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Get Your Money's Worth

Greenjeans

Veteran

Like Nordstrom, LLBean is known for its generous returns policy, so generous that the radio show, This American Life, featured it in its "Get Your Money's Worth" episode in July. The story is fascinating. If you've ever wondered about generous returns policies, how they're possibly worth it to retailers (in the digital age, they may not be) and how sales associates emotionally cope with unreasonable returns, it's all in there . . .

Shopping

22 replies

Latest reply was from Beth Ann

JAileen

Veteran

I heard the story. Some people were definitely taking advantage of the policy by any reasonable person's standard, yet the people who worked in returns weren't allowed to make any judgemental remarks. I'd have a hard time with that (not being judgemental).

BTW, we saw Ira Glass last year and really enjoyed him. His dog Piney was was one of the most interesting stories I've heard.

Anna

Many years ago I worked at Talbots. At the time they had a policy that if you didn't feel the clothing had worn well you could bring it back. We had a regular customer that would bring in huge cardboard boxes of her old clothes. Some of the items were years old and you could tell they had been worn/washed or cleaned many, many times. Her reason for return? They didn't wear as well as she thought they should have. She felt they were faded or pilled or they Had stretched out too much.
So,whatever manager was at the store at the time would pull out these clothes and try to match them up,to old records in loose leaf notebooks. ( this was before computers) many of the items were YEARS old. The manger would find the item what it was on sale for and then have to figure out how many days the woman had owned them approximately and give her that as a refund. In many cases the refund for the item was a dollar. Then the woman would argue and say that she should get the full price that she had paid for it. She always had all her receipts. And every time the manager would explain that some of these items were many years old and the policy did not extend to that.
Eventually she would except the amount and go away until next time . She never got a large amount of money back but I witnessed her doing this several times while I worked there. I came to dread seeing her come through the door with the large cardboard box always about an hour before we closed. And of course we couldn't leave until all of her transactions were done. We all felt she was hoping that we wanted to go home and would just give in and give her the money. But the manager never did.

Alexandra

(website)

Veteran

What a great story! I love L.L.Bean - their stuff holds up for years and years. Much longer than one would expect for the price. It would never occur to me to return something after years of use/wear. But I did know about their guarantee and have wondered if people ever abuse it. Sad to learn the answer is yes.

Greenjeans

Veteran

Oh, Anna, that sounds difficult. I think LLBean implemented it's no-judgement policy to protect workers from getting emotionally tied-up in returns. Not sure that would have helped in this situation though.

Piney! (Isn't that just the best name for a dog?) Anyway, I hear you, JAileen. It takes a special kind of person to do that job.

Yes, I hear that, too, Alexandra. Same here.

Firecracker (Sharan)

Veteran

Wow. Interesting story. I could not do that job (work the returns desk at LLBean).

always trying

Veteran

Anyone old enough to remember, not too many years ago, Nordstroms rack was said to take back any merchandise, even if it was not originally from them, like Target merchandise or such. I remember stopping in a Nordstroms Rack once then and finding a lot of actually awful stuff.

Anonymous

Years ago, there was a woman in our church who would wear clothing to services with the tags still attached, and then return them for refunds. My mom and I were appalled.

Greenjeans

Veteran

We're so used to seeing corporations really go for it greed wise: moving overseas to avoid paying local taxes, making airline seats tinier and tinier and so on . . . I do see some of the extreme returns people are pointing out as the flip side of that behavior. ("It's a corporation. Who cares?")

I also see the people who run operations like LLBean and Nordstrom as the exception, wanting their particular brand, the place where they work, to stand for something more than just bottom line profit. I don't know, maybe I'm being naive . . . but I do like that these places and policies exist even though I don't make full use of them and hope we'll be able to keep them.

Anonymous

I saw a family return, worn, everything from a large wedding to a JC Penny's store years ago. I couldn't believe they took bsck everything...bridal gown, bridesmaid and flower girls complete outfits including shoes, same for the guys, outfits that parents wore, you name it, including underwear and wedding night negligee! The transaction took a couple of hours. They kept coming up with more stuff to return. It is a wonder that retail stores allow returns at all.

Anonymous

It's amazing, isn't it? I rarely return anything. I don't understand taking advantage of a store's return policy like that. In my book, that is stealing.

One return I made, that I will never forget, was a leather belt that had a slit in it. I simply didn't notice the defect until I got home with it. I promptly returned it at the local Dillard's store, and was accused of doing that damage myself, with a knife. I took my store credit card out of my purse, asked for a pair of scissors, and cut up the card right there in front of the woman. I haven't shopped there again, and that happened over 30 years ago.

Traci

Veteran

I think of generous return policies like 24 hour store hours. It's a business decision that looked at on the small scale makes no business sense (do they even make enough sales in the grocery store at 2am to pay the staff for that hour?) but in the bigger sense these things make us, as customers, feel safe that we'll be taken care of. Carefree customers spend money. Folks who worry about pulling up to a closed store stay home. If I'm counting days on a calendar to decide if I can get the return done in the window of time allowed I'm more likely to decide to just not bother.

