Kibbe again, both general and specific

Ginger

There has much excellent discussion on Kibbe types in the past. I keep diving into it periodically, getting very confused, and not doing anything about it. But this time I found some very illuminating information that helped me put it in context. It started making more sense when I realized it's a lot more than just a body shape quiz.

Gaylene wrote on one of the more recent discussions, "I've become convinced Kibbe's intention has always been to liberate women from a conventional, narrow ideal of feminine beauty by providing them with a tool which offered multiple versions of feminine beauty--a way of celebrating our uniqueness instead of trying to camouflage and disguise our ‘imperfections’. His style cues revolve around line, shape, and proportion, not whatever is currently fashionable, and his guidelines are suggestions to be explored, not dictates about what we should, and shouldn't, wear.
"Taken out of context, the questionnaire, images, and categories are of limited value. But, when I used Kibbe's tools as a stepping off point for some serious personal reflection, I ended up with a real insight into why some looks "get" me, while others are a constant struggle."

The blog Style Syntax says very similar things. A Kibbe type, or "Image Identity," is not supposed to be a stereotype that you should try to fit in; it's just a set of tools best-chosen for who you are. "An Image ID is who you are... Your Image ID is a framework, and you place your own style on top of it. Kibbe’s Metamorphosis is about accepting your physicality and essence for what they are and stopping feeling like the grass is greener. Image IDs don’t place a limit on your self-expression."

But the flexibility of the style types is also what makes it so hard to DIY.
There are some quizzes out there, but ultimately they reduce it to a formula based on subjective body descriptors. That’s where it gets difficult.

And the whole reason I posted: Yes, I need help in figuring out what my type is! However, I'm NOT looking to this as a need to know my style, because I know what my style is. I'm the Duchess Next Door, and the adjectives I've chosen are Detailed, Retro, Colorful, Graceful, and Smart. Mostly, I'm curious! But also, if the Kibbe system provides some more tools, I would like to have them.

And now for my confusion. First, that quiz!
I end up with mostly D's, for which there is NO answer. The others are split between A’s and B’s, which also has no interpretation. So throw that out the window.

Reading about the types is not very helpful, either. I have some significant body modifiers, and they seem to point in contradictory directions, or none at all.

* I'm tall, about 5'9". Which, strictly speaking, excludes me from anything Gamine and Romantic, despite the fact that there are elements of both I identify with. But most of the tall types (Dramatic and Natural) also have broad shoulders. I can't tell if my shoulders are tapered, rounded, or even, but they're definitely not broad.

* I'm also very pear-shaped. As far as I can tell, that's not something that Kibbe recognizes. Maybe it's not a big factor for him... but really, do I consider myself slender, or curvy? My pants are 6 sizes bigger than my tops! Yet I don't think I'm large-boned... or am I?? I just don't know.

* My face has some pretty strong features. But are they strong, or sharp, or blunt, or wide, or narrow? I just can't tell. I think my face fits with the Soft Dramatic collage, but the written description doesn't seem to work for the rest of me. All I know is I'm not Classic.

* Kibbe strongly relied on actresses and celebrities from the 1980s and prior for describing his archetypes. They're widely photographed so there's a lot to study, and they also didn't have all the techniques we do now for re-shaping . But NO ONE looks like me. No one has my height, combined with my hips, shoulders, and bust. So I don't get any clues there.

In full disclosure, I'm resistant to the Natural type. The gut feeling I get from those descriptions doesn't feel like me at all. The other descriptions are analytically hard to identify with, but this is emotional.

Pictures! Face from various angles, smiling and not smiling, and profile. (FWIW, I've only ever seen two women who had a stronger Roman nose than I, and I am related to one of them!) Also, pictures in tights and leotard. I took these today. Measurements are 35-28-42, no joke.

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6 years ago

Body Type

31 replies

Latest reply was from ligne

Toban

Veteran

I definitely see romantic for you. I’d ignore the height aspect since so much else fits. I am pretty sure I am soft natural, despite that I am too short based on the guidelines for that type, and the guidelines of that type work well for me. Take what works and fits your style and ignore the rest.

6 years ago

Olen

Active Member

Soft Natural

6 years ago

Anonymous

You have a very dramatic face and a very romantic body. So you can’t categorize yourself in Kibbe very well since the two aspects contradict each other so majorly.

I think overall you are dramatic. I could see you playing a “strong woman” type of character in a movie. Like a Meryl Streep character.

