I just wanted to clarify, because I do recognize the role of activity groups and putting together a diverse curriculum based on online resources. I really applaud the effort required to home school, and I wish every parent had the ability to be so involved in their children's education. I also really really understand how different solutions work for different kids and schools and school experiences vary WIDELY. For example I found my freshman year at an ivy league college less academically challenging than my senior year of high school at a public alternative school. My parent's taught me to read and write before I started formal schooling, and I think it probably made a big difference too.

I'm not a parent, so my thoughts about education are more about all the kids, and how the community can raise all the kids, and the schools can better serve all the kids and be better supported in turn by the community.

ETA: rachylou, your school sounds very old skool. Not saying your experience is atypical, because it isn't. It's also something that ed reformers have been working on since the 60's at least with varying degrees of success, The factory model was so cost effective when you suddenly had all these kids flooding into schools for the first time....

I am not a homeschooler...but I play one on tv. LOL . No, I have some friends who do it.

The one thing that is very interesting to me is that they spend about half the time on academia than an actual school day. They don't have to collect papers, have children change seats, or have a classroom that needs to regularly adjust to 20 - 30 children's needs. This really struck me when I volunteered : how little time is actually spent teaching in a six hour day. So that explained why my friends could do a 3 hour day and then spend time going to museums or watching a video or going on Khan academy. I have one friend who spent a month in China with her daughter on a special field trip. They also have home schooling social clubs. And with a shorter academic day, they often meet with other home school kids in the afternoon. Additionally, in our state, every non-academic activity offered by local public schools MUST be open to homeschoolers. So there are home schooled kids that are on soccer teams, drama club, aftershool activities at the school, music, and so on. I should state that my friends give their kids the option to go to middle school and up, only one child out of the ones I know actually picked and stayed in a school.

My friends' guides and curriculum's follow the state's core curriculum. In fact, it is provided by our state. My friends learn as the kids do. And sometimes they don't, but using the curriculum and teaching guides they guide the kids as they have gotten older. None of my friends can do calculus, much more AP calculus, but their kids learned it none the less. There is this great Ted talk about how kids can practically learn by themselves with access to a guide, even nothing but a computer. And the truth is that I do a lot of guidance and teaching and reinforcement at home with my kids. Particularly with my daughter, who hates academics.

http://www.ted.com/talks/sugat.....themselves

My kids go to a public school. It is a great school and my daughter is so incredibly social that she would not do well in an at home situation. My son is on the autism spectrum and though I think he would excel at home, he NEEDS the social aspect so that he can learn from it.

Anyway, so much for minding my own business. : )

rabbit, I don't think integration "took."

rachy, yeah, but then I look at the alternative. Also I think it helps if a school is small and everybody is trying alternative teaching methods and class structures, even if they are a bit artificial. Even if they aren't totally successful, something about the energy of the new invites buy-in sometimes.

My school was diverse and hippy-dippy, but not super cliquey, or at least the cliques were porous (especially with dating). I think mainly because it was tiny, so you ended up tolerating and chatting with each other by default. Also because there were all these lab partners and discussion groups and things. But we were all the same in that our parents had entered us into a lottery to get into the school -- so there was that. The parents all were paying attention.

Whoa! I guess I sort of knew this would start a fire. Lots of interesting comments. I will respond more thoroughly when I get the chance -- but right now I've got to make dinner!

Just to be clear, I'm not attacking homeschoolers. It's true that I think in most (not all) cases, kids are better off in school, but I'm aware that my opinion is based on my own limited experience with homeschooled kids. That's why I was asking the question. I've heard lots about the risks. What are the benefits?

Rachylou, I was never socialized not to ask questions. I think you went to a crappy school!

I also have to chime in on integration. Yes, of course, children divide up, but at least they kids see and hear people of other colors, religions, ethnic groups, hobby preferences. I was told in Texas, earnestly, "Jews aren't white people." (I guess this was important in some way to the speaker.) When people never meet people who aren't exactly like them, they can get strange ideas.

And as far as online courses go, how many questions do kids get to ask
there? Do they come with flesh and blood people to speak to in real
time? I honestly don't know. My parents tried vigorously to teach me math at home and it was an epic
fail. I did much better with teachers with whom there was no emotional
stakes. I can't even imagine homeschooling with mom and dad and never
having an escape hatch. For either party!

