I believe that there are many ways of being appealing to the eye and some are conventional, while others are not. There are just as many ways to describe what is appealing--from pretty to 'belle laideur' (beautiful ugliness) as there are ways of being attractive.

For the record, I've been called 'pretty'. Probably due to slender limbs and a small face conveying some aspect of 'delicate' though I am strong and athletic. I don't consciously try for pretty, but I sure try for stylish, attractive, appealing. And, if someone feels compelled to give a compliment..."why thank you very much!"

(Boromir-Sean Bean (sigh) and Alan Rickman (bigger sigh) I even liked him as Snape...)

Wow. What an interesting thread.

Most important things first... Aragorn. Absolutely Aragorn.

Personally, I don't feel like I strive to look or be anything. Above all, I want to feel like me, and when I feel the most authentic, I feel the prettiest. I don't mind the word, mostly because it is always delivered as a compliment. I just don't think that people often stop to dissect it. There might be 50 other words that they could use in the moment, but it is often the easiest (and safest feeling) way to express pleasure over a woman's appearance. That might also be the reason why people sometimes react to others rejecting something because it is "too pretty". The assumption may be that you don't want to look attractive due to deeper feelings of worth, etc. The reality is that by bring true to your edgy UWP persona, you are absolutely... Pretty, and beautiful, and confident, and striking...

The other thing that dawned on me as I read every comment was that it sort of feels like everyone is saying the same thing... Or rather, filling in all of the pieces of a puzzle to make a perfect whole.

Oh, and Aragorn... Or Faramir, please.

Oh, and if we want to get into how to take compliments that are worded in a way that could be taken...well, awkwardly, at least? Last weekend I was referred to as a MILF. Notably, by a gay male friend. LOL How can I be offended by that?

Wow wow wow! I'm late to the pretty party!

First of all, Una, this is a great thread you started here! I've been reading the responses and learning the different perspectives of "pretty". I think it's time I chime in and share my own

I aim for pretty. 100% with full guns blazing (whaaaat?). My style is constantly shifting (and still is), and I can sometimes wear some of the RATE-est outfits (in my standards) and still aim for that feeling of looking and feeling pretty.

So what is pretty to me? It is when I look at the mirror, and somehow, the face I see is smiling back at me. Satisfied. Proud. Confident. Feeling like a total woman. That, to me, is pretty

I know I said I wouldn't comment again, but I had to publicly join Carla in a *sigh* for Alan Rickman - yes, even as Snape.

OMG are we debating LOTR hotties here?

FARAMIR.

His features are absolutely not my type but - there's something really attractive about him.

And lol Janet - MILF? that's cute! And I think in that context - I don't think being called a MILF is offensive. At least IMO.

Angie, thank you. With the gravest misgivings, and only because alaskagirl asked me to rejoin the conversation, I will make a few additional, hopefully not too controversial comments.

First, the word "pretty" seems to have different meanings based on the age of the user. For those of us who were teenagers in the 50s, pretty was definitely a complement. I understand that women who are much younger than I am may not understand that in the 1950s there were no socially acceptable choices of ways to look. You were pretty or you weren't. Those of us who marched in the streets with Betty Friedan and others, as I did, tried to change the world. We may have had some success but, as some of you have just pointed out, we haven't always managed to update our vocabulary to the present time.

And now to get back to the purpose of this blog. Alaskagirl, If you don't feel comfortable in the floral tee shirt, please return it. But I want you to know that you look great in it. I am a busy person and I usually write brief comments, so I didn't go into details about the tee shirt, but I want you to know that I especially like the colors and the way they complement your coloring. But if you're not comfortable in it, please don't keep it.

My two cents: For me, pretty has a connotation of less powerful, and perhaps less confident, femininity. In my professional days I wanted to look powerful, even intimidating, although I admit I often felt not quite so powerful. Would you call Earth Mother, or Mother Nature "pretty?" I think of these female types as powerful, and not necessarily in a masculine way.

