Well explained, Tina!

I'd say any woman who feels confident, free and equal responds as she darn well pleases to ANYTHING, which may not be in a way that makes the rest of us feel soothed. She owes us nothing, as a private citizen. Don't buy her clothes, for god's sake. Stop widening your target. Aim for the bullseye, that's the best way to hit it. Not buying her clothes won't get the leadership we are wanting.

She "lies down with dogs" because she was born in the kennel, for starters. Her situation is certainly more complicated than we can (or want to?) imagine.

I'd also say silence can imply quiet strength..... wrestling with the demons..... catching your breath..... looking for the nearest exit?

Oh, all right then. That clears it up. I'm a woman who feels confident, free and equal. I therefore respond as I darn well please, which may not be in a way that makes the rest of you feel soothed. xo

Aziraphale, love your comments!!! 100% with you!

I will state outright that I agree with the strong views of Aziraphale, Vix and others. When the rules of polite and civilized society are being broken, so are the rules of polite and civilized discourse. Nonetheless, my deepest values would never have me turn away someone I disagree with or try to stifle them. Moving this thread to off topic was the right decision, not only or especially for business reasons. Angie and Greg, I hope you know how much I appreciate and respect your decision.

Bennett: I agree that she owes us nothing. Likewise, we owe her nothing. Lying down with dogs is surely all she's ever known, and I don't deceive myself thinking that us boycotting her products will have any effect on her - politically, ideologically, or financially. I cannot say that in her position I would do any different. However, that doesn't change the fact that as a citizen, I have far less power than those who have the ear of the president, or those who have the money to buy power. I must take refuge in the fact that this small new story tells the tale - in some small way - of my disapproval of her father's policies. As average citizens, there isn't much we can do after we cast our votes, but voting with our pocketbooks might make some small comment on the politics of the day.

For those who are complaining about the posts about the Women's March WIWs, I want to say if somebody had posted WIWs for the inaguration balls or the inaguration, nobody here on YLF would have complained.

I do think what has perhaps been missing from this discussion is really hearing, getting, that people are feeling unwelcome.

Kiwigal/Sally, I appreciate that you reached out in your post. Very thoughtful. I was also wondering if people were feeling less welcome.

Echo: I woke to your thoughtful, calm response to my thoughts. Very appreciative for that, thank you!

It just feels wrong to me, personally, to punish the child just because we can. I agree it will not change Ivanka politically, ideologically, but financially- certainly. No, this won't ruin her or even put a dent in her lifestyle. But it also feels shamefully vindictive because it is aimed, well.... not at the "vile" person. It seems like a false victory. I personally don't feel better or effective for taking a swipe at the daughter. It feels like stooping when we need to be rising.

It helps me re-claim my moral comfort zone if I can reframe the actions I feel like taking within a more personalized context. When I apply that here, it doesn't uplift or fulfill me, it leaves me with a hollow feeling. I understand that there are many, many layers of assault that we are reacting to, regarding DT. Letting my moral balance guide me is what I am choosing right now. UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE (meaning, I reserve the right to alter my opinions when ugly facts surface) it feels fruitless and poorly aimed to hate on Ivanka.

I agree it's completely wrong to use Ivanka to get at her father.

However, I think Ivanka's behavior has been unethical and that deserves protest. She should not have been in the meeting when the president met with tech CEOs. She should not have been in the meeting with Shinzo Abe, prime minister of Japan, when the president-elect met with him. She should remember who she is: the grown daughter of a president. I.e., nobody.

That goes for Chelsea too. She's another one who needs to sit down IMO.

This is supposed to be a democracy, not a feudal society.

I'm sorry if people don't feel "welcome" on YLF due to political comments. But think how immigrants and minorities feel right now. "Unwelcome" is probably an understatement. I'll save my sympathy for them.

Oh, and Barbara Diane, wise words about hearing and being heard.

ETA: I'm thinking about this guy I talk with on Twitter. (Ok, well Lilypup was talking to him and I took over... Lilypup has *like* followers and I have none, lol.) He seems to hate liberals because they simply are. He says there's no such thing as white privilege. I'm thinking about how you have to really hear people. He says this because it's no privilege to be white in the US. You think about it, the majority of the people on welfare are white. I say this even after having lived in the ghetto. For sure the cops showed me respect and courtesy they didn't show my black and Hispanic neighbors. In fact, they were outrageously hostile to them. I say it because it's true. What people don't seem to register is that there's white in this country, and then there's white.

Bennett, I wasn't going to respond but --

No alt-facts will change the story that Ivanka chooses to be in the thick of things.

She has stumped for her father, defending him and his track record. Per the WH she has been named an "advisor" and as Rachy mentioned she is sitting in high-level meetings etc etc. That's in addition to starting to be First Lady-Lite.

As liberal snowflakes have mentioned time and time again, if Ivanka was just a "child" of DJT who said nothing *or* spoke on how she disagreed vs a damn grown woman with her own buckets of money to walk away from whatever ideology she wants to instead of participating -- no boycott.

Thankfully this nation has any number of people with racist/sexist/homophobic family members who have chosen to call them out on it and break the cycle in their own lives.

Wow, this really has become heated.

