OT - MOTG & Guilt - YouLookFab Forum

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OT - MOTG & Guilt

RoseandJoan

Veteran

It has really struck me reading the forum lately the unrealistic expectations we place on ourselves as MOTG's. Anne feeling guilty about housework and AJ feeling guilty about time on the computer are just two examples. Why do we feel we have to behave in a particular way? Where do these expectation come from? We are no longer in the 1950's so why do we feel inadequate if the house is not spotless or we choose to please ourselves once very blue moon?

This is not a feminist rant but rather a request for you to take five minutes to give yourself a pat on the back for all of the things you DID achieve today!

General

39 replies

Latest reply was from Kristine

Vani

Veteran

Oh Julie, you are such a dear to post this! I'm not a MOTG but am one of those people who feel like I need to make every minute productive. It is only after I met DH that I have learnt to sometimes just take a break and relax. The dishes will get done, so will the laundry, and the refrigerator will get cleaned, the dog's nails will get clipped and the patio screen door will be fixed...just not now..LOL

rute

Veteran

I think that's because we are perfectionists. We want do do all and everything perfect, perfect on the work, perfect mothers, perfect wifes, we are too hard on ourselves and demand too much.

Don't know why.. maybe it's some feminine feature.. we are always trying to prove someting..

Queen Mum

Veteran

I tell people "don't should on yourself" or on me for that matter

While we as moms do have alot of responsibilities and we need to be mindful about fulfilling them, we also don't need to live in guilt and shame that we don't have it as together as the gal next door. The gal next door doesn't have it as together as she might appear either. I happened to do a talk at our churches MOPS group (mothers of preschoolers) about this very thing last week... it was called "The Picture Perfect Family" It was all about the image we try to portray to others and how we need to be free to just be ourselves, and let our family be it's imperfect self and not be burdened with all these expectations we put on ourselves.

Now, I really must get off of here and go clean my kitchen hehe

AJ

Veteran

Well I understand what you are saying and I'm all for scheduling in some fun time each day. I was too ashamed to admit in my other post that 3 or 4 HOURS would go buy before I would get off the computer. So you can see why I would feel guilty about that. I just need to not read EVERY blog and EVERY forum post each day.

Debbie

Veteran

Oh Julie you could not have posted this at a better time for me! Thank you! My youngest is in college but my grandson lives with me and today I did not feel like I had it together at all as MOTG.
Thank you!

cciele

Veteran

I think part of the guilt is from being a woman. I rarely see men feel guilty for taking time out for themselves. Perhaps it is because women are innately nurturing and giving, that they feel guilty taking or receiving.

taylor

Veteran

cecile is quite right,
As women we are nurturers and do for others rather than ourselves. Be it our children, our spouse, our parents or animals we seem to *care for others* leaving little time for ourselves.

I used to feel guilty, not when I did something for me but rather because I didn't spend every free moment I could with my children...I was cured when I realized a refreshed mommy was a better happier mommy:)

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

I guess I'm not really female then (...now where did I put those ovaries?)
I *should* feel guilty about a lot of things, but I really don't- and never ever when I do something for myself.

Theresa

(website)

Veteran

Interestingly for me, once I became a single mum, the guilt disappeared (I still would like things to have been done, but I know that there is only one of me and it will eventually get done) - prior to that though, I was guilty about every single thing I did for myself... but lets not get started on when I was married LOL

I think making the decision to admit that our marriage wasn't the fairytale we wanted it to be and admitting we needed to end it, allowed me to be more accepting of "failure" and now I am almost at the stage of embracing it. Accepting that not being together is the best thing for us almost "proved" that things I perceived as a failure weren't necessarily so IYKWIM.

One of my all time favourite quotes is this...

"Reality is a perfectionists nightmare" (I wish I knew where I read it so I could credit them...)

But I do have friends who are so hung up on needing to be (or at least appear) together at all costs and I wish they could go easier on themselves.

Kate

Veteran

I'm not a mom, but I am a sociology grad student, and in academia this nurturing phenomenon is well documented along with the guilt and feelings of inadequacy that have been brought up in this thread. In a traditional family setting, the man does the productive labor (aka makes the money) while the woman does the reproductive labor: the nurturing, cooking, cleaning, and all the daily tasks that keep the family going. As more women enter the workforce, they often end up doing productive labor AND most of the reproductive labor, which means they're working double time. Not to mention reproductive labor entails emotional labor, which is usually more draining than the typical productive job.