6 years ago

Sal

Veteran

I think you are a Soft Dramatic. This is their description (I found this online but then I realised that the site I found it on was not one I really wanted to promote so I have removed the link) The words are not mine though and in themselves are fine):

bold Yang with a pronounced Yin undercurrent.” The SD bone structure is large and angular, but it is softened by a fleshy body type and full facial features. Sophia Loren (slightly NSFW)is the best example of a Soft Dramatic; the mix of angles and curves present throughout her body create an imposing and stunning visual. More examples: Barbra Streisand, Ava Gardener, Kim Cattrall. In two words SDs are bold and sensual.

I definitely see Ava or Sophia in your face and shape.

When I did mine I came to the conclusion I was a Natural relatively easily (tall (5 ft8), muscular, broader face) but then was a bit stumped as to which one of the three I was. But I considered people I was more similar to and Lady Diana was the one that I have always had comments on - the height, muscular frame, colouring...but I am not especially tall. Someone may see more as a soft natural but I don't feel authentic in particularly soft looks - I like something bigger, bolder, tighter or more tailored...

I don't think you are a Natural or a Classic nor a gamine. You may be in the romantic side but I see your colour preferences and colouring as a bit bolder than that.

6 years ago

Anonymous

Oh I like Sal’s assessment. You’re good at this Sal! Lol!
FWIW, I see:
Straight eyebrows, straight long mouth, angular face shape, angular, long nose. All of this is dramatic.
I see softer round eyes (yin).
Curvy body (but this looks a lot like Sophia Loren). So yes, yin flesh and yang bone structure.

I don’t see much that is blunt or broad, like a natural.

6 years ago

Style Fan

Veteran

I see Soft Dramatic as well. I also see Sophia Loren in your face. I don't know what Kibbe would say about pear-shaped women. He seems to only mention hourglass women. I have watched Aly Art's You Tube video series on Kibbe and found it very useful.
I like the Style Syntax blog. She explains how to work with the Kibbe types very well. I thought I was a Natural for a long time but that was not working for me. Then I had the opportunity to be "typed" by a stylist and found out that I was a Dramatic Classic/Classic. The way she explained how she came to her decision made so much sense and actually was freeing for me.

6 years ago

SarahD8

Veteran

I don’t really get this Kibbe stuff but I think your celebrity doppelgänger is Virginia Woolf (that is VERY much a compliment) so Soft Dramatic sounds right to me.

6 years ago

Runcarla

Veteran

This is a younger actress (43) so likely not featured in the Kibbe stuff. I LOVE Claudie Blakeley. She is in lots of great costume dramas, but is probably best known as Charlotte Lucas from P&P or her role in Gosford Park. There is a bit of a resemblance. I think she is around 5ft 6or7in.

FWIW, I am gobsmacked that you are 5ft 9in. You photograph as 'petite' and delicate or fine boned. You have a gorgeous profile. I'm going to suggest that you fit the 'Romatic' category.

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6 years ago

binkle

Veteran

I don't know anything about Kibbe, but - I do get that the descriptors of Soft Romantic or Dramatic seem to fit you well. You have a stunning profile. I think there's a bit of Laura Dern about you too, though she seems to skew a bit more outdoorsy, and her red carpet choices seem very architectural/modern.

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6 years ago

Ginger

Veteran

It's somehow extremely validating to see y'all's different opinions. I really appreciate all the responses! It's very helpful to get another perspective, especially on something as qualitative as this. I'm studying the information on Seasonal Color for the types that have been suggested; it's at least straight out of the book, so close to his original intent.

Toban, I agree that except for the height (and face) I think I fit Romantic or Theatrical Romantic the closest.

Thanks, Olen! Where do you see the Natural?

smittie, thanks for the seeing the difference in face and body! I very much appreciate the specific analysis. I didn't realize how round my eyes actually are; they go to slits when I smile big, which I do often, but they're not that narrow otherwise.

Sal, you don't know how excited I was to read this! I really didn't want to skew the opinions, but the Soft Dramatic description is the one I'm instinctively drawn to. My own style tends toward bold and striking, with a lot of color, but I always stop short of full-on dramatic. I resist pure black and white, for example. But I love Kibbe's entire statement on SD color, and particularly, "You shine in original color combinations that emphasize bright/dark mixtures." I love those combinations! My recent NAS purchasing was very specifically with those combos in mind. The specific silhouette advice is where SD is weakest for me. Though to be honest, most Kibbe types tend to avoid the fit-and-flare look that's my favorite. Maybe it was 100% out of style at the time he was writing.

