Oh, don't misunderstand me - I'm not knocking minimalistic outfits at all!! I absolutely love them and wear very minimalistic outfits the majority of the time! But - the way some of them read as presented by influencers (i.e. marketers) on Instagram is at least partially the staging, not just the pieces. That's all I meant

I think what's behind this question - at least as I read it - is 'Are you willing to invest the time, energy, emotional, mental and monetary resources needed to project the image you want to others?'

So in short - you can either
1) commit to putting in all the time, money and effort needed to project the image you want
2) lower the image you want to project to something that feels you, but feels attainable.

I think the first one is a big one. It takes time, energy, money, and mental space to project the image you want. It's the same as perfecting any other skill - whether it be a sport, or a hobby like painting or cooking. If you want to get REALLY REALLY good, you have to devote time, energy and money to it. You have to spend time evry day on it, and you have to identify it as one of your top priorities.

On the other hand, do you need to be REALLY, REALLY good at it? Given everything you would have to devote, above, not to mention living in a city where limited access created more of a barrier - is there an ideal image you'd like to project that isn't so 'perfect'? Because my hunch is that you could reach it, but would resent the time, effort and mental energy it took up. Given your 'shopping ban' post, it seems that you have lots of things you'd rather focus your energy on - so is 'dressing the way you want' up there?

I don't mean to be judgy - I struggle with this too. I go through cycles of investing too much time, pulling back, and then going up again. I do find that thrifting has helped me satisfy the quality that I crave at a more reasonable price point - but I enjoy it, and I know you likely wouldn't. So I guess the question is - what trade offs are you willing to make?

Unfortunately, I don't own most the clothes I want, because it's very difficult to find things that fit all of the 4 C's (Comfy/ Covered/ Colourful/ Chic) in my style moniker:

Comfy: You'd think athleisure trends would make this easy, but most of it is in polyester. A big part of comfort for me means natural, easy & breathable fabrics- especially with frequently 80%+ humidity yet I still have to teach without revealing sweaty pits to all of my students Silk blouses seem lovely but (¡)dry cleaning bills(!) Cotton is best - rayon, tencel & viscose can be hit or miss.

Covered: I like to cover everything except for my hands & feet, neck & face, forearms & ankles. This was much easier to do back home, with the abundance of modesty fashion brands. But here it seems the prevailing body type is about showing off the legs (can't stand all of these only half lined maxi skirts!) with a small chest (so many necklines that are cute on the local population end up looking scandalous on me, especially if I have to bend over!)

Colourful: I had my colours done & it seems that I'm a deep autumn - think saturated colours, like pure yellow, royal purple & warm teal. It's difficult to find these shades in natural fibres, especially in the fall/ winter. Similarly, people here prefer dressing in pastels, light denim or cool brights (cobalt), which wash me out.

Chic: I've recently been looking into Kibbe types re: projecting the image I want, although I haven't yet reached a consensus (outside opinions welcome!) I like looking polished, but I find that too many Girly details (e.g. ruffles or bows) look more barmaid than Romantic, & that Architecturally Gothic or Preppy Hipster don't accommodate my curves well (the 3 most common styles in HK). It's been really difficult to find the right balance between polished classic but not too boring or stiff lines.

TL;DR What's a woman got to do around here to get some pussybow blouses/ boatneck 3/4 cotton tops/ sleeveless gilets/ kimono duster jackets/ high-waisted, A-line or fishtail maxi skirts/ high waisted, straight or wide legged trousers/ cropped toppers/ maxi dresses that are: reasonably priced, machine washable yet breathable, & bright but opaque?!

I’ve been thinking how it is I say ‘no’ re projecting the image I want. I think I’ve come up with the nutshell example: I like looking a little punk lite, a little ‘street.’ My black ankle length puffy, which is key, is really old now. Feathers are poking out. I cannot find a reasonably priced replacement with the length and a bit of waist. I’ve been looking for several YEARS now. I’m afraid street savvy is giving way to derelict.

