Dressing to show respect? - YouLookFab Forum

Category

General

About: Style Beliefs, Values and Personality

Welcome! Read about what to wear and how to wear it on the YLF Blog. Join the YLF Forum to ask specific questions or just chat about fashion and personal style. Or check out the curated list of things we love in YLF Finds.

Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

Dressing to show respect?

Jenni NZ

Veteran

Angie’s post came out on Monday, one day after I attended my father-in-law’s 90th birthday dinner at his home. And while the post was really interesting and has brought out some deep thinking from several of you, I don’t feel the need myself to dig that deep about my own style. However, one point made did really resonate. I was brought up, like Angie, to show respect to a person by dressing up for events. I noticed that Helena ( Torontogirl) and Bijou said the same, which I think fits with what I have seen of their styles.
And I was musing anyway before I went to the party which had 24 people including FIL (90 that day) and MIL ( 84). I was remembering *his* FIL’s 90th in 1998 (so that’s MIL’s father, who died when he was 93). My children were 7,4 and 1.5 at the time, and I deliberately dressed them up, the 2 girls in pretty dresses and the wee boy aged 1.5 in a smart-looking top and shorts. And at the time I was horrified how down-market my SIL dressed her 4 children of similar ages. And that same SIL on Sunday night wore Crocs on her feet! She did wear a quite nice top and pants. I was wearing the pretty cobalt dress and sandals I had worn to my own daughter’s wedding.
In the intervening years I have given up a lot of beliefs I was brought up with, but it seems can’t let go of that one. But I’m afraid I am also something of a snob. Not always. I felt happy in what I wore but was also one of only about 4 more dressed-up women. My own daughter aged 27 wore a pretty top with jeans which she made look very nice and appropriate. Thoughts?

General

67 replies

Latest reply was from MsMary

JAileen

Veteran

I agree with you. I would rather over dress than under dress, whether for a wedding, a funeral, or birthday. It shows I thought about this event and I think it’s important.

Anonymous

I'm right there with you, and know I can be a snob about such things. Mind you, I'm only a snob to those who don't believe it's "necessary" to show such signs of respect. For example , I get dressed up to host Christmas dinner in my own home, even if no one else does anymore. All of my female friends are like I am in this regar so I know I'm not out there on my own oblivious island , and I am choosing to lead by example for my daughter. *shrug emoji here*. I have high expectation of everyone so am usually disappointed - ha - but I figure I have the same expectations of myself, so......?

I too could not bring myself to do the deep dive into my own values/beliefs/personality as it relates to my personal style. Nothing good came from reading all of those posts yesterday - I should have paid attention to my own inner trigger warning.

rachylou

Veteran

It’s interesting. I was not brought up to show respect through dress. I was brought up with rules about what to wear when. About What is Done and What is Not Done. The only notion bordering on ‘respect through dress’ that I have is - you only wear a short red dress to a funeral to dance on the grave of someone who did you wrong. It was really all about class and position - and the rules were Not To Be Applied to those who were not in a position to fulfill them. And sometime around the millennium they were abandoned for being ‘stupid,’ lol. We used to dress for dinner, my family. Like something out of Brideshead Revisited. 100 years past its prime, right up into the 90s. You know, like if it’s not white tie, it’s practically a free for all...

Helena

Veteran

Jenny, I am sort of between here and there on this ... I have always been one to dress in a way which I perceive as respectful and inclined to exactly the thought you've expressed ... however, there is a definite generational component to this, which I am sandwiched on. For example, I've never seen my Dad without a collared shirt on, and he has never in his life put jeans on, and I remember my Mom used to get so mad at me when I would wear dressy pants rather than a skirt. Meanwhile, I couldn't understand what was so offensive about dressy pants; it seemed patently ridiculous to me! We had many a bicker about this.

On the other hand, I used to always make my kids wear a collared shirt or dressy shirt and non-trackpants to visit their grandparents, but now that they are older I've given up, because to their way of thinking, there is no correlation between dressing and respect. And they feel me imposing my opinion about it is disrespectful! Or, for example, my niece was appalled when I suggested tank tops weren't appropriate for school - whereas to me this is just common sense, to her ears, that is hopelessly old-fashioned at best and misogynistic at worst.