Like Joy, I grew up in the 50s and I remember that girls were urged to try for prettiness, and not necessarily great beauty. (The beautiful women in the movies often came to a bad end.) I was tall, skinny, and smart, and while I was happy if anyone said I looked pretty, I wanted to be chic, glamorous, and strong. (I was none of those things, but I had my dream.) I certainly felt that the "prettiness" of the cheerleaders was never within my reach, so I substituted something else.

I don't get offended if DH says I look pretty--I know he has good intentions, usually. After all, he is also rooted in the 50s.

Catnip: I just wanted to say that I'm so glad you chimed in. I enjoyed what you had to say, and I assumed that this was where you were coming from all along.

As one who bats for Team Pretty, I wanted to chime in on the concept of "pretty = less powerful." One of the things I enjoy about my style is the contrast between my pretty/colorful/whimsical clothes and the fact that anybody who spends any time with me at all is left with no doubt whatsoever that I am a strong, powerful woman. (Skeptical? Ask the five men who participated in yesterday's divorce mediation with me! ) One of my mantras is "underestimate me at your peril," and I feel like looking pretty and feminine at the same time I am indisputably strong and powerful is very satisfying. It keeps people on their toes. And it says I can embrace both the traditionally feminine and traditionally masculine parts of my personality, which I think is a very powerful combination.

I'm coming into this thread late, so maybe everything important has been said already. I count myself in the camp that doesn't strive for pretty, either in my overall look or in individual pieces. I think of pretty as one of those words that describes your looks, primarily, like beautiful - in other words, the things that are mostly genetic and you can't do a whole lot about, anyway. I was an awkward kid, lanky and too tall and not particularly graceful, so I was never pretty. If I strive for anything with my clothes and makeup besides aesthetic self expression, it's to look attractive, or put together. Someday I hope to become a jolie laide, or perhaps "a handsome woman".

I do think pretty has become loaded for lots of us with associations with traditional femininity and all the baggage that comes with it. Pretty doesn't mean weak, these days, but neither is it particularly closely associated with powerful or strong or any of those words.

Of course, if someone compliments me with pretty, I will be pleased and say thank you, taking it in the spirit in which it's intended.

Janet, there was a kerffuffle recently about a company trying to redefine the word MILF for an advertising campaign - I can't remember the details unfortunately, what item they were selling. But it was very wink wink nudge nudge and they got a lot of grief for it, justifiably so, I thought. In a casual situation with a friend it's more of a compliment - hey, you're hot, I can imagine lots of people wanting to have sex with you. We're so weird in this society about older women and sex; we have to talk about cougars and MILFs as if a woman being sexually attractive over the age of 30 is so shocking.

MaryK you sound pretty "badass" and it shows (I hope you don't find the word badass offensive because it's not!) yes, you may be wearing outfits that are conventionally "pretty" but your tendency towards bold colours shows the powerful woman within!

It has never occurred to me to aim for pretty, beautiful, sexy, or even feminine. Hmmmm. Coral is probably one of my most flattering colors of all time because whenever I wear coral (instead of black or gray, ha, ha, ha), I get compliments. But a part of me resists coral because it feels a bit too feminine. . . .I am short with a round face with a tendency to look more cute than any other flattering adjective, so yeah, I think that's the genesis for wanting to look more powerful. That, and on my first job out of college, my boss patted me on my head. Made me want to kick him where it would hurt the most.

My style descriptors are fun, arty, urban prince with the *fun* more likely to come out in S/S and urban prince in F/W; I need only one of the three to be reflected for an outfit to feel like me. I suppose if a fun look isn't too quirky it can be almost pretty.

In answer to the question, I never did but I want to start. I want to resolve my conflicts with "pretty." I want to try for pretty because I am admitting to myself that I want that at least as much as I want to be chic or elegant.

I too am confused about what "pretty" is and am trying to figure out what it means apart from bows and ruffles. But Angie is a great starting point because it's clear she's pretty and that her outfits are pretty but not stereotypically so.

I understand what the OED is saying but that's only part of it. I have a dog that is gorgeous, striking, unconventional and elegant--and often men will say, "Oh, that's a PRETTY dog!" Just like they'll say, "That's a sweet-looking dog," or just "Cool dog!" Women will be more descriptive. Men also say, "That dog looks fast," which women don't.

