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Need parenting advice..even from non-parents

Isabel

Veteran

My 10 year old daughter has been very friendly with another girl for about 3 years. She is a lovely child. She has stayed over our house and spent much time with our family.

The problem is that she wants my daughter to sleep over her house, but I don't like the parental supervision over there. The parents are lovely, but very, very lax and enjoy watching ultimate fighting all the time. They have lots of men over to watch and the mom is now a pro ultimate fighter. They live and breathe it. They allow all their children, including their 6 year old to participate in these Ultimate Fighting parties. And they go on almost every day. The mother is now a pro UFC fighter and is really aggressive with the kids ( not in an abusive way ) and encourages physical fights. I don't want my daughter around this. The mom, unfortunately, is very judgmental of anyone who doesn't agree with her and would not shield my daughter from it. She thinks it is good for girls to be "tough" and this is her idea of it.

So, what do I say to my daughter and this other girl ? My daughter in no way can spend time there. But I don't want my daughter to think that this child is "bad" or that the parents are "bad". I also don't want to judge this other child's lifestyle. UGH !!!!

Any ideas ?

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41 replies

Latest reply was from Isabel

LACeleste

Veteran

Hi Isabel,

I have a 10 year old DD too.

I am having a lot of "all families are different and have their own rules " conversations. I tell my girl that my husband and I make the decisions that are right for our family and look out for her best interests. Issues like sleepovers, cell phone ownership, video game time, Instagram accounts, etc. are coming up constantly.

We don't waiver in our policies. There is no negotiation. We are reasonable but really don't care what the other kids and families are doing.

I err on the side of protectiveness and don't mind my rep as as a mean, strict Mom :).

Isabel

Veteran

LA, thanks for your reply. I appreciate it !

I also don't care either if she thinks that I am mean...but I don't want to malign the other child. She knows that I don't like UFC fighting. But I don't want to tell her that is the reason that I don't want her over there, because she will tell the other girl, who will tell her parents, who will be really insulted. I don't want this to affect her relationship with her friend.

Maybe there is no way to avoid it. : (

Jules

Veteran

I think 10 might be old enough to have this conversation with the understanding that she can't tell her friend because it would hurt her feelings. My DD is 8 and she would understand that and try to keep the secret, I think.

LACeleste

Veteran

Hi Isabel,

I don't know what the fighting thing is---It sounds scary. I will google it.

OK--Guess I live under a rock. Mixed martial arts. I wouldn't want the kids to be playing/acting out and get injured. Physical aggression is not a good idea w/ impressionable, energetic kids.

So many more appropriate fun things to do.

I understand the sensitivity involved. I don't have a good solution but I absolutely think you have a reason to shield your DD from the fighting stuff.

I think it is very nurturing of you to care about your DD's friendship but your standards and her protection come first.

Don't mean to sound preachy--supporting your instincts all the way.

Isabel

Veteran

Jules and LA... you both have good points.

Jules, as parents, we have to start this type of conversation at some point - that is a great point . Might as well start now. It is a risk that I have to take. And I don't want to have to start at 16...when more serious things present themselves.

LA, I find it very vicious fighting. There is almost no protection and you can kick people and elbow them. I think that it is no better than street fighting. I didn't know much until I found out that the family was deeply involved in this. I know that it is not drugs or porn..but I really hate this type of violence ( so does my husband ). You beat someone to a bloody pulp ( literally ) in order to win. And of course, you are right. My child's well being and our family values, in the end, should supersede others' feelings in the end.. You are not being preachy. Thanks for your honesty. : )

Echo

Veteran

First, I've always told my kids that we just don't do/allow sleepovers. Period. It doesn't matter who it is; there is no reason you can't have fun with your friends and sleep in your own bed. So my kids simply don't ask about sleepovers.

Regarding the larger issue of the parents and the home, I agree with you completely, and I wouldn't allow a child of mine to be exposed to that, either. At 9, my DD is old enough to understand that there are things we talk about at home that we don't say to other people, so I can explain things to her and not have her repeat them. That, of course, still doesn't solve what to tell the other girl about coming over.

