Itari, you are too kind.
I do think that with my increased muscle mass, my body shape is changing, even if it's just the silhouette. My thighs are still thicker, but I have broader shoulders and pecs now.
And Angie, one of the things I really appreciate about you is how accepting you are of all body types - and really, all individual bodies. This blog and forum has a place for everyone. I can definitely say without hesitation that YLF has helped me love my body.
And what a feat that was.

Oh Angie, I know exactly what you're talking about. And ironically enough it was on a thread where I was weighing the pros and cons of surgery. I mentioned I was accepting of EVERYTHING ELSE but my massive bosom. I am at peace with my bum, and even though I don't love the occasional tummy bits, I can live with them. But I am never, ever going to "embrace" my bust as long as it is over a D cup.

In reality, my boobs are the only thing that make me especially curvy. Other than that, I do not have a very defined waist or curvy hips, so going down in size would probably change my overall shape quite a bit.

Ele, please remember that there is nothing scientific about this sort of body type analysis. One study that actually measured women's bodies purported that only 8% of women are an hourglass. Even that study might have had variables that led to inaccuracies. I don't always agree with the body type analysis done here, but that's probably because some people fit their types only slightly while others are strongly stereotypical of a type. I suspect I also have a stricter definition of the various types in mind.

I have a sister who always gets frustrated with body typing systems because her body doesn't fit any type. Her shoulders are broader than her hips and she has a large bust, but her waist is extremely tiny and defined and her hips, while narrowish, still have curves and are ten inches larger around than her waist. She's neither hourglass nor inverted triangle and starts to feel freakish even though her body type is enviable.

The measuring tape makes me certain I'm an hourglass, but that doesn't mean I haven't envied pears their dainty upper bodies. Some of the styles I would love to wear, like demure but feminine button-down blouses are impossible to fit on my hourglass frame and would lose their effect when worn on a curvy torso anyway.

I don't love my body type, but I think that I am past hating it now. I have a large bust...now that I'm nursing, a really large bust that is not proportional with the rest of my frame. (Maya used to be my body twin...but I've gotten bigger, especially in my bust.) I used to think about a reduction because I don't like the attention that I get even when I'm wearing modest clothes, but I don't know anymore. First, I might shrink when I'm done nursing, but even if I don't, I'm starting to become better at dressing my body for what it is now.

Here's the weird thing about me, and I hope this doesn't sound vain or too strange. I actually love my body as it is - I like the way I look without clothes. It's just clothing that makes me feel self-conscious because it's so hard to find things that fit properly and are flattering.

I do share queenie's problem finding summer dresses because anything that adds volume is bad news, and most casual dresses do add volume in some way (via pleats or gathering).

Sarah, I think it's common to change body shape from pear to hourglass. As your muscle mass increases, the fat percentage decreases and that's the reason (probably, I'm no expert). Anyway, I think that you look more like a hourglass and less like a pear.

Hmm, I think that there are two different ways to develop a pear-shaped body. The first is having hip girdle wider than shoulder girdle (and that is something we cannot change), while the second is storing fat around hips and thighs, which is an effect of estrogens. This means that 1st type pears are pears no matter how thin they are, but 2nd type pears can become hourglasses or rectangles when they lose weight. Does it make sense?

Malcontent - I've seen the study, but I believe it's different from YLF shapes. The study, if I'm not mistaken, takes only bust, waist and hips circumference into account, while YLF is more about shoulders vs. hips.

Christine, FWIW, I was wrong about my size anyway. I have been resized as a 28G at Intimacy. 32 was way too big. In fact one of the bras I had altered to a 28 is STILL too big. I'm going to need another inch taken off. Crazy, I know, but my back/ribage is really not much bigger than my waist.

I have also lost a bit of weight but my bust hasn't budged, so I look even more disproportionate :\ Hopefully it will shrink with time. But I think we still have the same overall shape.

I don't HATE my body or anything like that. There are plenty of things I like, and I know I could have it a lot worse than I do.

all have things we don't like about ourselves and mine happens to be my bust.

Ele, I sympathize. When I was told I was an apple (secondary body type), I used to see new member post pictures here, who had significantly larger midsections than I did being called straight-on pears or hourglasses, and I would always wonder why I was an apple and they were not. Totally irrational and inconsequential yet it bugged me.