It's also really interesting to me how there's so much guilt for both working moms and stay at home moms, regardless of if their role is a choice or necessity. Working moms can feel inadequate for not spending as much time with their kids and families, and falling behind in their reproductive labor responsibilities. Stay at home moms can feel guilt for their lack of productive labor, and also feel particularly guilty if they neglect some of their reproductive labor tasks. It can become this awful catch 22 where women can't "win" at motherhood, and their is no easy answer. I would love to hear what any of you think about this sociological perspective!

My own mom quit her job after I was born and has devoted her life to raising her three kids. Now that my sister (the youngest) is a junior in high school, my mom is really struggling to figure out how to create a life around herself again after 23 years of building a life around her kids. I am SO thankful for all of the opportunities my mom gave us, but it's also painful for me to see how little of her life now is based on herself. Most of her community, close friends, activities, and interests are based around her children, and now that two of us are living across the country from her we've taken away a huge part of her life.

I realize this post sounds like a bit like a downer, but I truly mean for it to be somewhat inspirational. Feelings of guilt are a hard to escape for most moms, and being a part of YLF is a small step towards maintaining or creating a life that isn't just centered around children.

Michelle

(website)

Veteran

Jules, you rule. Full stop.
And these words are wise even for those of us without children... I know I sometimes expect myself to keep my apartment/prepare meals/organize my life with Martha Stewart-like zeal, but sometimes it just won't h appen. Thank you for reminding us that it's ok!

Lena

Nod, nod. Ladies, I agree.

RoseandJoan

Veteran

Wow, the responses to this thread have been so touching, Kate I really hope your Mum is able to rebuild a life around her wants. That's a great quote Theresa and very Truthful.

I guess the guilt does come hand in hand with ensuring we are productive but I have accepted that I do have more tasks than hours in the day. I have to prioritise, some tasks are non negotiable whereas others can wait. I'm trying to learn to leave guilt at the door.

Katiepea

(website)

Veteran

This is a really fascinating post. Kate's post rings so true to me and I can really appreciate her mum's position and sense of uncertainty. I also love Theresa's quote - so very true and so me.

Sometimes I have intense feelings of mother guilt and other times, like right now, I feel quite a strong sense of entitlement that I have as many rights as anybody else in this family to devote time and energy to myself and to leave the dirty dishes for my husband to do EVEN if I have been home all day (on here, surfing the net <giggle>).

Although I know I'm younger than your mum Kate, I am friends with quite a lot of older women (50's - 60's) and I have come to the conclusion that there is a huge proportion of women out there who are still all trying to work out "what we want to do when we grow up". I still haven't and I have finally come to the conclusion that that is absolutely fine!

In fact, having a slightly off-centre view of the world, I have decided to plan to work that side of my life out when I'm eighty. Until then, I'm just planning on having fun and trying many different things - maybe something will click, maybe not - but at least it is interesting!

Tansie

You've really hit a nerve here Julie!! I have a very traditional family set up - husband does the productive work and I do the reproductive work. (Thanks for the terminology Kate) This is for no particular reason except that it has worked out that way and it seems to work for us. Our kids are little, we have no family nearby, we move often and my husband works long hours and is regularly away. I give the stability to my childrens' world. But I feel so much guilt about not (currently) earning any money. One of the reasons I love YLF is because I experience fashion vicariously through you! I spend money on my kids, my husband, our flat with no problems whatsoever, but feel awful if I spend a few euros on a pair of red shoes (which I love by the way!!) for myself. This is completely self-generated - my husband has never questioned me about what I spend. So yes, it seems many women feel they ought to do everything. Chewyspaghetti, I honestly admire you!

Patience

Veteran

Julie, let's be best friends. I was just asking myself yesterday morning why I feel guilty so often these days when I'm not the kind of person who usually does (like Khris). I think it comes down to what we tell ourselves. I feel guilty because unconsciously or consciously I'm telling myself that I'm not doing the most for my children. I just try to remind myself that the truth is that I am an awesome mother. I think that it is just so deeply ingrained in our culture that things should look a certain way-- no matter what that way is-- that when they don't we tell ourselves the wrong things.