I've had a similar situation with DS 11. He has a friend who comes from an abusive home, and I won't ever allow my DS to go there. But the friend is a wonderful boy who we have over to ur home and invite to parties, etc. In our situation, it is easier, since the friend's parents have never tried to contact us at all, so it is just the friend who asks my son to come over. I always just have DS ask his friend to come to our house instead and they don't really push the issue. If the boy or his parents were actually to ask me directly to have DS go there and asked me why not, I don't know what I would say. : /

Anyway, so I'm not much help. There is only so long you can avoid the issue and invite the other girl to your house instead.

Jules

Veteran

Open discussion can help - your daughter might have already formed her own opinions on UFC & the household that could be interesting. While your decision as parent is of course final, hearing what she thinks helps set the stage for open dialogue going forward, and eventually empowers her to have respectful discussions with her friends.
Right? I hope so, it's all theoretical at this point in my parenting career

Sheila

Veteran

Wow. My jaw practically hit the floor when I read your first post. Can this be for real? What kind of people are they? Sorry if I sound old-fashioned but Peace, Kindness, Tenderness, Regard for others...these all are much more important to me than trying to bully someone into submission and prove that I can dominate them by force.

I applaud your willingness to deal with this dilemma. The young girl in question needs to see different ways to deal with life and it sounds like your home and your family will help her learn that her own family is not the norm. Give her as much love and kindness as you can but do not apologize for wanting to protect your own daughter. We are the parents, this is what we do. Bravo, Isabel, you are a wonderful mother.

Gaylene

Veteran

Well, as Celeste, says you get to set the rules for your daughter and, if you don't want to permit her to spend time at her friend's house because you disapprove of their interests, you certainly don't have to give in to her pleas.

To be honest, though, I don't think it's possible to restrict your daughter's access to her friend's home without appearing to be judging their lifestyle and interests. Kids have a way of figuring out our feelings and attitudes regardless of how carefully we might try to be neutral in our explanations. Your daughter is probably already quite aware her friend's household is quite different than yours. Probably the bigger question, though, is to consider how long you can continue to restrict her access to other homes and lifestyles and if, by forbidding something, you run the risk of making it seem more attractive.

Personally, I preferred discussing things with my children instead of shielding them as they started getting closer to their teenage years; to my mind, that was a more pro-active approach to helping them make good choices when I wasn't around.

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

My parents never allowed sleepovers, but that's not the main issue here...

My dad has always watched action movies with us since we were a kid; and I remember getting sent home in Grade 3 because I used some choice words from one of them - But he always had a discussion with us about what we saw and how it made us feel: questions like, "When do you think it is okay to hit someone?" - and of course, he led by example himself.

My dad doesn't get the mixed martial arts stuff - he thinks it's just strange :p

Glory

Veteran

This is a challenging situation. I think you are correct not to allow time being spent there if you feel strongly about UFC. I don't allow it to be watched in my house.
I honestly would keep avoiding the issue and having the girl over. If pressed by DD I would make some excuses - we have to get up early, I have a special craft planned, you have medicine to take, etc. I know it isn't that helpful but 10 is young to try and explain and secrets are tough to keep at that age.

Anonymous

Your daughter is 10. This is the time to be strong and hold fast because it will be a roller coaster for a few years. When DS1 was just that age, we had a similar problem with a friend inviting him for sleepovers. I had bad vibes about the parents, drugs and maybe dealing, and we said no, that we didn't know the family well enough. It later was revealed to be much worse..child porn. DS was thankful he had not gone. Listen to those gut feelings.

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

OK, I do not have kids...Caveat there. If I did, I wouldn't want my sons or daughters around it, either.

My thought is that these parents HAVE to know that a lot of ppl would NOT approve of their choices to expose their kids to this. If they get offended, that is their choice. You have the right to disagree with them, and if they take issue with your disagreement, when everything else between your daughters seems fine, then that is sad and is THEIR issue. If it were me, I'd be straight-up honest with my kids and theirs about not approving of it and that being the reason your daughter isn't allowed over. You don't have to belittle or go on and on about it. Just say, you don't approve of it because it's too violent for you and your family. Period, end of discussion. You should NOT apologize for your point of view any more than they should theirs.

I don't agree with lying or ignoring the issue, and I don't think it's fair to ask your daughter to keep your opinion a secret. Who knows, she may not even have any occasion to bring it up on it's own. But asking her specifically not to say anything is too much, I think, to put onto her. I think she's at an age where she can begin to see that even though everyone doesn't agree you can and should still be civil and as respectful as possible, while still sticking to your values, and I think that's a really great lesson!

