That is such a good point Suz. Restraint must fit personality.

So many good points on this thread, interesting discussion.

I would like to add that I think restraint demands extra attention on materials (weight, feel, texture). A very melodramatic story may take place in an all-neutral, classic fit and jewell-less outfit if the fibres respond to one another. An image I have in my head would be thin wool camel next to also thin, also wool mushroom gray but with one, discreet detail such as a cable in the knit; and then polished, extremely simple lace-up dandy cognac Oxfords.

This has turned into an academic conversation - So Gaylene :). Great thoughts from all too. Fun

I'm high fiving Zap, Suz, Shevia and Denise on their thoughts - and thanking Tortoise for her kind words.

I also think simplicity and minimalism are characteristic of a restrained outfit, but that a minimal outfit needn't be restrained. High fiving you, Gaylene! My minimal outfits are still bold because I love brights and high contrast. To me they are not restrained, but to another they might be perceived as restrained. Like Garance Dore and the Sartorialist. Or Susie Bubble. Restraint is in the eye of the beholder.

Are muted monochromatic colours more restrained? I guess in most instances they are, but pop them onto Tilda or Gwen and it won't be a restrained outfit because their hair is so fashion forward. It's a package thing - as style always is.

Echoing Suz's comments -- I've always been struck by how much our individual looks and coloring contribute to the impressions we make. Angie can leave off jewelry as her blonde hair and lovely complexion and features are like jewelry in themselves! And when she or Kyle and other blondes have posted outfits wearing all black or black and white there' s an impact and drama that just wouldn't be there for me with my brown hair. I wear colors that are flattering for my coloring but it doesn't have the "wow" factor so I'm content to wear a piece of jewelry or a scarf; and this is even after assuming perfect fit and high quality materials.

Hi Gaylene --

Interesting discussion you've sparked!

I definitely think restrained style is minimalist in color/silhouette/accessories, but minimalist style does not necessarily equal restrained in those categories.

I do dress in a restrained style some of the time -- and love doing so -- but I truthfully I get a bit bored with it.

I'm reminded a lot of the discussions the blogger Passage des Perles has had on her blog re "strict/plus strict" style.

An excerpt of one illustrated-with-photos post:

>Strict is the term I coined a year ago for a spare, refined subset of the minimalist/classic school, characterized by subtlety, quality and perfect fit. To illustrate, I'm using photos from The Sartorialist.

>>It is neither eccentric nor androgenous, like this.

>>And certainly not va-voom, like this. Strict does not apply colour with a broad brush, then tart it up with with a busy necklace.

>>Nor would strict wear leggings and an oversized sweater like GF glimpsed at the right of the shot.

>>A women in strict is not without figure; she is simply not centering her presentation on it.

>>Nor is it tailored, elegant 'jolie madame' clothing, which is more conservative in its classicism."

She then goes on to discuss what she sees as embodying strict:

The hallmarks of strict are here: The mixed texture in one garment (transparent and opaque), restrained use of colour (note the little string bracelets), the fine quality, the interesting yet offhand jewelry (pendant peeking from beneath blouse), the femininity that does not trade on overt sexiness, the undone-looking (but beautifully cut) hair, the minimal makeup. Commenters praised her 'simplicity', 'elegance' and 'effortlessness'.

Link to full post with photos below:

http://passagedesperles.blogsp.....urces.html

Vix -- thank you for this link!

This has been a thought provoking read, definitely enjoyed. I'm a simple dresser and I would perhaps quantify myself as a minimalist. Though I don't consider myself restrained. The act of restraint I believe implies a deliberate decision to withhold. Perhaps in terms of colour, embellishment, number of elements or choice of shape.

For myself, I like outfits with one statement piece, and I am not unwilling to wear something that is very bold. But I keep the rest of the outfit simple. Because I'm drawn to uncomplicated dressing.

Vix, the excerpt you posted is very concise and helpful. Thank you!

(Though, I must say, the rest of the original Passage des Perles post strikes me as very snooty and pretentious in tone-even defensive! I was totally turned off from exploring this blog further. There are less vehement, more approachable ways this blogger could make a point about style preferences.)

Great thread! So many interesting points have been made.

I agree with Suz that personality plays a huge part in any style. And I think Ginkgo is right - some people have natural drama, some are naturally delicate, some are naturally refined. We can either work with our natural persona or against it. Sometimes working against it is fabulous and interesting; some people like that disconnect.

To answer the original question, it does take a certain amount of work, for me at least, because I don't have a natural eye for these things.

Personally, I never feel chic and refined. On me there's always a piece of hair that is sticking up weird, a sleeve that has unrolled itself - you could put me in Armani head to toe and there will be a piece of spinach in my tooth that no one tells me about. I try - oh lord, I try - but I'll never be polished! Keeping a certain amount of restraint in my outfits means I have less things to worry about going wrong!

