Need to gripe about sizing... - YouLookFab Forum

Category

Body Type

Welcome! Read about what to wear and how to wear it on the YLF Blog. Join the YLF Forum to ask specific questions or just chat about fashion and personal style. Or check out the curated list of things we love in YLF Finds.

Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

Need to gripe about sizing...

catgirl

Veteran

So I went to the maill post office to mail yet another return, and was tempted into Banana Republic by a salesperson handing out surprise coupons. I tried on a dress that I ended up ordering with 30% off because I needed a petite.

Here's my gripe: why am I a size 8P in a BR dress? And also generally an 8P in j. crew jackets? Yet a 2 on the bottom in Gap and an XS in tops at Old Navy, and anywhere from a 26 - 28 in premium denim? I mean, I am 5'1" and 115 pounds (I know weight is not the issue, but it's part of what's playing into this), and yet I can't get a size 6 dress to zip up the back?

I don't really care about the numbers, but it is kind of freaking me out to think that maybe I have serious body dysmorphia and am actually seeing myself differently than I really look. I mean, I'm not the stereotypically tiny Asian chick, but honestly I don't see how I could be much smaller, yet here I am in the upper range of sizes at j. crew.

This post is ABSOLUTELY not intended to make ANYONE feel bad about size or numbers. It's more about my own self-perception and body type and general sense of complete size confusion at the moment. GAH!

Body Type

39 replies

Latest reply was from

KathyL

Veteran

Totally agree about crazy sizing in women's clothes. It's part of the reason I have so many returns. If I really want something, l will order in 2 sizes and, if available, in petite and regular. At Gap, I got a blazer in size 2 and a similar one in a different color was too tight in a 2 so had to get a 4. So sizing is inconsistent between stores AND in the same store. So frustrating and confusing!

Caro in Oz

Veteran

We have the same problem in Australia. I have clothes over a range of FOUR sizes. This is before I try to buy from overseas. Shoes used to be fairly simple for me but now I have various size shoes too. I'm about to become a bag-lady.

Echo

Veteran

Petite sizes commonly run smaller than regular sizes. I know, I know, the "petite" specification is supposed to mean height, but it very often means the entire garment is proportioned differently (of course) and SIZED differently.

And the difference from one store to the next is just jaw-dropping sometimes. A few years ago I gave up in a store when I was trying on a pair of 00 shorts. Never in my life have I ever been that small - not even in sizes 20 years ago! Vanity sizing, anyone?

Aziraphale

Veteran

There is NOTHING WRONG with your figure. Sizes are a funny thing. First of all, each store is appealing to a different market. For example, take Old Navy. The wealthier people are (in America), the thinner they tend to be -- unfortunate but true -- which means people with less disposable income, who tend to shop at lower-end stores for young-ish folk like Old Navy, are likely to be heavier. I'm pretty sure they skew their sizes accordingly -- because Banana Republic, one of its sister companies, has totally different sizing. I'm the same size at Banana Republic as I am at J. Crew, which, judging by their prices, must appealing to a different market -- also young-ish, but more upwardly mobile types with more money. And their sizing is on the smaller side. That explains why you're an 8Petite at J. Crew and an XS at Old Navy. I don't have facts to back me up here, but that's my best guess.

As for why you're a bigger size for with jackets than for pants? You're an IT! You are in fact very tiny, but your body is shaped such that your bottom half is smaller. I'm the same. I'm often a smaller size in pants than in tops. Nothing weird about it -- just as pears are often a smaller size on top than on the bottom. Ain't diversity grand.

velvetychocolate

Veteran

I have the same issue - it confounds (confuses, irks,and irritates) me that I can be a size 6, 8, 10 or a 12. And, I think you're right that it actually contributes to a mild bit of body dysmorphia. Recently, I picked up a couple of skirts at Costco (can't try on in store) and held them up to my waist, picked the size I thought would fit, and I get home and they were way too big. It's like I can't see straight or something.

