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Ever apologizing for looking fab?

Katerina

Veteran

Three months ago, I joined YLF. I love being here, reading, chatting and looking at all fabulous WIWs. It feels truly great to meet people who love style and fashion as much as I do. I do have some wonderful friends In real life, but unfortunately, none of them is particularly interested in fashion. They say they are, but in fact they are not. I love them anyway, we just talk about other things

Here, fashion, style, wardrobe and outfits are important. And nobody apologizes for caring about style. It is a rather new experience for me. Where I come from, it is more complicated. Recently, I watched an interview on TV with a film critic. It was about a TV show. She said : “excuse me for being shallow, but what I like is that the characters have beautiful clothes”. What a strange thing to say. But not uncommon. People dress nicely, some look fabulous. But they do not talk about it. Complimenting outfits is not very common. I love giving compliments if somebody has a lovely outfit. The recipients usually look happy and then they often start explaining - “the blouse was on sale - really reduced” or “my husband gave me this bag - I would never buy such an extravagant piece myself” or “oh, this is nothing special, an old H&M” and so on. Why is it so hard to say thank you, I like it too...

As much as I believe that we should not apologize for looking fabulous, for investing in great wardrobes and for caring about style and fashion, I unfortunately also find myself kind of apologizing, or at least explaining from time to time (not too seldom actually). When someone comments my many scarves - I could hear me saying ”oh, I am a bit crazy about scarves...I know”. Instead I could say - ”yes, I have a large collection, I love my scarves”.

Why do we need to apologize or explain ourselves when it comes to beautiful clothes? Have you noticed women doing it too? Is it a cultural issue? Do you recognise this fenomenen? And what is your opinion?

General

70 replies

Latest reply was from Amy Isabella

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Katerina, I have SO much to say about this subject, since it's my line of work, and hear unique perspectives from clients and friends - and you'll hear my view as a fashion professional. In the meantime I will leave you with a quote from Oscar Wilde:

“It is only shallow people who do not judge by appearances. The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible....”

Mary Beth (formerly LBD)

(website)

Veteran

YES, I do see this. In fact, I catch my own self doing this sometimes.

I agree with what you're saying - there should be no need to apologize for looking fabulous - and I also believe there should be no need to apologize for not looking fab....because there is another side of this coin.

I see where American women who are in the public eye, are constantly dissected for their appearance, and not for what they actually say, do, accomplish. A female politician, academician, or television analyst, for example - there is always so much commentary on what the woman is wearing, and how she looks, etc., while her male counterpart is generally left alone about his appearance, and the focus is more on what he is saying, or doing, or has already accomplished.

I think that's why we see apologizing, because people are starting to understand that there is this huge divide that judges women almost exclusively on appearance, and men on their intellectual/athletic/ financial/business/everything-else accomplishments.

I don't know if this is the case for women in other countries.

I think we (Americans) should borrow a page from our European counterparts, who simply acknowledge a compliment gracefully, and move on with the conversation

The Cat

Veteran

Katerina, interesting observations. And some of your experiences are similar to mine. It's possibly a cultural issue. I live in Scandinavia, and when people here get compliments for items they wear--like "What a nice/beautiful/gorgeous dress/blouse/sweater!"--in around 90 percent of the cases, they will reply "Oh, it's an old thing--I've had it for ... years", or "it was a sales bargain, the price was reduced to ...", or "it belonged to my mother/sister/daughter/friend, but she didn't use it, so she gave it to me." I find this a little strange when in fact nobody asked if the item was new, or how must it did cost, or where it came from.

Like you, I don't see why people should apologize for looking good. I wish more people would simply accept compliments, like you suggest.

Katerina

Veteran

Thank you Angie, it is a great guote,

La Belle - it is interesting what you are saying, Although I am not sure it is quite the same here in Sweden. I perceive it more similar between sexes. Often people do not want to stick out or show of. And If they do, even in a good way, they do not feel comfortable abou it. And yet - Swedish people are beautiful people and they usually dress very chic and trendy. They obviously put an effort in creating their outfits, getting great hairstyles etc. So why is it so difficult to embrace the fabulous?

jussie

Veteran

I just did this same strange behavior this morning! I was dropping my children at school, and two Mum friends and I were chatting and they complimented my clothes and I immediately said “I’m working later today..... I would have just worn excercise clothes this morning but mine are all stained and crappy......” like I needed to provide some kind of explanation for being dressed nicely. Crazy! Why didn’t I just say “thank you!”.