Style Fan, I may have to try some of those videos. It's easier for me to read stuff than to watch, but yours is not the first recommendation.
It's so weird how he doesn't mention the pear shape! It's not at all uncommon, and can make dressing well extremely difficult.
I'm glad you found the right type. That feeling of freedom is probably one of the best indicators that you're in the right place.

SarahDB, that's very kind of you! I can see it, too. She was definitely a Dramatic of some kind.

Carla, I can see it! The face is very similar, both front and profile. Romantic (or Theatrical Romantic) is the other major type I'm reading on. I do fit very well physically, apart from height and facial features.

binkle interesting that you would mention Laura Dern. When I first saw her in Star Wars, I got that strange doppelganger type of feeling. Come to realize, that's usually triggered for me from a profile resemblance. In my face, the distance between eyes and mouth is quite long, so when paired with a long/significant nose, there's a lot of similarity.

6 years ago

LaPed

Veteran

Tried not to read the other comments, but couldn't help but skim. Like SarahD8, I immediately see Virginia Woolf in your face! Striking! Definitely a combination of D and R elements, so Soft Dramatic sounds right to me.

Also, re: height, as Runcarla says you don't read as 5'8" at all. There's a delicacy to your bone structure that makes you read a bit more petite -- or just the opposite of lanky. So, again, don't write off Romantic due to height. I think a lot of us fall between categories, and it can be helpful to borrow from adjacent types.

6 years ago

Anonymous

Where is the best place to find the test? I've done a cursory search and come up with a bunch of expired links, reddit rabbit holes, etc.

6 years ago

Ginger

Veteran

The test is text only, here:
https://www.tapatalk.com/group.....onderf-t19

Since sometimes it's hard to tell what the descriptions refer to, someone has put together an illustrated test, here.
https://www.tapatalk.com/group.....the-ki-t13

I think most people have very mixed or not-right results from this, but it can be helpful as a starting point. It helps me most with thinking through particular features and how yin or yang they are.

6 years ago

Ginger

Veteran

La Ped, that's really interesting! I'm actually even taller at 5'9"; people will remark on my height, but mostly because it's kind of inescapable. I'm nearly 6' with even a moderate heel. But honestly, I think it's just my genetics; I'm average or even shorter compared to my extended family. My maternal aunts are my height or taller, and my dad's sister is 6'. (Dad himself is 6'8".) So my "normal" is skewed. I think you and Runcarla are right, I don't have a "tall person" build.

I think you're right, Romantic has potential. I'm planning to analyze Romantic and the two Dramatic blends, Theatrical Romantic and Soft Dramatic, to see what is the best for me.

6 years ago

Gaylene

Veteran

I tend to avoid these “what is my Kibbe type” discussions, because, after reading his actual words, I truly believe that his ideas have been morphed by others into just another prescriptive body typing system. My own thoughts are that Kibbe never suggested a woman take a test, put herself into a category, and then follow a “do and don’t” prescription as to how to dress.

My thoughts are that Kibbe wanted women to understand how certain lines, shapes, and proportions could enhance a woman’s sense of well-being by celebrating her uniqueness as opposed to the more conventional approach of camouflaging and disguising “flaws”. He used film stars of the 40s and 50s, not celebrities, as his images because those stars had very defined images crafted by studios to represent a “type”—girl next door, femme fatale, gamine, sultry seductress, and the like. Once a star had established her image, her hair, makeup, and overall fashion style stayed more or less constant regardless of the role she inhabited. The studio designers always dressed Joan Crawford in strong shoulder line which worked for well on her angular shape while Sophia Loren would be dressed in off-shoulder tops and low, rounded necklines to emphasize her soft, rounded upper torso. At the time, Kibbe felt this consistency in how wardrobes were adjusted for different stars to play up very different types of feminine beauty would make his types clearer for the average reader.

My own suggestion for finding your Kibbe type is to look at the overall feel of each type and to avoid focusing on whether or not you want to dress like a particular star or like the sound of a particular label. Maybe label the types A, B, C... to avoid being caught up in the “Soft Dramatic vs. Gamine/but I really prefer the sound of Natural” trap? Maybe think of having to put on something from a star’s studio wardrobe for a retro costume party—and think about how you’d feel in those clothes. Which would make you feel ridiculous and which could be kind of fun?