But you know what? To all of us parents hoping to raise healthy, happy, well-educated kids, a toast, no matter how we get there!

Did you read the comments following the article? *head spinning*

I was just writing this big long ramble, rabbit, when I realised my thing comes down to this: It's good to be social, but the social *reality* matters. Really, by *reality* I mean the binding fantasy themes. I personally have to say No. I don't accept the social narrative at all. So I can't fault people for walking away. I like a good fight and to test my mettle, but that's not nice of me is it? My presence is not supportive - in school that is. I like it here on YLF

I can attest that for a couple of the kids I know it has been the one on one attention from the educator, the parent. In one case, the child was so advanced that she took her SATS at 13 and was a college freshman by 15!( she commutes ). The advantage for her was that she was never bored and she has access to all the material that she wanted without the confines of regulations or a special education plan.

This is a tough topic because one cannot compare two children to each other and one doesn't know what the alternative result would have been for ONE child.

Personally, I think that if school is not safe, distracting to the child or has poor academics, it is better to homeschool if one can afford it and has the temperament. If it is purely to isolate a child from societal norms ( my friends'
decisions were not based on this ), then it is probably a harmful decision for a child who HAS to function in a society or fail.

I do know that there have been scientific studies that have shown, in aggregate, kids who are homeschooled through high school have a much harder time with post secondary endeavors ; jobs and college.

As for me, if one of my children was relentlessly bullied or the school wasn't meeting their need somehow, I would pull them and homeschool. A private school isn't an option for us for financial reasons. But with my son being on the spectrum and my daughter hating academics, I am so grateful that I have a"team" to help and guide, not just my kids, but me.

Finally, I want to say that I believe it is impossible to teach emotional intelligence or self confidence or resiliency in a familial vacuum. It is like saying that I teach my child how to swim at home while going through the motions in a bath tub. Children are going to be adults and function in the midst of people who don't love them unconditionally or want the best for them at all times. I have learned this with my son. He cannot learn resiliency from being with his family all The time in a microcasm that in no way functions as or reflects the world at large. That is just a fact. And no one is saying that does not happen to all peoples, but to question whether or not this is a down side to homeschooling is absolutely a fair question. And what the author puts forth is worth considering without getting defensive. This isn't about the child's character but rather their preparedness to cope. And that is fair, appropriate and real.

I haven't read the article, and I don't homeschool, but I have a lot of friends who do. I will just say that from what my friends have said, their kids spend a *lot* of time at activities with other kids from the public school. Sports, drama, band—my friend's children participate with the public school kids (and other homeschoolers) in these areas, sometimes during the school day and sometimes after school. So it's not just a field trip but an extended period. In these contexts they will presumably meet kids from all types of different backgrounds.

Many people choose to homeschool because they don't like the social scene at school—drinking, "free sex," etc.—and they want more control over their children's emotional and moral development. I'm sure that the choice to homeschool based on this reason is not limited to devout practicers of religion; many parents, surely even atheistic ones, share the same concerns.

I have a friend who homeschooled her three children for religious reasons. When the oldest one reached high school, he wanted to go to an interdenominational high school in the area. The parents discussed it with him and visited the school with him, and they decided to let him go. He really enjoyed it. The next child in line, however, had no interest in attending such a school and wanted to continue homeschooling. The two boys are of completely different personalities. What worked for one did not work for the other. So there's no one "right" answer.

I will also say that as far as the curriculum goes, when you are not held back in the public schools due to the fact that a large group of kids have to be taught the same thing, you can teach your kid very high-level stuff. Some of my friends who were homeschooled told me that their curriculum was much more difficult than that at the public schools in the area. In fact, they were doing a lot of college-level stuff throughout their high school years. Of course, standardized testing ensures that the kids are performing as required for their age group.

Most of the homeschooled kids I know are the most social people out there, to tell you the truth. I grew up with the canard that homeschooled kids were backward and unsocialized, but my experience is that nothing could be further from the truth.

OK, that's my uninformed opinion! Sorry for not reading the article, AZ...I too am in the middle of preparing supper. :^)

OK, people have taken the time to write very thoughtful, careful answers and I've just read through them way too quickly to do them justice. I'm going to have to come back tonight.

The one thing I can answer quickly: no, Una, I haven't read the comments after the article. But I guess I need to!

You weren't socialised to keep a lid on your questions, IK? Are you sure? How often did you hold up a class and lecture with questions? Are you sure you only infrequently gave way, to allow another classmate to ask their questions?