Katerina

Veteran

The Cat, sorry, cross posting. I live in Sweden and I have the same experience as you do and agree with you completely.

Katerina

Veteran

Yeah, Jussie, I know! Why are we doing this???

jussie

Veteran

We must stop it immediately!

Katerina

Veteran

Jussie, you are right! No more apologetic explaining.

Anonymous

To answer your questions: yes, I've lived it my entire life, and always redirect the conversation when it happens to me. I grew up in a family of academics and athletes, and it wasn't considered interesting or important - you had to have something else going for you to back that up - which I didn’t feel like I had among that crew . I dress the way I do for several reasons, but hate having to explain it.

Mainelady

Veteran

Great question. This happened to me today. Every time I have needed to go to the vet’s office I have had on weekend wear and been bringing in one of our dogs. Today I just needed to pop in to pick up more medication for Alaska. When I walked in, the vet tech said, “Wow, are you dressed up today!” I replied, “ I came straight from work.” Why did I need to explain being dressed up at the vet? I should have just said, “Thank you.”
I few years ago I was sought out by central office and asked to apply for a slightly different leadership position within the district. A school board member told me that I would be an asset to any of our schools, but he said he didn’t think I would fit in at that particular school. When I asked why, he told me that the staff there dressed much more casually (ok, he actually said sloppy). He said my attire might intimidate some. Hmmm could that be true? I had not ever considered that. My teaching credentials, accomplishments, experience and reputation should be what mattered, right? Not my wardrobe. That man made comments that he never should have. He insulted an entire school staff (who should also be judged by their teaching skills ) and then seemed surprised when I withdrew my application. That man needed to be educated, but I took my talents elsewhere.

Cee

Veteran

Only when I wear my sparkly gold boots and cape !

Katerina

Veteran

LisaP, thank you for sharing this, very interesting.

Mainelady - what a story about the leadership position you were applying for. A sad story actually. People like him keep walls between people and not building bridges.

Last week, I had a lunch with a colleague from another firm. We chatted loosely and touched upon style. She asked what I thought of hers and I replied that her style is lovely, arty with great use of colour. Not a typical tax adviser style She said that my style is rather strict, typical attorney, and that people might perceive me as reserved and not so approachable. Felt a bit awkward. She said I dress too perfect. I don’t mind. I am who I am, not changing and not apologizing - although my gut reaction was to start explaining why I dress as I do. I did not though.

Katerina

Veteran

What do you mean, Cee? Do you mean that you start explaining ourself when you wear these? Why?

Anonymous

I imagine there can be cultural reasons for that type of deflection but it seems more pervasive now than before.

Ironically, I think that type of self effacing apology is kind of self absorbed and detracts from the compliment, while also making the other person feel uncomfortable or like they did something wrong.

I generally default to "Oh thank you!" with sometimes a "That is so nice of you to say!".

Cee

Veteran

No... Just me !

Katerina

Veteran

Isabel, that is a very good point!

Anonymous

It seems we are all living in the same alternate universe or a version of the old twilight zone show (If you know the show you too are dating yourselves ladies I also have the same issues. Friends are just not into fashion - it is so frustrating when we meet for lunch and the group starts making comments about my being dressed so nice and some actually accuse me of trying to make them look bad. I want to say "No! You look bad all by yourself! I have on dress slacks, a blouse, a blazer, a scarf and a brooch-really! It does not take effort to just try and be presentable" -- but I apologize... then I hear the Pink song- Perfect- in a loop in my head - when she sings - "why do I do that"! Women age 45 and up where I live just don't care anymore- it is like they have given up. They go out in public in PJs, torn sweats, filthy shirts etc That is why I also joined this group! It is just so refreshing to feel NORMAL!
I remember hearing someone on TV talk about why she always looked nice- this was her response: "One day I was walking down the street and everyone I saw was dressed horribly. Then I turned the corner and saw my reflection in a store window- I realized I looked no better than the horribly dressed people walking by me. From that day on I decided that I would give other people something nice to look at". That comment really stuck with me.
Oh and Katerina- it is high time us "scarf girls" just roll our eyes and walk away from anyone making comments about our scarf collection! Because YOU LOOK FABULOUS !!!
And thanks for the post so I could vent!!