Isabel

Veteran

Thank you so much everyone !

Gaylene, your post made me realize that one of the reasons that I feel so uncomfortable is because I AM judging. And I need to that in order to assess situations. It has to be done.

Joy...you are absolutely correct. I just have really bad gut feelings. I also don't like the fact that there are men going in and out of the house all day long to watch the fighting. I don't know any of these men and almost all are not local.

And I need to re-visit the sleepover situation...Echo, that would solve some things.

Sheila what you described is one of my biggest issues. Just the desire to beat on an opponent to a bleeding pulp. It is like the ancient gladiators or men who were put in rings with lions. And spectators watched and cheered. : (

Glory, though my DD is 10, I am not sure that she wouldn't tell her friend.

Echo, unfortunately, I have not done a lot with my kids about keeping things "in the family." My son is on the autism spectrum and has severe anxiety. Our family life has been an open book to counselors, therapists, doctors, teachers, and so on. I have always tried to have my son not be afraid to bring up an issue so that we could get help. I need to start teaching what you have taught your children. Some things have to be kept to the family.

Jules, as you and Echo suggest, I need to talk to my daughter more. She knows that her father, grandfather and I just hate UFC fighting. But I need to take it further.

Lyn, UFC fighting will keep you business. : ( They call it mixed martial arts, but it is really a legal beat down with no rules. Anyone that can hold someone in a choke hold and keeping beating their opponent's face until the other person is unconscious and/or bleeding profusely is a nasty streetfight, IMO.

Jenava, you are absolutely right. I am so grateful for your input. I like getting input from people who don't have children because they tend to be a bit more removed. You are correct, if they get offended, it is their problem. As long as I am decent about it. That is all that I can do.

You have all been so helpful. I cannot thank you enough.

I am going to call off sleepovers in total.

I am going to talk to my daughter about UFC and how I don't want her to see that violence, but that the child and her mom are always welcome at our house and that she go with them to an outside event where there will be no fighting ( like the YMCA or a museums or a game ). And, as Jenava said, I may just tell the mom that I don't want my daughter to see all that violent programming. I would want to know if another child's parent did not feel comfortable with them at my house.

XXXXXXXXXXX

Adelfa

Veteran

Just chiming in.... I agree that 10 is old enough to have a discussion. As others have indicated, at 10 there's a receptiveness that may or may not happen a few years later. I agree that it's putting too much on a 10 year old to ask her to keep a secret, but I think you could gently talk about the potential consequences of her discussing it with her friend in terms of hurting feelings, etc.

I've never watched MMA but strange men--No!

I think you're doing well here, Isabel!

Mary Beth (formerly LBD)

(website)

Veteran

I don't have kids. But I watched my sister let her kids go off to friends' houses - friends whose parents allowed them to watch R-rated movies and cable TV shows, and TV shows like "Family Guy". Don't me wrong, I enjoy many R-rated films and television, and I enjoy Family Guy, but I would never let a child on my watch view that stuff. Too adult, too racy, too violent, too desensitizing, too.

Now my sister lets them watch this stuff at home, shrugging and saying, 'well, they're just gonna watch it at their friends'. I phoned my sister one day and found out my nephews, age 10 and age 13, were watching "Full Metal Jacket". SERIOUSLY.

Over time, this attitude has not-so-gradually led to her kids being jaded, desensitized, overworldly, acquisitive, wanting every material possession - and being utterly bored and dissatisfied by it. And their manners are terrible. It has made their adult relatives on both sides of the family not want to spend as much time with them. I will be honest, I often share that feeling.

So.... yes. I realize this wasn't all because of inappropriate television shows - but - how do I put this? Stick to your guns. Stick to your standards. When you let things erode your belief system and set of aesthetics... it causes ripples in everything in your life, and that of your children's. "No" is one of the most important words a loving parent can say to a child, and one of the most difficult to say.

Ten years old is old enough to take your daughter aside, and explain that she is not allowed to go over there, but that you love and admire her friend very much, and that her friend is always welcome to come over - if you are willing to make that offer

Deborah

Veteran

I haven't read the other comments yet so forgive any repetition.