This is a really timely discussion for me. Thanks to all.

How could I forget? TEAM ARAGORN! I've been swooning over him since I was about 11 years old!

I wonder how much of our discomfort/cognitive dissonace (for those of us who have it) with applying the word "pretty" to ourselves ties in with whether it's a word we're used to hearing others use about us. I can count on one hand the number of times I can recall being referred to as "pretty." Two or three of those times were here on YLF <3

I think I'm the only one for Legolas!

Team Legolas!!

Alan Rickman in Truly Madly Deeply please

Just to add, I never felt insulted when I was told I was pretty. My problems come from people who think pretty is the gold standard, & assume I feel that way too.

Oh, wow. I spent an evening with friends drinking margaritas in the sun and come back to even more amazing food for thought. Am about to hit the sheets, but a couple of comments for now.

First, Catnip: thank you so much for checking in. I hoped you hadn't been chased off by the intense discussion here. Please know that I appreciated your kind compliment. Even if I were to be offended, I have a very thick skin as far as what people may say. But even more so, I appreciate anything that makes me think deeply and examine my own biases and assumptions and moves me forward in any way, be it compliment or critique.

Echo, thank you for being a strong voice for the other possible viewpoint, which I also thought out but decided not to express. Your points are well made and well taken by me, because I definitely thought about that perspective, although I didn't pursue it in this thread. You are always an outspoken advocate of a well-reasoned position!

Angie, I was waiting to see if you'd chime in. You always have a greater view that manages to encompass everyone.

Every single comment here has resonated with me in some way. I think I've gotten more mileage from this shirt than if I were to keep it.

More tomorrow. For now, Team Aragorn saying goodnight!

I have enjoyed reading all of these comments! A great discussion!

For the record, Boromir is hotness personified!!! A strong jaw, five o'clock shadow, strong, burly build...... Just like my husband- I think I have a type..... Hehehe!

Lol @ fz! Team Aragon here.

I am wearing pink on my nails today (my first ever pink nail paint!). But not the pretty pink ... Hot pink

That's so funny, Neel- I don't really identify with 'pretty' but have pastel and mid tone pink polish in my cupboard. No hot pink! Bwahaha! Is this complicated or am I obtuse? As others have mentioned, there is more than one 'pretty'!

A third for Legolas!

Still don't like pretty, but I concede there are those for whom pretty is perfect - and when I say they're pretty, I'm not trying to inform them they're awful. I suppose I should say that I come from people who don't showcase the pretty. I mean, we all have our drums to beat, and prettiness was just never one of them. My people beat the drum about other things: symmetry, harmony - which are components of pretty, but no one talks pretty. I'm aware, tho, that other people do spotlight it.

Am I the only one on team 'I have no clue what characters you all are referring to'?

Dear Deb: You just need to bit the bullet and do the Lord of the Rings marathon. Get some great snacks, a comfy blanket at girlfriends who grew up playing D&D to watch it with you!

Una: I rarely read these discussions in detail, just because of time, but I find myself reading and realizing that I've been operating under the idea that, for me, but not for others, pretty has an expiration date. I feel a signal, coming from my environment, I think, not from within, that, if I was ever to be pretty, that time has passed. I might try to look updated and put together, but that would have to suffice.

Have to go think this through............

Reading back over these, I decided that we are caught up in a semantics disconnect...Most of us are close to saying the same thing but we are clouded by other subjective responses...I appreciate Catnip's explanation of "pretty"
being used in a different decade, thus the definition takes on a different context...Mainly, we are wonderful women, supporting each other and being free to talk about our opinions and feelings...Never should the circle be closed to different opinions but rather open and inclusive of all who come...This is what makes YLF special, unique and precious...

Legolas is pretty

P.S. I wanted to be clear. I sometimes see other women my age or older as pretty, just not myself. I'm not sure why, or even that it's a bad thing. When I think of some of the most valuable women in my life, I find them beautiful because I love them, regardless of how others would see them.