NAS for plus sizes: worse than 2019 - YouLookFab Forum

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Anniversary Sale

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NAS for plus sizes: worse than 2019

Kari

Veteran

Something that I’d love for folks who don’t wear plus sizes to notice. Note: last year was similar but not quite as bad as 2020.

There are 1,243 women’s clothing items part of the sale.
If you need a 16W (note, that’s a different/bigger size than a straight dress size 16): you have 181 offerings in your size.
If you need an 18W or 20W/2X: 178 options.
22W-24W or 3X: 175 options.
4x: only 37.

In comparison, at the other end of the range:
Size 00: 442 results.
Size 0: 971 results.

I get consistent push-back here when I call out size privilege. This is why I still bother to talk about it, and I really, really wish that others would call it out, too. Nordstrom Anniversary Sale and Nordstrom as a whole has become more and more marginalizing towards larger customers.

As a plus size customer, I used to have a curated selection of brands that were exclusive to the plus size section, and quite a few straight size clothes (what Nordstrom calls “Regular” because it’s clear the plus size body is an anomaly) that were really special and offered in pluses as well. However, Nordstrom has eliminated many of those brands and reduced true plus size offerings. Instead, they have more of their straight size clothes top out at a XXL, which is sort of equivalent to a 1X/14W, the lowest end of the plus size range. If you need something larger than that, they very rarely offer it anymore.

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Anniversary Sale

69 replies

Latest reply was from AngieB

Sal

Veteran

Yes that’s poor on two fronts. Firstly not being inclusive, and secondly not serving the market, so probably not a good financial strategy.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Kari, the frustration and annoyance of size availability is real. Have you ever taken up this type of conversation with Nordstrom? It would be interesting to hear how they respond.

I remember in the good old days when Nordies house brands "Classiques Entier", and "Sejour" sold beautiful and fab quality plus sizes and across a great assortment. My clients LOVED those brands across petite, straight and plus. We really miss them. WHY did they discontinue them?

btw, did you see this post about a new sustainable brand:

https://youlookfab.com/2020/07.....lati-kaur/

Kari

Veteran

Yes, and Nordstrom has never responded.

I agree. The elimination of quality house brands has left a huge gap in the market.

Anonymous

Well, this may not sound nice, but it's a matter of where the sales are. No one retailer can serve each end of the market and everything inbetween. Here's an example of a situation I have had to explain and manage at work recently: some gym members are flipping out and threatening to go elsewhere because we have tightened up our operating hours and are closing 2 hours earlier in the evening . We are still opening at 6 am - no change there. A simple number crunching exercise showed us that more people come in the early morning than late at night. And when all of the costs of operating were looked at (staffing , mostly) , in order to meet the new budget reality , we had to trim from the period of time that would have the least impact. Yes, a group of people are angry and feel left out and disrespected. There is no win-win to this when costs have to be cut. Same with size offerings within a line.

Kari

Veteran

I missed the post about HOURS. thank you!

Kari

Veteran

Lisa, this isn’t new to COVID. This is an intentional strategy/trend that Nordstrom has moved to over the last few years.

“No one retailer can serve each end of the market and everything inbetween.”

That’s the same baloney we hear from soooo many brands that decide that fat/plus sized customers are not their target market (I.e. the majority of them.) Not good enough.

nuancedream

Veteran

It's a pretty dire situation for the plus size customer. Nordstrom serms to be shunting an ever decreasing selection of plus size options to online only. How disappointing and frustrating for customers to have the Sejour and Classiques Entier lines discontinued. I remember how well made and lovely their collections were. Sigh.

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

It's so disheartening. I'll be honest. I didn't even look at the preview this year, because I'm so tired of being disappointed when I see something I love and it doesn't come in my size. It's not just a Nordstrom problem, but the sizing inconsistencies inherent in the department store model exacerbate it, especially when they're cutting back on house brands.

DonnaF

Veteran

I hear you. This year, Petite sizes don't even merit a heading in the Search function -- because there's only 77 offerings. (I drilled down on the specific size search and looked for a P4/PS.) The brick'n'mortar in store offerings have become rather dismal; hope this doesn't mean that Nordstrom is trying to phase out Petites.

Christina F.

