OT: judging others based on their appearance - YouLookFab Forum

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OT: judging others based on their appearance

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

I just read an article in the newest issue of Glamour that talks about how people judge each other based on their weight and appearance, with women being the worst offenders. The article gives examples of real people-for example several women who were overweight were routinely judged as lazy and sloppy, but thin women were also judged as stuck up, bitchy and self absorbed, all that without any of them even opening their mouth, all that judging based sorely on someone's appearance. This strikes a chord for me because I know I have been judged by other women based on how I look. I have received snide comments from women coworkers about my weight "oh, you must never eat anything that's why you are so thin", them telling me I need to eat some real food to someone acting telling me that I must be anorexic. I have had women be openly cold and hostile before I even opened my mouth and said anything(I had a coworker who acted this way towards me for all the 6 months we worked in the same company, she left after). Not to mention that any time i had a job interview with a woman, I never heard from them again. And any time I interviewed with a man, the results were more positive. ITs too much of a coincidence
I was bullied in school when I was young precisely because of my small size so I would NEVER judge anyone based on their appearance alone so this makes me really upset.
ITs human nature to look at the person and assume certain things about them but I would never look at a women and because she is thin, authomatically think "she is a stuck up, anorexic and thinks she is better than anyone else". Or look at someone who is overwight and assume that they are lazy slobs. You just can't win...

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50 replies

Latest reply was from Sona

ManidipaM

Veteran

agree... even though my childhood experiences with bullying were for the opposite reason (tall and big) at first. It's strange how this still needs explaining: you cannot know a person without actually *knowing* them; appearances are *deceptive* to the point where they tell you very little about what's inside and what's history.

RoseandJoan

Veteran

It is unfortunate but it is also the way we are wired. It is something I try to work on and it is especially important to not judge by appearance alone in my line of work.

I always remember a section of a textbook from a psychology class which explained that if you took the time to analyse every detail in your surroundings it would take approximately three days to cross the road!

ironkurtin

Veteran

I have a very beautiful friend whose pet peeve is always being prejudged (especially by other women, some of whom hate her on principle). This has never been my problem, so I was intrigued at how much it bothered her. It's sortof the inverse of how pissed off I get by men ignoring me to stare at some hotsytot walking past.

I think the unfortunate fact is that many people are stupid and insecure. They like to make assumptions because it makes them feel smart and better about themselves.

Poor stupid judgey people. They're missing out!

rae

(website)

Veteran

I can do nothing but agree. And there is a difference between evaluating someone based on appearance (inferrning status, whether or not they are outgoing, etc.) with making judgy judgy judgements.

I always had rumors spread about me - that I was promiscuous, pregnant, you name it. I didn't even have a boyfriend until senior year. Every time I met a new female in high school, they'd say, "Oh, wow, I'd always thought you would be really stuck up, but you're not!" Um... ok? They'd never once spoken to me before! I was a huge nerd in high school! Makeup-less, with pock marks! And also clueless, apparently.

My good friend also gets treated very poorly by other women once they learn her age -- She looks at least 10 years younger, and women seem to really resent her for it.

This is why I love YLF, though. We interact with one another dealing heavily with our appearances, yet everything is still rooted in positivity. Today, it is the exception, but I would hope it could someday be the rule. I wonder if part of this is because YLF gives us the tools to improve self-esteem? It would make sense that secure, happy people would not need to be catty.

Anonymous

I have a female coworker who has been rude and obnoxious to me (always behind my supervisor's back) ever since the very first day I started working here. It bothered me at first, until I heard her treat another supervisor with the same level of rudeness. I finally figured she's not worth worrying about, that she has some sort of problem that has nothing to do with me, and that it's better for me to stay calm and let HER be the one who dies from a heart attack. Now whenever she gets snippy, I just smile and go about my business.

As for judging, it's funny how that works. When I was 18, there were a few people who thought I was from a rich family. They based this on how I dressed, even though my mother sewed all of my clothes and paid well below retail cost to make them... and on the fact that I drove a brand new car, even though I had a full-time job and the car stayed in my father's name until I paid him back every cent. Only then did the title get transferred to my name. Anyhoo, people made assumptions that were incorrect, mainly because they didn't know us and didn't know anything about my background or upbringing. So what do you do about people like that? You ignore them. They're what I like to call "energy drains." If you let them, they will drain the energy right out of you. Don't let them do that! Be yourself and smile.

christieanne

Veteran

This pre-judging tendency limits us in so many ways.