Wow. Hmm. I had a flash of total recognition with what you wrote about sitting down next to the chic woman in grey. Yesterday I was walking behind a young, slim, tall woman with her hair piled on top of her head, a simple long cotton skirt and tank. I wanted to be her. Alas, I cannot. And my family would be upset .
I think you should order one perfect, minimalist outfit from Zara or Mango. Yes, that's right, fast fashion. But they do usually carry the look. Try it on, wear it and see how you feel. Then prune your wardrobe accordingly. I sometimes do that from my own closet - I find the one thing that totally seems right and then try on everything else in the category to see if it measures up.

@lisa p: My understanding of you is that your ideal is minimalist or interesting cuts in couture quality fabric. To look really good on ordinary bodies, one has to pay top price and live in a market that supports such clothing. No wonder you're frustrated!!! Since you know how to sew, is there any chance you could and would make a garment or two?

Lucky for me, my personal descriptors do not and will never include sophisticated and/or elegant!!! With RATE and quirky, I can go pretty cheap plus not worry too much about ruining my clothing.

I really really feel what you're saying about wanting beautiful high-end pieces that don't require a lot of faffing and styling to look great. That's exactly what I want, too--clothes made out of lovely materials that just glide over my body like I was born wearing them. I want clothes that I don't have to worry about looking rumpled and tired at the end of the day and well-made enough that I don't have to worry about seams twisting or fabric tearing.

I also absolutely understand the frustration of seeing things out there and having them be out of your price range or not work on your body. There are a lot of designers I love whose sizing stops at just under the size I wear, and I'm frustrated to no end that I can't even TRY those pieces and I hate that, for the most part, the similar pieces available to me, in my size, are going o be lower-quality imitations.

That being said, I do have a good collection of pieces in my wardrobe that I feel fabulous about, and they came at all price points (well, not ALL--the most expensive piece in my wardrobe still fell under $500).

Some strategies that have worked for me:

1. I have a short list of brands that I know work for me. When I'm feeling the shopping bug, I make circuit through those brands' sites. I'll do that when I'm looking for something specific, too, but that's also often when I'll branch out if need be, which sometimes results in me finding a new favorite and sometimes needs to be written off as a failed experiment.

2. I really don't buy a lot. One or two pieces a month, max. That lets me spend more per piece.

3. I've benefited a lot from Sal's "satisficing" philosophy and her "power of one." There's a certain magic that happens when you really accept a piece into your wardrobe, wear the heck out of it, and make it your own. I can't really explain it except to say that a truly treasured item somehow molds to fit.

ETA:

4. I've become VERY strict about fibers. No more polyester in my wardrobe, unless it's in a specific performance fabric for activewear. Acrylic goes back on the rack no matter how good it looks in the store. Viscose is only allowed in on a case-by-case basis.

This is an amazing conversation. I don't have any good answers for myself other than to observe that the 3d photo of the shopbop model is my shadow personality. All my life I wished to look like her. Though don't personally want those clothes. You can see from my photo that I don't have a single thing in common with her, plus I'm definitely shorter and, now, many decades older, too. I guess I think to myself about how I would dress her instead and apply those ideas to my own wardrobe.

My best story about presentation to others comes from a jury duty experience I had. We were a room full of people and the woman in charge was calling the roll and checking it off. Occasionally she asked a question of a jury pool member. Like all else connected with it, it was tedious. When she got to one woman, she asked about occupation.
The woman answered, Escort. Every pair of eyes in that room looked up and gawked at this very ordinary woman, neither dressed up nor dressed down significantly. She had to get up and approach the woman at the front desk.

And here's what I noticed: she had incredible poise and self-possession. She did what was required and went back and took her seat, continuing with whatever busywork she had brought for herself.
And people kept looking at her. Now, of course she would have to know people would be looking at her but, since I kept stealing looks at her, I discovered that she was never checking out anybody else. This was huge to me. She let people look at her or not and judge her or not. Her "stock" would never go up and down because she wouldn't ever take in that information. Totally self-directed. It's like that old saw, What people think of me is not my business. And she obviously lived that out. Ever since then, I try to live that out, too.

And if you think about what people write about who is cool, it always seems to involve people going ahead with whatever they want to do without checking over their shoulder to see how they are being received.

Lisa, maybe the client friend in all grey was thinking how she felt a little blah all in grey and wishing she could pull-off colour, pattern and crazy shoes like you can. In my experience - she may well have been. I like the advice of Shevia and Vildy.

