What is frumpy, really? - YouLookFab Forum

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What is frumpy, really?

Peri

Veteran

Like most women 50+...hey, maybe even 30+...I live in fear of being frumpy. My best friend and I discuss this at least weekly. The problem is, a lot of it seems to be in the eye of the beholder.

Case in point...those jeans Alaskagirl linked. I'd say frumpy...they sure would be if I put them on. Seemed like most posters did not like them either. But that's generally not a frumpy store and the buyer must have thought they were great.

Another case...my friend's critical daughters. They sent her to buy an oversized chunky knit sweater, very trendy this winter. But because she picked pale pink they said it was frumpy. Why? Because they didn't personally like the color. Also, according to them (20ish years old) , anything Ann Taylor, Talbots, or WHBM is automatically frumpy because those are old lady stores. So is dressing in any style a 20 something wouldn't like automatically frumpy?

I would have considered pants that bag and don't fit to look frumpy, but now there is some growing love for slouchy.

See where I'm heading?! How can I be sure I don't look frumpy when the definition of what is frumpy seems half fluid and the other half personal taste?

General

41 replies

Latest reply was from ironkurtin

catgirl

Veteran

Yes, that's kind of my dilemma. Is my mom right on trend now, because she would wear those pants (if they were under $30)? Not that I'd mind... it's just that sliding scale. When do things like PPL cease to matter in the world of high fashion? Are these frumpy? Is nothing frumpy if styled "right"? Great thread, Peri!

http://www.shopbop.com/actions.....Button.y=0

adorkable

Veteran

I'm amused by the classification of Ann Taylor as frumpy - every single item of work-appropriate clothing I owned in my early 20s came from Ann Taylor or LOFT (okay, okay, or Banana Republic).

Glory

Veteran

I am so clueless in this area and also live in fear of Frumpitis. Every time I buy something new my children tick one of two boxes: 1. trying to hard to look young or 2. frumpy. I would love some clear rules to follow in this area.

Peri

Veteran

What is PPL?

I was the most surprised by the classification of WHBM as old lady. I always thought that store leaned to sexy, young, and too much in most items for most offices. How is that old lady?

Yes, the whole issue is beyond puzzling!

cciele

Veteran

So frumpy is something one assumes a typical dresser of older generations would wear?

Ingunn

(website)

Veteran

WHBM?

I think the frump factor is depending on a lot of variables: Age, body shape, style, haircut/color, outfit elements, accessories, shoes etc. None of these are frumpy in themselves, but the mix could be. An example: A Chanel bouclé jacket would easily look more edgy on a young woman, and would need more styling to become successful (ie not frumpy) on a middle aged woman. Many of us pull it off too, for sure!

I have three daughters aged 19, 16 and 14, and they tend to be very appreciative of my outfits, although my style is way more classic than their boho/grunge/retro style. They will also let me know when I'm astray - too juvenile or too frumpy.

Greek Goddess

it's difficult to pin down exactly what frumpy is..my husband describes it as the ''traditional granny look'' or looking old before your time lol. I bought a new dress and the first word that came to him was frumpy. I liked the colour but he hated the loose fit and long skirt to it. Unfortunately you can't return things here unless they are damaged so it is going to be passed on to someone it will look better on than me. One of my friends described frumpy as being ''what you would wear when you feel fat and depressed and can't be bothered '' I guess that is a good enough description for me to picture it in my mind.

ironkurtin

Veteran

Frumpy is in the details, or rather, a combination of details. It is about fit and fabric.

Isis

Veteran

Frumpy is in the eye of the beholder.

To my daughter Ann Taylor, Talbots, or WHBM are definitely frumpy.

In fact, to my daugher (17 yrs old) most everything on YLF is frumpy, conservative, and a little boring. (and probably would be on her)

Mia

Veteran

White House/Black Market?

I ask my teenage boy if my outfit works when in doubt. He has a great eye and is brutally honest!

