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OT:my life, my marriage, my budget and YLF.

Sona

Veteran

As I have mentioned in passing:I lost my Dad in 2009. Prior to that I worked full time as a hopsitalist/intensivist ( taking care of very sick hopsitalized patients), was a full time grad student ( masters in health professions education) had a newborn, and also taught medical students full time. Needless to say I had many stress induced illnesses complicated by pregnancy and postpartum depression that morphed into major depression. Then I lost the most compassionate, loving, and most amazing human being I have ever met: my Dad; totally unexpectedly. yet in the week before his demise he told me " you have to first take care of yourself, then your family, then others". It took losing him for me to make drastic changes in my lifestyle- changing to working part time, eating well,exercising and meditating. I lost 75+lbs and have put my masters thesis on hold.

Yet every year I have had one or major depressive episodes ( despite meds and weekly counseling) which has nearly resulted in well..my being no more. For the first tim this year ( my mood usually starts spiralling downwards in early fall) I remain buoyant. Mostly because I love putting my outfits together, hearing what my work folk have to say and then getting the constructive input from all you guys.

I've had to spend money to achieve this. We both work very hard but my husband is extremely frugal and saves every penny. He is one of those people that just does not have the heart to spend. In order to pay off my credit card this month I sold a solitaire pendant and an expensive watch. I hardly wear these items and rationalized that I would rather have my expnesive well fitting trousers, nice blazers and boots. Yet my husband complained about a $300 recent purchase ( shoes plus down coat). I was devastated. I did not ask him for the money from our savings account but sold my jewelry for this!

For the first time instead of bowing down to him I decided to say " you know what: yes I have had to spend money to buy nice fitting clothes. this gives me pleasure. my appearance is important to me and it is helping my mood".

I wish he would understand. We love each other deeply but sometimes I think he looks at me as Sona=$$ spent today.

I have nearly filled my wardrobe holes and am ready to syc fairly soon but right now I just feel bad. And I don't want to go down the deep dark hole of desolation...

So what if fashion and looking good is my therapy? is it so wrong?

General

69 replies

Latest reply was from Scarlet

Mo

(website)

Veteran

I hear you! Men and women don't always see eye to eye on money matters, and particularly wardrobe and other 'girly' things like manicures and salon visits.
I bump heads with my BF sometimes over it, but that's why I took to a budget this year. Now I simply say, it was within the budget. Because he's always like, "ANOTHER_____? You already have 2." To him it's the amount of articles rather than the actual cash. But I am a very thrifty shopper. I'm sure I pay on average less than half of what my wardrobe's retail value is.
Anyway, I'm not sure they'll ever totally understand or agree, but as long as you can find a somewhat peaceful halfway meeting point, it takes the bad feelings out of the equation. I don't like being made to feel bad about a purchase that originally made me really happy!
I hope you guys find that happy middle ground!

qfbrenda

Veteran

As to wether it's good that it's your therapy depends on your whole financial picture and I'm NOT asking for you to reveal that. But some things I would ask myself: Are we out of debt? Paying extra on the house? Saving for retirement? Saving towards kids' college, if that's a goal of ours? Paying all bills on time? Have 3-6 months of expenses in the bank?

If the overall financial picture looks good, then IMO it's reasonable to put extra money towards your wardrobe in the name of "therapy". I seem to remember someone saying that spending around 7% of your wardrobe on your clothes is reasonable, depending on how much you make. That might be a place to start in determining how much you should be spending.

It isn't reasonable to spend nothing on clothes, ever.

Maybe you both need to come up with a reasonable clothing budget, after showing him some budget websites that estimate what people might spend on things. You'll probably settle on a number that seems high to him and low to you. But if he knows that you won't spend more than X every month/year on clothes, then maybe he can relax and let you do what is helping you feel better.

(((Hugs))) to you. I'm glad you are doing so much better this year.

