Tim Gunn's advice and comments - YouLookFab Forum

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Tim Gunn's advice and comments

catgirl

Veteran

So I'm just going to start by saying I really dislike Tim Gunn. I actually dislike any men who don't have to wear their recommendations telling women what to wear in such a judgmental way. ("Higher heels make your legs look so much better", for example.)

How do you feel about this video - the message of not adding 5 pounds in particular? I have to say, it makes me feel like telling Tim Gunn off. But is he really just talking about looks for which he has a poison eye?

The comments are what I found most interesting, since to me Yahoo comments reflect the (often unfortunate) majority opinion. Just about all of them say they don't care about adding 5 pounds, they just want to be comfortable.

Would love to know what Fabbers have to say!

http://shine.yahoo.com/video/f.....00827.html

Dressing

54 replies

Latest reply was from milehighstyle (Linda)

milehighstyle (Linda)

Veteran

I get what you're saying, Una, about men telling women how to dress, but I really love Tim Gunn. I agree with the capri pant and mid calf skirt being unflattering to a lot of (although not all) women. The baggy thing, at least in the examples he shows here, did not look bad to me. I understand what he meant by the scale of the florals, but again his photo example could have been better. That being said, I also understand that not everyone is focused on figure flattery. I'm not 100% of the time either. But I also think that a lot of women don't have the basic understanding of what does look good or what could look better on them. Meaning they really want to look their best but need a little guidance. I think these are the ones Tim is trying to help, not the women who are trying out different styles and silhouettes for fun. But yeah, 5 pounds, who really cares?

Anonymous

I'm indifferent about Tim Gunn but agree with Milehigh Linda about the capri pants and mid-calf skirts on the average woman out there who isn't paying attention. Maybe TG is doing them a service. His floral print advice seems off in that it may be the smaller sized woman who is overwhelmed, or maybe I misunderstood him. I also don't see why floral prints would be singled out from any other print.

Isabel

Veteran

Let me start off by saying that I really love Tim Gunn, too. I find that many, many fashion advise people try to be witty and funny, but it can be a bit biting. Like Stacy London and ..oh, I forget her partner's name on the show. But I like them both too. Sometimes I don't like their comments. In the end, they create some drama or people wouldn't watch.

I think that there is some good advice here, if that is one's goal. Though 5 lbs is so insignificant in my mind ( unless you are on a diet and have to lose it ! )

I do think that there is too much focus in fashion on making your body look
"different" instead of the best it can for what it actually is. The truth is that Angie feels the same way about capris and leg lengthening. But she is so much kinder about it.

I love the comment from the 70 year old woman who writes that she is short and shrinking as she writes her comment ! LOL !

Ingunn

(website)

Veteran

I find Tim Gunn interesting, but I don't know enough about what he represents to dislike - or like - him. However, I think such advice is acceptable as guidance only, not as "rules".

modgrl

(website)

Veteran

I think if we "didn't care" and "just wanted to be comfortable" we wouldn't be here on a fashion site! Sorry but I do agree with his recommendations... we have discussed them all at various times here on YLF.
1) midcalf wide pants - big no no! They can work in some certain combinations, if they are very tapered, shorter and worn with nude or high heels. Tricky!
2) midcalf skirts - tricky tricky! They can potentially be flattering but again you have to wear them with something waist defining and with heels or they are really dowdy.
3) floral prints - when worn in large scale they do make you look larger
4) oversized look - also tricky, can quickly look like PJ's unless there is some structure and tailoring somewhere in your outfit.
I understand what you mean about a man telling a woman how to dress but I don't think he is wrong!

Aziraphale

Veteran

Add me to the list of those who are not familiar enough with Tim Gunn to have much of an opinion about him. I've read his lists of fashion must-haves a few times; that's about it. But I think he is correct to say that women generally do not want to look shorter and fatter, despite all those comments to the contrary. I also must agree with all his points. Modgrl summed it up nicely. I wouldn't go so far as to say you can't wear any of those things unless you're a six-foot-tall string bean, but I do think that most women have to navigate the cropped pants/midi skirt/big floral waters carefully. We can wear these things, but we need to be aware of the visual illusions they create, and make sure to get the details right, or most of us DO look stumpier and heavier!