Same thing happened with a blouse from Nordstrom - I actually sized down from what I thought would fit me, and it was also too big. This has me thinking I'm not seeing myself properly - but the thing is - I'm pretty sure it's because of all the wonky sizing going on. I've also had the experience where I thought something would fit and it was way too small. Sooo confusing!

It's making me feel weird too Una. Thank you for posting this, because you're right - it's not the number or size, it's the confusion.

It almost feels like when I was a little kid, at the amusement park - in this "fun house" with all the weird/wonky mirrors.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

LOL, Caro! At least with bags, you can tell what size they are, right?

Una, I think this may be a question partly of sizing and partly of cut. The J. Crew clothes are designed with a slim rectangle in mind (so I have been told). I don't know whether that's also true of BR. Gap, as you know, is just all over the map anyway!

The reason you can't get a dress to zip up the back is that you have shoulders and a bust. It's the same reason that Pretty Pears have to size way up (from their waist size) to get pants to do up or to fit their thighs. I know, because I used to be a Pretty Pear, or at least more hour-glassy on the hip side. I used to think my hips were HUGE. In retrospect, I realize they could not have been. The bones are where they are. Sure, there was extra padding on there, and I don't have a flat butt....but truly, I cannot possibly have been as disproportionate as I often felt when trying on clothes -- especially pants. Pants were the bane of my life back then.

It can be upsetting...not so much because of the number but because one starts to wonder if one's body is weird or something. Does this stuff fit ANYone?

I wonder. I see an awful lot of people going around in ill-fitting clothing.

That's why it's so great when we find a maker who tends to cut for women shaped a bit like us...or a style that makes the cut less crucial -- in your case, your tunic type tops and slim bottoms. For a Pretty Pear, maybe an A line skirt or the right pencil skirt.

nicoleb

(website)

Veteran

I have no clue what size I am anymore.
I have dresses that are extra small and I have dresses that I needed a medium.
I have pants that are 28s and I have pants that are 26. They both fit perfectly
I have shirts in a size 2 and shirts in a size 8.

It's irritating.

Beth Ann

Veteran

I felt for a while that there was a lot of vanity sizing (which worked for size 12/14, fairly tall me), but now I just find it highly unpredictable, even within brands.

goldenpig

(website)

Veteran

I so totally agree! I have clothes that range from 2 in Gap jeans, to size 10 at H&M, and from XS to L! I don't care what size I am, I just wish it was consistent so it would be easier to shop (since I always have to order multiple sizes and return). I wish sizes would be based on actual measurements. Even jeans sizing mystifies me. I'm usually a size 28 but nowhere on my body do I actually measure as small as 28 inches.

shiny

Veteran

I'm one inch shorter and 4 lbs lighter. Normally I find Gap, BR, and ON fairly consistent in their sizing across the board -- I am either a 2p or a 4p. EXCEPT for dresses at BR! I need to size up, especially if the dress has structure (defined waist) and is not made out of any sort stretchy material. If it's a knit dress with cotton/spandex blend and offered in XS/S/M/L, I take the S. But if it's a dress with lining and a non-stretchy fabric and especially if it has a waistband, forget it, I have to size up to a 6p or even an 8p, but if I get to the 8p size, the fit is way too off in the vertical proportions.

My conclusion? BR's fit model is not 47 years old, with broader shoulders, thicker waist, and a C cup chest. Hee hee. It really is that simple!

Jcrew is even worse. First, their clothing is cut for a rectangle type, which I'm not. But also I do not find any consistency in their sizing, and no rhyme or reason for the difference between their petites and their regulars. In other words, if a garment in regular seems promising I can't be sure it'll be scaled down proportionately just so for a petite. That said, because of the unreliability and high shipping costs, I rarely, if ever, risk ordering petites from Jcrew. The last thing I ordered was my coat. I tried it on first in the store as a regular, then crossed my fingers the petite would work, and by sheer luck, it did. Otherwise, I will only buy regulars that I've tried on in the store, and fit... usually we're talking XS. And many of their XS tops are still way too large on me. I've also gone to the extent of asking for detailed measurements from customer service, only to be completely puzzled by what I'm told... the measurements just make no sense to me.