I know that you do have pieces that have the minimalist vibe, and you paid quite a lot for them. The EF silk tank for example. You probably have enough of those pieces that you could pull together outfits with the vibe you say you like.

But there must be a reason you choose more maximal things, when shopping or putting outfits together. Maybe those simple pieces just look too plain on their own on you. Minimalist looks great on some people, but not all of us. It seems to work really well on linear figures with high value contrast- like Audrey Hepburn. But no matter how nice a fabric or cut is, if it doesn't work for your shape and coloring, it just looks like you're wearing someone elses clothes!

Eta- I think the attractive thing about the minimalist outfits is that they give the illusion that the wearer's life is perfect. She has a tidy, perfect house, decorated just so. A perfect marraige, no family drama. Perfect career, stabile income. On the inside, and behind closed doors- she's probably as chaotic as the rest of us

What a great series of questions and a great thread! I just read through the whole thing but I need to get ready to leave the house soon and I’m on my phone (never good for composing a long response), so I want to come back and post some thoughts later.

Suntiger - that's a really interesting observation. I am a minimalist and as I said, I don't know how people perceive that. That's fascinating how it comes across. To me a maximal outfit with well chosen jewlery, make up, pattern, color seems so difficult to pull off. I admire the outfits and their wearer because they are obviously so considered, adept, to literally have pulled so many disparate and interesting elements together. Clearly that person can keep all the balls in the air - of life, home, work, kids! Juggling at it's finest. I could use the same comments as you made for minimalists. Simple and minimal is restful, clean, not distracting and yes calm definitely. But isn't it interesting how we always think the other half does it better!! So much food for thought!

Vildy - I SO agree with your last sentence. And I think in my rambling start to this thread, I mentioned wishing my style to appear more organic and "natural". But then , I also LOVE a fabulously put-together mix of pattern and colour. I don't know what I want, it seems. But yes, the best dressed and best presented are those who don't pay attention to what other people are thinking. I grew up being judged and criticized from a very early age, and have carried it with me throughout my entire life. The damage done seems to be hard to let go of, and I know it holds me back from being comfortable in my own skin . Ok - that's more than I meant to share here. Ugh. Must finish my coffee and hit the floor for some Roxanna-inspired exercise.

Lisa, just want to add - you are also allowed to love both styles! And I totally relate to your latter comment too. I grew up with the message (unintentionally, but still) that [insert random friend/neighbour/family member] was always doing it better than me and/or my family. It's a hard mental habit to break. x

@Lisa P I can sympathise & relate, because part of being comfortable in your skin is accepting all parts of you. That includes the ones you don't think 'should' be there, like your love for colour & pattern (says the one who wore a Kelly green polka dot dress today, haha). None of the parts of you are 'wrong', since they all come together to make the unique human being that is YOU.

Possible solutions:
1) Have you considered making two capsule wardrobes - one for when you're feeling all minimalist, & the other for the days you're feeling colour?
2) If you want to work the two looks into one outfit, try applying other restrictions to just one aspect of your wardrobe. For example, I only ever wear prints in my tops or scarves - because all of my outerwear & bottoms are solid colours, I can either pair them with a similarly neutral top for a more minimalist look, add a printed scarf to the neutral top for just a little oomph, or dial it up a notch with a printed top instead (for a larger swathe of pattern).

This doesn't mean that all of my bottoms are neutrals (far from it), but that steadfastly keeping just one aspect of my closet in check (re: prints), actually ends up giving me more freedom to break the rules as little or as much as I like with everything else. Sounds counterintuitive but it puts you a lot more in control of your narrative in the end.

Very interesting questions especially as I am in a "new phase" of life now and also since everyone is in a "new reality" that makes wardrobing difficult (both more and less relevant, harder to try out/try on, harder to plan.

From a past workwear perspective, I often had trouble getting the pieces at the same TIME. I would find pants but not the jacket I thought would go best. I almost never could walk out of a shop with an entire coordiinated outfit (or even on-line), so mix and match might be more mix-y than matchy than I liked. I am very picky about proportions and would be dissatisfied with how the top and bottoms and topper and even the shoes all worked, so I had more total items in order wear THIS with THAT. So much for "system dressing", I did not feel I had that for work.