As for cleaning-- it actually doesn't bother me for other people that much. When things are a mess, it bothers *me*. I've realized that the danger is when we are able to score a home run with cleaning or mothering or "getting it all done." The satisfaction and thrill (yes you know it's a thrill) of doing it all makes it that much more rough when we can't get it all done. Of course, this is not going to make me stop shooting for the stars so to speak. For me the key is to keep the self talk positive and remember that it's okay when everything crashes and burns.

I've used all my computer time today on this post. hee hee. But I couldn't stay away.

Louise

Veteran

Remember girls your house being too clean can be bad for your kids health too x

marianne

Thanks for starting this thread, Julie. I constantly feel guilty for not doing more - spending more time with kids, doing more housework, doing more at my job. It's a huge source of stress for me. It's very hard for me to give myself credit for doing things, so thanks for reminding me about that.
Overall I agree with Rute. I don't think it's the old-fashioned mindset. For example, my husband does a lot of housework, but I always feel like I have to do more of my share.

Maya

Veteran

I'll preface this by saying I currently do not, never did have, and never will have any maternal instinct whatsoever. Nada. The thought of ever even giving birth let alone raising kids is, frankly, one of my worst nightmares. The only time I become a mother is around my sweet kitty cat. I'm stating this on no uncertain terms up front so there is some background information here.

I have to disagree as well that this is all nature rather than nurture. Our society and culture is structured in a way that puts enormous pressure on women and mothers in general. Men have pressure too, though it is of a different kind and perhaps less so. Women get chastised for working, for staying home, for having kids, for not having kids, for taking time off of work, for not taking time off of work. They get crucified for using formula over breastmilk. They get judged when they are sexually repressed, and judged when they are sexually promiscuous.

Many women probably wouldn't feel so guilty if we didn't have all those losers and pundits on television telling them precisely why and how they are all failures. Do you see this happening with men? Not really. That is the reason they don't have the same complex that women do. Men and women simply do not have the same kind of history regarding work/life balance.

This is a losing battle because there IS no ideal situation. Just do what you can and enjoy your life.

agrace

Great thought provoking post. This is a good reminder. I could go on and on about this topic. I may be back later and do just that As usual, I'm enjoying reading all of your thoughts.

Kate

Veteran

Maya, I completely agree with you that most of this is a result of social constructs and not the way things "naturally" are. However I want to add that I think this social construct is slowly falling apart for some men as well. While women don't have an equal place in the workforce (our jobs are lower status, involve more emotionally draining work, and pay less), there are an increasing number of families where the wife makes more than the husband, and this can create problems for him (and the marriage). As women find that they can not only raise children but support themselves and their children at the same time, the father's place in the family structure can be challenged. Both the husband and wife may question what he's adding to the family, and if he's not pulling his weight in productive or reproductive labor this can create huge strains. While many couples survive this, it often involve rejecting social norms of a man's role and a woman's role in the house.

I completely agree that our society is set up in a way where women are criticized pretty much no matter what they do, and men generally come out on top. But with the financial crisis there are now more women employed than men, and this can create problems for husbands and fathers.

RoseandJoan

Veteran

I have to admit I find the term maternal somewhat limiting, I think we all have a nurturing insinct but may fulfill that instinct in many ways. Maya, you fulfil your need to nurture through looking after your darling kitty :0)

I am also very lucky, Ben does a great deal around the home, looks after the girls when his shifts allows, by definition he does both a share of the productive and reproductive chores. It works for us and I consider myself to be lucky. I guess we have to try and base all of our decisions on what is best for our families.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I have no wisdom to add, but I do want to say that Julie rocks so count me in as another who wants to be her good mate. Big hug!

Dawn

(website)

Maya just summarised my opinions on this issue. I think too many women (mums as well as every other woman) have way too much pressure to be perfect placed on them by themselves, other people and the media to be perfect all the time. Maya, you are eloquent and intelligent as always, and I would love to meet you sometime!

Alecia

Veteran

This is a timely post, Julie. Thank you!