Long winded way to say.......... it's not you, it's the clothes.

Tip: try Ann Taylor. I have long been a BR loyalist, but lately BR has just not been doing it for me, while AT has been knocking it out of the park. I switch between those stores all the time, and at this moment, for about the past year, I have had far better luck at AT. It's not just fit: I am finding AT's colors and styles very refreshing compared to BR, which is looking stale to me lately. But I have faith BR will come around again; I think they are just having an off year.

shiny

Veteran

By the way.. you should try this dress!!
http://bananarepublic.gap.com/.....pid=917384

See my other post today; I have this in black (small petite) and it's awesome. I know you and I have similar builds. This is a very flattering dress.

Irene

Veteran

5.4", 114 pounds.

I'm angry at Spanish sizing because it's so much less forgiving than, say, UK sizing. Most mainstreet Spanish stores (think ZARA, MANGO, MASSIMO DUTTI, BLANCO) only have three sizes: S, M, L. You can get lucky and some items will be at XS and XL too, but not that many. For pants, you have from 32 (your size 0) up to 42 (your 10). BUT I'm a 38 (size 6) and some people would consider me slightly underweight, so you can imagine what our 32 looks like (extremely tiny, normally worn by very petite women or, well, women with eating disorders). That means that larger young women -but still not oveweight nor plus size- go to shop at other European and American stores: C&A, Primark, Forever21, Promod, H&M... it makes total sense, of course.

I can easily need a Large size in Spanish stores. I was trying on some denim jackets last week and I couldn't button up the Medium... and the Large was really tight on me. There was no ExtraLarge, they just don't make it. And all right, I do have a big bust, but I also have a small band-size, so it's shouldn't feel so tight across my back, and it did. I have the same issue with bottoms, and I'm not even that curvy around my hips since I'm an hourglass with IT tendencies.

What bugs me is the fact that larger women will not be able to get into those clothes if I need a Large size and there are no bigger sizes of that same item. I am a slim woman, even if I have curves, but not all women are made the same way -I was slighly overweight in the past, so I would know- and I understand that they have to put a line somewhere between 'average' and 'plus sized'... but do they have to put the line between 'slim' and 'normal weight'?

It's ridiculous.

So just be happy your country catters for you! My mom is normal-sized, just not very slim, and it's really hard for her to find nice clothes -she's an IT as well, Una- that fit her... oh, and don't get me talking about bras, Spanish stores don't even acknowledge that +C cups exist (and Cs only to be found in basic styles)

Anonymous

I'm with Nicole. I am not sure what size I am anymore. My old halogen pencil skirts are a 4 but I had to go up to an 8 on the new ones. I did not like them at all, so I returned them. My tops are ranging from S to L, and 4 to 8. For dresses and pants... I don't even know!!! I'm just eyeballing and ordering multiples these days. I never look at sizes, it's too frustrating.

Preppy Pear

Veteran

I think the only thing that really bugs me is when they plain just don't make an item I like in a size that will fit me. I'm currently about a size 10 (though we've established that sizing is stupid). But years ago I wore a size 18, and I'm tall, and I wear a size 11 shoe...I don't know, I spent so many years feeling so wrong because everything I liked didn't come in my size. I was convinced it was me, not the clothes.
Now I'm pretty average-sized, and talls and big shoes are more readily available online, so I can find most things I want, and I've really come to terms with how arbitrary sizing can be. But sometimes I still feel a little grotesque and freakish. Sizing is stupid not just because it's inconsistent, but because it makes a judgement on whose bodies are "okay."

cinnamon fern

Veteran

It is indeed annoying! I always wear a smaller size in dresses than anything else, which makes no sense - surely your dress size should be the same as either your pant size or your jacket size - but it is not.

AG - apologies if I am pointing out the obvious - but do you really need petites? I learned only recently that petites are smaller in the shoulder relative to everywhere else, ie if you have a 4 and a 6p that are the same size in the bust and waist, the 6p will be narrower in the shoulders and back. Maybe everybody but me already understood this.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

It's annoying - especially when you shop online.

