Sal, yes indeed. You are very wise about the outsize emotional importance of dressing for meetings/conferences.

Fashintern, yes, I'm getting super excited to bring out my Nutcracker Suite capsule again! This year I'm hoping to add some peacock-themed prints, and metallics. It will be really interesting to see how the capsule and how I want to wear it has evolved since last year.

Re: those linked tunics: I think the Lord & Taylor is too short, and the phase-eight (GREAT sale!!) is too bright & warm for my color scheme. Sorry to shoot down your hard work! On the plus side, I ordered THREE tops yesterday, including this tunic that should be long enough to work with the leggings. Fingers crossed! I bet that adding just a couple such longer shirts will make me *feel* like that part of my wardrobe is much more functional.

Angie, you are too kind! I appreciate you circling back and clarifying -- but I didn't feel singled out. Good reminder though that all of us struggle with this from time to time.

Oh, good to know. Thanks, SarahD8.

I'm definitely not "there" yet, but I'll share what consistently helps to bring me closer: outfit photos! I learn ten times as much from a photo as I do from looking in a mirror.

Last week I put extra thought into choosing my outfit before driving into the city for an evening at the theater. On the way out the door I snapped a quick photo and only then did I realize the outfit was a fail. Too late to change and a good time was had by all anyway, but...take photos!

Thank you for starting (and to those for contributing to) such a great thread! I am learning so much from everyone’s comments.

Laura G, what did you see in the photo that you hadn’t noticed in the mirror? MaineLady recentlynmentioned not having realized how transparent a thing was. Other than that, I still don’t get how the pix tell anything more than a mirror.

Not Laura but I agree that a photo is different than the mirror - both can be inaccurate though. I do find proportions easier to pick in a photo - too dark on the bottom with opaque tights etc My camera is normally at waist height and most people are taller than that so it could be deceiving to a degree.

In a photo the main issues I recognise are length of tops, length of skirts or dresses, balance between jackets and pants, shoes not being right. I find the mirror better for face/hair/makeup though.

In some ways, I think a photo allows you to get out of yourself more than a mirror. A photo is a ‘cooler’ medium. It’s like the difference between seeing your kid every day and seeing their pictures... you don’t see them grow tall but it hits when you see those photos from different years.

I think photos are useful in a "hindsight is 20/20" sort of way. Looking at a WIW photo the day it was taken doesn't give me that much data, but seeing a photo from a year ago is very valuable. Similar to what rachylou is saying about looking at pictures of one's kids. It's quite interesting to compare WIWs from the same season but different years; you can really pick out your own tendencies and distinguish them from trends/flavor-of-the-month obsessions.

Even just uploading a series of photos taken over the course of a week or a month also gives me a perspective I wouldn't have otherwise, so the "looking back" effect can be achieved pretty quickly, I think. And it's something I can't get from just getting dressed and looking in the mirror. Agree with Sal that the mirror is better for certain things like hair and make-up but that might be because I'm such a minimal-effort person in those departments.

(Sorry if we're derailing your thread, SarahD8!)

No worries at all, it's a really interesting discussion!

Actually I was just looking back at photos from last year's holiday capsule and it was interesting to realize that I'm excited to wear some outfits again pretty much as is, and others I wouldn't wear now at all.

Fashintern - I saw
--light pants/dark top visually cutting me in half (and I'm already half size)
--the flats I substituted for the high heeled pumps the cat peed in didn't work with the shape and length of the pants
--belted low-rise jeans made my long torso look even longer and short legs look even shorter

But really the only way to tell the difference is to try it...just thinking about it, I agree it doesn't make sense that you would get so much more information from a photo.