It becomes more apparent with travel. Harder to pack light if my colors and proportions don't wprk. Or shows what really does work and what is fluff that I ought to get rid of. So in the current days of almost no travel, I am stilll trying to keep in mind that more of my clothing ought to fit together in a suitcase and really work.

We probably need a separate thread - have there been copious before? - on how to best exorcise the discordant opinions in our heads. :

I once read something interesting about how we might form the opinions we have about ourselves. Simple exercise of listing things you "know" about yourself - opinions you now hold. Examples might be: I'm a good driver. Good dancer. Clumsy. Selfish. Generous....

And then try to list beside each the person in your youth who was something of an authority for you, who you remembered said this.
Parent, grandparent, aunt, teacher, coach, big brother, popular sister
older schoolmate..

Gives you a big picture and you can aim to refute outdated or mistaken impressions of you.

Another thing I've found is that often people who are directly critical to you aren't even really talking to you. They may be talking to a younger version of themselves or to someone in their lives who won't listen to them. I remember being at a luncheon next to a woman I didn't know and she started lecturing me about not dropping out of college. She was vociferous. Nobody around us had been talking about education. It was puzzling. Then at last it came out that her own daughter had dropped out of college. I was maybe 30, looked much younger and had graduated from college. She didn't "hear" me say that. So I realize that for a lot of people we are something like a blank slate or crystal ball they can peer into and see some reflection of themselves. Has nothing to do with us, no matter how personal someone makes it sound.

And then there is something like a coaching style. Different coaches uses different tactics. Not always pleasant. Moms may feel responsible for shaping us up into the kind of woman they imagine may be most successful in life, as they gauge it.

Family relationships and self esteem could be a whole (off topic) thread! Even now, the first thing out of my mother’s mouth whenever she see’s me, or a picture of me, is a comment on my appearance. Usually critical.

I agree with RC, NM and Vildy that the people we care about/respect can be our harshest critics.

I do think you associate minimalism with being cool and organised and perfect, like ST says. But if it’s not your style it can feel a little unadventurous and dull (which is not intended as a criticism of those who love minimalism). You should wear what makes you happy and not try to second guess how others perceive it. Maybe you do have to try to accommodate both moods in your wardrobe.

This has been such an interesting thread and I have learnt alot from it... About my own attitude to clothing and style especially.

It reminds me a bit of when I lived in a shared house and even shared bedroom in London. My room mate was a gorgeous stylish beautifully groomed person whom I knew a small amount before I moved in. I was nervous and intimidated because she looked immaculate. Well - she was kind and fun and we became friends and laughed and laughed - but the immaculate part was an illusion. She was one of the most relaxed people I have come across about things like dirty clothes or dirty dishes or changing bed sheets. She left the house looking chic and elegant and untouchable but it was definitely a facade. And it has stuck with me.....

Lisa, I just took time out to read all the responses. I came to this site a few years ago needing to build a whole new wardrobe from scratch due to a big weight loss. I wanted a wardrobe that would last and not go out of style. I think it is possible, especially with neutrals, but found out that I enjoyed the fun of the ever evolving wardrobe. Study the colors that Eileen Fisher and some others use. They look expensive and sophisticated and can easily be paired with neutrals for an interesting look. I recently bought some EF pants in Nile green because they were 1. on deep discount, 2. a color that I liked. 3. could be worn comfortably with my glucose meter and in all seasons, 4. would look fab with neutrals like, black, white, greys, or metallics. It is a way to wear color without having to veer too far from neutrals.
I like busy colorful outfits but need to intersperse neutral outfits fairly often.
Maybe that is an idea you can use. I will never forget meeting a female executive with an international company who wore a crocheted top and skirt in whites that did not match. At first I was shocked, but the outfit was more interesting because of the mismatched pieces. It grew on me. I would have worn something with both whites to pull it together but she did not. It was a huge lesson in expanding fashion in my mind. Do what feels right to you and don’t think of what others will think.