Bennett, it's not that I don't understand what you're saying about taking the moral high ground. But I don't think people are "hating on" Ivanka here; and if she's being punished, it's for something she's already guilty of. Ivanka has included herself in the president's small circle of advisors. She has aligned herself with the administration and its policies. So I was pleased to see that declining sales of her line caused Nordstrom to drop it, not because of vindictiveness toward Ivanka per se, but because it's the people's way of giving a vote of no confidence. Besides, like Rachylou says, this isn't a feudal society; she shouldn't be part of Trump's team.

I'm also getting increasingly frustrated by all the concern about people feeling "unwelcome". Nobody is unwelcome. Nobody is attacking anybody else for their political views. Nobody has to participate in off-topic. You don't even have to look at the threads you suspect you won't agree with ideologically! And as for the general forum, if the fact that people posted their WIWs to the women's march against the Trump administration makes you feel somehow judged, and sufficiently unwelcome to withdraw from the forum, then you've got bigger issues. (This is the general "you", and no one specific person, of course).

When we are silent in the face of injustice we give silent approval that injustice is OKAY.

I believe bacause Ivanka has intentionally put herself in the polotical platform she has given permission to Trump to behave the way he does.

I think she needs to have several seats.

Ha, Vix, we cross-posted and wrote kind of the same thing at the same time!

Ledonna, well said. Do not be silent in the face of injustice.

Boycotting Ivanka's clothing line may seem petty to some, but it's actually one of the only legal ways people can protest in America. That, and marches. It probably won't actually hurt her financially, of course, but it sends a message.

You can't tell people how to feel. They feel the way they feel. And expressing yourself online is the new national pastime, so we'd all better get used to it!

Bravo Ledonna !!!!!!! And Az, Vix, Xta, Rachy.

And Viva la free market. When brands become tarnished, for whatever reason, they are not being managed well. And sales go down.

I want to quote Jamie Whyte , author of Crimes Against Logic. The book is all about devices that people use to stifle a valid argument/debate :

"Those who take religion, politics and sex seriously, do not adhere to the general prohibition on discussing these topics. And they don't take offense...merely for the discussion. They welcome it. "

People who don't welcome it..."may in more subtle ways suggest that those who wish to keep friends in polite society ought to back off..." and not disagree with them. "Only a thug with disagree with them. " It is a way to stifle positions with merit : to pretend the person with a sound and rational opposing view is a thug who is running them off.

(I paraphrased the bit outside the quotation marks. )

Xta, I prefer to quote other people as MY pastime. ; )

Great quote, and great pastime, Isabel. Thanks for the insight!

Xta....LOL...thank you.

I came back with my own thought. I follow a few Mormon and other Christian denomination bloggers. They all recommend ModCloth as the place to buy clothes. They find Modcloth to have a great selection with well fitting clothes that are pretty, fashionable and MODEST. Modesty is a cornerstone of their values. I don't see that as them "punishing" other retailers or brands. In fact, it makes me very pleased that they have a way to square their values and their love of fashion. What a wonderful thing. : )

Funny you mention them, Isabel, I just bought a nice dress from ModCloth. I had no idea that modesty was one of their cornerstone values. I just liked the dress, and their prices are fantastic. Seems like a well-run, customer-friendly company that seems to be doing very well. They just opened up a store in my city. Obviously they have tapped into something people want! I wish them all success.

Mod is for modesty? Well heck. Learn something new every day!

Oh and yes, Bennett! Looking for the nearest exit...

!!

Xta what a coincidence ! I don't know if that was mod cloths intent but I know that they were a sensation with woman who adhered to modesty as a virtue. Mod cloth really opened a door for them as fashion lovers.

I had no idea that they are
going brick and mortar. That makes me SOOOOO happy for them !

Rachy, I don't know if that is the basis for the name. I know that Mormons and conservative Christians were their base customers in the beginning due to the great clothes and their "modesty". I have a dear longtime Mormon friend and she had told me about some awesome Mormon fashion blogs before I found YLF. And from there it led to some conservative Christian fashion bloggers. And I remember mod cloth exploding on those sites and within the Mormon community. It was a very exciting time for them : )

I also love seeing Muslim women into fashion and make up and how they handle it. It makes me happy that everyone has a way to participate and hang onto what is dear to them and their way of life ....

AND...they make clothes for ALL sizes, so bravo to them. I found out we're the first city to get one of their stores, so there must be lots of people here in Austin who like them (although we are far from a conservative city).

One more post : I am an immigrant. And yes Xta, I have felt incredibly Un welcomed lately. I worked very hard to get my citizenship after years on a green card. In some cases now I am afraid to speak my first language because I was attacked ( verbally ) by a man as I held a door for him and said something to my mom in Portuguese.

And let us not forget that the founders of this site are immigrants. Except for Sam who is a natural born American, I think. Angie, could you post Sam's long form birth certificate. ? ❤️❤️❤️❤️

ETA : How could I forget ?!!!! Jasmine and Rosie were also co-founders and frequent models. : )

Every American is descended from immigrants unless they are 100 percent Native American.

Obrigada, Isabel. You are most welcome here.

i have recently looked at Modcloth for my DD, who is very modest, and haven't found them particularly so for her needs. Maybe I will take another look, but that wasn't my first thought. I do like the prices and the lovely flying cat tights I found her for Christmas.