Hi again Sarah, I've been thinking about your thread on and off for 3 days while travelling. I rewrote my lists this morning as I was going to go shopping in the resort area of Bali we are staying in, and I was pondering how I would decide what if anything I would get. I can be more flexible now my wardrobe is in a better shape. It is down to 166 items from nearer 200 when I joined YLF almost 2 years ago, and my holding zone and sentimental section ( which is additional) is also reduced. I think tracking has done the most for me to really see what I do wear and how much, and the choices of this year have been much more spot on than previously. For instance, snakeskin olive pants which I pondered for 11 months. I thought they would fit a colour I like (olive), a shape ( skinny), and have some extra oomph from the texture/pattern. And since March when I bought them, they have had 49 wears. I have several tops that suit them- black and olive. They are the perfect length for my also new this year flat fringed ankle boots. The stars aligned. And I think I can sort of see better when that will happen after these 2 years of tracking and trying to figure out my style which is still not quite determined. In shopping today I could see all the same things drawing me that usually do and have gathered general ideas for a small summer resort capsule. But there was nothing I had to have, and I could see I am pretty well covered for such needs. So I think patience has helped, and the feeling of being able to wait, if already quite well served. And if something really sings to me, I will ponder it for a bit but maybe not too long, if I can look at my lists and see how it will fill either a hole or just bring some extra zing. Keep working on it! You'll get there to a better functioning wardrobe.

I need to go back and read everyone's posts, but like Suz, it took lots longer than I thought it would. A big weight loss started the ball rolling on how to replace everything. I had to give up on the idea that I could establish the perfect wardrobe and that would be it. It will always be a work in progress. Even classics can get dated. It helped me to have a base of a column or two of a neutral for each season to which it is easy to add an unexpected find. The workhorse pieces can then be updated pretty easily. Updating footwear is important.

Rereading, I’m still not quite sure what the problem is precisely. Is it that you can’t find what you’re wanting to buy? Or that you have items but you can’t figure out outfits? Or that you have outfits but they don’t suit your needs or you don’t feel like they suit you? I feel like all of those are things that can happen and have different causes and solutions, although they’re obviously connected.

My first reaction when reading the title question was “plenty of times, but not for long.” Stuff is always changing: my budget, my body, my lifestyle, the climate, what’s in stores, what wears out in my closet... I don’t think you ever get to a point where everything is perfect forever - maybe celebrities get close because they can offload the work to someone else, but their demands are probablygreater too.

I thought my wardrobe was pretty good before finding YLF, but looking back some flattery was missing. Then I made a lot of improvements, made easier by my budget increasing, and I was pretty settled for a while. Then my climate and lifestyle changed and my budget decreased and I’ve had to focus a lot more on practicality instead of aesthetics. Hopefully soon my budget will increase but probably the time I’ll have available will decrease significantly. There’s always something, you know? I think getting to wardrobe nirvana and staying there is an unrealistic expectation.

Thanks Lara G, la Ped, Sal, & Rachylou for your replies re photos vs mirror.
Keeping them and reviewing to see changes over time makes sense to me. I wish I could keep pix on my phone without them showing up in my camera roll!
The specific examples of what people see were also helpful—and reminded me that when I posted the WIW of the green pants, pink sweater, & red shoes, I noticed that I had been incorrect in thinking that the bra I had on looked OK.

LauraG that makes sense re: the usefulness of a photo. I can imagine that some folks might notice the things you mention when looking in the mirror while for others it's the layer of abstraction provided by the photo that does the trick. Similar to how some folks notice items they wear a lot as they go along whereas for others it's wear tracking that yields these insights. Just depends on our different eyes and different brains. Horses for courses, if I might be so bold as to channel Angie for a brief moment.

JenniNZ, that's really generous of you to be thinking about my questions while you are on your holiday! Interesting that your wardrobe has become more functional as the # of items has shrunk, but I totally believe it. It's reassuring to hear that you ponder items, sometimes for a long time, before actually purchasing them. Great that the olive snakeskin pants were such a success! That's the idea isn't it, that the things we buy should truly add value to our closet. Would love to hear more about your resort capsule if you work on it further.

Joy that makes sense. It sounds like the column of color was a key insight for you.

Laura, what exactly is the problem? It's a good question! The proximate problem is that I've noticed that even though I know how I want to dress and the individual items in my closet feel like they're in line with that, I have trouble actually making outfits with ease. What's the underlying reason for that? After taking in the discussion on this thread I think it's probably a combination of (1) having a very specific idea of what I want, so things that tick all the boxes are harder to find, and (2) my personal difficulty with actually taking action/following through on purchases. I feel better now about the idea that things might take a while to fall into place, and also about the likelihood that there's going to be some trial and error involved. You and Joy both make a good point about things always being a work in progress. I'd love to get to the point where I feel like I'm solving a limited number of problems at one time though, you know?