I find that the high/low concept of dressing can help one stay out of frumpville. It is so individual though. My mother dresses mainly from Talbots but we throw in a little H & M and at almost 80 is definitely not frumpy. Actually she is just finding her groove fashion wise.

Anonymous

Ah, I walk a fine line between classic and frumpy. To me, a item is not frumpy on it's own, it depends on how you style it, also on the materials and fit.

I do have a low tolerance for frump in shoes. I always look for unique details, especially on lower heel shoes. I think my outfits are generally "saved" by my shoes and accessories.

Una, the pants you linked to are not frumpy, to my eye, they are a slimmer version f culottes, which are fab.

Gaylene

Veteran

It seems to me that the term "frumpy" can mean anything from "how long ago did you buy that?", to "not what I'd choose to wear", to "that doesn't look good on you", and several points in between. I've been thinking about this term after reading the responses to my thread on trends vs. personal style and here's my current thoughts:

Labeling something, or someone, as "frumpy", "trying too hard" , or any other disparaging term, is just another way of expressing a personal bias; it's a judgmental statement that actually says more about the speaker than what is being judged. And it can result in a narrow type of thinking that makes older women feel that Zara is a "young person's store" and teenagers think that BR is an "old person's store".

I think a more useful term when it comes to assessing a person's style or outfit might be "dated" since it's easier to describe more precisely why a particular cut or silhouette might not be working as well now as it did in the past. A "dated" look could still work, especially if the person was young and the item was worn in an ironic way. On an older body, though, a "dated" look may not have that ironic connotation and the intentionality would be lost.

milehighstyle (Linda)

Veteran

I think it's the total package rather than the individual item. Every example I think of that could be a frumpy item or look I've seen styled somewhere in a cool way. But since 75% of my wardrobe is from Ann Taylor I probably am not the one to answer this question

Mo

(website)

Veteran

I think frumpy is a viable, useful word, if maybe it does also have negative connotations. I also think what is frumpy to a 20 year old may be smashing, of the moment, to a 50 year old. That's okay and it actually makes sense. We often remark about dressing appropriately for one's age and so it would follow that what you find appropriate at 20 is very different than what your eye sees as pleasing 30 years later. Perhaps the young ladies referred to in the post are replacing conservative with frumpy unwittingly. I consider all the above named stores conservative, and I'm 43.

ironkurtin

Veteran

To me frumpy is different than dated. Dated means you're wearing an outdated silhouette or style. Frumpy is never HAVING a style. It's shapelessness without stylish intent.

rachylou

Veteran

Eh, well I don't want to upset anyone, but I would say AT, WHBM, and Talbots stores are frumpy, but the clothing isn't really.

Anonymous

I agree with Ironkurtin. Frumpiness is the absence of style. It's looking like you have no clue how to put an outfit together.

Thistle

Veteran

Frumpy = appropriate office wear based on this definition.

Sorry, but it's true. When you are in High School or college you can wear ripped denim and short skirts and its okay. You do it in the office, and your boss has a sit down with you. If it is too egregious, you get sent home to change. And is that really how you want to be known in your office?

catgirl

Veteran

How does the Man Repeller fit into this (the idea being that men would find her high fashion looks repelling)? Is frump in the eye of the beholder?

I know women who consider my refusal to show cleavage a form of frumpiness, or at least stodgy in some way.

Mo

(website)

Veteran

Thistle, I have to respectfully disagree. I'd say Janet Reno dressed frumpily, but totally office appropriate.

4babiesMe

Interesting thread. To me, when I think about "frumpy" I think of the days (and there have been way too many for me in the last 7 years) where I just don't care or make any effort to put myself together. To me, it's throwing on my old, ill-fitting, stained sweatshirt, jeans, yoga pants, or DH's t-shirts and not giving a second thought to style. It's also not putting any effort in doing my hair & makeup. To me, it's the appearance of not caring. I definitely think "frumpy" has a different meaning for everyone.

jayne

Veteran

I have been frumpy, didn't have a clue how to dress, didn't care to try since I was pretty overweight.