I had a horrible experience in the workplace once where a VP who was known to try to get under people's skin to make them squirm (apparently known by everybody but me - my boss was so negligent for not warning me) called me an Ice Princess - in the beginning of an interview. I was so upset and thrown off. Unfortunate that he realized right away what would make me uncomfortable - I tend to be quiet and have been called icey or cold before until people start to get to know me - I have worked hard on changing that perception (I hope!).

In any case, I totally agree with you Victoria and wish this judging thing would stop. It is so wrong to dismiss someone based on physical characteristics of ANY kind.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Victoria, this is unfortunate, and preconceived negative judgements by others can be so hurtful. We have ALL fallen victim to an inaccurate negative judgement.

I can also play devils advocate here, though. People don't mind being judged if the judgements are positive - albeit inaccurate. In other words, if the judgement boosts the ego - no one minds being judged!

Rae, I believe that's true: Secure and happy people have no need to be catty.

rae

(website)

Veteran

Angie, your comment made me pause - I really can't think of a time when someone has *voiced* a positive assumption about me. Maybe if people were as free-sharing of these assumptions, the negative ones would not sting as badly!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

True, Rae. I bet people have thought positive things about you all your life - it's just too bad that they were not voiced along with the negative judgements.

I've made positive, yet inaccurate judgements about people and voiced them. I think we have probably all done this at some point

Anonymous

I think ironkurtin is right. Some people are just plain stupid and insecure. A secure person would not make such hateful/hurtful remarks, even if they were true, because a secure person would not feel the need to do so. What purpose would it serve? Whenever you put others down in such a way, all you do is make yourself look bad.

Anonymous

OMG yes. I so much agree. I have so many examples of how, over the years, I have been misjudged by the way I look. Since I'm voluptuous, I have to be so careful with the sexiness level , especially at work, because I can look "easy".I even make a point of buying things that don't look overly expensive or designerish because that feeds of to my work reputation of being high maintenance and spendy. In reality, those perceptions can affect your career, even hamper your advancement.

I see this in my personal life too. For instance, I can not, for the life of me, understand why 2 of my fiancee's female friends make a point of excluding me from everything and they don't even know me. It is all based on my appearance - I know. I seem to be so stuck up but I'm not. Plus they come from very traditional backgrounds, and let's face it, I'm the single mom... so sad:(

cheryle (Dianthus)

(website)

Veteran

I find this very interesting. I have had it both ways. Pre-judged based on looks and attitude. I can recall someone saying they were surprised that I am not comfortable in large groups because I seem so confident. I've also experienced the negative side of it.

I had a discussion with a co-worker yesterday. She is a very spiritual person and lives her life in a way that is consistent with her beliefs. She told me that if someone says something negative to her or about her, it doesn't bother her in the least because it isn't truly about her but about them. I am continually impressed by her attitude and the way she interacts with people.

Fruitful

Veteran

Agree with IK: people iz dumb.

How many times has someone worried over my health/iron levels/mental state, or even served me poorly, when I had no makeup on, and treated me well/commented on how rested and nourished I look/how well my life seems to be going, when I wore makeup. Some of this came from health professionals! Hello, do you not comprehend the mechanics of foundation, blush and lip gloss? Truly, I have a small misanthropic side, but this failure to apply basic perceptual skills really brings it out. (It also sorts the wheat from the chaff in terms of deciding who is really switched on - so I guess I am judging people on their astuteness, if not their appearance!)

rute

Veteran

we cannot avoid that! People judge others. It's a part of human's nature! We are judged at work, when we go to a job interview, the best we can do is take care of ourselves knowing that we will be always evaluated by a first impression!
As to the comments, you must be anorectic.. that's envy. When we dress well and feel good in our skin, people have envy, they like to see others down!
Other women where I work gave comments like " you are always so polished, you must think this is a model runaway and not an office" .. I just don't care!

rachylou

Veteran

People are "sight animals", like sight hounds. We really rely on our eyes, certainly not our sense of smell. I remember reading something about linguistics and all the phrases (at least in English) that harken to the visual. I've also read the human brain is really occupied with social calculus. When you're doing nothing, like vegging in front of the telly, the brain is off-line running through the social maths.

Anyways, I am not a pure-style person by a long shot. I think a lot about "truth in advertising" because my pure-me-style choices mislead people and that is awkward and uncomfortable. And not particularly fair to them.

Honestly, folks, I will kick your you-know-what-out if you try to light up a joint in my house. No matter how arty and laid back I appear.

HelenInCanada

Veteran

Interesting thoughts and experiences here. I LOVE topics like this.