KikiG

Veteran

I am sorry you have had such a hard time, and I am sorry for the loss of your dear father. I am very glad you are in weekly counseling. I think you might want to talk about this in counseling.

It is certainly reasonable that after two pregnancies and such a substantial weight loss, you needed absolutely everything new, from socks to panties to work and casual clothing. Even before your weight loss, you said that the nicest things you owned were those Japanese Weekend maternity dresses (which were very nice). That tells me that it has been a very long time since you gave yourself permission to value your appearance and shop for clothing that made you happy.

Are you caught up in some sort of shopping addiction cycle that is unhealthy? We are in no position to judge this, but your counselor can help you think this through in terms of your family income.

What worries me is that you are working and earning money, but seem to be in sort of a child-like relationship with your husband with regard to mone (good money, probably!). You don't seem to feel that you can discuss it, to create a family budget, for things that are important to you to be valued and allowed for. Instead, it sounds if you secretly sold things you did not value to avoid getting "caught" spending money on clothing, and fear your husband's disapproval. Again, your counselor can help you in this area as well.

Sona

Veteran

thanks ladies. Brenda: we max out our retirement. Our 5 yr old daughter has over $80,000 in college savings already.We pay extra on the house. we've never paid a bill late. We paid outright for a new car last year ( it was 12 yrs old and on its last legs) so don't quite have the 3-6 month cushion replenished yet.

So I think its all the more frustrating to me that he gets upset when I buy clothes. I used the 7% annual calculator using my income alone and I'm below that in terms of per month expenditure.

thanks for reading and helping me through this rant. It will all get better in time I'm sure

He uses mint.com and i think thats part of the problem: its sends him a " you've spent $200 already this week on clothes" eve though I may have been at target buying detergent not missoni!

Janet

(website)

Veteran

KikiG made a couple of points I was going to make, mostly about bringing this up in counseling (and perhaps your husband and you can have a session or two together?), so I mainly just wanted to tell you I'm sending good thoughts and vibes your way.

I've been through depression myself (and the loss of my dad 20 years ago and my mom 3 years ago were huge losses that definitely brought on difficult times), so I fully sympathize. It sounds like you've been taking great steps to focus on a healthy balance in your life. Hugs to you!

Sylvie

Veteran

First, off, I want to give you a virtual hug from a complete stranger. *hug*

I'm sure others will have better advice on this but here's my take:

You have your priorities right. Taking care of yourself and your family has to come first. Taking care of your mental and physical health is a prerequisite for taking care of the rest of life. How can you be functional and productive if you don't feel good?

I don't think there is anything wrong with having fashion and looking good be your therapy. However, I can see your husband's POV where because he doesn't value clothing, spending money on fashion is a luxury and not a necessity.

Your husband must have some "non-necessity" that he thinks is worth spending money on (ex; car, sports, vacation, food, hobbies, education, house). I include education and housing because public schools are free, there is always a lower cost college and renting can be cheaper than buying.

If you don't already have a joint budget or haven't already discussed financial goals and priorities with your husband, you should do that. So long as you both agree that you're saving enough, and the bare necessities are being taken care of, each of you should have a budget for "things that matter only to that person".

A clothing budget should come pretty high up on the financial priority list under the category of "required to maintain mental health". Maybe it means that you'll forgo spending in other categories (ex: eating lunch out, daily coffee) because those aren't things you value as highly.

In the end, you both value each others happiness. Taking care of your family financially means saving for a rainy day *and* making use of money to maintain a reasonable quality of life.

Sona

Veteran

KiKiG: thanks for the thoughts. Yes my counselor and i have spoken about this many times. We agree sometimes it can get out of hand but mostly I do fine. I do tend to rebel when he complains and sometimes think about shopping just to spite him ( but never do). We have no debt other than out mortgage.
Also I think you have me mixed up with someone else: I have one child and have neevr owned a japanese weekend dress which sounds awesome btw!!

Sylvie

Veteran

Sorry, posting again. Re: usage of mint.

