Kibbe: am I FN or SD?? - YouLookFab Forum

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Kibbe: am I FN or SD??

Keturah

Veteran

First a disclaimer: Kibbe is but not the end all, be all for fashion types. I still feel body shape and personal taste trump style "types."

So that said...

When I first heard of Kibbe and took his test, it was maybe 10 years ago. I got Flamboyant Natural, which totally fit me personality wise. I think even know it may explain why I go back and forth between more simple looks and bohemian styles and more glamorous looks with bombshell styles.

I have assumed this past year that I was Soft Dramatic because my body shape is very bombshell and hourglass. I love glamorous looks, and my style icons are Sophia Loren.

But then I recently read about inserting your face in photo collages of Kibbe types. So today I did that. And stun-ola! My face seems to fit FN and not SD. But my body is Sophia and Ava Gardner, minus the boobs. I don't know that I am SD or FN...or somewhere in between.

I know many of you have done the Kibbe thing. If you would care to join me in the Kibbe craziness...whatcha think?

I did 2 profile photo tries at each type.

1/2, SD
3/4, FN

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Body Type

33 replies

Latest reply was from Keturah

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Heh. We had a very fun thread about this a couple of months back. I'd decoded the quiz in a very superficial way and spent an entertaining few days playing guess-everyone's-Kibbe-type. It was an amusing parlour game.

I see your point about being between those two types. Looking at you, I can see why you might identify as FN because of your bone structure, but I'm leaning towards SD because I see a mix of yin and soft yang in your features, hair and body type.

I'm somewhat in the same position between these two types, scoring mostly strong yang/soft yang with some very distinctive features at the yin end. Still not quite sure where I fall in the spectrum, but I've been playing a little bit of both lately.

From the quiz:

SD: To qualify for this theme, your bone structure should be Yang-dominant while your body type (flesh) and/or your facial features should be primarily Yin.

FN: To qualify for this theme, your bone structure should be extremely Yang-dominant while your body type (flesh) and facial features will be moderately Yang-dominant.

I'm hoping Chiara will be along later. She seems to have some quite detailed knowledge on this topic.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Another quick thought... I think far too much emphasis is placed on "style types" and personae with Kibbe, with some disastrously misleading results. I've found it most useful to explain why certain shapes, textures and silhouettes work better than others, and thinking about them while I put outfits together.

So when I choose to be one or the other for the day, I'm thinking more about structure, texture and the overall effect I'm creating, rather that whether I should channel Princess Diana or Cate Blanchett.

Staysfit

Veteran

Hm, When I took the test I came out very strong Yang, in fact all my answers were Yang and I was Dramatic, but my face doesn't seem to be Dramatic to me, and my personality is maybe only mildly dramatic if even. That's where the discussion about Angelic subtypes came up, etc. I think Kibbe bodies and faces don't always match.

Keturah

Veteran

Approprio, okay so right! I think I identified with the facial bone structure. And I am free spirited, which I once read as a trait for FN. It's just me and it kind of goes ahead of me.

But having said that, since I started dressing more SD, I get wow that's a beautiful blouse/dress/pants. GAH! I'm told I'm a very classy dresser by girlfriends new and old. That's nice. But I think I'm still working towards "YOU look great" not just individual clothes. My latest WIW got a compliment from a random patron who said I looked really lovely. So now I'm like...hmmm, how do I do that again with other clothes?

Thus, my revisiting Kibbe.

However you've made the best point I've ever heard re: Kibbe: it's about silhouettes, structure, texture, detail, not channeling Princess Di. And that's why revisiting Kinbe made me a bit frightened "I don't want to be so and so!" (Not only that, the Pinterest clothes/style choices for each type makes me cringe--many of them seem dated, impractical, or unrealistic.)

That actually makes me feel a lot better and helps me look at Kibbe better.

Now, not certain I quiet understand what SD sihlouettes are and how to use them to my advantage. But I have gained some clarity for certain Thank you for that!!