I went shopping with a client last week who usually wears a size 8/10 - although she is petite, petites don't work on top. She bought sizes: XS, S, M, XL, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12 across two casual wear capsules. That's how varied the sizes were.

The whole size thing is even trickier at the moment because of the very on trend "opposing trends":

- Body con
- Volume

You often need to size up for body con, and size down in volume.

Gaylene

Veteran

I think we all know that sizing is all over the map, but, frustrating as that is, I actually feel that it's not always such a bad thing. Before I get all those shoes thrown at me, hear me out.

We all know that trying to compare bodies based on a few measurements--bust, waist, hip--doesn't begin to account for all of our variations. Even if we throw in a few more measurements like height and weight, how can those numbers possibly describe broad shoulders, narrow rib cages, a full bust, a high hip, short legs, a full booty? Our bodies are so unique that, even on the this forum, it's hard to find a body double. So whose body shape would we take as the standard? And some women like a very body conscious fit, while others like things a bit slouchier. And then there are the designers' visions--who do they see wearing their clothes and how do they envision the garment draping on the body.

I think all of us have been frustrated, amused, and aghast at sizing-- and it does causes so many headaches when ordering online. But Lemonade brings up a very good point. If clothing ever became totally standardized and was only available in a limited number of shapes and sizes, then many of us would really be in bad shape.

And, as you probably know, Una, if you travel to the UK, you'd probably be able to add a couple more sizes to your portfolio. Hmm, one woman who can range from a size 12UK to a size 0. Sounds rather magical to me... But, really, how can one do anything but laugh and then grab an armful of whatever looks like it is more or less the right size and start trying things on. And those online stores need to understand that, without free shipping, they are not going to stay in business very long.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Gaylene and Lemonade, inconsistent sizing can also be a blessing in disguise:

http://youlookfab.com/2009/03/.....-disguise/

sarah

Veteran

Una, I'm right there with you. Well, I'm 5'2" and 119 (I REALLY want to be 115, but I just can't seem to make that happen). I think shoulders and busts are a huge deal in how things fit. I have narrow shoulders but a sizable bust, and that gets me every time. And the fact that in some brands petites and regulars are different in more than just length, while in others, they aren't drives me batty. It's really an annoyance, esp with online shopping.

Anonymous

Oh, thank goodness, I thought it was just me. I have everything from XS to L and 0 to 10 in my closet and THEY ALL FIT. So when I go into a store and a SA asks what size I generally wear...well, how the heck should I know?I'm OK with size differences between brands but WITHIN a brand, well that is just unacceptable. I should be able to walk into a store and know how I fit in that particular store. I hate that I have to bring 3 different sizes of each item into the changing room.

catgirl

Veteran

Oh my gosh, thank you all so much for a) sympathizing and b) not scolding me too much for body issues, because I know YLF is a really body-positive forum. I promise it's not about the weight or the perceived need to be a certain size - I'm generally very accepting of my own bod, flaws and assets and all, and I truly find every body type lovely. It really was more about feeling like the fashion industry is constantly psyching me out with some kind of "think you're this size? Ha ha, think again!" form of torture.

You all are right about the mass market retail sizing for sure. I have friends who are totally sized out at places like F21, where I am a L and sometimes XL. And Zara has me all over the place, so I can't shop there online.

It makes me feel so much better that I'm not alone in my annoyance and confusion. Angie's and Gaylene's points are very well taken, and I will keep them in mind the next time I'm taping up yet another box.

LOVE YOU ALL!