Mind you, if a person really doesn't care, all the power to them. Sometimes I admire people who are truly not vain.

Gaylene

Veteran

OK, let me start by saying that I don't like arbitrary banns on any type of clothing. To me, it's just stupid to quite wearing something that you enjoy because, somewhere, a fashion "expert" has given it a thumbs down. Nude hose, for example, has always been a fashion staple for me in certain situations; to insist that everyone had to go bare-legged all the time never made any sense to me.

Having put that on the table, though, I'm nodding in agreement with Tim Gunn's points. Putting trends and comfort aside, most of the garments to which he objects probably don't flatter most women for exactly the reasons he states. Capri cargo pants, floral prints, midi skirts, all-black outfits, and baggy clothes can look amazing on some people, but, too often, they just don't translate as well into the mainstream. There is a reason why designers and manufacturers show these clothes on tall, thin, young models.

But, I'm not sure that treating these garments as "fashion crimes" is right, either. Wearing clothes that make you feel happy and confident is important, but it is also useful to understand that what you see when you look in the mirror might not be seen in quite the same way by those who meet you in real life. With that knowledge, you can make your own decisions about whether or not capri cargo pants are something you want in your wardrobe.

Diana

Veteran

What Linda said. I think this is good advice if you don't really care about fashion but just want to look good/slim without thinking about it too much (which is true of many women). Obviously those of us here do care about fashion, otherwise we wouldn't be here. And "rules" are made to be broken, but you do have to understand why they are "rules" in the first place (i.e. why the capri pants make your legs look short, etc) in order to break them well. Plus there are a lot of nuances to these things - for example, capris and clamdiggers are not the same thing but I doubt that many women know or care to know this.

FWIW, I don't wear capri pants or mid-calf skirts, but I do wear florals and the oversized look, but I do try to do so in a way that is flattering to my particular figure. And there is a limit to what I will do for figure flattery -I'm sure I'd look better in 3 inch heels but I'm more interested in being able to walk.

Vildy

Veteran

Well, my son was a few minutes late and his cab was here, waiting at the wrong house several doors down. He asked me to go out and wave and beckon to him. So I did. A heck of a lot of these cabbies are surly and maybe he was a peach. Looked older than the usual run of cabbies. I stood and waved until I could see I caught his eye. I beckoned him forward. He smiled sappily at me and complied.

My first thought was, What am I wearing? Because I had been changing out the top portion of my outfit trying things with a grey stitched down pleated wool..... midi skirt. I had to look to see what I was wearing now! A floral sweater.

So that's 1. floral sweater and 2. midi skirt on a not long lean "good figured" woman. Actually my first thought had been: What am I wearing because I've got to wear it a lot more often!

Let's see, thin vs. sappy smiling cabbie? I'll take besotted cabbie any time.
There needs to be a fashion critic like that drive-in movie critic.

Although I've read a lot of Tim's stuff - but don't watch Project Runway - I take him with a grain of salt. In More magazine, it might be, there are two celebrities compared as to how they pull off a look. To my mind, he always votes for the more positively viewed celebrity.

This is to say, then, that Tim Gunn is not my audience when I dress.

Mamapicklejuice

Veteran

What modgrl said.

In addition, as someone who has put on 5 actual pounds (and is working to lose it), YES, five pounds DOES matter. It's challenging enough to work around an actual weight gain, I don't need to deal with my clothes bossing me around because they're either too tight (making me look heavier) or too oversized (making me look sloppy). If I didn't have Angie to guide me, and to remind me to 'dress the body I've got' I'd be lost!