Keturah

Veteran

Staysfit, I think that is possible. I heard of the angelic subtype in the book, Shopping for the Real You. I found her test/checklist more helpful than Kibbe for discovering my type. But little advice for dressing for my type concerning best silhouettes, etc.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

My instincts (which enjoyed approprio's analysis of them :-)) say SD. I see a lot of yin (romantic) in you.

Keturah

Veteran

Shevia, I agree with you and Approprio. And I enjoyed both your comments

I was trying to be open to the possibilities. I love SD but I struggle to dress casual sometimes because I still feel so over the top compared to the rest of the world. So I thought...did I miss it?! Am I really something else?

Pinterest and Polyvore are not helpful in the matter, either. metallic jeweled sandals paired with a gorgeous maxi dress and gold cuff aren't conducive to traipsing through an old mining town or sightseeing in the city. Though I love such clothing.

Chiara

Gah! I just typed a reply and it got swallowed, so frustrating.
1. Kibbe is purely about how you look to other people, and about how you appear relative to them. So, it's most helpful to look at photos of yourself taken from around 1-2 metres away, with other women- don't try to work it out based on selfies taken at arms length! Kibbe is most definitely not about who you are- just how you appear to others on a pretty superficial level (so, would they cast you as queen in the throne room, or warrior queen on horseback :))
2. When you look at those photos, ask yourself what you notice- do you look longer, more delicate, more voluptuous, more distant or restrained, more open, neater or messier etc? You've narrowed it down to FN vs SD; N types generally appear more open, more approachable, more active, more physically powerful. D types often appear a bit distant or formidable, severe even (especially in N type clothes), and less physically powerful (although SD often feels voluptuous, this does not equate to looking physically strong) .
3. SD and FN can have a lot of overlap, in the real world. Crucial differences come down to accessories.
>SD needs

fitted clothing and fine fabrics, and ornament of a 'cultivated exotic' kind, eg orchid and hibiscus prints, snake cuffs or animal head rings with jeweled eyes, chandelier earrings, jeweled sandals, large draped pashmina, regal ornamentation (SD is the queen in the throne room, not the warrior queen)
>FN is the warrior queen-

less fitted clothes that enable more movement, appear more robust or with rougher finishes and textures, and finishes that move eg fringes on bags or boots, suede, gladiator sandals, blanket ponchos, thick or felt knits, burnished or hammered finishes on cuffs or hoop earrings.
Sometimes Kibbe type and coloring interact in weird and wonderful ways- an autumn SD might be able to go with more natural feeling details. A light season FN might need finer fabrics. But an SD will still need fine fabrics or fitted clothes, or else they will look messy, and an FN will still look constrained in SD style clothing.
I have a pinterest page on what it looks like to dress in the wrong Kibbe type and in the right type (its my interpretation- I'm not saying I'm always right!) https://www.pinterest.com/chichiara/ but it is useful in practicing on yourself.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Keturah, so sorry to sit on your thread like this, but this is a fascinating discussion for me too! It's so true what you say about the terrible Kibbe styling all over the Internet, particularly for the FN type. Nobody should be forced to look at that.

Chiara, that's really helpful. I like what you say about the distinction between the two types and how you cast them as the regal queen and the warrior queen. Enjoyed your pinterest boards too. Interesting what you say about D types looking severe in N type clothes. Maybe that's where the scary comes from.

I've found it helps to know where the distinction lies so you can play to one or the other. For instance, I think my facial appearance, proportions and demeanour are mostly FN, but my body shape is what Trinnie and Susannah call a lollipop, which is voluptuous SD all the way down.

So for me, the difference lies in the fit. My SD style tends to be sleek, tailored and very pulled together, while the FN side is more relaxed. When I dress FN, I need to make sure there's enough shape definition to keep me from looking bulky. With SD, I can wear those softly tailored shapes but I need to keep it clean. I'm not big on regal ornamentation, which can make me look like I'm in drag.