Also, I'm amused that someone mentioned to you that Jewish people aren't white. Because they aren't. Neither are Italians, Spaniards and the French. Germans are a little dicey - kinda depends on whether they're Catholic.

Also my best friend from fourth grade, from a kosher home, she doesn't know who the Virgin Mary is. And I'm Catholic. We've been friends, what, 30 years?

Identity is powerful. It's part of why I am not on the diversity bandwagon (very popular in the schools around here at least). If we can't have a common identity, well, I don't think that's a good idea.

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Azi. I began to read the article, but stopped, just
happy he/she wasn't ever going to be "educating" my children.
Honestly, the blogger seemed more interested in opinion and controversy than
education. Then I noticed
the byline: “Entertaining, enlightening,
and irritating without the debilitating biases that come with genuine
expertise!” Huh?

We homeschool. . We have no
conspiracy theories behind our decision -- no big political agenda. Until
the end of 4th and 5th grade our kids were part of the public school
system. They had adjusted to the institution. They were at grade level. They were not thriving academically or socially.

I live in Illinois, and our local schools are not doing the
job, partly because the states aren't paying the bills and the pension
obligations of public workers, including teachers, has the state in a financial
morass. At one point, the state owed our tiny district -- with 4 grade
schools, a Jr. High and NO high school. 1.4 million dollars! Half of the children in this Junior high
are required to take summer school to make remediation before high
school. Half.

This is not a disadvantaged suburb.

My children were at school from 8:00 to 3:00, then did
homework until 5. They test (and I do standardized test) higher now than
they ever did in school -- by far, with far fewer “instructional” hours. They have time for music, sports,
crafting, handging out. Now, I
choose curriculum to fit 2 children's needs -- not thousands. I have all
kinds of resources at my disposal, from educational consultants who specialize
in homeschooling to my local district. My local junior college is making
a mint off of enrichment programs that are fantabulous! Of course, some
families who continue through high school enroll their kids in the Jr. college
degree programs for their last year or two of high school.

We support public schools, private schools, and homeschools -- any educational
environment that grows informed, engaged adults. We evaluate our decision
yearly. The Government mandates
that children be educated, but, wisely allows for different manners of
delivering the education. 3.4% percent of children are homeschooled. It’s not a menace. It’s not an option for many. It’s not the best option for many. I’m cool with that, but I want my
children to be lifelong, engaged learners and I’m choosing a route to that
destination.

I have no doubt that you bring energy and wisdom to your classroom. I
must tell you that I was encouraged to home educate by no fewer than 5 teachers
in our community – 3 of these were former students of mine at the University.
I've also had teachers report finding great strengths in homeschooled kids who
find their way into their classrooms, particularly in their follow through and
ability to work independently. Check out this HuffPost article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....tml?page=2

I know all the
homeschool crazy stereotypes -- and I've met some that truly unnerve me.
Fair enough. They’re the Roger Clintons and Billy Carters of
homeschooling. I'd encourage any
classroom teacher to evaluate homeschool families on the basis of their
achievements, much as I do classroom teachers, and much as my department head
evaluates me. I’ll be
sitting with that department head, whose wife homeschools their children
through eight grade,
tomorrow. We’re both on the senior
honors panel for a student homeschooled until she entered college. She’ll go to grad school next
year. She’s amazing, as is her roommate,
a public school graduate who is also presenting. I’ll welcome more students like them in my classes next
year, and I’ll cheer them all on!

*accidental post, I've deleted*

oops, I basically said don't read the comments section.

Sorry about all the "code." I couldn't edit it out!

Rachylou, there are always ways to ask questions and get answers without "holding up" the class, like talking to a teacher after class. If you want to know, you can find out!

I'll admit I don't understand the rest of your post. It's kinda not worth arguing about. I actually think we agree but are differing on semantics.

But I will assure you the person who said Jews weren't white wasn't talking from a place of informed genealogy.