So all that to say, I'm with you for myself, but, given there's no harm done when people wear x over y, I tend to try to suspend my opinion on others

Irina

Veteran

I feel the same, Jenni. I found it surprising how casually people dressed for occasions like birthdays or weddings, especially men. My own style is not too dressy but I always make an effort and wear either a silk top or formal trousers and a nice pair of shoes when attending a celebration or a social gathering. But I also put on smart casual clothes when seeing a doctor or other professionals.

rachylou

Veteran

Here’s a tidbit... so the thing about waiting for the hostess to start eating... that was déclassé. The only woman you wait for is the Queen. Otherwise, it was déclassé to wait. Yes.

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

I have wrestled with this a bit, because I was brought up in a household that dressed for church each Sunday, which meant I always had appropriate, dressy outfits and shoes in my closet growing up. I know that's not the case for everyone, anymore. Times changes, and most of us don't have formal hats and gloves (or sheer nylons!) in our wardrobes these days, either.

I think showing respect for me, these days, means dressing to the expectations of the host/venue, and in a way that doesn't make the people I'm trying to "respect" uncomfortable. So...if the opera company says, "We welcome all. Please dress in a way that makes you comfortable," I would probably still dress up, but wouldn't find it disrespectful if someone else didn't.

If I'm attending a party that requests cocktail attire, I wear a dress and heels, but also understand when there are challenges. For example, my husband used to work for a tech startup with a lot of young, just-out-of-college software engineers. Their holiday party dress code was "cocktail attire," and most people showed up in something approaching that, but many didn't. Young programmers don't, as a rule, have a lot of use for suits and ties, so you'd see people in jeans and a nice shirt or maybe something business casual with sneakers. Occasionally, someone would just ignore the request entirely, but I always felt I'd rather people show up and have fun than be stymied by clothing expectations.

By the same token, when I'm hosting an event, I try to make the dress expectations clear, just to avoid radically different interpretations of appropriateness. ie: "We're cooking outside, so it'll be super-casual," or "We're hosting New Year's Eve, and I thought it would be fun to dress up this year. Bring the glitz and glam!"

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

This sister-in-law is your father-in-law’s daughter? She has her own relationship with him. I hear your concerns, but am very much of a “stay in your lane” mind on this one.

Like Rachylou, I was certainly raised with expectations of what was worn when and where. Some of that is what I’m working to break through by, for example, pairing a floral Trina Turk silk dress with metallic western-influenced boots, a lace body stocking, and a long-sleeved T-Shirt.

I do remember the first time I heard the idea of dressing to show respect, phrased in that way; it was the architect boyfriend, upset I was running to the grocery in jeans cut-off to Bermuda length. I do think it’s important to show respect to everyone we interact with, from the stockers to the manager at the grocery store, just as to people above us elsewhere. But for me, much more genuine signs of respect are pausing to listen to what they say without interruption, looking them in /near the eye appropriately, being calm and clear in what I say, and behaving in a considered/considerate manner.

It is. very popular in the US to force kids to apologize for transgressions, even if they grunt “sorry” through gritted teeth and continue to behave defiantly. I refused to do that. Instead, I worked with my son after the fact to make sure he understood what the issue was and come up with better ways to deal with it in the future. He often apologized of his own accord at that point. I find the sincere apology much more respectful (and much more likely to reduce future incidents). Others disagree with me. I can say that over the years, I have received many compliments on my son’s behavior and in recent years he has showed remarkable composure in some very difficult situations. People’s responses to me tell me they appreciate how I interact with them as well. Really, respect is within a person; mandating ways to show it all but guarantees the action is hollow.

Sorry to disagree. No disrespect is intended, of course.

cat2

Veteran

I am in a determinedly casual part of the U.S. I am not a snob, I am very happy we live in more of a meritocracy than most of the country, but I do think the Noted Cookbook Author dining at a tiny Michelin starred restaurant with us could have done us all a favor by ditching the fleece and asking his companion to ditch the leggings. We were there to celebrate our 20th, the chef had adapted the menu for us, and yoga was not part of the evening.

nemosmom

Veteran

I remember when we used to get dressed up just to get on an airplane... It was "a thing" when I was young... Anyway...

We attended my niece's bat mitzvah a few years ago - cocktail attire was mentioned on the RSVP. When we got there, one male friend of my niece was wearing khakis and a polo/golf shirt that clearly did not fit.