The way I look at body type is all about proportion. As I understand it, even the very slender Audrey Hepburn was an hourglass because her hips/bust, though still very small, were significantly larger than her waist. So, a lady who measures 32-28-35, for example, would be more apple-shaped than a woman who measured 42-30-42, who would be more hourglass, even if her waist is larger. Shoulders add another dimension to all this, of course. Hourglass doesn't mean tiny waist so much as it means proportionally small waist. If the waist is small and the hips are also small, the silhouette seems less hourglass. But unless the body type hews closely to one of the archetypes, there will be some subjectivity to interpretation.

I personally don't associate pear-shapes with being overweight, since I've known many slender pears. I think it's unlikely for a strongly-defined pear shape to shift to an hourglass because the skeletal structure of the shoulders and ribcage will remain narrow in proportion to the structure of the hips. Even if the hips and thighs are slimmed down, weight would likely be lost in the upper body as well, keeping the silhouette similar. It's very hard to spot reduce. The easiest place for most women to lose inches is the waistline, because visceral fat is more metabolically active.

Malcontent, I didn't imply that pears are overweight. They can be slender, but their hips and thighs are visually bigger. I don't agree that body shape doesn't change. Weight loss and excercise can change the silhouette, especially when gaining muscle mass.

BTW, is this the study you wrote about?
http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/bodyshape.gif

That's it, Itari.

I agree Mal. That's why I disagreed with Angie's assessment of herself being "boyish." It is about proportion.

But I don't think I was less of an hourglass than some of the newbies I mentioned. I have never had a very large tummy. Sure I have some squishiness going on, but so do a lot of people who get nailed as hourglasses and even pears. Mine is rarely visible in clothes. Anything I wear would have to be really ill-fitting to emphasize my tum (like a dress I showed Angie a few weeks ago). It wasn't any more visible or pronounced on my body is what I am saying. Being labeled that way really made me preoccupied with it, and sort of gave me a bit of body dysmorphia for a while. I looked at certain pictures of women who had more visible stomachs than I did, and I thought well if I'm an apple and they are not, my stomach must be HUUUUUGE.

Hmm... I sort of agree with both of you, Mal/Itari. I get what you're saying about the "two types" of pears, but I disagree that weight loss is very likely to change that "second" type. I mean, of course it CAN, but a good number of pears who store fat in the hips/thighs will *always* store fat there, because that's just the way they're made. I'm fit, a runner and weight-lifter and I will probably always be heavier there. It really doesn't matter how much weight I lose- I've been very thin in the past, but was still pear-like.

Anne, I hate that expression too! It's so mean You're right, I think we're similar in shape, though you probably have slightly wider (straighter?) shoulders than I do. But we're both more X types that 8, I think.

Maya, I'm glad someone understands. You're right, it really is irrational.

Angie, I really hope my post didn't come off as "body-bashing". That's not really what I meant at all- I've made peace with my shape, and agree that there's little sense in us all just complaining about our "bad bits" all the time. I guess I'm just sort of neutral now, not hating but not yet loving

On a more positive note, I am happy that most of the styles I gravitate to do work on my body. The dresses that Angie featured on the blog today, for instance- right up my alley. I do feel slightly less able to really "rock" tailoring, though.

Ele, you're right that most women don't really change their proportions when losing weight, but it's not impossible. I've been on diet for 9 weeks and my shape has changed a little bit. Despite being a pear, I've lost more on bottom than on top.

My dear Maya, your body type analyses are becoming overly detailed and that's not good. You have to see the wood for the trees.

Ele, thanks for chiming back in. Good to hear you're not bashing up your body.

Please, please, please everyone - do not get obsessed with body type labeling. It leads to unhappiness. I have mentioned this many, many times. Dressing is art and not science so strive to become a style grad student. Many of you already are! Concentrate on making the art work - do not worry about the scientific experiment failing.

Angie - of course, but at the very beginning it's much easier when you have a clear set of guidelines. I know I'm not objective when trying to look at my body and clothes. I can recognize something that is terribly wrong, but I need a starting point.

Precisely, itari. That's why I'm refreshing the guidelines in 2010. Most people need a starting point - that's all. But if they wish to follow the guidelines alone and not venture out further, that's fine too.