Beth Ann that seems to be a sporadic problem on YLF. You should point it out to Greg. He thought that he had fixed it.

rabbit thanks for the heads up : ). Some people see everything as an attack on moral superiority and their superior character. I am referring to the completely unhinged commentator. Yikes, too late for me. LOL

Rachylou, I went to a school in a very poor neighbor hood....because we were poor. And I was an immigrant with parents who did not speak English and a "retarded" sister. That was a long time ago. But I can tell you that one thing that has not changed between that time and the inner city gang members' teachers I dealt with for 3 years up until 3 years ago, was that every teacher wanted to help. Yes, sometimes ......ok, often, teachers did not entertain questions for long period of times but I can say that practically every teacher offered to continue explaining after school or during lunch or ( in modern times ) over email, or they recommended websites on computers at the libraries......something. I can only think of one teacher, my high school Shakespeare teacher, who I think was either utterly miserable or a bigot, who just would not help me or take my questions. I see it in my kids' school, the two inner city high schools where I have volunteered and my own school experience. I am so sorry that has not been yours.

In the end, I feel strongly that we all need to be invested in our public schools. These kids are going to be in society with our kids. It is not acceptable to me that children be left behind. I can tell you that if it weren't for school, albeit a very struggling imperfect high school, my gang kids would have nowhere to go and be safe. Or get fed. I have a vested interest in these kids. I want them to have an education and see social interactions vastly different from their own. Otherwise, no matter how well educated and resilient and independent my kids are, these young men could make life a hell for my kids and society at large.

OK, I'll pick up where I left off and start some replies. Thanks again to all of you who chimed in with opinions and information!

Rabbit: sounds like you have had quite a mix of experiences when it comes to school! That makes you especially qualified to comment, I think. I agree about your point #2 in particular. The bifurcating education system is a huge problem. EVERYONE deserves quality public education. This goes a long way to explaining the growing homeschooling movement in the U.S.. If the system sucks, it makes homeschooling way more appealing for parents. But for me, here, I don't totally get it. We have pretty good public school systems in the various cities of Greater Vancouver.

Kim: "sotard" is a pretty offensive term, I'll say that! But the (admittedly, relatively few) homeschooled kids I've met kind of fit the description. The fact that you say that your kids "don't fit the stereotype that is out there about homeschooled kids not being able to interact in the 'real' world" means that there is a stereotype. Stereotypes exist for a reason. You are to be commended for doing an excellent job, anyway. Also, YES, I absolutely agree that the public school system fails some children. I wish it were not so. Short answer: we need to put more money into the public system, not put parents in a position where they feel they must take on the huge job of educating their children all by themselves. It really is a big job. Our kids' moral education already rests on us (as it should), but now every parent is expected to be a professional teacher, too? Of every grade? What? That's insane.

TraceyLiz: your son is one of those for whom the benefits of homeschooling outweigh the costs. I did say, up front, that for kids with learning disabilities, homeschooling may well be the better option. However, I wish this were not so. Public schools should be able to handle the needs of ALL children, including the dyslexic ones. If they don't, it's because the government does not put enough money into it.

Also, you are wealthy enough to be home with your kids. You have the time to homeschool. This is not an option for many families. (And he's got someone else to teach him grammar and punctuation, right? *gentle nudge, wink*)

Sydney2: what a cute story about your daughter! thanks for sharing.

MaryK: what straw men? It seemed to me like he was speaking from experience.

TraceyLiz: re. your second post -- yes, some of our social/emotional development happens at home. I would argue that most of our moral development should come from there, too. But the main place you learn how to socialize is at school, with other kids -- and importantly, some of them may not be just like you. Plenty of adult supervision is needed, of course, or you get Lord of the Flies. But just other church kids is not enough. (And, incidentally, my kids' school currently does teach [or at least tries to teach] social problem-solving. They have this new program called Friends for Life. I think it's to help prevent bullying. Who knows if it will work, but there you go).

Rachy: you DEFINITELY had a different system than what we've got here. Our high school classes are 75 minutes long. It's considered terribly bad form to lecture for the whole thing. You do your half-hour lecture, then set up activities (labs, seat work or group work) during which you walk around and try to see to as many kids as possible. Or you have class discussions, or set up debates. Or even do library research. Then you offer after-school support if the kids need it. (Interestingly, the ones who really needed it were never the ones who took me up on it -- I'd have to chase them down and haul them in for extra help).

Will come back and continue comments later!

Thinking back, I realized that some really formative experiences in school were with teachers I vehemently disagreed with, whose politics and viewpoint were the opposite of my parents. I learned a lot from them, both when I ultimately disagreed, and when I ended up with questions and discoveries that moved me away from my dad's viewpoints.