Astrid

Veteran

Chiara, thanks for chiming in here. Kibbe is purely about how you look to other people, and about how you appear relative to them. That was just a lightbulb moment for me. And I've had a look on your Pinterest boards and found them very interesting too. On the Kibbe thread from a while ago, Approprio suggest SN for me and several people agreed. I couldn't make sense of it, but I think I can see it now.

Keturah, I agree that Pinterest and Polyvore aren't really helpful. I find those original descriptions hard to grasp, so it is tempting to look at those pictures floating around the web. But from the little I have understood they seem not very accurate. Probably similar to color analysis and seasons, a lot of the Pinterest results for a search with "Soft Summer" make me want to run screaming,

Keturah

Veteran

Chiara, thank you for reposting your reply! (I hate it when a post disappears!)
This is all so helpful and enlightening!!

Thank you for the distinctions between SD and FN. I think I'm still somewhere in the middle depending on how I feel like dressing, though I'm seeing how SD is probably me.

While Kibbe is all about superficial, I'm so much about dressing myself as who I am inside, or at least I feel happy so I will wear X. I love the open loose feeling of FN type clothes in the summer. but I also love SD. And I naturally gravitate towards it. Sometimes FN feels sloppy (open?). I have that problem with wearing more "boho" styles. But then there's the whole, how do you do casual as an SD?

I love rich and exotic, or cultivayed exotic as you call it. I began watching movies many years ago from the Golden Age of hollywood and my heart and eye were captured by the glamour. Prior to that, I was a hippie. But I wanted to look and feel beautiful, and being a hippy didn't feel it met that. Now granted, FN isn't exactly backwoods hippie. But hippy is how I've dressed up until college. And then I started to realize some things, change, and grow. I spent several years trying all sorts of styles and clothing items.

Here's one of the few photos I have of myself standing a couple meters away. I'm next to my sister, which is especially telling because she, to me, is a one of the N types. I think I am not so much N. Similar outfits but totally different bodies.

And then me in a little short G dress? I have to say...I saw a SD in a mini dress on your Pinterest board and oh my, that looks like me

I think I look voluptuous and tall, with a lot of curves. My sister looks broad, blunt, powerful and strong.

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E

Veteran

So I read most of your post, then opened the collages, and your face blended so well in the first two, I assumed that was FN from what you'd said. Then I looked at the second two and thought yep, she doesn't really match here as much. And then I went back to your post and discovered the first collages were SD! So clearly my eye thinks you match that camp, for what it's worth.
I think you can tone down the glamour and still be true to your lines, like in your harem pants post (were they harem? Maybe just full trousers gathered at the hems?). And you're getting lots of good feedback in real life. So as long as you're enjoying it, I think you should keep playing w SD.

Keturah

Veteran

Approprio, you may so sit on my post! Please! I am enjoying the fascinating discussion and it's more fun when it's not just myself thinking alone

I see what you mean about keeping SD softly tailored and avoiding too much bulk with FN. And sometimes FN feels too masculine to me, not enough feminine to it. As for regal ornamentation...I can totally for for that I feel naked if I leave the house without at least a good chunky cocktail
ring.

Keturah

Veteran

Astrid, I see the SN on you and thanks to Pinterest, I was sitting there thinking, Soft Summer is a rather drab color palette. I'm sure it's beautiful IRL. But you're right, SS is not represented well on Pinterest and that's quite unfair.

Keturah

Veteran

E, oh that's actually really lovely to hear you thought I was SD part of my fear is I've invested time, money, and thought in SD styles the past year, both intentionally and unintentionally. So the thought of switching to FN wasn't thrilling me.

Thank you for the good feedback about the harem pants and the Real Life feedback here on YLF! I think honestly, I get stuck in what "casual" means. I get boxed into doing things a certain way. If
it's casual it must look X. But really, it's all about perspective. Casual for me will probably never be a pair of track shorts and a tee shirt. Ha!