Once you’ve eliminated some types as “not me”, then focus on the commonalities of the types which are left. Look at shapes, proportions, and lines of the clothes and imagine wearing them on your body. That’s when another eye can be helpful. Pull out some images and ask a few people how the outfit would look on you. Try on outfits and accessories and use your own sense of how happy you are with the image in the mirror.

Kibbe’s ideas were useful to me because I realized that I could have worn Joan Crawford’s wardrobe if I was transported back to the 40s, but that doesn’t mean I copy her style or even like her acting. But I have a sneaking suspicion that Joan would be raiding my closet if she could have time-travelled to my time and place. She was a Dramatic who would feel perfectly at home in my black and grey, color-blocked, architectural tunic, leggings, and bold jewelry. She would add her own touches of dramatic brows and a bold lip, while my preference would be more restrained, but that’s our uniqueness coming to the forefront. We are not clones, but we are sisters in our style.

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6 years ago

Ginger

Veteran

Gaylene, thank you so much. The more I'm reading, the more I agree with you. I think is what Style Syntax alludes to in some of her posts. It's a tricky concept, because every woman is by definition unique; but in order to be meaningful, commonalities are found and put together into types. Yet now that the type itself is held up as a formula, instead of being a loose, generous, adaptable set of options.

(I haven't found anyone outright condemning the quiz, but I honestly don't see how it can be meaningful. I always find it so confusing, even with pictures, and end up with so many question marks that the results could skew a lot of ways. Maybe that's just my particular set of features, though.)

As I've read the descriptions - and I'm still just skimming, not yet studying - there are things that absolutely leap off the screen. Like the bright/dark color combinations. And there are plenty of things that leave me cold.

Excellent advice to focus on the stars themselves. I LOVE vintage clothes and still do wear it when I have pieces I like. I get what you're saying about mentally trying on outfits. This may actually be a very difficult mental exercise, because I've never been able to experiment with styles. Mainstream fashion really hasn't celebrated the pear shape in 100 years; so many items won't even fit on my body. I think what this means is that I have to separate fit from feel. To take Joan's slinky evening gown as an example, I need to imagine how I would feel in dark, bias cut satin with beading, and big sparkly earrings, although I know for a fact that the cut would badly distort and the side seams would pucker over my hips.

I'm also surprisingly unfamiliar with the style of most old Hollywood stars! But I can work on that. Thank you so much for the words of wisdom.

6 years ago

Anonymous

I would say soft dramatic too most likely, though i also see ethereal in your face-hair which kibbe doesn't have. I prefer the truth is beauty site to straight kibbe. Sometimes kibbe types aren't compatible with coloring as such, so its just not that attunedto our differences. Also having the right combination of color and line is often unavailable at retail.

6 years ago

Sal

Veteran

I do agree with the philosophy of celebrating your own shape, what is authentic to you, colours that either suit you/make you happy/make you feel strong etc... And this is where I also like the Kibbe approach - be yourself and don't try to fit in with others.

The challenges are threefold (for me)
- What if you don't like the styles that are best suited eg you are a voluptuous pale blonde who prefers black - I still think you can take elements and make it work for you rather than against you - but it is more of a challege
- availability and fashion - it can be a challenge to source the items that are unique and suited to you - it is really a long term project. Some years satin might be hard to come by - and for a long time full midi skirts were not really available
- mixing it with your lifestyle/location - Theatrical Romantics might struggle in a manufacturing organisation, and soft naturals in the board room. But you can take a nod to a look to make it work - for example a romantic might wear a floral blouse with jeans and boots to work in manufacturing.

I found the quiz quite unhelpful but as I looked at different sites and read some of Kibbes work, and got a bit of help from the forum, it became clearer.

Some people are really clear - others are not. I don't think it matters to an extent if you get it wrong - you probaby won't get it terribly wrong. I think I could veer into a Classic and still look good (any of the types) but I would struggle to be any of the Romantics , Gamines or a Dramatic (I could make Soft Dramatic work). But I feel most at home in the Flamboyant Natural - is every outfit this way - no. But I am increasingly trying to tweak outfits this way (tan/cognac/caramel tones somewhere, textures, one bold feature, relaxed hair etc - I like black and won't stop wearing it but I am trying to wear coloured accessories with it)

6 years ago

Vix

Veteran

Hi Ginger --

Not what you asked, but what I suggest. [I'm not a Kibbe fan.]

Carla Mathis' Triumph of Individual Style is now available as an e-Book. I feel like this needs a !!!!!!!!!11!!!!!

It's used as a textbook and many stylists use as the foundation for their own color/style concepts.