Get a separate bank account (he can be on it too)
Get your monthly "free" budget deposited directly into it.
Set up mint to characterize all transactions from that account as "Sona's personal account".
Use that account and that account only for clothing purchases.

Sona

Veteran

I should say everytime we make a budget he always wants to underbudget clothing. I think our problem is not spending too much but saving too much. We both have 401 k and 403b's maxxed out, have additional IRA's, a 529 that has a large amount of money for the little one and additional savings accounts. We don't have enough money to enjoy today while saving the max for a tomorrow ( that may nevr come). I've tried to explain this to him but he is so frugal minded almost like a depression era child: save, save, save, save no matter what.

mamaKate

Veteran

Sona, in all seriousness, huge hugs and big congrats for having a fall without depression!!! Honestly, how much money is that worth? A content (depression-free) wife and mama is worth more than money can buy. (Thank goodness my DH shares this view, too!) And tell him to lay off the crack habit! (i.e. instant notification of expenditures) Once a month is surely frequent enough.

Sona

Veteran

Sylvie: that is a great idea!!!

HelenInCanada

Veteran

I understand your feelings, Sona...I went through something similar with my partner. Who likes to feel disapproved of or have conflicts with their loved one? Who likes feeling the blues from time to time, or feeling overworked? You have such a full life, with many responsibilities - an important & demanding job, children, and a spouse. Who wants to feel an inkling of being 'self-indulgent' or whatever else term pops into our heads when we pay attention to our appearance? These are normal concerns, and many of us experience them. In fact, money & spending was the #1 cause of conflicts in relationships! I think the wisest route is to be balanced - prioritizing well, and certainly taking the time for self-care and self-fulfillment daily that everyone deserves. SYC can be a source of creativity for you when spending more is not desirable. Also, thrifting can be a godsend when you're on a budget - and such fun! I hope you and your husband are able to work out a reasonable agreement in the spending area, but there's nothing wrong with having nice things for yourself. You are an adult who earns money - but it's sensitive and good of you to care about your husband's reactions to it. It shows your maturity and sense. Good luck to you - and take things one day at a time, as cliche as that sounds. All the best.

HelenInCanada

Veteran

P.S Just read your previous response. I should have said '...you have a child (not multiple)'! I wish you well during the more challenging moments.

Louise

Veteran

Sona this may sound a little flippant but you could get run over by a bus tomorrow and never have enjoyed today? It's fantastic that you have so much saved but this does need balancing with a bit of enjoyment? I agree with mamaKate surely something which helps you beat depression is worth it's weight in gold? xxx

Sona

Veteran

Louise: I totally agree. I just need to get my hubby on the same page. I want to live for today while planning for the future not obsessing about it. His priorirites are almost reverse: Yes he would like to enjoy today ( but very frugally!)

I love him to pieces. He does not even shop fror himself as it gives him heart palpitations to look atsticker prices.

catgirl

Veteran

Sona, I am sending you a huge hug. I wish I could sit down with you over a cup of chai and talk in person... Depression is a constant battle for some and there is no shame in admitting it. I've been there, and as I get older the winters here get harder to take, resulting in a mild form of SAD for me. And I am so sorry for the loss of your father.

Have you shared exactly what you've said here with your husband? If he knew how important it was to your sanity to have this outlet, would that change his POV? Is there a way for him to feel like he has a say without totally crushing your needs?

I do know there are times (like right now, actually) when I feel I am liable to spiral out of control with shopping - at those times I take a break and assess what's going on. Often shopping is a form of stress relief to me, like eating or exercise can be. Then I try to turn to exercise or other less expensive outlets for that kind of stress. I know you already run, and you have a stressful job and a little one. If you are not harming your family financially, then I think your husband is going to have to adjust to this part of your life.

I know my husband complains now and then about my boots, especially since I just arranged them neatly in the laundry room and he saw how many there are! I told him as long as we live in this climate, I'm entitled to all the boots and jackets I want. Plus, like you, I work and contribute an equal share to our household financially - and even if I didn't, I'm his WIFE! I don't complain about the gadgets he buys.