I have been contemplating this quite a bit as we expect our first baby. And I think my hubby has, too. We are smack in the middle of the evolution of the social norms of women's/men's roles and it is a challenge for both of us at times. (I.e., I have the more stable job, he's going to be doing the bulk of the childcare, etc.) But your reminder is very well taken. I have gotten infinitely better at giving myself a break.

Maya

Veteran

Dawn, I haven't forgotten the plans for a worldwide YLF convention...:)

As a kid, I had a very typical "ideal" upbringing. My mom stayed home with me until I was 13, and my dad was at work every day until 6. The result of this is that my mom's career was stifled. It makes me sad to see her at this age, struggling to make ends meet, bored with her job, and frustrated at her inability to realize her dreams. It makes me feel guilty. I know it shouldn't. I know it was her choice and she doesn't regret it...but at the same time, after years of her life revolving around us, she has no idea what to do with herself, much like Kate's situation.

OTOH, I wish I had more time with my dad as a kid. We used to fight a lot when I was a teen because I often felt like he didn't care or was too preoccupied with other things to spare any time for me. He was frequently on business trips and therefore there would be large spans of time when he wasn't home at all or was too jetlagged/tired to be bothered with me.

All in all, based on my experience, I think theses shifting dynamics are for the better. In an ideal world, it wouldn't happen as a result of a recession, but there has to be SOME upside to this right?

Men and women are more alike than different, and seem to crave the same things in life. The closer we come to achieving a balance, the happier I think we will all be.

RoseandJoan

Veteran

Maya, my Dad's main regret was the hours overtime he had to work to support the family at the expense of time with the kids. I imagine your Dad would probably say the same.

Katiepea

(website)

Veteran

I think that I can say with confidence that as a young girl in the 70's, I really was in the first generation of being a "child with a (full-time) working mother" who was striving to break through the professional glass ceiling.

Yes, my mum was the first generation of women to try to "have it all" - a professional career (fulltime), a husband and three kids.

Mum was a very career driven woman and worked throughout my entire childhood. She was always driven to achieve, achieve, achieve and "beat" the men at their own game. She was smart, sassy and very driven. I was very proud of how beautiful and charismatic she was - how she was not afraid to go into territory that was at the time, quite foreign for women, let alone being a mother of three!

This sounds great doesn't it?! She had it all, didn't she - children, a husband AND recognition in a "professional field".

I guess I always grew up thinking and she always assumed that "there would be time" when I was older to develop and enjoy the mother/daughter relationship. I grew up, gained my own qualifications, married and embarked upon my own career.

Mum was diagnosed with stage III cancer two weeks before I discovered I was pregnant with my first child. She had just turned 53. She died when my youngest was five weeks old. She didn't live to see 60. Being driven, she fought and she fought to see her grand babies born, but sometimes life just isn't fair.

You may wonder why am I telling the world essentially some very personal information?

It is because I have learnt the very, very hard way from first hand experience as a little child of a career driven mother that yes, career success is all very well and good. I absolutely agree that achieving career goals is a wonderful achievement! Indeed, I am very proud of all that my mum achieved with her career goals in a predominantly male dominated field.

However, this experience taught me, very cruelly, that if you decide to have children, you can't go banking on the fact that they (or YOU!) will be there later, when you are older and "ready to retire" to have the lovely, nurturing relationship where you have "time" to spend together.

As mum learnt the hard way, and unfortunately I have experienced first hand as the daughter of a mother who "broke the glass ceiling", sometimes career success can come at a price. She felt great guilt and she regretted many of the decisions she made to put career over family. She realised that she had missed out on a whole range of precious "mum/daughter experiences" for the sake of impressing "someone important" or getting the next promotion, award or pay-rise.

It wasn't worth it when it came down to it. Sad, huh?

Understandably, this experience changed me and my perspective of motherhood vs career.

Yes, I'd really like to achieve goals career wise and make an impact on the world for that matter. However, when I am on my death bed I can tell you that I sure as hell will not care whether I impressed a prime-minister or an influential reporter or anyone in power with my "brains or achievements" as much as I will care whether my family - my children and my husband loved me and know that I really adored them as their caring mother and wife.

Louise

Veteran

Aw katipea what a heart wrenching story i'm filling up reading it, and definately one to make us realsie the important things in life x

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