Diana

Veteran

I should add that I do like Tim Gunn. I think he's clever, funny, and fun to watch. But I watch him for the entertainment value, not for fashion advice. He ain't no Angie!

catgirl

Veteran

Interesting! I do agree with his actual advice, as I suspect Angie and most YLFers would. Maybe it is just my contrary streak raising my hackles?? I don't watch fashion shows at all, I only saw this when checking my email. How is that Angie can be so kind and gracious in dispensing the same advice?

ClaraT

Veteran

I like Tim. He starts out by saying he doesn't like to talk about this type of thing--he'd rather accentuate the positive. He notes that these are things to avoid *IF* you want to look long and lean. On Project Runway, he is usually kind and tactful (and open-minded in terms of fashion).

Generalizations are just that--there are always exceptions. (Funny side note: I have camo capris with pockets that I wear for super-casual summer occasions with a tank. I am quite thin and wear them because they give me heft!)

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

Not sure I love fashion advice from a man either, but I'm not really that familiar with Tim. And there are always exceptions. I think when anyone gives advice in a slightly condescending manner it will not be taken to heart as much as it would if it were given in a truly considerate manner. That's why it's so nice here on YLF - no condescending tones.

Marley

Veteran

I am a Tim Gunn fan. He used to have a show on TV - it was a higher-concept "What Not To Wear" type of show - the women were not complete style messes to begin with, and he was much kinder, respectful, and inspiring than what Stacy and Clint are - although I get a kick out of them too!

If you notice at the very beginning of this video, Tim states that ordinarilly he does not do these type of "negative" interviews - he likes to focus on the positive. So, this is out of the ordinary for him to begin with. I think that with the topic that he had to discuss, that he did fine. Being someone who is on the short side, 5 lbs. makes a HUGE difference in how I look and feel, so I do appreciate his tips and agree with them!

I think that the women (who wrote in the comments) sound as though they have very little interest in looking their best - and would not be the type of client that Tim (or Angie) would ever find themselves working with!

Gaylene

Veteran

Una, I think Angie's biggest edge is not so much being nice (although, of course, she IS), but that she spends more time de-constructing and explaining exactly why the item or trend might be difficult to wear, as well as providing suggestions and tips for overcoming some of the issues. That is why we all learn so much here and can be more adventurous in what we wear.

cciele

Veteran

I also agree with Tim's advice. He could have given more info/advice but he seemed constrained timewise (not much constructive advice to be given in 2 minutes). Regarding the florals -- he said it was the scale of the print that needed to be addressed, which applies to all patterns, really. The rest of his "blunders" have certainly been addressed here many times on YLF!

rachylou

Veteran

Kinda off to the side here again, I have just one wee comment from the preppy peanut gallery: I was just sitting there watching Ali and Tim... and they are like the WASPiest people EVER. Ali knows it. Don't know about Tim. Ali wrote the cookbook I live by, The WASP Cookbook. "Open can of Campbell's tomato soup, pour yourself a gin. Open can of Campbell's chicken noodle, pour yourself a gin." It was like, OMG!!! The recipes grandma never wrote down!!

Anyways, so like I'm watching them and thinking they are like the WASPiest people ever because they are sitting around going on about 5 lbs. You know, the water weight you gain and lose over a day. WASPs love to do that. My neighbor and I talk about this and how, like, your mom and aunties and dad would be all, "EAT THIS LETTUCE! EAT THIS LETTUCE! YOU ARE A 100 LBS! YOU NEED TO GET DOWN TO 95 LBS!!!!!"

Anyways. Oh yes. Good memories. Also, explains a lot about the gin.

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catgirl

Veteran

Okay, so maybe I'm just having a grouchy moment or don't know enough about Tim. You all are right that he did say he normally focuses on the positive. I could not bear WNTW the one time I watched it. Just seemed mean and narrow minded.

Is it possible that I'm out of touch with reality and that most women do want to look leaner and taller as their main priority? I feel like perhaps my fashion loving side is in conflict with my feminist sensibilities somehow. Will have to think about why this touched a nerve with me.

catgirl

Veteran

Rachylou, you need your own blog! You made me laugh so hard, and also realize that maybe part of what I am reacting to is my own sense of never looking like the majority culture around me. Never felt pretty, always too short and dark and not skinny enough. Took forever to get to a point of self-acceptance. And then to still get the "you can't be tall or thin enough" message from fashion advisors is irksome. Though I realize I'm reading a lot into it and that these messages come from everywhere...