I have a 10 year old son who has a school friend who comes to play at our house from time to time. The parents are 'nice' but I am very concerned about their lack of supervision. We have simply explained to Master 10 that his friend may come to our house but he cannot go to his friends house because I am not comfortable with the lack of supervision and the values that they demonstrate. We have been honest with Master 10 and explained that this is a private family conversation not to be shared. We have been generous in our conversation ensuring that we are not expressing judgement or that this family is wrong... simply that they make difference decisions to us.

If you think you daughter is ready for it, I think an open and honest conversation with her would be appropriate.

DonnaF

Veteran

Isabel,

What I am hearing from you is that it isn't merely UFC that you are against -- and truly, I think that would be enough as it sounds pretty bad. But it is the entire context of lax supervision, strange men going in and out, parental encouragement of kids to engage in that type of fighting, and probably a few other things. And is this fighting live or on TV?

If the UFC is on TV, I guess I would regard it as a family allowing their children to watch *R* rated films: Not something I approve of at all but not a 100% deal breaker. But the whole rest of it, especially the lax supervision and encouraging kids to fight, are complete deal breakers for me. If it were my DD's friend, I would explain that I require more supervision than she would get, and although I have met the parents, I haven't met the various men that go in and out.

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

I have seen the results of those "legal beat downs" and you're right, it keeps me in business, but it makes me sad because there is nothing I can do for these people. I can't grow them a new brain.

Best of luck with your DD - she's lucky to have you as a mom!

Aquamarine

Veteran

I have to say I agree with La Belle. You get one shot at raising your kids. Stick to your guns, so to speak No one cares about your kids more than you do. Your daughter will not be scarred for life if you limit access to this other child's home. You cannot allow how others raise their kids to influence what matters most to you in raising yours (i.e., exposure to violence, questionable tv shows, etc.).

This friend, this worry, is but a blip in her life. She probably won't remember this issue in a few years.

kkards

Veteran

isabel, not a mom, but i want to add, it maybe that your daughter is looking for a reason not to go to this girl's house, but she doesn't want to hurt her friends feelings. your saying no will give her an out.

Irene

Veteran

I think sleepovers are a fantastic way of giving both parents and children some time apart. They have fun somewhere else, somewhere where they are controlled by other people (who are not their parents), somewhere where things are done differently and thus they can learn to accept other people's rules and manners. To adapt, and to behave. They learn to eat what's on their plate even if they don't like it, to sleep at a set time they might not be used to, etc. Also, it's good for a kid to feel kind of independent and learn to be on their own. The parents of course get alone-time, which is also nice.

Now, onto your particular problem. That family sounds scary. It's one thing to do things differently -like, say, pray before meals, eat vegan food or go to bed super early-, but I wouldn't want my kids around people like these either. Sleepover or random visits. Beware with their child too, lest she starts hitting your daughter one of these days.

PS: I have to admit, when I was that age I would go to my friend's house and watch a Disney movie. Then we would eat some pasta with tomato sauce for dinner, and play with dolls until it was time to go to bed. The most terrible thing that ever happened was my friend hitting the wall with her head accidentally. There were no adult TV programs or anything like that. I can't recall watching TV past cartoons time.

ironkurtin

Veteran

I know a few mixed-martial artist folks and, extreme sports moves aside, they're usually really nice people. Just like goths may look scary, but inside they're the sweetest, nicest people. They dress up on the outside to hide their soft insides. I wouldn't automatically assume that just because these folks are all-out in the ring that bad things happen when they are out of it.

That aside, as a parent you have absolute veto right over your children. I would just be honest why. A simple, "I am not on board with all that fighting and you are not going," is just fine. If your kid or the other mom calls you on it, stand your ground! The other mom is okay with it, you're not, you're not judging, but it's not your thing, so live and let live, but no sleepovers. This is how you feel and that's how it is.

I personally don't get the sleepover thing, but my daughter loves it. She doesn't do much sleeping though, I'll say that.

Anonymous

Well, I had a strict "no sleep over policy". I really saw no use in sending my child to sleep on someone else's house, so I never faced this one. I think honesty is the best policy in this case. You are not really saying they are bad people, you just don't like their everyday life. That's what I would say.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

FWIW, I'm going to share my experience.