I'm thinking of one history teacher in particular. He was a great teacher, but after a lecture or discussion I'd go home all, 'get a load of what Mr. X said' and my dad would take the other side in the debate and give me something to read by Howard Zinn. I'd write essays and me and Mr. X would have a long drawn out back and forth discussion in the margin with other things I should read and my sources being questioned. It was heady stuff for age 14.

ETA: As a teacher, parents I met who cared deeply about their kid's academic success and well-being were truly wonderful. They were always a big part of the solution rather than the problem. Also I'm not a parent, so I think my views on this whole issue are coming from a different angle.

The benefits are a personalized education that takes into account the child's learning style and unique strengths, weaknesses and interests. Where schools try to teach to all learning styles and end up failing miserably.... I should have listened in my first meeting with school officials when I described my concerns and the Vice Principal told me that it sounded like I had a verbal learner and that he had to be honest with me and inform me that they are behind the eight ball when it comes to verbal learners....

My son is over the moon that he gets to soar through math at his own speed and skip a reteach of items he mastered already, moving on to a test to be sure he indeed did so. Instant scoring on his tests lets him get excited to keep going...In school he was left bored and" playing games in his mind" to tune out the teacher who was "overteaching it"(his impression) , but was really teaching more so to include the level of all students.

So many kids get to college these days without having mastered good writing skills and they all have writing centers on campus to help students with assignments... My verbal learner struggled with writing, barely writing 4 sentences in school. At home with me doing homework where he spoke it and I scribed it, he succeeded trmendously. Now with homeschooling we've taken in up a notcht with Dragon software speaks complex sentences and doesn't need me to scribe.

The school wanted to put this child in core, not advanced classes due to a "reading disability" ,which we CURED with intense phonetic awareness program geared to 3rd graders to adults and brought him to grade level in two years! While the school was guilty , on one hand saying he would basically fix the reading deficit himself due to his intelligence , and on the other hand suggesting the honor roll student go into core classes for middle school, that didn't match his intelligence level. They even wanted to put him in core Math and Science when this child scored the highest of anyone in his grade level at that school in the statewide testing. Middle school would have been a nightmare!!!!

My son loved Geography class and took 3 high school classes ahead of schedule this year... With the Geography we got to go deeper and find other sources to really appeal to his interest level in this subject.

Next year i am going to add a speed reading class to his curriculum to really make reading as strong as possible, to further boost his skills and self esteem from the chaos the schooling caused. I can't wait to see his sucess and the pride that will come with it...

I never saw myself as a homeschooling mother, but have to say I am all for it now and love when I hear my child say, if my wife wants to homeschool, I am going to support it....

I am so lucky to have had the support of those around me to take on this new venture. Whenever i meet parents and tell them I homeschool, they get wistful looks on their faces and say they wish they could do the same.... I've even had several ask if I could homeschool their child...

I just caution anyone who hasn't walked this path not to be strong in judgements against something they don't really understand... I know that it use to be that religion was the main reason to homeschool, but that no longer applies and more and more are being drawn to it as our schools face challenges of only worrying about whether a student could pass the test and not really caring about the child as an individual. Nobody was more surprised than myself that after getting two children to college through public school and another in high school that I would take this option.... I am just grateful that I live in a country that allows this and lets me make this most important choice for my child.

So many colleges accept homeschooled children these days and not just Community colleges but great Universities... There is always opposition to those who don't follow the normal path, yet there are many ways to get good results. While the fear may be lack of socialization, i have to say that I have yet to meet a homeschooled child who is lacking in that area... In fact these kids look you in the eye and carry themselves with great confidence. I met many homeschooled children prior to making my choice and was always impressed whether they homeschooled for religious reasons or like me to counter the failure of the school system.

Typos and more casual writing on blogs does not at all indicate my true strengths in Grammar and Punctuation... I assure you this is actually a place where I am very strong! My nickname in high school was " The Human Dictionary" and my writing led to me receiving the highest score ever received by my English teach for my final exam.

Saying that school is the main place where you learn to socialize is not accurate. It's just the place where most kids in our country traditionally do so, but that doesn't mean it's the only way, or for that matter , a better way...
I repeat that my daughter heading to a Master's at Boston College, scoffs at the idea that public school is a good place for socialization...I think she is right as she says, " How much time do you really think we got to talk to each other?" By the way her 3 brothers all agree when she declares this.