Hang in there - and feel free to post here or PM me any time if you feel depressed and need to talk. Like I said, I've been there and I suspect many others here have too.

Sona

Veteran

Thank you Una. Your reply was so insightful. Like you I have developed insight into my own 'shopping' and know when it can become a crutch- in the past I've bought stuff to fill a void but it never has. With YLF I'm more about styling and making things work not necessarily buying. And the buying is very preplanned not whimsical or just because it is on sale as it was pre-YLF. So I do think its different. I just need to stand up for myself more and say" I have a budget. I'm sticking to it. And yes I will be buying clothes/accessories as the need arises!"

Isis

Veteran

Sona, congratulations for getting into the fall without a depression! Awesome!

It almost doesn't matter that you spend your money on clothes; what matters is that your idea of a budget is out of sync with your husbands.

I wonder if you can come up with a budget with your husband. In that budget, in addition to whatever is in the clothing budget, there could be another category labeled "personal". Your husband gets a similar amount in a "personal" category. And then it's up to you to spend that category on whatever you want: coffee, lunch out, clothes, saving, a bicycle, a trip, whatever.

That is what my husband and I do. We have high savings goals, with two kids headed toward college, retirement eventually, etc. But we each have a personal budget too. He spends his on lunches and electronics; I spend mine on clothes.

Would that work? It boils down to sitting down and coming to an agreement, which might not be possible for you and your husband......

Elly

Veteran

I appreciate that you trust all of us enough to share some of your deeply personal difficulties with us.

On one hand shopping can turn into addiction, especially when it is being used to cope or replace something else in life. On the other hand, it doesn't have to be that way. So long as you are conscious and in control of your decisions I don't think you are being unhealthy. There is no difference between what you are doing and throwing yourself into any other hobby (that you don't own every piece of equipment for). Throwing yourself into positive hobbies is a great coping skill.

Were the two items you sold gifts from your husband? If not you have every right to do with them what you please and he shouldn't feel hurt about it. If they were perhaps you could talk to him about the joy you get from the more practical things. Men love practical.

I'm sad that he can't seem to get over this to help support you during this difficult time. I don't know your relationship and I am sure there is some reason he isn't able to see or deal with the fact that you are struggling and coping.

I would tell him that he needs to trust you. Then complete your plans-- buy what you had worked out and go on SYC or develop a budget and stick to it.

Men don't understand and even good men and loving partners can be very hurtful when it comes to shopping and spending-- usually without meaning to. They don't seem to understand how some of the things they say makes all you do as a partner and mother seem undervalued.

I have seen this happen in many relationships. It seems as though most men have some sort of something that they too enjoy spending money on, which often gets worked into budget priorities when shopping and fashion are seen as frivolous and take a back seat. It is even more frustrating when males expect and want to see their partners look good, but don't understand their partners spending time or money doing so. Others don't understand how fashion can be fun or increase self-esteem and be an intelligent and creative pursuit.

Sometimes hubbies have a hard time because they see huge amount of dollars signs, but can't put it into the perspective that sometimes you have to spend a lot because for years you have neglected your closet. Sometimes gradual is better in that aspect. If you have a good friend or family member that is in a similar economic position as you, perhaps you could talk to her and ask if they have a clothing or spending budget. Sometimes that puts things in perspective and can help your husband understand your need to re-prioritize. I'm not saying that shopping should hurt your savings, keep you from reaching goals, ect. but taking care of yourself does cost a little money and it should be a priority.

Since you have made this revelation with your depression, it might also be possible to set aside a portion of your yearly budget to be spent in the Fall--- not the best coping skill, but not the worst-- and hubby can't tell you when to spend your own budget or money.

IDK if that helped at all--- but if it didn't I can commiserate.

Anonymous

Sona, you've already gotten so much good advice from the other ladies, I'll just send big hugs.