Even if you don't do all the workbook exercises around your colors and lines it is PACKED FULL of info to help you get where you want to go.

When you buy the $20 trainer guide the ToIS is also included. They send you links for downloading the PDFs after purchase.

https://thestylecore.com/produ.....e-digital/

6 years ago

Magenta fan

Active Member

I see this is an old thread but since I have started to take an interest in Kibbe lately I wanted to comment on this too. I'm not entirely sure about my only type yet, learning about Kibbe has so totally turned upside down how I interpret my own look that I have to process all of it before I can see it clearly I guess, right now i think it's easier to see things in others that I have no pre-existing thoughts about. I always thought I had very severe face because I have a slight underbite and always thought of my face as super long and slighly horselike, but now I'm not sure about those things.
Your type was a very interesting challenge. All kinds of Naturals should be forgotten since your shoulders are delicate and there's nothing wide about your bone structure. I personally don't see as much of a romantic in you as others did except for in your eyes since your nose, chin and cheeks are not rounded and your bust and arms seems delicate. Also the look on face photo number two seems to "belong" more to you, with stronger brows and less details next to it (but strong lip color was great too) So actual romantic seems wrong. Looking shorter than you are is not a Dramatics-characteristic, but being tall and regal is, regal is the best way to describe your face I think (so Duchess Next door is such a perfect style for you!) and when looking only at your face we can see that you should be very tall. I have in mind I have heard somewhere mentioned that Dramatics can be hippy so I think you should belong in that group. Either a soft Dramatic or simply a Dramatic. I guess looking at your hands could be a way to determine, and also trying the most typical styles of dressing (for finding out body type, not to change your style as it sounds awsome as it is).
Well, I'm very new to this so i might get it all wrong, but I really liked trying to apply the principles on an actual example that is not myself.

5 years ago

rachylou

Veteran

I just want to agree that what I liked about Kibbe was the multiple versions of beauty.

What I found great about Kibbe was the detailed analysis of one’s body (moreso than face) and then information about clothing construction and materials. Things fell in place for me when I separated style as in ‘persona’ from style as in ‘physique.’ I think my physique type is Soft Gamine, but I don’t want to be Cute, if you know what I mean.

However, it was such a lot of work to diagnose myself and so much info... I stopped there. I’m completely unqualified to diagnose others and Ginger cannot begin to guess what your Kibbe type is! Lol, I know, I’m no help!

5 years ago

Caro in Oz

Veteran

David Kibbe is commenting in a Facebook page called "Strictly Kibbe". There is a ton of information there & some brilliant exercises. So you can get everything straight from the horse's mouth I agree with Gaylene 100% - most of what is out there on the internet is nothing like his system.

5 years ago

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

I am just skimming this thread - I enjoy Kibbesque talk because it did help open me up to different ways to seeing myself. Nothing beats the Triumph of Individual Style, which I read years ago and profoundly affected my way of seeing things. But have you considered Theatrical Romantic for yourself? I have read that mostly Ds are that, and it does seem to suit you in my (very amateur) opinion.

5 years ago

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Ginger, remember your new word for the year - "Purpose".

5 years ago

Anonymous

I can see TR too, but also some ingenue (I know Kibbe got rid of it). I prefer the truth is beauty site to straight Kibbe since they do blends of 3 style types too-and have ethereal and ingenue.

5 years ago

Ginger

Veteran

Everyone - note that this thread is four months old. I really appreciate the comments! Angie, this was a good discussion and helped me think about things in different ways.

5 years ago

Ginger

Veteran

Magenta fan, thank you for taking the time to respond. I'm reading what you've written and mentally processing it; it's very interesting. Thank you! For what it's worth, my hands are quite long, with rectangular palms and long, slender fingers. My feet, on the other hand, are a little small for my height. They're also fairly slender, on the narrow side of medium width, and high arched.

5 years ago

Lesley

Veteran

Funny to read this thread and process the ways we see ourselves versus how others see us. I like how you conclude with "all I know is I'm not classic," because, and I don't know THE FIRST thing about kibbe (and in fact my spellcheck just auto-corrected it to "kibble", but you look as classic as they come to me! Walk through any renaissance section of any museum and you'll see woman after woman with your coloring and features... if I were you I'd be going for the Greek goddess look all the time! More diadems in 2019!

5 years ago

Ginger

Veteran

Lesley you make me laugh! I guess I can be "classic" in the ancient and Old Masters art sense! Thank you!

5 years ago

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