I read this post yesterday Khris but felt unable to comment. It makes me so sad that so many women of the forum have negative body image. Khris your body does appear to be morphing once more, you have beautifully strong shoulders and increasingly slimmer legs if these are the body parts you wish to highlight then kudos to you.

I'm also in between body types, 1 part hourglass to 1 part rectangle, but I'm also quite gangly limbed which creates the illusion of further straightening my curves. I like to use the rectangle guidelines but sometimes dip into the hourglass tips. It's fun do able to choose how you want to present your body today. You are certainly more than being a bust - waist - hip ratio Khris. I see your style as playful tomboy but you also rock ladylike with an edge equally as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing your style (and body) evolve further.

I think I have legitimate questions though I realize there is no way to ask or answer them without bring rude, which is precisely why I don't do it. Body type is indeed an art and art is subjective. I do not think I am an apple and in retrospect wonder if I ever really was.

I think it is very hard for anyone who fits into the ideal categories Ele mentioned, who never really struggles with issues of proportion and fit and size, to understand what life is like on the other side. It's just too personal. I have been at both sides and when I was skinnier and more proportionate, I can't say I really understood what most women go through and struggle with. I knew about the issues they had, but I couldn't get inside their minds and hearts and understand how it affected them. It is something I had to experience for myself.

Julie (and others): I think it's a mistake to think it's a body image issue exclusively. That is not really what this discussion was about. We were discussing personality types before and it's worth a reminder that I am very introverted and I do not feel comfortable having my body ogled and gawked at. Part of that also has to do with me being a feminist and being deeply averse to using my body or having it used, intentionally or unintentionally. I know some women feel "powerful" when they feel sexy and attract attention, but it makes me feel weak and out of control, personally. I do not have the personality to carry off such a provocative body shape, and while I do find ways around it, it goes without saying that it is an uphill battle and goes against a lot of the rules. So thank goodness I found YLF, otherwise I wouldn't know how to break the rules at all.

We were gone all day at the amusement park yesterday, so I am just getting back to reading this.
So much stuff going on here!
Maya- I felt like you did, where it isn't so much a body image issue as personality. I am pretty accepting of my body (at least the clothed version) right now- I just have an image that I want to project that isn't as in line with it.
It's funny- I have been asking my husband what he thinks of my outfits the last few days, just to see what he likes more or less. The other day, I had on a sleeveless dress that emphasized my curves and he was really ambivalent to it. Yesterday, I had on that olive green drop waist tunic, and he liked that. I guess he and I like similar things after all.
Thanks so much to everyone for the input on this thread.

Just to add another slant even super skinny people struggle with clothing, my best shopping buddy is a super skinny UK size 6-8 rectangle and we both frequently come out empty handed she has many fit issues too x

Over 60+ years I've gone from stick straight skinny to a pear with curvy hips to an apple after 40 and, now that I've lost weight and my hips are flat, to a rectangle. Most of my life I've had body image problems because of such a small bust. I envied those with cleavage. Now I'm just happy for a reasonably healthy body and try to make the best of it and try not to look like a little old man. Life is too short.

So many great comments above, but Malcontent really captured the grass-is-greener thing for me with this comment:

>part of me feels as if that narrow-hipped, barely-breasted form would be so much easier to carry, because the sexuality of it is more subtle, able to be subdued when necessary. With my shape, the only way to subdue my sexuality is to dress like a frump.

So true!

At heart I see myself as androgynous, so it was never really a goal of mine to dress in a feminine and/or revealing manner. I didn't care if other women did, it just wasn't my bag. And despite my lack of hips, I apparently never gave/give off the "boyish" vibe even when swimming in lots of volume. That still irritates me!

These days I usually dress in line with guidelines for my body type, modifying as I see fit, because I personally find it more pleasing when I do. As a Rectangle that means dressing *against* type...dressing to look less rectangular.

I don't get the perks many R's do anyway...no Cameron Diaz here! Instead I'm bustier (high necks worn solo = BTDT), short-legged (long leg line only in heels, no ankle straps), have a muscular lower half with a tendency towards the dread saddlebags (dark colors on bottom, look best in monochromatic or tonal shades from undefined waist to toes).

Deciding to wear form-fitting clothes that make the most of what I do have---and garnering more attention along the way from everybody, not just men---was a difficult decision. But it actually made me less self-conscious about my body. Go figure!

[And I still see myself as androgynous...I just think of the clothes as camouflage, ha.]