Continuing on with SD

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

I think you look more like SD in the examples and in what I've seen here on the forum. You seem to like some drama in your outfits, hair and makeup yet you have a softer side with your curls, personality (as far as I can tell at least) and choice of fabrics, etc.

Chiara

Wow, just lost another reply! My ipad keeps logging me out, I think.
Keturah, I think you have 3 big strains to your style, natural AND dramatic AND romantic, and I think you may be most satisfied when you find ways of combining these three elements.
Now, because I'm at home with a sick child today, I tried to find some clothes that may combine these elements see here http://pinterest.com/chichiara.....cromantic/
This is purely for discussion and inspiration (and if that inspiration includes 'that's vile, I'd never wear it', well that is inspiration of a kind :).
I think the trick often seems that an item of clothes might have two elements in its construction, and then introduce a third element via its fabric type. So that might be a way of breaking it down.
The other thing I did when getting my head around my style was come up with some images that somehow encapsulated what I was looking for (see my color and feel pinterest board- the image of the cloud in the room was very helpful for me, managed to communicate the idea of both drama (a cloud in a room?!?) and lightness (its a cloud, its light, ephemeral but also simple). So I would think 'is this item of clothing approaching that combination or not? If not, what doesn't fit, and can I still work with that?

Keturah

Veteran

texstyle, thank you <3 SD resonates with me the most. And gosh, isn't this Kibbe/style/fashion stuff endlessly fun and fascinating?! Maybe I'm boring and overanalyzing it. but I really am enjoying it and finding it helpful.

Chiara, I hate it when the iPad logs me out of stuff! And I am so sorry your child is sick. That's a bummer. Hope s/he is better soon

Definitely good point: those 3 types present for sure! I think I struggle because i also felt I had to identify with one and embrace it to the hilt, but have found that hard to do IRL.

I kind of took your idea and ran with it... I went through my Pinterest image board. (Not my style board.)
https://www.pinterest.com/ketu.....ture-take/
Aside from the portraits, over and over again I saw reoccurring themes in my images: laughter and smiles, safety, resting, dancing, touch, kissing, beauty both natural and glamorous.

It tells me something: I like joy. I like movement. I like touch and security, beauty, and natural every day life. What does this do for me when it comes to clothes? Can I dance in it? Can I laugh in it? Can I fall asleep in it? Can I touch someone or be touched while wearing it? (Or maybe, does it feel good to the touch?) Does it make me smile? Does it make me feel beautiful?

Now, these questions do NOTHING to tell me about line, silhouette and shape. But what they do tell me is... I am a person who dresses by how I feel. Heart first, head second. I'm realizing that this is valuable for me to know and my sense of style.

Second thing...thank you, thank you for making me a Pinterest board! It was indeed helpful. I realize a lot of the images you posted are similar to items I already own or would purchase. The tops not quite as much, but I have most of them in tunic or dress form! And it helps me see the lines and silhouettes.

So maybe what this all tells me is... I need to trust myself more.

My brain is now at saturation level.

tulle

Veteran

My vote would be for SD. Your feminity is such an important part of your look. Part of the confusion may come from the fact that some of the Kibbe types (like SDs) seem most in character in the sort of evening dress most of us rarely wear these days, whereas the FNs look more casual and relate-able, if that makes sense. It's been years since I read the Kibbe book, but I paid some attention at the time to the Flamboyant Natural section because it fit my sister perfectly (she's broad-shouldered, casual and breezy, carries a bit of extra weight well.) The detail that sticks in my mind is the observation that FNs look good in layers, especially long, loose, fluid layers. SDs would probably be overwhelmed by all those layers, so you might find that a useful clue.

Jeweled

Veteran

Keturah, another quality I see in the lovely pinterest board you shared is the beauty of innocence.

Is that quality also part of your essence or style?