I slept over at good little friends houses frequently, and these little friends slept over at our house too. And I had a very protective Mama. It was an excellent way to be exposed to a different set of house rules, types of food, activities, and cultures. Like spending the Sabbath with my little jewish friend gave me an appreciation for Israel at a very early age. I also enjoyed Indian food and large families with my little Hindi friend. I spent time sleeping over at a little Auzzie friend's house, Justine, whose Papa was a single parent - and it made me love my Mama even more. I felt so, so bad for her that she didn't have a Mama. And I loved going horse riding with my great little Welsh friend Harriet who lived in walking distance from the stables. So I would just spend the night at her house every so often - so that we could walk to the stables. My Mama was fine with it. And I am to this day grateful for the exposure in my formative years. (I only spent the night with little friends I liked).

I'm sure if my Mama did NOT want me to stay over somewhere, she'd have put her foot down. And with a new set of friends as a teen, sleepovers were so much fun. Definitely part of growing up and learning - for me, anyway.

Isabel, I have no words of wisdom. My sleepover experiences go back to the '70s and '80s - and parenting was very different back then. Our parents allowed us to do things that would never happen today. It's never easy, is it? I enjoyed reading the opinions on this thread and wish you luck. xo

JAileen

Veteran

As someone else said, go with your gut feeling. Many years ago, when my son was eight or so, a child from the Y wanted to invite him for a sleepover. On a school night. The mother, who I had never met, called and insisted it would be fine, she'd make him a lunch for school, etc. I refused and never regretted it. If I knew the family, if it were on the weekend, etc., maybe.

Anyway, my point is it's your child, you're responsible for his safety, and if it doesn't feel right, just don 't do it. And don't feel bad about it.

Isabel

Veteran

Thank you for all the recent opinions. I am so grateful to have such a fantastic and wise group of women to bounce things off of.

IK, I have known the mom ( as an acquaintance for 6 years. long before her fascination with Ultimate Fighting ) and I know what goes on in the house because of what the mom, the little girl, and their babysitter have told me. They ARE very nice people. In fact, the mom is very interesting. And the grandmother is wonderful too. ( I don't know the father well ) So what I have said are not speculations but actualities. The activities in the house are just very scary and uncertain to me. It is unfortunate. But you are right, I have to stand my ground on this.

Adelfa...I really like the idea of discussing the consequences if she repeats what we say. I really don't want to hurt the other child.

Donna F. yes, you are right. It is so much more than the fighting. It is the whole atmosphere. Donna, the fighting is on tv and they re-watch matches over and over in order to study them. There is "sparring" that goes on live at the house too. Especially now that the mom does it professionally. The father is getting ready to go semi-pro and quit his job, too. Apparently, there are "surprise" attacks at home to train reaction times.

la belle and aqua marine, I feel the same way and I need to stick to it.

KKards, that is actually a very interesting perspective. In the 3 years that my daughter has been friendly with this girl, my daughter has never been to her house to play. Ever. In fact, the child prefers coming over here. You might be onto something.

Irene and Angie, I agree completely about it teaching tolerance and resilience. Unfortunately, those types of communities don't exist much anymore. We are also a very homogenous community. I find that many playdates are to keep the children busy while the parents do something else...so supervision is always a huge concern for me. We have a very high gun ownership in our town, too...so at first , when my kids had playdates, I always ask about guns and how they were stored. I ask about dogs. I don't allow R rated movies. It makes me sad that it does seem so complicated now. Childhood friendships just shouldn't have to be this way, with so much imposition on a friendship. But it is the way it is...and so many of you are correct in saying that I better lay the ground work.

Zap, thank you. That is a good approach. I am not judging the people involved, but rather the "situation" and that I feel safer with the girls here.

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Isabel

Veteran

thank you JAileen !!!! I don't feel right about it.

Echo

Veteran

I don't judge parents who allow sleepovers for their children, but there were two situations that happened where I grew up that made me decide "never" for my own kids. In one case, a girl was badly hurt by a family dog, and in another, there were allegations of abuse from a friend of an older brother.

I am all about tolerance and appreciating differences, but there are just too many things out of my hands in a sleepover situation. Like was already mentioned, what about guns in the home? Pets? Even if the parents don't watch questionable things on the telly, often older siblings do.

My kids have eaten dinner with others, been to family gatherings with other people, etc. They are often very involved with friends's families. But my dad used to say, "Nothing good happens after midnight", and that generally holds true. For my family, it is best for my kids to be home and in bed each night, but as they say, YMMV. There are just too many potentially dangerous variables for my comfort level.

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