Hmmm...I hate to play Devil's Advocate, but there's something to be said about projecting. Not to get too psych-babbly on anyone, but one's own tendencies and inclinations often - though not always - subconsciously form their impressions of others. So, just for argument's sake...if you yourself judge others harshly on their appearance (be it they're not elegant, stylish, cool, trim, etc.), you will feel others' silent or not-so-silent negativity toward you more greatly.

I wish I could be more rah-rah, you-go-girls here, but I have to say I've noticed there have been judgements about others' appearances from a few posters here in your own areas quite frequently - whether it's about someone's supposed tacky or overly sexy style at work, or on the street, or that they're not hip, or what have you. Could it be the co-workers/people in your sphere are picking up on your own condescension? Just a thought. For the record, I see many well-dressed, gorgeous women who are fine socially.

Anonymous

Helen: In reference to your last paragraph and acknowledging that I'm putting you on the "proverbial spot, can you please provide some examples of what you are referring to? Please feel free to use me for for this purpose. I have very thick skin, no worries.

I ask because, if you allow me to be blunt for a second here, often times you present an opinion that is vague and I understand that, since you don't want to single anyone out. However, the tone comes across as if you are "calling the bluff" let alone soapboxy to me. Perhaps if you provide an example, I can see where you are coming from.

I hope I'm not projecting:)

Anonymous

To a certain extent, we all tend to judge people by first impressions and by outward appearance. It's hard not to! The difference, I think, is whether or not we then turn around and outwardly shun someone or make that person feel inferior based solely on our perceptions and not on actual reality (as in getting to know that person and what s/he is really like).

There have been times in my life when, as I stated in an early post in this thread, I have been perceived to be rich when in reality I was not. I just came from a hard-working, resourceful family and had a mom who could sew for me. I also saved up the money for my first car. My parents didn't give it to me. There have also been times when people thought I was a college student, when in actuality I was a college professor's wife. The amusing part about that was that the women who thought I was a student treated me totally differently when they found out who I was married to, as if that suddenly turned me into someone they wanted to get to know.

I'm sure these things happen to everybody. I think the important thing is how we react to such people, and what we do to avoid being like them. We should be careful not to form opinions about other people that are not based on fact. We don't know, for example, if a person is overweight because of being lazy or if that person is overweight because of a medical condition that is beyond his/her control. We don't know the economic circumstances that would prevent a person from dressing as nicely as we think he/she should dress. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point. We don't know the whole story, so we should not judge so harshly.

I hope I don't come across online as an uncaring individual who looks down on the way others dress. That's not me at all. Yes, I have my opinions about style, as we all do. But I respect others' rights to differ and to have their own opinions. In the end, it all comes down to tolerance.

I haven't been a member of this forum for long, but I have yet to meet an unkind soul. The women here at YLF seem like caring, loving people who have nothing but good intentions and want to help others. I have not read any nasty, condescending posts.

HelenInCanada

Veteran

You're sharp, Zapotee - I was intentionally being vague because yes, I don't want to single anyone out! My observations are based on a couple of instances here on YLF and I really don't want to name names. I can be specific about a circumstance. Someone complained that other women in her area dress "too sexy" (and from the tone, I took it to be a negative disdainful comment about the women...low-cut tops, microminis, etc.) - no matter what their size - at 'inappropriate' places, such as the bank, or the office, and wondered if it was just the casual warm environment that was encouraging it. Isn't that a judgement? I agree that it's human nature to judge, but I would think after you come to know someone personally - and based on their attitude and behaviour toward you, that the judgement would change (unless a sociopath is involved, in which case, yes - ignore or even report if there's harassment!) Vague and soapboxy = that's me at times!

MsMary

Veteran

*searches*

*giggles*

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

Helen: I think it was me who said that women dress very scantily around here even in the workplace. By that I certainly didn't mean to sound as if they are terrible people that they do that or think other negative things about them-if someone wears short shorts or whatever when they are at tthe beach or even out shopping,that is one thing but when someone is wearing 5 inch plastic spike heels and a bandage skirt, with a slit up your butt that will expose her underwear if she heaven forbid bends over(and she is a supervisor at the bank)I would consider that highly unappropriate. I don't consider this a judgement because I don't think that she is a "trampy" or "bitchy" or any other things because I do not do that, just that she doesn't realize what is or isn't appropriate for work. I think at the time of this discussion the topic was how women dress in your given area and I brought this up because I dress very preppy and conservative which is the complete opposite of the local style. I am sorry if that sounded distainful, that was not my intent

jayne

Veteran

I disagree with Helen. This is a fashion forum and if the comment was about the clothes on someones back being inappropriate to office, then I think that is vastly different from judging a person based on physical size, weight, coloring, chest, etc. The thread started on the person being judged , not their clothes.

