High Five, Mary! There is *nothing* wrong with wanting everybody to think that you look great - and of course, we all do so aren't you a lucky and fabulous fish

What a fascinating thread.

Michelle, what Elizabeth and Angie said is absolutely true. You are an inspiration.

And Elizabeth, you're a brilliant semiotician of fashion!

I think I am similar to Angie in that I do not care whether I am wearing what everybody else is wearing. As long as I am wearing something I love and feel great in, and that allows me to participate in whatever activity I'm engaged in with comfort and ease, it doesn't bother me if I am more (or less) dressed up than others.

But of course I DO care what image I present.

The tricky part is that I don't always know! I am sure that, wearing the same outfit, I come across differently to different people. It all depends on THEIR situation and fashion sense. What looks crisp to me might look uptight to them; what looks arty to me might look boring to them; what looks fun to me might look silly to them, and so on.

In the end I think we have to please ourselves, but it does help to have a community like this one!

I think a lot of times what i feel is frustration. Friends and family members often comment upon what i'm wearing, a lot of times in a mocking tone. Towns people give me frowning looks. It's not going to stop me from wearing what i want but sometimes i just want to...I don't know, shout out snotty comments back? Point out that just because you're wearing what everyone else is doesn't mean you look good? I just sometimes get tired from "defending" myself and i don't feel like i should have to do that when i don't make a habit to attack others personal style choices.

But like i've said before, this is why i L-O-V-E it here! <3 The feedback i get from this forum- the encouraging and amazingly kind comments just makes my day, my week, my month.

The more answers I read, the more I think there's more levels to this question than I had initially understood it.

My first response is very much in line with something I talked about on another thread months ago - that style is in the head. Or, generally, it's all about confidence, knowing yourself and knowing why we wear something (in my case - literally why and how some combinations came about).

That's something I've been thinking about these days again. From the point of checking the reaction of others to know if I got it right - I still say I don't care. Even when my husband is not to keen on something I put together, instead of feeling disappointed, I'm a lot more cool about it - because I feel I know myself better and why I present(ed) myself in a certain way.

I'm aware that my choice of words - presented myself - indicates there is a level of caring about what others think. True. In this week's WIW I've shown the outfit I wore to the parents' meeting at school - deliberately put tougher to present me as someone who'll take things school related seriously. I did want to send that message - yes. But, I return to the "not care" bit - I came up with the best thing I could for the occasion and did not care about whether others really perceived me like that or not - because I did the best I could and felt good about that.

As for appearing on YLF and perceptions by *the others* here - that to me is a different world altogether. In the outside world I'm on my own and have reached levels of dressing confidence thanks to - to a huge extent - caring about what others say here.

To sum it up, I will always care about reactions in the sense that I will dress ocacsion/time/place appropriate, but do not care about reactions to know I got right or wrong. On YLF, I ask for the feedback, so I do care and will care as long as I'm here.

I drive a 42 yr old Volkswagen Beetle, a car that has a reputation for catching fire. If ever I'm approached by someone who asks if that's my car I ALWAYS look to see if it's on fire before anything. It's kinda the same thing with me, my starting point looks and what I wear---I have had many poor (perceived and honest) comments/reactions despite being pretty modest and introverted that I automatically think I'm on fire in a bad way. If and when someone looks at me and I feel conspicuous and ugly where I feel like I should have just stayed home. So yeah--I care what people think. And here's the 'but'--I don't want my kids to have this experience and have been trying to branch out --I've basically faced some of my obstacle people in the skirts I never wore before and the now reddish hair just to have it over with--but I don't know what they think--nothing's said so I can only hope that no news is good news and I got to get over it maybe but that's pretty hard--I'm still knotted up from the trip to Mc Donald's today--can you tell???
Oh and as far as work--I was not liked much at work by the upper echelon. (I was very good at what I did and I know that!) I did not get promotions or bonuses like trips to deliver films abroad like the well dressed chicks on the floor-coordinators and srtists alike. I had a sit down job true but I was not going to be hobbled in my time sensitive job by my clothes. I needed to basically run the distance between three buildings and carry cases of xerox paper and make repairs to said xerox copiers --doing it in good clothes/shoes would have been ridiculous but that was never seen by management. When a new woman came in and dressed in skirts and blouses she was just respected more---I learned what you dressed like in that environment was given more clout and carried the assumption they were doing a better job. I didn't care what management thought--I loved my job and my people and my work--but I sure could have used the respect!
Did I answer the question? Duh?

Patty, you are so funny (part 1 of your reply).

As for not being promoted over well dressed chicks... I think it was not about their clothes, but their general attitude towards business and how they saw themselves in that world - climbing the ladder being reflected in what they wore. The clothes were just a byproduct of networking or skills they had (or a cover for the skills they did not have) in order to get them where they wanted to be. That's my opinion and partly my experience.
If you love your job AND know you're good at it, you're happy just to do it, nothing more nothing less. You enjoy being good at something, no hidden agenda. Which makes you, generally, a minority. No games playing, just doing your job. It doesn't work that way, which I myself also learnt the hard way. But, that's for another thread.

So, I think the bottom line is, most of us care quite a bit about how we look in our clothes, because otherwise why would we be interested in a fashion forum; but on the other hand, many of us don't care too much about conforming to the environmental norm....especially if defying the environmental norm means dressing up a bit compared to those around us. Although it looks like I'm not necessarily in the "dressing up" camp myself.