Chiara, I love the Natural-Dramatic-Romantic pinterest board you put together for Keturah - a lot of inspiration there for combining 3 essences / Kibbe styles.

Anonymous

Funny on the take that Kibbe is how you look compared to others. In the U.S., I look short compared to others, because most American women are over 5'2" tall. Put me in Central America, however, and it all changes. I'm taller than most women there. I guess it can be said that perception is reality, but it all depends.

Marina

I need to confess. I have a big, big problem with kibbe styles. I believe people may interpret them in useful ways if they want to (like chiara, I loved her pinterest ideas), but I really have a problem with the main idea of our style been determined by our physical traits.

I don't know if I read some bad/incomplete material about kibbe styles or what, but I feel it puts to much credit in body and facial traits and totally ignores the way people perceive us is directly affected by our posture, how open and loud we laugh, the way we behave, the way we speak, the way we look at others, the way we feel about ourselves (and about our clothes). And that's 90% personality.

Makes perfect sense to me that a garment will look different in different bodies and a specific color will create different effects with different color sets, so we need to learn how shapes, textures and colors will work on us specifically, but shape and color are not the same as personal style. For me body shape/proportions and color set is like been given a blank canvas and a palette. Those are just tools. Personal style is more about what we choose to create with them.

rachylou

Veteran

Taken on the whole, I think SD. And I think Kibbe is made to be based on the instant glance, initial impression.

Alassë

Veteran

I would agree, SD.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Buckle up ladies. I'm ranting now.

Keturah, I love that your interpretation of SD is radically different from mine and yet still recognisable. It showed up beautifully in the ensemble you showed in the Hello '70s thread, which takes an SD/FN look and adds an instinct for the romantic. Quite exquisite, and something I could never pull off. But change a few details and it could be me too.

Marina, you're quite right. I'd go further and say that systematically classifying a woman's appearance is absurd. Because that's all Kibbe is - a set of meta-styles describing how we look according to Western beauty standards. Are you angular or fleshy? Dramatic or romantic? Natural or gamine? Fill in the blanks and find your perfect look. It's snake oil.

You can discover all you need to know about Kibbe's relevance to personal expression by comparing Keturah and I side by side. Two completely different women from different cultures on different sides of the world. Could you even begin to imagine us in each other's clothes? I don't think even Kibbe would try to dress us in a similar fashion.

But still it's a useful tool. The SD/FN definitions give me a framework for playing up the masculine and feminine sides of my style identity and drawing clearer boundaries between them. It gives me ways of thinking about structure and proportion that go beyond body shape. It explains why certain things work brilliantly and other things fall flat. It might even help me avoid a few mistakes in the future, but I doubt it.

The only way we can trust Kibbe is by taking from it what we need from it and interpreting it for ourselves. Otherwise we'd all be in costume.

Keturah

Veteran

Tulle, that again solidifies I'm not a FN, at least not purely. I will do one long, dramatic sweeping layer -- such as this beauty (I want, I want!)

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/101260691593564075/

Or a silky kimono. Otherwise, I don't wear a lot of layers. I've tried and it feels weird, off, like I'm trying too hard.

bettycrocker, excellent point! I think it really is all about perception compared to those around you. I'm tall enough to technically, by Kibbe's standards, to be an FN if going by height alone. I'm 5'10ish (5'11?). On some things Kibbe seems clear and in others, not so much. There seems to be a lot of fluidity to his statements?

Rachylou, Alasse, I'm going with SD! It is the clear winner And that is a YAY moment!

Jeweled, I didn't see the innocence until you said something. And such a good question! Innocence is a big part of who I am. I can't say I ever consciously recognized it but seeing it now all over the place. My family has always called me the butterfly, a free spirit, and a tender heart. Sometimes I wonder if that is what creates some tension with the more womanly sensual side of me. But I'm also not the big doe-eyed gamine/ingenue type, nor the purely whimsical. I guess, in short, I see it in little bits here and there in my clothing/style choices, but I'm not certain how to--or if I already do --consciously express it. Thank you for giving me another expression to consider expressing!