Veteran

This is deeply frustrating and disappointing You are more than right to call it out.

Anonymous

I guess NAS became that VIP party, where some people are invited for appetizers or not at all. I’m really sorry to see this.

Anonymous

Well it's not baloney. It's a matter of dollars - I'm not making this up. Yes, I understand it's also not simply a response to covid, but a department store model has to put their buying dollars where the greatest rate of return will be. It may not suit everyone, but it is what it is. No one store is obligated to serve every segment of the market, especially if they feel they cannot make the ROI they require. I'm not favouring Nordstrom in this case, not all all, but I'm trying to expose the sad reality of it. It's a business action not directed AT anyone, it's internal.

Grace

Kari, thanks for an important and thought-provoking post. No matter what a retailer might say about their commitment to inclusivity, the data about their offerings says volumes about their awareness and willingness to welcome customers of all sizes. After reading your post, I'm freshly aware of the unearned privileges that Nordstrom (and others) unfairly extend to me and other customers of my size.

I took a look at the personal stylist section of the Nordstrom website, as I was interested to see if they showed images of stylists of varying body types. Most of them appeared as though they would fit into straight sizing and I was disappointed to not see more variation. Interestingly, the Trunk Club personal shopping service offered by Nordstrom includes offerings for customers up to 4X/28W (I just checked out their sizing information). Not sure where they are getting the clothes from for this service if Nordstrom itself isn't stocking larger sizes adequately.

Kari

Veteran

The “baloney” is that Nordstrom claimed to be including more plus sizes when it became trendy to do so, when they in fact did the opposite. As I mentioned, they used to reliably serve the plus size market much better than they do today. Their actions and their $$ show who and what they actually prioritize contrary to their claims to be more size-inclusive.

Yes, $ matters to corporations above all, but I’m tired AF of hearing that bodies like mine, or larger, should be grateful for getting any offerings at all because we are such a challenge to the market. The plain fact is the market centers smaller, straighter bodies, and I do not see many folks who have size privilege speaking up about it or noticing it. More often, I hear the same excuses made about why we are not included. It’s the same just about everywhere.

It’s the same here most of the time, too, and it’s partly why I have deliberately backed off actively participating, and why I’m very intentional about bringing these topics up when I do dip in.

(Fashion and the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale is the privileged tip of the iceberg. Take a look at medical care and even medical devices or access to surgery or even the fact that fat cadavers are not accepted and are therefore not studied by medical students. This is just one more industry that doesn’t care about larger bodies. We are an afterthought.)

Kari

Veteran

Grace, I wonder that too. What on earth would they be able to offer if they have so few items in 4X/26W-28W?

Just for fun, in all women’s clothes: 22,046 items available.
There are 243 items available in a 4x.
There are 12,187 items available in a size 6.

Anonymous

Yes , fashion is size privileged . No doubt about it . Anyone who is outside the “norm” or core customer group in any industry is going to be marginalized . Happens everywhere and every day . Doesn’t make it right , I know .

Kari

Veteran

That’s why I’d love it if those of you who have a lot of size privilege would speak up/notice these things; and why I’m trying to do so outside of the sizes that I can sometimes wear (since I’m on the cusp of being able to wear the sizes that Nordstrom cares about including, but many folks are sized out of almost everything they carry now.) Please use your privilege to notice and speak up.

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

Part of why it's so frustrating is they're using size privilege rather than data to define their "core customer group." The average size of American women is between 16 and 18 and 68% wear a 14 or above.

The petite issue that Donna brings up is real, too, since the average height for American women is under 5'4", but petite women aren't generally vilified for being short.

(BTW, that second link is a few years old, but it has a specific breakdown for sizes Nordstrom carried at the time.)

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

Taylor, here's one article on the issue of weight bias in medical care (simply the first one I found) from Harvard Medical School, but there's a ton of research out there showing that patients with higher weights do not receive equal or adequate care, which results in health consequences above and beyond any directly associated with body weight. I know this is a detour from what we're talking about, but it's related in that it's indicative of some of the other biases people, like me, who wear larger sizes face on a day-to-day basis.

kkards

Veteran

Kari, I’m sorry. And i know my saying that will not change anything, and I’m sorry about that as well....so, you’ve tried “talking” with Nordstrom about it, and nothing....so let your money talk for you...stop buying from them, stop browsing their website, you don’t need the stress...instead buy from companies that offer all apparel in the full size ranges...i promise I’m not an employee, but I’m always impressed that QVC offers an XXS-3X in almost everything, and in many of the same brands Nordstroms carries...Barefoot Dreams, Kut from the Kloth, Levis, NYDJ, Vince Camuto

Kari

Veteran

Thank you, Jenn.