K. Period.

Veteran

Yes! Yes! Yes, Angie! Thank you so much for the link back. I really appreciate the variety in different brands. I'm a rectangle and if my only choices in clothing were made for curvy girls, I'd be miserable. It does make shopping more challenging until you know the lines and stores that match your body style. However, having suffered through the 80s as a very thin girl with her waist pinched unbearably in almost everything, I am very grateful for variety! Fitting my adult, post baby body flatteringly is possible, and without extensive and expensive alterations!

qfbrenda

Veteran

I'm 5'1" and about 5 lbs heavier than you at the moment (going to get at least 3 of those off, but I digress...) and I'm frustrated along with you. I just had to send back a blazer from Coldwater Creek, which has everything in petite. I ordered the smallest size and I kid you not, the shoulders each went an inch past my shoulders! And it's not like I have a slim shoulder line... they are 39 inches, for crying out loud. I'm not exactly tiny. I follow fashion bloggers who are 4'10" and less than 100 lbs.... THAT'S tiny. There's no reason for the smallest size to be that huge on me. Sigh. I wish I would have saved my money on shipping.

Thistle

Veteran

Angie - thank you for the link to the reasons why the sizes are all over the map.

I would totally drive to the brick and mortar store and pay the extra to have the items tailored. Could you even imagine if they tailored it while you shopped so you could have a perfect garment when you left?

Transcona Shannon

Veteran

I have clothes in my closet that all fit and are sizes M, L, XL, 10, 12 and 14. It all depends on the store and the style. In shoes I'm anywhere from a 6, 6.5 and a 7. Same reason.

This used to make me feel bad when I had to size up in certain stores but I've gotten over it. it's just a number that they've sewn onto a tag - no matter to me. It's how the clothes fit and make me feel that matter.

Traci

Veteran

Sorry for the ot...
Thistle, I believe Nordstrom does offer tailoring as you describe. Not while you wait, but they offer pretty extensive alterations and they're somehow free. I'm not sure if the free requires a minimum purchase or a certain level of Nordies card, or what. Some of our more Nordie savvy members could explain more than I can.

Kim

Veteran

I bought a pair of skinny corduroys for the fall from Joe Fresh. I didn't bother to try them on because I "know" my size there, (I have some of their jeans too.) Tried them on at home, they are too tight...Size 6 is what I bought. I took them back for a size 8, (a good fit). Checked my jeans at home from Joe Fresh (also skinny legs) size FOUR (and a big four at that I had to take the waist in on these babies, but not on my cords)....

Same company, same coverage (bottoms) and 4 whole sizes different....Makes you want to go hmmmmm....

I think they may do it to keep you in the store longer. You *have* to try things on or you'll be returning things...Either way you are in the store longer and tempted to buy more.

Irene

Veteran

Angie, I get how it is hard to standarize women's sizing, but that doesn't give retaliers an excuse to size out (thanks for the word, Una!) half of the Spanish female population (or more). And that's what they do. I went shopping with a friend last week and she was trying on some nice floral t-shirts. She had to pick a Large and she's not even that big -she's NOT overweight by any means, plus she's a pear so carries most of her weight on her lower body- and the tops looked way to tight for my taste. I wish she could have sized up, but she couldn't because, hey, there are no bigger sizes! She kept the tops anyways because I guess she's used to wearing too tight tops, but I didn't love them on her, to be honest, and she would probably have sized up -she has no issues regarding sizing, I think- if she had been able to.

On a side note, I do see how inconsistent sizing might be actually good -somehow. Well, I can't speak for everybody here, but I tend to be a bit obsessive over things sometimes, and body image is one of them. So, if in one day I can be a 34, a 36, a 38 and a 40, it means I truly don't know what size I am, so I just don't really know my size at all. if I am clueless about my size, I can't really feel wrong about it. And even if I compare myself to other women, they will have the same issue as well so I won't really know what size they are either.

catgirl

Veteran

Shannon, you are right, and you have such a healthy attitude. You should be contagious! Actually, that is usually how I feel too. It's the online ordering that is aggravating me, because I don't have the option of trying on all the sizes without putting out a whole lot of $ and then constantly shipping and returning/exchanging.

And because it's not even consistent within brands, I can't be SURE I'll be an 8P in j. crew just because something fits, even if it's the same style from season to season! For example, the floral j. crew dress I posted is much tighter in the shoulders in the same size as the snow leopard one I have of the same dress. ARGH!

12