SW Ann

Veteran

I dress well because I feel my best when I do. I mostly don't feel a need to explain myself if someone comments on my clothing. I've practiced, and I just say "thank you"....that is usually enough.

The Cat

Veteran

Katerina, I like your suggestion to what you could anwer when someone comments your many scarves. (End of your paragraph 3.) Planning how to respond to others' comments is a good idea. For instance, next time someone says "Oh, you are so dressed up!", we could simply say "Yes, and it feels so great."

UmmLila (Lisa)

Veteran

Learning to simply say “thank you,” to such remarks is a habit one can learn.

Around the same time as I tried adopting this, I also decided not to use the word “just” in emails or conversations — e.g., “I was just asking when you plan to send me the ...”

I’ve been better at the latter.

I think it’s too easy to feel that matters of self presentation are shallow and should thus be justified in some manner, but nothing can be farther from the truth.

Windchime

Veteran

What an interesting thread! I used to be quick to mention that an item was at deep discount, when I received outfit compliments. I’m better now at simply smiling and saying, “thank you.”

I need to ponder ANGIE’S Oscar Wilde quote.

So good that MAINELADY withdrew her application from the job where the man made such an outrageous comment. He was so ignorant and out of line!

And KATERINA, your outfits bring pleasure to all who are fortunate enough to see them! If you feel comfortable in them, there’s no need to change them for the people around you.

madeline

Veteran

I work in an academic setting and 99% of my department is female. I give outfit compliments freely and I receive compliments daily from one or the other of my colleagues. I usually reply "thanks! Getting dressed is the best part of my day!"...this is probably 75% true but it always makes people smile.
I love clothes, always have. And it is so great to have you all to talk about style, fashion and looking great. Thanks for being here.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Katerina, I'm a little jet lagged so I'll keep it short.

First, FWIW, I think you have a very playful and professional style. It's chic, dressy, polished, trendy, modern retro, businesslike, AND fun. Your scarves and accessories add a lot of verve and vitality to your stricter items. You strike a beautiful balance that is interesting and sophisticated. And your business pieces are by no means boring and conservative. If I saw you walking in the street, I'd compliment your look and want to chat with you. There. 100% approachable.

Isabel makes a very good point. Cultural differences play a role. To some extent, modesty and a socialized sense to self deprecate can cause us to apologize for being dressed well. In other cultures, it's a sign of wealth and an enviable status symbol. A first world problem.

I nodded along with every word UmmLila wrote. Eloquent and succinct. Learn to say, "thank you".

I hear it often from clients - "I don't want to look too dressed up", in fear of being judged negatively. Yet they desperately want to dress up in fear of being judged negatively. IRONIC.

I've never been made to feel that I'm too dressed up, given my line of work. People expect me to look a certain way - even when I take dogs to the vet. The flip side to that - as a client recently pointed out - is that I am always "on show". I hadn't thought about that way, but I guess I am.

Ladies. Please. No more apologizing for looking fabulous!

Anonymous

Don’t apologize! I won’t either.
It’s Hard to get out of the habit, but I think it’s healthy just to say, “thank you”.

Another thing I’m doing around the workplace is just talking to women about clothes and making an effort and just letting my own interest in fashion show more. I feel a lot better about myself actually, when I let people into my “frivolous” world of handbags and shoes

I think women really like clothes (well, a lot of us do!) and we should own it.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Katerina, you always look amazing! Fun, smart, professional, but professional with verve and humour and and I would just echo what Angie said. If I saw you on the street I would think, WOW, that woman knows how to dress herself and look what a great time she is having with that.