Beth Ann

Veteran

I don't think you're being grouchy, Una. I feel kind of patronized with this kind of advice, as if someone were patting my little fleshy hands saying, "There, there, we'll fix you." I suspect it's all well meaning, and that many women feel relieved and willing to follow someone else's "rules." I much prefer Angie's "equipping" approach --- giving us expert information and working with her clients, instead of on them. I want to partner with my experts, whether they're pastors (well, that's easy, I sleep with mine --- tee hee), voice coaches, doctors, mechanics or ---- style experts.

Anonymous

Alaskagirl, I understand where you're coming from. If I didn't love Tim Gunn so much, I might've been more offended, too. For a true fashion lover, strict rules would be stifling. I think we have to take advice like this with a huge grain of salt and remember that most people want a simple approach and don't necessarily want to deconstruct why something works (or doesn't).

cciele

Veteran

Hm, I'm confused. How does that differ from advice here on PPL, to make sure your legs don't look short? I know I don't want to look "taller," per se, but I don't want to look stumpy ("shorter") either... Is it in the semantics?

RoseandJoan

Veteran

This is like going to the pool and seeing the sign, no petting, no bombing, no diving, huh, where's the fun?

I don't really have an issue with the segment but I would prefer if it were twice as long and was accompanied by a how to part? Don't wear wide leg capris which end at the widest part of the calf, do buy capris which are slim and very tapered or end above the calf muscle.

rachylou

Veteran

You know, Una, joking aside, that nitpicking can be very hard to take. It might be easier if you are totally immersed in the culture and all the mothers act the same way, so you and all your friends brush it off as "that's how mother's are." But it might not be. Children do get broken by the harshness of it. When I became diabetic, was dying of starvation, I'll never forget my WASPy banker boss telling me to EAT LETTUCE! I mean he hired me and I went to work for him in no small part because of the heavy dose of sloaney-ness that we'd both been infused with. It smoothed the way in many respects, but you know, it was also like the man was trying to kill me! Sometimes you come out fighting...

Isabel

Veteran

Rachy, you cracked me up. Your post reminded me of a cook book I bought once, " A man, a beer, and a microwave." I thought, "what a great country!"
hahaaaa. Everything we cooked in our Portuguese home was sooooo complicated and involved a stove. Hahaa.

But I think that you hit a nerve with your last post : when is it nitpicking and when is it paying attention to detail ? I think that Tim was trying to pay attention to detail.

JuneBug

Veteran

Una, I don't hate Tim Gunn because sometimes what he says makes sense, but in general he speaks from an era where fashion and style had rules that women had to comply with verbatim. These days women know their shape and work with that. Each of these 'faux pas' in the video work very well on some women and don't look as flattering on other shapes. So I'd take him with a pinch of salt for not emphasising that women should be dressing to suit their bodies, rather than generalizing that all of his is rubbish and nobody should be seen in it!

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Rachylou, you are beyond compare. So, so funny!!! (And by the way, I'm glad you didn't die of lettuce exposure.)

I've never seen Tim Gunn before. (I've heard of him but never seen him). My thoughts, FWIW -- he seemed okay. I didn't like the set up, and didn't much like the woman interviewing him. But what was he supposed to do?

As others have said, the advice itself was hardly novel, and Angie would agree about the capris. But of course, as Gaylene remarks, she'd be able to expand and show why and how to improve. And she wouldn't be so all-fired categorical about it.

I do hear you about a man telling a woman WNTW. Something in me is tempted to say, where do you get off? But mainly it was because of what Beth Ann says -- the patronizing tone. I don't think that was Tim as much as the interviewer.

cciele

Veteran

I dunno, I know a lot of women telling men what not to wear....

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