{{{{{Sona}}}}}

qfbrenda

Veteran

It sounds like you guys are doing great financially---good job!---and I love Isis's and Sylvie's ideas.

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

Aww; you poor thing!

I for one find looking good and developing a positive self-image to be very therapeutic; and I don't have to tell you this - you have to feel well yourself to take care of other people (your family, your patients)...

Besides, I dunno about you, but I'm bitchy when I'm cold. $200 down coat = warm = not cold = not bitchy Those are the kinds of equations men understand!

MNsara

Veteran

{{{hugs}}} to you, Sona! I can certainly sympathize with the shopping therapy - and it's not automatically bad IMHO. You sound sensibly connected to a therapist who should be able to help you recognize and deal with any 'red flags'.

This is a bad time of year around here (aren't you in MN?) and I know I can hardly stand winter and the mere thought of winter any more. I finally recognize that I go into a slump by late November and don't usually feel better until late March. So, know that you are NOT alone in that struggle.

You're also in a very demanding time of life and, even though you've cut back on work, maybe you're not able to recharge your 'batteries' enough for the constant drain of family, work, life.

On the fashion front, investing time and care (and its $$) into yourself (and your emerging style) can be a big part of feeling better about ourselves. Is it possible that your attitude about loosening the purse strings and enjoying life more *now* is so new that it scares your husband? It could be like you've suddenly started playing by different rules than you two did before, and maybe he's afraid of where it will lead. So, it's possible he just needs time to see budget and relationship things are still okay, but maybe he'll need some help seeing your side and accepting it.

Anyway, you've gotten a lot of good advice and ideas here to consider.

P.S. I've definitely used shopping as therapy (we've had health issues and kid issues that could have pushed me over the proverbial edge)-- and I agree that a few $$$$ spent on ourselves can be a valid alternative to falling apart and needing to spend time and $$$$ putting ourselves back together again. . .

P.P.S. to Una - you are brave! I'd never line up all my boots together where my husband would be able to see/count them

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Oh, Sona. ((HUGS)). You are a beautiful, brave, talented, courageous, compassionate and intelligent lady. Don't ever forget that. I know what it feels like to lose a parent at a young age that you were close to - and my heart goes out to you.

You have received amazing practical, wise and nurturing advice here, which I know gives you strength and a plan forward. My words may not be as wise because they are heavily laden with emotion from a past experience. But perhaps they will be worth something to you anyway.

It took losing a loved one for me to realize that life is too short. You have to live your life each day, and that means spending a certain amount to be happy and healthy. There is no point in having loads of money in the bank when you retire if you couldn't thoroughly enjoy the process of getting there. Life is a journey and not a destination. We have to enjoy the journey - otherwise it's not living

I have no doubt that hubby loves you and wants the best for you. I wish you strength and also want to congratulate you on how far you have come. You are inspirational.

Ornella

(website)

Veteran

Sona, I am blown away by your openness, thank you for trusting this community so much to share very intimate details.

I would not be adding any practical advice, just my opinion that might be of use to you. Sounds to me like the topic of budget and spending on yourself is one of those very raw ones and both you and your husband believe your views are justified and right. Which they are. The question is where the middle ground on this subject for you two is.
It also sound to me like you're more flexible when it comes to understanding his POV, while he does not even know where to start with understanding yours. And this, I believe, puts you in better position. To start with, believe that this will be sorted. What I think you need to do is gain some detachment from the whole subject, let the emotions cool down and then reopen it. He needs to understand that his views of what make you feel better are his, but only you truly know what it is. You don't sound like emotional shopper to me at all. You sound so much more mature in terms of understanding what life is all about, losing your Dad had put things so much into perspective that now when your husband does not leave much room for something as trivial as life's little joys, you're even more determined to have them. I totally understand this.

I think sorting this out with your husband will take time, but that's not bad news. After all, sorting one's style takes time too

I'm sending you one big bear hug!

