a lot of food for thought, and I think this thread is an outlet for maybe a need that all of us have to share deep feelings, not all of which are totally worked out.

I have enjoyed reading the responses here. What an intelligent and thoughtful group of women. Whenever we find ourselves engaged in a controversial discussion like this, I am so impressed. Often I find myself nodding along with contradictory statements (alas, I have the essayist's gene, which in the world of letters is both a privilege and a curse! Ambivalence, thy name is Suz.)

For that reason alone, I'm glad you raised the subject, Aziriphale. Even if, as others have said, it left me scratching my head a bit because I experienced Tanya's story as being entirely about herself and her ex-BF (and also as amusing) and Angie's intention as to educate and maybe enlighten us a bit on how differently different people experience the world. Personally, I like learning about the fit and fashion challenges that others face and their various attitudes towards such things. Somehow it's all grist for the mill and seems to help me figure out my own fit issues a little more and my own preferences, which I'm sure is Angie's intent. For me, this works, which is one reason I'm still hanging around all these years after joining (the other being the brilliant company of you gentle readers).

As others have said, on a forum like this one we are often going to come across stories that spark negative memories or associations, either about body image or fashion faux pas, or something unrelated. Sometimes our sensitivities are legitimate, and important, and we need to honour our feelings of discomfort and speak up, in order to help educate others and preserve our own integrity. And sometimes -- to be blunt -- our sensitivities are unreasonable and exaggerated.

Aziriphale, you commented to me (re my story about infertility) that people rarely mean harm when they say insensitive things. I could not agree more! So, typically when people asked me when I was starting a family or complained about not being able to get pregnant a second time (or, what might be more analogous to this topic, complained that they couldn't stop getting pregnant!) my approach was to remind myself that it wasn't about me, to tell myself they meant no harm, and to let the comments go. Deep breath, move on.

But if I was talking to a close friend, and the comments had been ongoing, I might approach things differently. I might say: When you complain about not being able to get pregnant a second time, or when you say you wish you didn't get pregnant so easily, I know you are talking about a real problem for you and I know you don't mean to hurt me. But my problem feels bigger and this hurts right now. Can we please not talk about that until I'm feeling less sensitive?

And if the person wasn't a close friend, if she were an acquaintance — kind of like on a forum— I might just try to spend a little less time with her, or in any situation where the topic was inevitably going to come up. (Which is itself a privilege, of course, but one we all do enjoy on a forum where we can pick and choose our threads to read and decide what we are able to handle on this day or that.)

Where do we draw that line on a public forum? I guess it's different for each of us, and (I hope) depends on the seriousness of the issue. No easy answers, as usual.

I am 4'11", and I have never felt, would never dream of, my height being any sort of handicap.

I find this actual, initial post vaguely offensive, and completely bewildering - although I understand that wasn't the writer's intent.

I have never considered anything to do with my appearance, or anyone else's, a privilege, or a handicap.

At least, not by my own personal reckoning.

Here are some things that I do consider a privilege:

1) I turn on the faucet, and I have clean, running water that is safe to drink.

2) When I go to the grocery store, there is an abundant stock of fresh fruits and vegetables, meats that aren't spoilt, and flour and bread that isn't weevily or mildewed.

3) I feel privileged that I have clothing on my back, reliable transportation, neighborhoods where I feel relatively safe walking late at night.

I feel highly privileged that I have a life where I can say "I want, but I don't need". I feel immensely privileged that I can take part in protests and activisim without fear of life-threatening reprisals. I feel hugely privileged that I live a lifestyle, that allows me to advocate for wildlife and environmental awareness in other countries.

Forgive my impatience, but I cannot quite wrap my head around this topic. If you like your high heels, wear 'em. I do. If you prefer flats, wear 'em. I do.

Nicely said, La Belle Demimomdaine.

I'm 5' so I get this. Does it greatly bother me. No. But a few more inches would make getting dressed so much easier. Trying to find clothing starts to feel like a full time job. When a woman who is 5'5" or more says she's short I have to roll my eyes.

My mom was 5'10" (I'm adopted) so I know that tall women have trouble getting dressed as well. Then again, the fashion models that many women aspire to look like are tall.

I'm 5'1.5" on a good day. Any way you cut it, I'm short, always have been. My daughters are the same height. They hold good jobs, they've been high-ropes instructors, they've camped and skied and portaged canoes through the boundary waters. We've all been the subject of short jokes, and we all have days when we get tired of dragging stepstools out to reach the platter on the top of the fridge, but I can't imagine feeling BAD about my height. It has never occurred to me that there's some sort of disadvantage to wearing flats. No one has ever taken me less seriously because of my height, truly. I gladly ask tall women (or men) to reach things on high shelves at the grocery store, but I've never thought about them as being privileged.