Kari, PdP definitely has a very authoritative voice and tone. I don't think she loses much sleep over those of us who prefer a less...definitive...approach to matters.

Whoa, Angie, do you really think I'm drawn to academic discussions about fashion? LOL That's like saying you think most horses have legs

But, seriously, thanks to everyone for your thoughts; it's been interesting to read the different interpretations of minimalism, maximalism, and restraint that have been put forward. Obviously, like most fashion concepts, this is a very subjective topic. And, as Angie pointed out, that immediately makes me want to discuss it with the forum. I just want to add a couple of thoughts before we get finished:

First, I just want to say that I definitely DON'T see restrained dressing as anything more than just another style choice. But I can't help thinking that embracing restraint as a style goal in today's fashion climate is challenging choice--it seems to run counter to the "wow" factor so predominant in both minimal and maximal dressing these days. To paraphrase ManidipaM, it's not easy to choose to speak in a whisper when the volume has been turned up all around you.

What continues to fascinate me is how does someone interested in restrained dressing create outfits that can hold their own so the outfit is not perceived as dowdy or boring when our eyes have become accustomed to much bolder looks? The outfit that Krishnidoux suggests really strikes my fancy, much like the real-world outfits that Tara and Jenava chose to showcase. But I can see all of these outfits turning into something much less appealing in less capable hands. That's why I was thinking it's a trickier style goal to embrace. As some of you have suggested maybe this style requires certain physical characteristics, or a higher clothing budget, or a more defined fashion sense, or more confidence putting oneself forward, or a particular personality type. Put another way, is restraint a reasonable style choice for the masses? I'm still musing about this one.

And, Vix, thanks for the link to PdP; I really enjoy reading her blog; she IS quite definite in her opinions, but, then, I am aware that she is not alone in that trait...

Just to be clear, it wasn't PdP's opinions that turned me off and *definitely* isn't any of the ideas expressed in this thread; it's the verbiage PdP chosen to express them in the blog article (referring to a bold necklace "tarting up" an outfit, for example.) I firmly believe there's a way to express a strong opinion, even a negative opinion, and do so without bashing anyone else's taste. And that's actually one of the things I so appreciate about all of you fine ladies at YLF - with Angie, Greg, and Inge setting the tone, I think the rest of us do our best to follow suit about communicating respectfully even if we don't necessarily agree, or if someone's expressed style preference isn't another person's cup of tea. Just wanted to make it clear that I GREATLY appreciate beautifully refined, even "strict", style even if I don't always dress this way myself - it's just that the tone of that article in particular rubs me the wrong way.

Hmm, interesting perspective Kari; I guess I find her language provocative at times, but have always seen it as a deliberate decision to arouse others to respond to her ideas. It might also be a bit of a cultural difference; I'm sometimes taken aback by how blunt some of my European relatives can be when discussing a topic that they are passionate about.

[Xposted with Kari/Gaylene -- Kari, I interpreted your comment the way you intended.]

Gaylene --

Ha -- so true about opinions.

As a blog writer with a tone that's a deliberate choice I have to give props to those who sail forth with a signature verbal style. Everyone has to decide where they fall on the "identifiable-but-potentially-disliked" vs "indistinguishable-from-others-but-goes-down-easy" spectrum....

Veering back to the subject at hand, I'm curious how another blogger --the lovely and luxury brand purchaser MaiTai -- aligns with your view of "Restrained" dressing.

She's been discussed/rec'd on the forum before as a resource for those of us with a love of classical dressing, and her background pieces are definitely restrained.

For you and other YLF members, does her use of carefully chosen (to compliment her outfit and coloring) scarves take her too far from restrained?

Personally I love the drama the scarves add but then again it's why "restrained" is not my sole style choice.

Here's a link to her many Capsule worksheets:

http://www.maitaispicturebook......k%20sheets

Okay, this is very imprecise, but to me MaiTai's style is more refined and cultured, but perhaps a little less restrained or minimal than what we're talking about. Her flair for patterned, textured accessories takes her a little out of the sphere of what I'd consider a very restrained look, but everything is impeccable and carefully chosen. That's just my 2 cents worth, and for the life of me I'm beyond articulating the exact differences at this point!

Guess there's a reason she refers to herself as Duchesse on Passages de Perles! I enjoy her writing style -- it makes me laugh. It would certainly not do if everyone adapted her tone but since as guests we have chosen to enter her salon, we accept her dictates. Besides, she can also be quite self-deprecating at times.

Yeah, it may be that this is just my first introduction to her blog and that it's more tongue-in-cheek than how I'm reading it.