I have the same problem making outfits from my wardrobe easily. Even though they should mix and match because I have chosen the individual items with care and attention to color, style, and fit, they don't always look good together. I need to help each new article of clothing find it's friends and document the combo, in my case, with a photo. This takes time and takes away the spontaneity that I would love to have but in my case it is necessary.

If you’re having trouble creating outfits, it could be that focusing on accessories would help. For me, I know that figuring out a set of shoes/bag/earrings (or whatever else on bottom, middle and top of body) that works for lifestyle and climate AND desired style is key. Then I can add that “set” to any basic outfit and it looks more pulled together.

This could be a color story: you want to lookcozy so you pull together brown suede boots, cognac angora gloves and a rusty brown tweed cap. Or could be a style story: for me, pointy boots and a studded belt and enormous earrings add quick “edge” to just about anything.

Jessikams: I like this idea of style stories. I want to try it... I guess I kinda do it with my woolly beanie and scarf in winter....
This kinda overlaps a tiny bit with what I was saying about how important having completer pieces is- they take clothes up a notch to an outfit. Also the trickiest because a person needs to consciously think about, plan and purchase those completer pieces/style story pieces...

Sarah, as I am reading so many interesting and thoughtful responses, I recalled something that may be relevant, or not. You repeatedly say that you know what you want your style to be, have a well defined picture in your mind....purchase pieces that are in line with this, etc. However, is that really the right style for you? Maybe that’s the inherent problem. I know I have felt certain something is “my style” and dove down the rabbit hole only to find I was clawing my way out and looking for another entry. I think someone else said that style is a moving target, which changes as you change, but that’s not exactly what I mean here because my curiosity is more about whether your certainty is accurate. Using myself as an example, before I joined YLF, I was absolutely convinced my body was pear shaped. (Some of you may recall that lightbulb moment when I realized otherwise). I had been told I was pear shaped for years by my mother, and almost nothing could dissuade that notion. I followed the advice for dressing like a pear, and something just didn’t seem right, but I was still absolutely convinced until Angie corrected that distortion. Funny that I have a rectangular shape and IT tendencies! The advantage of photos for me is they take away the distortion in our mind. They may add some other proportion distortion, but it may not be as bad as what we can imagine ourselves into. My example is a bit embarrassing and extreme, and may not apply, but sometimes we think we are being honest with ourselves and following our heart, but something else, maybe so,etching unknown, is preventing that from happening.

Staysfit, I don’t mean to laugh at your former self (or your mother), but you as a pear? Yowza, is that off!

Sarah - what a wonderful thread, thank you so much for starting it!! I am only half way through the responses and am looking forward to reading them carefully (thank you all - what amazing reading and insight) but I wanted to chime in. Like you I have a very well defined aesthetic and idea of how I want to dress. When my wardrobe is not working it is because I lack pieces to complete outfits. I have a huge problem finding interesting light weight summer blazers in black/gray/pear/white combos. Yes, I have 5 pr of black danskin leggings but they are all the same. I would kill to add something different which I liked, but can't find. I also wear tunics the ideal is 33" I can use from 31"35" they must be black/gray, combo or a short mini dress. I can't find them easily. My winter tunics are more numerous than summer. But how many EF scooped neck jersey or silk tunics in black can I own? Black skirted leggings I have 3 of the same. So I concentrate on capsules, do I have all the pieces and enough of the pieces to make a capsule or outfit style work. I also use the "formula" concept. The pieces I require are highly specific and not always available. So like long blazers I need to stock up in the good years so I can survive the fashion famines. I also find mentally doing the pie chart of what kinds of activities/outfits and making sure I have those covered. I did find there was a tipping point. About 5 yr into YLF I had finally updated enough items and created enough diversity across my wardrobe that things began working to for me. The most helpful thing is to keep a list of HEWI's. The cropped vee neck sweater in gray and black, long jackets, textured leggings/jods, tunics etc. Know your needs, assess all new things and trends - can you use this, possibly not as intended to fill a niche, elegance is refusal - don't get sucked into stuff that you love on others but is not your styles, don't not buy something because someone else has a poison eye - they have no idea how or what you are going to do with it, be picky on quality - the better clothing feels the happier I am. Work around what you don't have and don't stress that you don't have everything right now. But if you are having trouble creating outfits I would assess the amount and quality of the support acts, do you have enough super start, what piece of the puzzle is giving you trouble? can you not find what you really want? That's usually the problem for me. Hope that it helps.

