1st WORLD PROBLEMS LOL

I'm sitting here giggling at 3:19 in the morning and I've read every single response.

Our forum is so thoughtful, introspective, sometimes in my opinion overly sensitive to some issues like saying "height is a privilege " Hmmm

I was not going to comment but I always think I need to add my opinion and perspective to the tapestry that is the ylf quilt.

I'm 5'2 I work with all men the shortest of whom is 5'8. Everyone is taller than me in my family. My oldest and youngest neice standing tallet than me at 9 & 10 years old. I was the shorty in the Army for 10 years. Always in the back of a parade formation because they like the talls to make a strong appearance.
I've not ever felt at a disadvantage. Even though I used the words "vertically challenged" it is a term I laugh at easily.

I cannot talk about anyone else's journey but I can say I've never experienced height or fat discrimination . Lol. Giggled again. I HAVE experience color and pregnancy discrimination. It is not a nice feeling.

Sometimes as my sister says we need to just breathe and remember how privileged most of us are.

Hmmm lol 1st world problems.

Ledonna, HUGS!!! I am imagining it was little Nugget who had you wide awake at 3 am.

Janet: I feel like a lot of people (not just here) misunderstand recent discussions of privilege, and it's a subject worth researching.

This. I'm starting to think the very idea of privilege has gone a long way to entrenching inequality rather than making things better. It pits us all against each other and distracts from the real problems we should be dealing with as a society, namely the fair and equitable distribution of resources. You know: clean water, health care, education, that sort of thing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sympathetic to the underlying motivations, but the concept of privilege, real or imagined, used in this way is nothing but a source of conflict. Everyone feels entitled, nobody tackles the underlying issues.

This conversation seems to be a case in point. What this exposes for me are the real insecurities we all deal with when our self-image becomes colonised by imagined ideals of how we're supposed to look or behave. Tall, short, loud, quiet, masculine, feminine, whatever it is. We're always too much of one thing and not enough of another. I'm deeply uncomfortable with dividing up these arbitrary measures and apportioning some or other perceived value to them, rather than recognising that we're all in this together. When we start calling each other out over something as random as height, we're not doing anyone any favours, least of all ourselves.

(Incidentally, I recall a piece of research that found leaders were statistically more likely to be either taller or shorter than the average, and if any group was underrepresented, it was the norm. I'm also available for comment on the relative advantages and disadvantages of large breasts )

To the couple of fabbers who felt bad because of their height, not lack of height:

From third grade until junior high, I was the tallest girl. I was also taller than all but one of the boys. I also had big feet. I wore size 10 shoes in fourth grade. Flats appropriate for a nine year old were hard to find, and my mother didn't want me to wear high heels to elementary school, so I wore penny loafers for years. At my high school reunion, someone mentioned that. Imagine that! Remembering the shoes a classmate wore nearly 50 years ago. That's what a freak I was. And I felt like one too. I'll tell you one thing: it did NOT feel like an advantage.

Suz you are 100% correct lol

JAileen - that is exactly what my daughter is going through at the moment. She is third grade, tallest in her class and has already the same shoe size as me - EU 39.

Ledonna, bless you for saying what I first thought. First world "problems" indeed.

This has been such a great discussion! As a "vertically challenged" person myself I definitely agree that there are very real disadvantages but I can see that height, especially outside the norm, can also have disadvantages. As many have said, it is what it is and nothing we can do about it, but I think it's always a good thing to understand others' challenges. I agree Approprio, we are all in this together!

Yes, these are first world problems. But does it follow that we can't ever discuss ideas that aren't The Most Important Problem?

If we can't talk about it here, where can we talk about it?

Also, I think the fact that this thread has grown so long, and so many people have written impassioned responses, that it has mushroomed into something much bigger than I had originally intended. I tried to defend myself; I thought I had said as much as I have to say on the subject; yet now I am struggling with the reflexive desire to defend myself some more, as people add to the pile-on.

I just wanted to point out that hey, sometimes really short people have experienced size discrimination, and are sensitive about it. That doesn't automatically imply that I am unsympathetic to the problems of being very tall, or that size is a Pressing Issue and it is vital that we put a stop to it right this moment, even before we solve the world's clean water problems!

I do appreciate that everybody is bringing their A-game for politeness, though.

Not evervyting needs to be defended. Everyone has an opnion and perspective and to share and discuss in a great forum is a great thing to me.

My 2c to the discussion is to point out that some of the varying opinions expressed can be attributed to the fact that the word "privilege" is a homograph: a word that is spelled the same, but has different meanings. In reading the comments, it's apparent that some commenters are discussing different definitions....thus some confusion. And, then, some are discussing the same word but disagree about the application of the word to "height". It's fascinating in this climate to read a discussion about "facts"---some accept that at a certain height, a privilege attaches as a FACT, while others dispute this as a FACT.

I agree and applaud the reminder to be thoughtful (always) about our remarks, and mindful of how they affect those around us, and I agree and applaud the notion that living in peace is the key to happiness.

I think as long as your legs reach all the way to the ground, you'll probably do okay.

Xtabay, but mine don't, when I'm sitting in any chair... LOL...

Ledonna, love you so very, very much, just have to say xoxoxoxox

My feet don't touch the floor while seated in a chair, either.

You're right, shiny, chairs are definitely not one size fits all. But then, what is?

As for me, I've decided to punch the next person who calls me a "tall drink of water." Ugh!!