What can I say - YLF has me very spoiled.

Vix, isn't MaiTai absolutely gorgeous?

It's entirely subjective, of course, but I'd have no problems characterizing her as a having a restrained style. The scarves definitely add drama, but I don't see restrained as having to be devoid of color or drama; restraint is not a synonym for dull or boring in my books. To me, MaiTai's look is a good example of ManidipaM's "a whisper that can be heard across a room".

Gaylene, that's a beautiful concept to aspire to. I'm going to tuck those words away the next time I'm going for a restrained-to-me outfit.

Kari --

Life would be very boring if we were all drawn to the same things; no need to apologize for your opinion! [After all, PdP doesn't apologize for hers, ha.]

Gaylene --

MaiTai is indeed gorgeous and to my mind is restrained in that what she presents fall within a very limited range -- "impeccable and carefully chosen," as Kari describes it.

Despite varying rather enormously in terms of appearance and budget I've nevertheless gotten inspiration from her for my more restrained looks. They are some of my personal favorites....

Thanks for this thread. It is such an interesting read.

Vix, thank you for that link. I did not know the blog.

Interesting. MaiTai looks like the embodiment of The Vivienne Files. It's a specific interpretation of Parisian chic. She takes the ubiquitous silk scarf and makes it the focal point or inspiration of the outfit.

I don't see this as restrained, exactly. It is a certain kind of classic. And she is beautiful, and does it very well. Looks like an "old money" look to me (even if she does not have money). Sleek Urban Parisienne Princess, perhaps?

Sorry, but although I think MaiTai looks lovely, I can't help but think her look is more Dowager Queen than any kind of princess!

MaryK - would that be because her look consists in a lot of uniforms? What is the quality that makes it dowager, to you? Do you see this as a restrained style?

I think it's mostly because she lets the money and the super-expensive brands do the talking, and to me that says "old." Although when I go back and look at her photos I think she looks younger than her outifts, if that makes any sense.

And no, I don't see an outfit that says "Look at how much money I spent on these basic pieces" as all that restrained.

Of course, that's probably my middle-class insecurities coming out...

I hear you, Mary. To me, hers is an "old money" look -- or an attempt to look AS IF she is/has old money. I love some of the individual pieces, but there does not seem to be a whole lot of creativity in putting them together. (Looks like Vivienne files). She is a beautiful woman, and looks terrific in what she wears, and I respect and appreciate that she has made these gorgeous scarves her signature. And her style does seem to fit her. Although I agree that in some cases the outfits seem older than she is, on another level they work -- at any rate, they seem consistent with her face shape, her body type, her hair. It is a sort of contemporary Grace Kelly look.

But I agree, it doesn't feel restrained to me, even though she has a few core pieces that she uses again and again and they are mostly neutral. It is SIMPLE and something of a uniform -- but not restrained, to me.

Just chiming back in. I think MT is beautiful & would probably look that way dressed in a sack but I don't find her look interesting or restrained. It's too formulaic & too concerned with "classic" pieces. If we saw an older woman in these clothes I'm not sure how many people would think they were so great. They would be telling her to inject a little modernity maybe?

I think MaiTai's look would fall under PdP's "strict" look. To me, it is a beautiful style, but not one that is easy to imitate--inspire, maybe, but not imitate--unless you had her physical attributes, budget, and confidence.

But it's interesting that we all have such a different idea about what would qualify as "restrained" dressing. To me, restraint does not mean invisible or unexciting or monotone; after all, who would embrace a style with those synonyms. Personally, I think it is a style that most North Americans have a hard time warming up to because it is so different from what we see all around us. Saving up to spend hundreds of dollars on a single scarf is not something that would interest the average North American consumer.

ETA: Can I be presumptuous enough to lump Australia/NZ in my "North American" comment, Caro?

I note that MaiTai doesn't seem to be doing much saving up. She seems to have an inexhaustible supply of Hermes scarves and bags, which honestly I don't find all that interesting. As you say, she's got a particular combination of physical attributes, lifestyle, and budget that lets her live her life in a Grace Kelly Halloween costume and look great doing it. It still makes me twitch and yawn in equal parts.

Oh, I think I could live with an inexhaustible supply of Hermes scarves and bags, MaryK. I think I'd even change my UWQ style goal to Classic Princess if that happened. I'd definitely need a bit of surgery and an increased clothing budget, though.

Who is MaiTai? Does anyone have a linkie?
ETA: Ok, I just noticed Vix's link. I'm off to look!
ETA2: I'm not sure if I'm too inspired but boy, she has her style down pat. I happen have a clear distaste for Hermes. I do see Bunny McDougal from Sex and The City ( Again, ha, can you guys tell I hate Bunny?)