I am not frump anymore. I have clothes that fit, I pick colors that flatter and I accessorize (maybe too much). I don't follow what the others in my age group wear to work or out, and I try to avoid stores that seem somehow not following any trends. I think a hint of modern and a hint of a trend is needed, but not overboard of course!

Gaylene

Veteran

interesting discussion here.

Defining "frumpy" as the "absence of style" is questionable. Is the perceived "absence" a reflection of my not adhering to your sensibilities as to what is stylish? As for the other definitions, exactly how does an outside observer determine the degree of "stylish intent" or "lack of caring"? If I'm a fashion blogger, hectic pattern mixing is stylish, but, if I'm homeless, it's something else? And if shapelessness becomes the critical factor, does that mean that figure flattery is all important?

I think I'm sticking with my contention that calling something "frumpy" says more about the commentator's sensibilities than the outfit. If the comment comes from someone who has expertise, it might have some value, but I'd still need an understandable follow-up that articulated more precisely what was not working. Otherwise a label like "frumpy" is nothing more than an inarticulate negative judgement--best handled with a response like "whatever".

RoseandJoan

Veteran

To me frumpy is joyless dressing, dated can show an enthusiasm for a style gone by but frumpy appears to take no pleasure in clothing aside from the practical element of covering ones body.

One frumpy item does not equal frumpy style IMO.

By this definition a teenager may find AT frumpy if they would gain no joy from wearing the clothes.

Anonymous

I don't think corporate equals frumpy. I do wear fairly corporate attire but I add a little amount of incospicuous flair, it can be in my shoes, the way I do my hair etc. My goal is to add some individuality that can only be seen when is not there. I don't think anyone has ever called me frumpy.

Also, frumpy depends on where you are and who your crew is. I cannot go back to Colombia wearing oversized clothes because loose tops = frumpy. Rita cannot go to a Russian banquet wearing a below the knee loose fitting dress = frumpy.

Side note : My stylish 18 year old - just voted best dressed senior btw, has gotten things from Ann Taylor, Banana Republic and all of the " frumpy stores". I see lots of young women buying items from frumpville.

Astrid

Veteran

Very interesting how different the term can be defined. When I do use 'frumpy' when I ask about possible clothes or outfits I mean 'altbacken'. That's one translation the dictionary gives me for 'frumpy'. The other is 'ohne jeden Schick' which means 'without any chic at all'. And 'altbacken' can be translated as 'frumpy' and 'dowdy'. Maybe dowdy is the better term for what I'm normally asking for...

Mia

Veteran

From the urban dictionary:

A female with lack of concern for appearance. Often characterized by sweatpants, frizzy hair, gramma panties and a pasty complexion.

I have frizzy hair all the time but hopefully not all four at once. Oh, wait a second.
Lol

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Fascinating discussion. I do not think I have anything much to add but I wanted to thank you, Peri, for raising the subject and giving us an opportunity to think about it. After reading everyone's thoughts I feel even further from a full understanding of what frumpy might be! My online dictionary shows us why:

Frumpy: dowdy, frumpish, unfashionable, old-fashioned; drab, dull, homely, shabby, scruffy. ANTONYMS fashionable

Well, this encompasses ALL the things various people have been saying. So no wonder we can't entirely agree.

I do think that teenage girls have their own style parameters that don't necessarily apply to those of us who are a bit older. I also think that -- much as I love them and the energy they bring to fashion -- they are not NECESSARILY the best arbiters of true style.

Peri

Veteran

Thank you for all the answers! Wonderful discussion!

It seems like the real answer is that there isn't one...which is actually a little comforting. I don't have to be so concerned about someone's judgement because it is so much opinion based. I like the answer that calling someone frumpy says more about the speaker than the accused!

I think I'm going to try to use Angie's happiness factor as a kinder and better guide than worrying about whether someone will call me frumpy.

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