Marina, I can totally see what you're saying about it being superficial really. I tend to feel that way about most clothing systems, to varying degrees. I think initially, I wanted to pin down my type so I could, as Approprio put it, fill in the blanks and have my perfect outfits and perfect formula. Well, that didn't happen, and I'm glad! Just having this discussion with all of you has helped me see a lot about my closet and myself.

As for Kibbe, his advice on silhouettes and lines, shapes, yin/yang, that sort of thing, I likey! The rest, the whole costumey you're this type part -- I think that impedes personal style. At least for me. I can overanalyze things so much that I forget there is great value in being me and being intuitive about it. I found this happened when I tried discovering my season, worried about always wearing or choosing the perfect colors. Finally realized it for how much fun I would be missing if I didn't occasionally wear the wrong color, try things, and just enjoy my clothes and the process of style.

And besides that...Kibbe just doesn't get lifestyle and that is probably the real frustration I've had with him! The main principles of silhouettes and lines can be applied to casual clothing. But not giving casual ideas, casual examples -- that would have been helpful, I think.

I'm so glad you chimed in!!

Approprio, oh thank you!!! Okay, yes to SD! I do see it in us both. It is quite interesting to see how different and yet how the same it is. Sidenote: I really love that dress, and the whole outfit. It felt like it was really me without trying hard. I would love to see your version of Hello 70s!

We've had good discussion about this all. If anything all our asking questions and deep discussions have helped me see beyond my Kibbe type (SD, I really am going with it!). It's helped me think about my own personal style, about clothes, and about who I am. That is infinite wisdom and solution than just having type I can fill the blanks in. But it is helpful to understand why certain lines and silhouettes look best on me. However, I see how I want to trust myself more, and not get hung up in having the perfect outfits or makeup on -Kibbe or no Kibbe.

Keturah

Veteran

and for kicks, I went through my pinterest style board just now. (Well, not all 3,000+ images. But several of them.) I realized that I have changed some. The folksy earthy (natural?) side of me is more refined and subdued. But a lot of the images still hold true for me! I wish I could spend my days running around in giant satin and silk jersey gowns But alas, that isn't reality for my paycheck or my life.

https://www.pinterest.com/ketu.....varjak-ve/

Chiara

Kibbe is, in my opinion, completely superficial, and generally stereotypical. This makes sense, given I think he drew on ideas that came from the studio system of 'creating' stars in the 40s and 50s. Star X was a bombshell, Star Y was an innocent girl-next-door (irrespective of their lifestyles off camera!). You only have to think of someone like Marilyn Monroe to understand how this kind of typing completely overrides the nuances of the person.
I think this is also where the "performance" aspect of Kibbe comes in- helpful for work (in certain contexts) and going out, but what about those times when you're not trying to 'act' or 'have an effect', you're just doing stuff (hiking, looking after kids etc etc). Maybe clothes need to do other things, then.
The most useful lessons I've taken from Kibbe would be:
-experiment with dressing for the things that are physically distinctive about you, instead of thinking in terms of concealing or compensating
-understanding why some looks are so, so bad. I spent years wondering why classic clothes made me look frumpy and ungainly- now I understand, I'm a D type, I need clothes that work with my exaggerated length and narrowness. So now I do a classic style, but the shirt is narrow and has exaggerated collar height and cuffs, the trousers go to the ground, and it works.

Firecracker (Sharan)

Veteran

Very interesting discussion, Keturah. I continue to learn from these kinds of analyses. You prompted me to take the Kibbe quiz, and once again, I came up with the same result. There really is no getting around my type--Dramatic Classic. And yet I don't want to dress in the style as it's typically described (I put it that way, because I haven't read the actual book). Chiara offers such wisdom on how to make sense of the Kibbe stuff and useful things to take away from it. Thanks!

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