I think that the bigger problem here is that tradition of " this is the way it's been done," is assuming that it's the way that works better and should be done... I seriously challenge that notion . As I get more into the homeschooling environment and see the amazing results, I know that not to be true...

I do not and never have home schooled my son but I have a deep respect and admiration for those who do.  I think for some kids home schooling may be the best option. For others it's not.  The reason for home schooling can be so varied as is indicated by some of the comments above and by friends we have who do choose to home school.  My son is a single child and he attends an excellent private school that I believe meets his needs in a wholistic sense addressing both his education and his personal development. As a single child I do find that attending school provides opportunities for social development that a home school situation may not.  The school reflects the values that we teach at home and my son's teachers take the time to understand their pupils personalities and learning styles and respond accordingly.  Not everyone has access to to a good education system.  I have never actually considered home schooling because I know that I don't have what it takes.  Im pretty sure Master 11 and I would end up playing xbox and watching tv as I just don't think I have the capacity for the level of self discipline and focus home schooling requires.  But my hat is of to those of you who do.  The children I know who have been, or are being, home schooled are fine young people traveling well in the world.

Well a couple of things. Of course you can ask questions and individuals can find a way. But by and large, it doesn't happen to accommodate the masses of children in the schools and not to a sufficient degree.

California is also a very big state population wise and we are at the bottom for education. For instance, I think it's slightly to compare ourselves to Sweden, which we do. We have to amass such great resources. People talk economies of scale but the sheer scale can overwhelm.

Lastly, yes. 40 min classes. Dd spent a lot of time watching Pochantas in school. That's what she did. You wouldn't believe.

Deborah -- actually that's a good point. I also admire parents who can do a good job of homeschooling. It sounds difficult! I still think it's a sad state of affairs that the public system fails students in such a way that parents feel they need to take their kids' education into their own hands.

TraceyLiz -- I hope I didn't sound hostile. It's hard to come off as neutral when you're discussing two sides of a deeply important issue like our children's education. It sounds like your son is much better for having been homeschooled. Certainly school wasn't working for him (and an administrator even warned you about it!). It's a crying shame that the education system is not equipped to educate all students. We pay taxes to ensure that ALL our children get a good education. What about children with similar learning needs to your son, whose parents cannot afford to homeschool? Or what about children with single mothers? Lots of kids living in poverty have learning disabilities. The system fails them profoundly. How are they supposed to escape poverty without a decent education?

As for drawing attention to your grammar, I wasn't trying to be unkind -- this is a fashion forum, not an English language one, and I've grown accustomed to the idiosyncrasies of your writing style. But it was useful to make my point, which is this: we are not all experts in everything. Typos and a casual writing style are not the same as systematic errors. You say you can write well if you so choose. Maybe you can*. If you can also teach how to write well, then a good English instructor you will make. If not, somebody else should be teaching it to your kids.

(Heck,there are an awful lot of subjects I feel unqualified to teach -- and this "teaching it as you go along" is not ideal. I've done it -- i.e. I've had to teach classes where I was only a chapter ahead of the kids -- and I KNOW I was providing a less than stellar education in that area).

*ETA: Better yet, show me that you can.

Isabel -- you're totally right! A lot of the time that kids are in school, they're not actually doing any academic learning. There's a lot of "down time". It's not ideal. If we're just talking about gaining academic knowledge, then a good tutor can get a single student through the same amount of material in the fraction of the time that a teacher with 30 kids could. And it would be highly personalized instruction. If the kid doesn't get something specific, you spend more time on that; if they find something easy, you fly through it.

But classroom settings can be even better than a tutor. Ideally, you want a group that's big enough that you can generate a good discussion, but not so big that the teacher can't meet everyone's needs individually. Research indicates that this magic number is around twelve to sixteen kids, if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure that twelve is the minimum. Plus, in the halls and during the non-lecture portion of the class, they get the invaluable experience of interacting in a natural way with their peers. Organized activities don't work that way.

Rabbit, what you said about "all the parents paying attention" was important. That's so, so helpful for a good education and well-adjusted kids, no matter what kind of school they go to.

Ironkurtin: "I also have to chime in on integration. Yes, of course, children divide up, but at least they kids see and hear people of other colors, religions, ethnic groups, hobby preferences." I completely agree with you. It's so important. Our world is small. I don't see any other option but to try to work together, and you're not going to be able to if you don't get a lot of exposure to other cultures. Instead, you get fear, which lead to hate, which leads to suffering...oh wait, no, that's Star Wars. I mean, fear leads to stupid shit like terrorism.