Aida

Veteran

Oh, Sona you are a brave and wonderful woman! *BIG BIG HUGS TO YOU* You've gotten great advice already, and I wanted to just add a little to what Una said. Explain to your husband that by looking good, you feel good and that it's helping you NOT have depressive episodes; explain that you feel you deserve to upgrade your wardrobe after an impressive weight loss, and not spending as much on yourself for quite some time; explain that it's not putting you in any financial hardship, you are following a budget. Don't just do it once, you may have to remind him many times. He may not see the "look good, feel good" at first, but eventually he will. I'm sure your husband wants what's best for you, and once that really starts to click he'll bring up the cost less often.

I also agree with the idea of having a separate account or credit card for clothing purchases. I have a $750 limit card that I use for nearly all my wardrobe purchases, and pay off with my money separate from the account we use for household needs, food, etc. The fact that the card is low limit, that I pay it off immediately, and that my husband (who manages our finances and budget) doesn't feel its effects is a wonderful thing.

rae

(website)

Veteran

Sona, I first want to say what a courageous, strong woman you are to be able to stand up and share your trials so openly. Depression has always been a lingering spectre for myself and one of my best friends, so I just want to say how proud of you I am for talking about these things rather than holing them up inside. That alone makes me think you and your hubby will get things sorted.

My husband and I do not combine our income, but I sure do still feel bad when he seems to disapprove of any of my spending. For us, it seems to help to really talk it out, so he knows that I value his opinion on money and am still being a team player *while* I take care of myself. For example, I might tell him how proud I am of myself for turning a pile of clothes headed for the donate pile into a new boot fund. "Guess what?" I'll say, "Those jeans you hate just became my shopping budget for this month!"
It's the same as when he congratulates himself for cleaning the bathroom sink...lol

I think the idea suggested above of creating your own account for personal spending is a great idea... Maybe in your household budget you can create a category for your mental health and relaxation, too, and you can apply that to clothes at your discretion? That might help solidify in your hubby's mind that you buy clothes to cover your body *and* to nurture your soul?

Isabel

Veteran

Hi Sona, I don't have much time right now, but I just wanted to say that when someone is very responsible with their money IT IS EXACTLY why it is so hard to spend on something that one used to consider frivolous. If he was more used to money just flying out the door, then he would not notice the $300. I have to admit that I was somewhat like that for many years. I was SO focused on adding extra to the house, maxing out 401 ( k ) and 529s and IRAs, that almost anything else seemed frivolous to me. If my husband wanted $50 a month cable, I would say, " Well, that is $600 a year and that pays 2/3 of our car insurance. No cable . " Or, " $50 will buy a share in X company and in 30 years it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. " Yup. Me. I have changed.

Remember, just because you are evolving and finding what works for you doesn't mean that he is evolving at the same time. He may find the newer you, and what he considers shifting priorities, a little scary. Negotiation and compromise will come.

It seems to me that the only guy that really "gets" it, is Rachael Zoe's husband.

Can you imagine what I would write if I had time ! ???? Hang in there my friend !

Transcona Shannon

Veteran

Dear Sona - there's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said by the other wonderful YLF members. First of all, congratulations on your amazing weight loss and getting yourself healthy. And I'm so happy that this autumn season is feeling better for you.
I similarly lost 75 pounds about 8 years ago and went through the same "large quantity" shopping and spending as you have. My hubby was NOT happy about it and I thought it was only about the money. But it turned out not to be related to money at all. He confessed some time later that he felt somewhat threatened by my weight loss because as I lost the weight, I wore more form fitting clothing, felt more confident about myself and as a result, became much more outgoing than I used to be. He worried that my changing some of who I was meant that I might want to move forward in my life without him...and that maybe I was becoming more attractive to other men. No, he didn't want me to remain heavy (he was very happy for me because he could see it made me happy), he was just scared that it might change "US". Is it possible your husband might be feeling the same thing?

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