I feel like Nordstrom wants me to be carefree and open my wallet and so I'm not going to stress about whether my returns are taking advantage. For what it's worth, I've never returned anything other than new with tags merchandise, but I have returned things that had gone on sale after I bought them, so I guess technically that was a loss. I guess it's crummy that some people push it to the extreme, but such is life.

Anonymous

All of my returns have had tags attached, but were never worn with tags attached before returning. See my previous post about a church member who did that.

Unfortunately, policies come about after people abuse something. Obviously, the return policy was being abused or they wouldn't have a need to change it. Sad!

Gigi

Veteran

I try not to take advantage of generous return policies. I have returned worn things to Nordstrom's, however, if over the first handful of wears they started pinching or creeping up or whatever to the point where I couldn't wear them. I try to be as sure as possible when I buy that the stuff fits right, but sometimes after washing, the garment shrinks just enough to cause a problem. I figure that I pay full price at Nordstrom for the privilege of being able to return items when this happens. And I would not return an item that fell apart after two years of normal use, since that is normal wear and tear.

Sal

Veteran

Here return policies are less generous. Online we have 14 days normally- in store often only for store credit, sometimes cash in larger shops. I can recall making two queries for clothing on quality issues, both to local boutiques. One swapped my cardigan, the other refused to help.

I love This American Life and will listen!

Anonymous

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, and the other episodes that were part of the same show.

It really goes to show that there is a sliding scale to morality.

To me, it is morally wrong to return items that are used just to get your money back, but at the same time, the fact that the store says it's OK certainly makes it *less* morally wrong.

Then you have the store who is allowing itself to be taken advantage of. Is this correct? I personally feel that it is NOT ok, both to yourself and to the person whom you're allowing to take advantage of you. On a business level, though, I guess LL Bean is finding that it works for them.

There is the other issue of having return policies that are too strict. That is also morally wrong, I feel, because all the power is now in the merchant's hands.

I suppose that power imbalance is the key issue: If you let either side have too much power, I feel there's is a moral dilema. Things should be fair and equal to both. And fairness is different depending on the circumstances of each party.

Like for example, a relaxed return policy might be fairest for a large retailer. A more stringent one might be fairer for a small boutique.

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

I remember hearing about a couple of climbers who financed their overseas climbing trips by buying knock-off gear in China & then returning it to REI in the United States. I think they even bragged about it in their book.
It because of things like that REI stopped their forever return window & limited it to a year. In the past I remember seeing very worn hiking boots in their garage sales.
ETA it was a online post
http://www.outsideonline.com/1.....tober-2012

UmmLila (Lisa)

Veteran

I had an LL Bean backpack that I carried my large and heavy law school textbooks in. The zipper broke after my second year of law school. LL Bean provided me with a new backpack when I sent them the old one. That is the only return I have ever felt bad about making. But, it made me a dedicated LL Bean shopper (did you know that they re-sole their boots for a fee?)

Thistle

Veteran

I try really had not to take advantage of return policies.

But I shop at LLBean because of theirs.

I once bought an expensive-ish sateen sheet set from them. It was supposed to be satiny soft. Sateen, right? It wasn't. So I washed it. Several times. Still not soft.

But they took it back.

Because I could trust them, I bought a set of percale sheets instead. When those were excellent, I bought two more sets.

I would've never bought the percale sheets if they hadn't allowed me to return the sateen.

Gail

Veteran

I only return items unworn with the tags on or if the item has worn very poorly after a couple of washes. I know people that take horrible advantage of return policies and quite frankly it makes me cringe.

Greenjeans

Veteran

Thanks, everyone, who commented on this thread. All your stories interested me.

Smittie, I'm not certain I would use the word moral here because it's the stores that set the policies, but I do love how your comment addresses power and, I think, boundaries. I want stores to have policies that allow me to shop worry-free (I'm big on online shopping) but that also don't invite abuse. I don't want to have to worry that the stores I shop at are going to go out of business or need to drastically re-jigger their policies because over-generous returns have become a problem

For now, LLBean seems OK with their policy although some people abuse it. For those who didn't listen to the story - people have returned things to LLBean for store credit that they thrifted or got on ebay for the purpose of returning them. This has happened often enough that LLBean has asked thrift stores to please draw a black x on their label to ID the item as thrifted, burdening thrift store workers in the process. (It shouldn't be up to thrift store workers to protect LLBean from their own policy.) Interestingly, LLBean also has a reputation among Mainers for having become expensive. Tradeoffs . . .

quack445

Interesting

Beth Ann

Veteran

I heard this segment and found it quite engaging. I come away thinking, "Please don't ruin a good thing for the rest of us!" Truly, I wonder if the anonymity in shopping isn't helping fuel this behavior. If people were returning at a counter staffed with neighbors and former high school classmates, would they be so bold?

I will often bring two items home to make a final decision on size or color, knowing I will return one. I always return the items within a week, with receipt and tags attached. Since I shop for my whole family, my returns can be substantial. I hope this courtesy continues to be extended to me and I know I intend to teach my kids to respect store merchandise and policies.