Angie: you're quite right, it's a cultural thing. It might even be a west coast thing. I've only lived in Vancouver and California, and in both those places, kids don't wear button-downs all that much, with the exception of the relatively few kids whose parents pay for them to attend private school. And even those private school kids are not wearing their kilts and button-downs on the weekends -- they're in jeans and tee shirts, like everyone else. But my English cousins wear them all the time, as part of their school uniforms, and of course nearly all the kids over there have school uniforms, whether their parents pay for their education or not.

Suz: "semiotician" -- I had to look it up. Thanks for the compliment!

Patty: car-on-fire analogy -- hilarious! You crack me up.

Wow, I can count on you all to take a discussion far and deep! I love it!

My original question had more to do with my sequin outfit, but I see that it was not phrased specifically enough. As several have pointed out, there are multiple aspects to this line of thought, such as:

- whom do you dress to please?
- how do current conventions affect your style choices?
- how do you react to negative feedback?
- do you strive to project a particular image?

And many more subtleties that have been raised.

I am revising my answer to say, yes, I care what people think of how I'm dressed, in the sense that I'm pleased to get compliments and take genuine critique seriously. But I do try harder now to dress in what makes ME happy when I don't have a specific audience (such as the court) in mind, no matter how odd or different it makes me look in public.

The underlying assumption is that we all care about what we look like, or we wouldn't be here on this forum, as Angie said. I guess my original question was directed particularly toward others who feel out of step with the norm in their community, and how much those norms affect what they choose to wear. Do we dress to fit in, or to stand out, or as we please?

I am nuts for fashion icon Iris Apfel, and I remember once she said something along the lines of: You have to care a lot and not give a damn, both at the same time. (I'm paraphrasing--I'm sure she said it better!)

I do care about how I'm perceived, but I don't allow my environmental norm to dictate how I should dress. When I'm in the classroom, I want to convey authority. Now that I have tenure and I'm older, I feel like I can loosen up a bit and still be perceived as authoritative. Outside of the classroom, I dress more unconventionally for work, but still professionally. I get stared at sometimes when I'm dressed up and out and about, because I'm tall, but I have learned not to let it bother me...I still wear heels and just go for it!

I love that you wore your sequined skirt during the daytime, for running around town! How thrilling to be able to be yourself and experiment a bit!

Of course I care what other people think. People are going to judge me no matter what. I may as well use my clothes to inform how they judge me, and if I wasn't successful at that, I would be disappointed.

That said, are very few people in the world who can actually make or break an outfit for me. These people are typically those who are close to me and whose style I admire. I have to admit when one of those people told me they weren't a fan of my big soft tunic blouse, I stopped wearing it the way I used to. I still wear it, but in different ways, and less frequently. This is very rare though. Generally, I will consider the opinions of this select group, and most of the time, I will conclude that oh well, I'm wearing it anyway.

OTOH, I just can't take the opinion of someone who isn't particularly stylish themselves seriously. It's like me, a vegetarian, giving someone advice on how to cook a steak.

Well, okay then. To the question as re-phrased:

Do we dress to fit in, or to stand out, or as we please?

At work I do both: I dress to fit in by wearing the expected "uniform" of what I call Business Almost Formal, and also to stand out by doing it more colorfully and fashionably than the norm.

Elsewhere, dress as I please and sometimes I stand out and sometimes I fit right in, which is completely okay with me. And yeah, I always want everybody to think I look great.

ETA: Yes! Team Iris Apfel!

First of all, Michelle, you are awesome.

Alicat, I love that concept -- I think that sums me up! On first reaction, I know that I'm vain enough that I care very much. I have always been self-conscious about my appearance, and I do try to look "my best" whether it's hair style, clothing, or my weight and body size. Even though I have always enjoyed fashion and shopping, I've taken a renewed interest in how I dress my body in the last six months, and of course I want people to see me in a positive light.

On the other hand, I work in two worlds that could care less about how one looks: art and radio. I could throw on sweats and a tee every single day and no one would say boo. In fact, I get comments at the radio station about how dressed up I am. And that's wearing a sundress and wedges. I'm definitely bucking the norm in my environment, and I don't care, because I feel better about myself leaving the house a little overdressed than I would if I blended in and looked more like a slob.

Go Team Apfel! *high fives MaryK*

I care very much what other people think. I dress to please myself, my husband, to set a good example for my children, and other people (such as other parents at my children's school, teachers and friends). I have found that people respond differently to me if I am well turned out, not super dressy, but thoughtfully and fashionably dressed. This was extremely important in the south, in suburbia where other moms wouldn't give me the time of day if I wasn't dressed a certain way. Same with going to stores, salespeople respond so much more respectfully if you are dressed in a way that says you care about how you look.

In the rural Northeast US, it's not nearly a important and sometimes I have to be careful because I don't want to be thought of as "stuck up". I am quiet by nature and have to work hard to make conversation with other parents. In the south, it would be better to be well dressed and thought of as "stuck up" rather than shy. In rural Maine, it's probably better to be thought of as shy than "stuck up". But, I'd really like to be considered confident, polished, organized, youthful and a little fun. I generally do not feel any of those things, so dressing helps me to get there. Turning 40 also threw in the wanting to look more youthful for me and not like I had just given up.