My mom made a point to buy a chair where my feet touch. I'm 4'11, and I can't say that I've been disadvantaged by my height. I'm occasionally inconvenienced by it. Did I get teased about it, sure. The thing is, bullies are really good about finding that one thing that causes insecurity and exploiting it. Any morons who tried to bully me deserved the physical or verbal beat down they got. As a child, they moved on. As an adult, some of my closest friends are people who learned that I don't back down.
We are becoming a society of victims in America. Approprio said everything I wanted to say about privilege.

I've never considered my short stature to be a disadvantage, except for reaching things on high shelves, lol. That said, I think it's a good idea to be mindful of others' sensitivities. That's just being a good person.

Amen to shedev. Society of victims indeed. Where will it end?

Just today, I crammed my legs into a tiny seat on a Spirit air flight. When we landed and were preparing to deplane, a woman in the seat in front of me was extolling the virtues of being short! I couldn't help but chuckle a little in light of this conversation. It's awesome having long legs...until it isn't. It's all good.

Janet i was just gonna say I sit comfortably on a economy seat on a plane. Lol

Vivtims ? No. Maybe a society with awareness. Corporations sure pay a lot of attention to make money from understanding our psyches. Paco Underhill made his lifetime's work doing this sort of thing in order to learn to use our vulnerabilities to manipulate human behavior. Entire malls were based on his vision. Economists do it. Politicians do it. Corporations do it. Why is it that when we look at it as individuals in an effort to understand ourselves and others, it is just stoking victimhood ? I believe that a self examined life is important.

Ledonna, yes, these ARE first world problems. Thankfully, we don't have to worry about food or shelter.

OK, I tried to ignore this thread, but, like a sensitive tooth, it just keeps bugging me. Approprio and Laurel nailed it for me, but I just wanted to add in a comment about "educating" others.

A casual comment can hit a sensitive spot, but I think it's time to reconsider our attitudes towards calling out others who are not deliberately trying to hurt us. Unless the comments are an actual attempt to wound or denigrate, I'm inclined to chalk up my reaction to such wording as evidence of my own insecurities and sensitivities instead of trying to re-educate a person who was not trying to offend me. As Approprio so wisely says we can sympathize with the underlying motivation to alleviate distress, but I think we shouldn't ignore how our good intentions to "educate" do distress others who had intended no malice or hurt.

Oh dear. I think I may have done more harm then good in starting this thread. Oh well, you win some, you lose some. I've learned something.

You all make good points, and thanks again for playing.

Az - imho - the ability to discuss an issue, and disagree, and make intelligent critiques on each others arguments ( rather than on the people making the arguments) is a necessary part of a healthy community! If nothing else, your thread has given the wonderful women (I believe it was all women who commented; apologies if I'm wrong) of this forum a chance to show that indeed this is a doable task - something that is not always a given in the world we live in! Regardless of my opinion on the topic, cheers to you (and the whole group) for staying cool and polite and generally positive in a difficult discussion. Personally, this gives me hope for the world Xx

Elisabeth, I know you'd never, EVER!, intend to cause distress. You were ever so careful to word your thoughts in a sensitive and considerate way in your opening statement, and you've moderated this discussion and responded to every comment in a thoughtful way. And I think hearing and reflecting on these issues helps us all to be more empathetic and understanding.

The issue I have with this kind of discussion is it starts to revolve around who gets the prize for being worse off. It's a way of learning by sharing tales of woe, but, ultimately, everyone seems to end up feeling battered. To me, this kind of discussion works best when we find a way to talk about our sensitive spots without implying those who don't have our particular concern are somehow privileged. It's hard to discuss--much learn--something if I'm busy defending myself.

Gaylene, what an interesting statement : "when we find a way to talk about our sensitive spots without implying those who don't have our particular concern are somehow privileged. " This is really food for thought. Because in many cases there is privilege yet in others there maybe not be significant vulnerability that we envision. There really is so much subtly. I couldn't agree more that I hope this does make us more empathetic.

Shedev and Xta also made me think about the line between self imposed "victimhood" and vulnerabilities. Really interesting stuff.

Elisabeth, I can say that this really stretched by brain cells and I am ALWAYS grateful for that.

Speaking of different viewpoints...

I consider some of the things mentioned above as basic human rights, not a privilege.

Clean air and water = right
Freedom from political [war/terrorism], physical, sexual, and emotional violence = right
Access to preventive, reproductive, and urgent health care = right

[etc]

Seems more and more out of reach every day.

Az: you have absolutely no reason to defend yourself in my view. This is a fascinating, thought provoking discussion and we're all enjoying the mental work-out. Thank you for getting it going and graciously moderating.

Gaylene: right! I keep thinking about the classic Monty Python sketch in which Four Yorkshiremen compete for the most deprived childhood. It's funny because it's true.

Isabel: speaking of sensitive spots, something that might read as cultural capital can also come along with a load of other baggage. People assume that being gorgeous is a cakewalk, but I've known plenty of gorgeous people who'd tell me otherwise.

The reason I mention cup size is that I know this is something many women would envy, to the point that they will undergo surgery to achieve it. But I didn't ask for big boobs and to tell you the truth they've made me feel very self conscious at times, because our sexualised culture makes them an open invitation for a load of unpleasant harassment and body shaming. It doesn't feel like an asset when people are talking to your chest rather than your face.

I'm not saying this to wallow in self-pity about a fact of life, but rather to make the point that when it comes to our physical appearance, what we perceive as privilege is merely the flip-side of the divisive culture that spawns it. It doesn't stop the shaming, it perpetuates it.

Vix: absolutely! I feel very strongly about this as well: when we begin casting basic human rights and dignity as privileges, it's a race to the bottom. I still have hope though.