LisaP's comment about growing up with athletes and academics made me think a bit because those are two groups who -- to outsiders -- can seem a bit intimidating. They seem to have some inside knowledge (how do those weights work anyway? what's a "rep"?... what the heck does Jacque Deleuze have to do with any of this...?) and that inside knowledge can make them seem forbidding to outsiders even when they are the nicest people alive.

For some people, fashion is like that -- it seems like an arcane mystery that takes incredible work, luck, connections or something to learn. If you're stylish, you are therefore a bit threatening. Just as anyone who is expert at anything can be (to someone who is not expert and feels, obscurely, that she "should be" is threatening.)

I think that's the systemic part -- women being enculturated to think this is something we "should" just magically "get" without any training or effort and if we don't it's because it wasn't meant to be. We don't have the fashion "gene" and can never get it. Or women feeling shut out of fashion because they think you need to be thin, or rich, or especially savvy. It leads to invidious comparisons.

There are also class issues. People imagine that you can't look stylish without a lot of money. So if you focus on style you must be rich and possibly mis-using your money. Instead of offering to the poor you are "wasting" it on self-adornment. Or they imagine, as Angie suggested, that to care about how one appears is the sign of a superficial and shallow character. There are so many value judgements hidden in all of this.

Meanwhile, women are also taught to be self-deprecating. Try as I might, I find that a hard habit to break. Especially when in conversation with someone I sense is awkward about their own appearance, or someone who feels at a loss when it comes to putting an outfit together.

Anyway, I'm working on this -- the straightforward thank you, without the "oh, this old thing?" exclamation.

There are times, though, when that exclamation is perfectly appropriate. When I'm talking to one of my few real-life fashion friends, that's when I crow about the great deal or amazing sale or the super generous gift. Those are the friends who really want to know!

rachylou

Veteran

I love Angie’s Oscar Wilde quote. I too have many thoughts and observations on the matter.

I feel this was a more common occurrence in my world when I was younger. I also feel there was a ‘Just Say Thank You’ campaign in the 90s and I stopped hearing the Obvious apologies (but I could be delusional about this).

...But you know, in my own small world I’m an outlier with the nature of my interest. My peeps can be pretty (humourously) savage about fashion and being fashionable. Aesthetics are a constant concern, yet there are pretty definitive boundaries. My set aren’t as mean as when as I was a child - they have yielded to the times to a great extent - but still. I’m aware I’m the ‘fluffy cousin.’ I get a lot of ‘What is that?’ and ‘Oh No, you can’t do that’ ... and then rip roaring times are had by all when I get compliments in public ... Because Fluffy Cousin is The Authority after all ... I don’t apologise, but that doesn’t mean a battle isn’t still being waged...

Anyways, ‘being too fancy’ is definitely a thing. Being too fancy and too loud and not serious enough.

And one last thing, people WILL mug you for your shoes, so there is that...

Staysfit

Veteran

I think our tendency to apologize may also come from the use of fashion as social currency. It’s a way to hold a conversation with someone with whom you may not otherwise be talking. It helps establish a power differential between two people or it serves as an equalizer. Women frequently start social relationships with comments about appearance, and then move on from there. Men are not frequently known to comment on each other’s clothes. There is quite a bit written about all this in feminist literature. I am not an expert, but I have read about it.

One more thing I would add to this. We can change how our clothing looks, and we can improve our grooming if it needs to be improved, but I will never look like a 30 year old super model as much as I try. Unless you are a super model, neither will you (sorry to disappoint you). Many of us have some image of what we are supposed to look like and act like that is based in fantasy and our apology comes from not living up to our own standards, or to that of someone else’s, and also from being caught up in pursuing the fantasy rather than staying attached to the reality of the here and now.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

This is a topic that I have thought about a lot. Why are women apologizing for dressing with thought and/or following fashion? Other hobbies and interests are not treated with such disdain - following sports, something I have never understood, is considered perfectly acceptable in most circles. Collecting paintings, or stamps, or dolls is ok. I fail to see why any of these are a more socially acceptable use of time and energy.
I do think there is a strong element of sexism and also vanityism involved. As if taking care of your appearance is a woman's thing that immediately devalues it.
Regardless of the above, I am not great at taking compliments. Much improved, but still guard against downplaying myself. Principle is easier than practice, at least for me.

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