Gigi, "Many people choose to homeschool because they don't like the social scene at school—drinking, "free sex," etc.—and they want more control over their children's emotional and moral development. I'm sure that the choice to homeschool based on this reason is not limited to devout practicers of religion; many parents, surely even atheistic ones, share the same concerns." Really? I think teaching kids how to deal with peer pressure regarding drinking and sex (because honestly, do any of us encourage those things in our teenagers? I hope not) is a lot easier if they are actually exposed to those things in school. A kid has to be tested in order to learn how to say no. If not, they behave like drunken idiots in college (OK, well, some kids go crazy in freshman year at college no matter what you do) or else they get married to the wrong person at the age of 21 because they're so horny they can't see straight.

I'm not talking no parental supervision here, by the way. And I'm not saying kids won't make mistakes. But they generally won't be really unfixable mistakes, and it will help build character (as so many dads are fond of saying).

Read the rest of the blog. It's now defunct (this article dates to 2008). Mr. Gorman had a book published in 2013.

"We call them “Sotards”. It’s short for Socially Retarded. This isn’t a
knock on the mentally retarded. It uses the term "retarded" in its
literal sense; to be slowed or impeded in growth. Just as the socially
adept weren’t born that way,
sotards aren’t born; they’re made. Those
who choose to homeschool their children need to make that decision
conscious of the fact that they may be raising the next generation of
sotards, and that they were the ones responsible for retarding their
children’s development.
"

Aziraphale, as a former music therapist working with the
disabled, and as the mother of a gifted special-needs son who had an IEP
in the public school he attended, the use of a perjorative term like
this is the same thing as using the "n" word, or bullying a gay or
transgendered youth. There are "stereotypes" of these groups, too. It is not OK. It is not speech worthy or acceptable in
an educator. Could it be that people homeschool kids with social delays because they're bullied (as my son was) or mocked and
maligned by their teachers (as my son wasn't, thank God)? Maybe we're
saving the Sotards from teachers like Mr. Gorman. Perhaps he really believes this, perhaps he was just pushing buttons to boost SEO for his blog. I hope he's changed his tune.

Beth Ann -- agreed, that term is almost ridiculously offensive. I said so earlier in response to Kim, I think. I agreed with most of the points the guy made, though. As it happens, I kind of disagree with that last comment, not simply because I think the term "sotard" is harsh (I mean, who's he kidding? We can all tell that it's a play on "retard", which is a cruel, derogatory and socially unacceptable term), but because I think that some socially inept people ARE born, not made. But they can be made, too.

I'm also not saying that all homeschooled kids are going to be socially inept. But I do think it's harder to provide appropriate social experiences if they're homeschooled. Not impossible, obviously. From what you all are saying, some homeschooled kids turn out really well adjusted. I imagine it helps if you've got a whole community of homeschoolers and a bunch of programs set up to accommodate them. That might work. But the kind of homeschooling that involves most days home with mom plus a few field trips/hanging out with a handful of neighbours -- that isn't going to do it.

But setting up a whole system to support homeschooled kids brings me back to the growing divide in the education system. We need ALL the kids to be well educated, not just the ones who can afford a better education than the one the government currently provides. It's one of the most important things our taxes are for. You're basically paying to educate all the province's (or state's) kids, and yet the education system is sufficiently inadequate that you're having to educate your own kids yourself, and you're not trained for it. SOMETHING is going wrong!

Uh, yeah. We had to take social living (sex ed) three times. The sum of the message was sex is entertainment and pregnancy is a disease and the reason to have sex is because you *love* someone. Marriage was for better or forget it. My last sex ed teacher hated us, because by then my class, at least, had had enough of that nonsense. You do your duty end of story. A jaded lot.

Oops, Beth Ann, I just realized I missed your earlier reply. I have a really hard time when each response is so long (and this is clearly a topic that provokes a lot of passionate discussion! Which come to think of it, is good. Few things are as important as education). The problem is, I have to keep scrolling through to check what I've replied to. I keep to tabs open but I still get confused.

What?! Rachylou, where did you go to school? No wonder you're jaded.

Pregnancy may not actually be a disease, but I still say that it feels like malaria...lol