I am both in a no shopping unless it is a few specific hard to find items which, honestly, I haven’t spent much time looking for lately, a desire to spend some time in my closet making outfits but not enough desire so far to do it, and a realization that some of my items don’t work as well as I thought. I would love to have them replaced by the magical clothing fairy who replaces them with the perfect item-all I’d have to do would be to open my closet doors.

On top of that Zoom calls are pointing out a few things that don’t work so well.

OTOH I have clothes I love that are sooo unfashionable, or that I rarely wear outdoors except for a walk on an exceptionally hot day because they don’t have sleeves, that I am enjoying wearing during SIP. Only DH sees me and he is -cough cough- not at all fashionable.

I’m going to look at your questions again and come back.

Do I own the clothes I really like and want?
I’ve always wanted a certain look-think Stacy from What Not to Wear-and to be comfortable also. And I have a second more creative out there persona lurking inside me also. I think I have elements of these within my body limitations. But I want more interesting little details in my support pieces-interesting enough that I would consider them special on their own. I love some of my items and most of the others I’d give a B to. But that B is a bit generous because of the next question.

Can I find them easily at retail? Nooo!
1. Most stores in my county do not carry my size. Even most of the major department stores in the big city near me don’t carry my size. Let alone any cute boutiques. And if I do find a specialty boutique it is for someone my size with a different shape and that style makes me look 50 pounds heavier.
Anytime I see anything I really like, something really special (like in an Angie post), it is at least $250, for a blouse or a pair of pants.
There is one Talbots outlet store in my county where I find serviceable clothing that fits me. Occasionally I really like something.
I settle a lot. I want black summer lightweight crops/pants but in the past I could only find navy (and a lot of the tops also incorporate navy) so most of my summer clothing is navy based. I can try on everything I could imagine wearing in a store and not find one item.
I have hard to fit feet and can walk out of Nordstrom with nothing over an entire year or two. So I duplicate, duplicate, duplicate when I find anything.

The good news is that I look much better than before I started caring again. I used to feel like I looked below the norm and now I feel like I rarely look out of place. I also am happy that I have enough looks to cover most situations. But there is another level I aspire to. As someone wrote about, there is one woman in a group of friends who has this easy self confidence I aspire to.

Do I project what I want to? Interesting question. I would say I am somewhat close, maybe a B or B+ If I ‘m being generous with myself, if I adjust for this body, age, comfort, what’s available, what I can afford, and my stage of life. WHEN I put the effort into the whole package, Hair, makeup, accessories.
Hair styling and finding attractive eyeglasses that fit are my biggest hurdles.

OMG, I went on and on.

Lisa your threads always seem to get everyone thinking hard! They are often the longest on the forum at any given time. It’s great.
I wondered if you ever go back and read your old threads? Because I do notice that you seem to change your mind quite a lot over time about what you are aiming for? You did say you wanted a “reset” this year and I wondered if that was still true, and whether a low-buy year was still in contention?

Haven’t read all the replies, but have a couple thoughts. Often how we imagine our life through our clothing does not match our lifestyle or our body type. Finding common ground would make more sense, and it’s something I’ve had to make peace with as well. I can appreciate something on others without needing to wear it myself if it doesn’t work for me.

Like Jenni said above, it does seem like your wishes for your wardrobe do not always seem consistent. Perhaps mentally honing that process further will make your future purchases more satisfying.

Jenni and delurked : touché ! Yes , my ideas and wishes for my wardrobe never come about . I am indeed all over the place , and usually buying new clothes is something I do to assuage boredom , frustration or loneliness . I end up with a bunch of crap doesn’t meet my standards , and the cycle starts again . I need to keep my musings about it to myself

No, Lisa, you do not need to keep your thoughts/musings to yourself! Look, you provoked a three page thread and quite a bit of self-reflection among YLF. But please, don’t beat yourself up so much. Bruises, whether black, blue or yellow, IMHO will never look stylish.

Keep writing and posting - not everyone have already figured out all the style/wardrobe directions in life. Things change and so do we ( in some way ). The emotional stories, wishful thinking, lifestyle changes, occasional venting, bright ideas - that's all important part of the great forum YLF.

Lisa - I relate plenty to many things you post. It’s not necessary to keep your musings to yourself. We are just trying to help you get to a place where you will be happier with your results.