Taylor... I don’t even know how to begin to respond. I’m pretty raw from those words. Wow.

Note that I’m not comfortable calling my body or plus size bodies “obese.” There is a lot of racism inherent in how the medical system chooses to decide which bodies are obese and how they treat them, to Jenn’s point.

Here, as elsewhere, our bodies are treated as problems. I’d like to ask that if any of you are thinking of larger bodies as problematic or inconvenient, consider why. Consider how it would sound to hear someone else talking about your body that way. Consider how few plus sized folks there are who are active here now.

I’m not going to rehash previous threads about fatphobia but there are a lot of links I’ve left in my previous posts on the subject.

“Part of why it's so frustrating is they're using size privilege rather than data to define their "core customer group." The average size of American women is between 16 and 18 and 68% wear a 14 or above.”
yep.

Kari

Veteran

Taylor, please stop using that word about bodies like mine, at least on this thread, and talking about why our size is problematic. I’m not okay discussing that with you or publicly here, but you can take that to your own thread. Thanks.

Anonymous

Taylor, I invite you to evaluate your comment. You have repeatedly used a word Kari has specifically outlined as not comfortable, in her own thread.

Also, you do not live in a larger body, neither do I. Sometimes the best thing we can do, as straight sized women, is to acknowledge this is not right and leave it as that. Advocacy goes a long way. Empathy also does.

I’m sorry Kari and thank you for putting so much emotional labor into explaining this over and over. I have taken notice, I appreciate you and love you above all.

I invite everyone on this thread to jot a quick line to Nordstrom inquiring about this. Actions lead to change!

Have a great evening everyone!

Preppy Pear

Veteran

This is a shame. And I’m really glad you pointed this out, Kari, because I thought they were doing better to offer a more realistic range of sizes. I guess not. I do realize that pickings are slimmer across the board, but only 181 selections in a 16W? And double digits above a size 20? That’s just pathetic.

When companies are missing a marketing opportunity like this, there is something deeper and uglier going on about their attitudes towards women’s bodies. And no, it is not the same thing for someone who wears a 00. It’s just not.

Anonymous

Taylor- I’m lost at the “haters” and the “thanxs”, but I digress...

Perhaps it would be a great idea to start your own thread about those issues.

In the meantime, I would want to emphasize that fashion is created for bodies of your size. This thread is about fashion and size availability in plus sizes. This is also about Kari expressing her frustration about NAS not offering what she was able to obtain before.

By the way, it is Zapotee, or Zap, you might remember me.

elpgal

Veteran

Thank you Kari for investing effort to educate us all. I never paid attention to this issue till I came across Universal Standard. They do such a good job with their size range and models. I am a ‘straight size’ but this was the first place where I have seen naturalish bodies. Imagine seeing clothing modified on somebody who doesn’t have a flat belly. What a relief! In thinking back to my childhood in India, availability in a specific size was never an issue because almost all of our clothes were sewn to measurement. Those were good days.

Firecracker (Sharan)

Veteran

Yet another reason for me to rethink my relationship with Nordstrom. I have been cutting back on purchases there, but probably not cutting back enough!

Anonymous

Although I was getting frustrated with the thread earlier , I’m glad I came back to read more comments . Kari - I hear you and will make an effort to use the privilege I do have and the fact that I know buyers for a lot of fashion retailers to encourage breadth and depth in their size assortments . Maybe the smaller indies are better positioned to respond than the bigger battleships like Nordstrom anyways . I keep writing and deleting phrases because this is so contentious . I don’t love some of what has been written in this thread . Flippantly dismissing Kari’s comments with “00’s have their own issues, thanx” really saddened me .

Anonymous

Ok. I stand corrected and apologize for misreading .

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