Alot of topics in this forum about 'what is appropriate' in this or this situation so we are deliberating trying to find the line between appropriate and too sexy. So if someone has brought an example to this forum about that, then it is probably because of the judgements/guidelines we have made here together that skirts not reaching fingertips is too sexy for the office. And then it is clothes we are discussing, not the person herself being too sexy.

HelenInCanada

Veteran

No apologies, Victoria - in fact, I agree with you! It's hard not to notice something so extreme, and I think it's easy to associate someone's personality with the way they dress, regardless of having even met them or not. I think my point was just that whether we mean to or not, we make assumptions based on appearances initially, and it goes both ways. However, if someone is still viewing you negatively after you've not done anything to harm or upset them (experiences at work or in social situations, for example), then they definitely have a problem, not you!

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

Helen: I agree with you that most of us make judgements about someone based on how they are dressed but as you said, its different from someone being rude to you without any reason because of your weight, race, etc.

krishnidoux

Veteran

This is interesting. I see that your experience is shared by more than one. I too have felt exactly like you in my life, only to realize 1) we are animals 2) we are completely governed by our subconscious. I totally agree with Dianthus's co-worker who says it's more about the commenter than anything else. The person making the remark is really speaking about themselves but it won't help much to know this when you are subjected to unfair treatment due to someone else's insecurities.

This reminded me of this British journalist who was recently blasted for publicly declaring that the fact she was beautiful had had a negative impact on her relationship with women.

http://thelook.today.msnbc.msn.....ident?lite

She was literally mocked and constantly challenged, even accused of being narcissistic.
Yet there is a grain of truth to what she says.

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

^I remember reading that article and while at first, I was thinking "oh common..", the more I thought about it, I realized that I had some simular experiences

KikiG

Veteran

Yes. People judge, and often they judge wrongly. But, probably more often, the message that is being received is the message being sent, and we all have a wonderful opportunity in how we choose to present ourselves in shaping that message. There are fashion choices that, in the workplace, do not support being valued for your professional contribution and sending the mind to speculate about after-hours celebrations, just as there are fashion choices that do not support being seen as having high self worth (thinking in particular of one co-worker whose choices suggest depression).

A recurrent theme, here, is when people get fashion right--when they are able to make choices to project an accurate and chosen personal image. This is so satisfying to watch! I have been the most frustrated with my own appearance when there was a disconnect between my authentic self, and my appearance. I look back at what I wore in my early 40s. I know now what a low point that was in my life, and yes, the clothing I wore was an indicator of how far down I was on my own priority list, and how worn down I was by troubles in my marriage. Happily, in every way, I am in a different place. Today's happy new pink shoes show that very clearly!

TotheMoonAlice

Member

In the realm of social psychology, people must make quick assessments at first, positive or negative. It's how the mind captures information, in "iconic" forms, then with further interaction we modify these quick profiles, flesh them out, until they bear no resemblance to the original. A thing about human interaction is even the most haughty person experiences being overcome by beauty of a person's inner character.

I find people who are uncomfortable with theirself cling more tightly to first impressions to guard themselves against potential social pain. In that light, it's easy to feel sympathy for people who are more judgmental than others--you really don't want to be them.

Despite their wall of judgement, they will necessarily adapt their impression over time. It's lovely that personal beauty conquers in that way.

ironkurtin

Veteran

True story.

I recently worked at a place where one coworker's wife routinely showed up dressed like a call girl. Giant stripper heels with platforms, tight short skirts or tiny shorts, teeny tops with bosoms bazonging. I could always tell when she was in the office because I would suddenly get a stream - bing bing bing - of ims from the few other women in the office as she walked past, all of them along the lines of, OMG WTF is she wearing?!

This lady was nice, sweet, good-looking, not stupid - she was a schoolteacher (!!!) - and she seemed to think these outfits were A-OK, because she'd wear them even when she brought her daughter in to see Dad. But come on, she was utterly and inappropriately dressed to visit her husband in his office. And yes, she was judged for it. All of the women in the office just could not respect her.

Was that fair? I don't know. The game industry is full of unevolved men, and all of the women I've worked with have fought long and hard for our entry into this boy's club. This overtly sexy lady was our worst nightmare, dressing and acting like many men thought *we* should be and act - and, lemme tell you, over our dead bodies!

Also, just looking at those shoes made my knees hurt.

Here's the kicker. After this guy left, he and his wife were revealed to have an open marriage and routinely scouted other couples in the office. So she was sortof, well, bait.

You cannot make this stuff up.

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