Hah, exactly what Laura(rhubarbgirl) said it for me:

"..."plenty of times, but not for long.”....Stuff is always changing: my budget, my body, my lifestyle, the climate, what’s in stores, what wears out in my closet..."
But I still remember the happiness when "it clicked" for the first time...a few years of actually spending time and money on my wardrobe...and when all I have had matched my other things and event the right way...It really was a happy dance. Then, the bittersweet aftertaste... "I don’t think you ever get to a point where everything is perfect forever" but that's OK, I love clothes and fashion....:-)

ETA: I do have and stick to my few silhouettes and outfit formulas, but the problem is that they require different elements, I cannot use the same tops or shoes for skirts and pants-so I cannot do always Anchie's capsules of 4x4 so easy but they appeal to me so very much and when in the end I reach that level (even unconsciously or rather to say from another point of view and consideration) it really causes a "clicks in" feeling:-).

Staysfit, I know exactly what you mean and used to think the same; I suspect a lot of women with smaller busts and narrow waists mis-identify as pears because they feel their hips are their most prominent feature. It didn't occur to me until just a couple years ago, when I got into tailored jackets and blazers, to take my shoulder measurement. It was only once I had that number that I realized my shoulders, not my hips, are my widest part (both span and circumference). Major eye-opener! I also find Angie's term "athletic hourglass" (width from the shoulders, rather than the bust) to be hugely useful and one I hadn't heard pre-YLF.

Athletic hourglass-light bulb! I thought i was a pear too due to my curvy hips and bum, and small chest, but my shoulders are defined.
Thanks LaPed!

Sarah, I haven't had a change to read this whole thread (I will!), but wanted to comment; hope I'm not being too repetitive. First of all, high five for team ponder and plan ... I believe strongly this is an innate personality type (or whatever terminology you want to use) and I have switched my attitude on it a little to appreciate this as part of the fun for me ... that said, I know the feeling of being 'stuck' in the pondering phase, so I feel your frustration.

For me, what's really helpful is to remind myself that it's all an ongoing, evolving process ... the challenge sometimes for us analyzers, is that we devise the perfect solution, and then want to get there immediately, and then can see it as failure if we move off the mark ... it's a form of perfectionism I suppose. To affirm that you are an evolving being, and your wardrobe is part and parcel of that, can be very freeing. And of course, give yourself plenty of grace when lifestyle and other issues get in the way. Looking forward to reading yours and everyone's thoughts through this thread; hope I'm not way off with these comments! xx

Nodding with Staysfit and LaPed. I was another who thought myself a "pear" because of thighs/ bottom and small bust. But hey, shoulders!

This is what I’ve always understood “pear” shape to mean—carrying weight in your butt and thighs, colloquially referred to as being “thik” or having a booty,
https://pin.it/dj4qbasmephn5k

Sarah D8 and Torontogirl,
Count me into the "analysis paralysis" group!
You think logically about all the lifestyle details, the budget details, the colors, the trends, the personal preferences, the pairings with the current closet.
But actually making that purchase is so difficult!
Author Gretchen Rubin talks about these personality behaviors quite a bit: Underbuyer vs. Overbuyer, and Maximizer vs. Satisficer.
Underbuyers have a huge problem with actually purchasing something, and will even live with chronic laundry or grocery shortfalls because they hate to buy too many clothes, or buy toothpaste until they've cut open the tube to scrape out the last bits. Overbuyers think the most fun part of a new project or job or activity is the chance to purchase all the exciting new kit.
Satisficers do just enough research about a purchase to feel like it will satisfy the need, then buy without a second glance. They often end up spending more than they'd like, or not getting the exact mix of features they want, but they usually don't dwell or regret. We maximizers have to do spreadsheets and regional price comparisons, match all possible usages, read all reviews. We often end up not getting what we really want because it's sold out by the time we get up the nerve to actually go out to the store to buy!

Ok... sidebar/peanut gallery comment... I’ve never thought of cutting the toothpaste tube open... and feel that’s brilliant. Lol!

More peanuts:
Somebody’s got me pegged. (The other part is in the trash, now that I’ve scraped it out with my toothbrush a couple times). I wasn’t making spreadsheets about toothpaste, but am certainly familiar with the research taking so long the thing is over before I arrive.

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