One of my SIL's was APPALLED that this boy would dare show up in such casual attire! And she was not shy in voicing her opinion. Well, a few weeks later my niece's mom told me that the boy's father had passed away months earlier and the family had fallen on really hard times as a result. The boy had borrowed clothes from a family friend just so he would have something more elevated than his own track pants to wear.

Not saying that is the case with your SIL, but I guess you never know a person's reason for wearing what they wear.

Minaminu

Veteran

Growing up, I remember It was a must to dress up for a special occasion and even certain colours had a specific allocation... Black was only used for funerals or formal events and even nowdays I am using it sparingly. At that time, I used to think that it was very old fashioned but I have come around to appreciate it.

I don't know if this is because I am getting older, but I believe there is still the time and place to dress with respect to the occasion and environment. It is easier to dress down an outfit than to dress it up!

Jenni NZ

Veteran

Hi FashIntern, my SIL is actually also a daughter-in-law of the 90-year-old, the same as me. She was married to the oldest son who died over 3 y ago from prostate cancer. I am married to the second son. So she has a similar relationship to the 90-year- old as I do. I first noticed her down-market dressing over 25 years ago though and she hasn’t changed.
I am not asking everyone to feel the same as me. I was musing on it and feeling, maybe like Helena so helpfully suggests, that it may be changing generationally. But interestingly that SIL and myself are only a year apart in age. We obviously had a very different upbringing.

Helena

Veteran

Jenni, where you grew up could also make a difference ... again thinking of my parents, they dressed more formally relative to my friend's parents who were Canadian. Not sure if SIL grew up where you did ... anyways, lots of factors I guess!

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

My sister and I had the same upbringing, but I wished she wouldn’t have had her boys dress in jeans for Christmas dinner in our parents formal dining room. We ate our Sunday dinner there most weeks growing up, right after coming up from church, still in our Sunday best. She did have them wear nice sweaters, but as the oldest grandchildren, they set the stage to be much more casual. Our parents still dress for Christmas dinner, but all the youngest generation is much more casual than our mother had us be at that same table. All that as a way of saying, it might not even be a difference in how you were raised.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

So many factors, yes....

I was brought up to dress nicely for occasions. No one explicitly said it was to show respect...but I do think that was the intention behind the principle.

But I agree with Helena -- there has been some generational shift. My mother put me in velvet dresses for holiday events...and as a femme little girl, I was fine with that (no, actually, I LOVED it!). -- but my own child detested dresses from the age of two, so my rule was "nice" trousers and top. I didn't want to force them into an outfit that felt inauthentic to them.

I really like the way Jenn put it. Maybe we best show respect by dressing in a way that meets our host's expectations (if we know those). Or by balancing those with whatever our own needs for authenticity dictate? Not sure. My mother didn't want me to wear jeans to school and didn't allow it until she couldn't stop me (i.e. I was buying my own clothes.) But she never objected when my child showed up to her supper party in pants instead of a dress. By then, trousers were normal wear.

nuancedream

Veteran

I too was brought up with the understanding that you dressed up for special occasions like dinner at a nice restaurant or a theater performance. When I moved to Seattle in the late 1980s, it was quite a shock to see some people dressed down eating dinner at the Space Needle. I also got a lot comments at work for being dressed up. They were not necessarily complimentary. Personally, I would rather be a bit overdressed than underdressed considering the occasion and the environment. When I am underdressed, it's anxiety provoking because I become too focused on myself and my perceived shortcomings rather than more important issues, ideas or people.

Jenni NZ

Veteran

I guess in the end I just have to say that my belief that it shows respect to dress like that may need to fade as other ways of showing love and respect and kindness may take precedence in society? I would never have criticised my own daughter for wearing jeans to the party, whereas I was most unhappy in 2006 that the older daughter who was 15 at the time wore them to a different family wedding. ( Partly my own fault at the time, I didn’t realise that she had filled out a bit and didn’t fit the smart dress pants I had carefully earlier bought her since she wasn’t into dresses at the time).
But somehow my DD2 in those jeans with a pretty top, nice hair and makeup, a refined pearl pendant and silver earrings and pretty flats, looked so appropriate and respectful for her grandfather’s 90th! Better than plastic Crocs anyway

rachylou

Veteran

I have had a thought: while I may not have been taught to show respect through dress, I *have* been taught to dress to BE respectable. There’s a meaningful difference there in my mind, but maybe not so much in practice.

JAileen

Veteran

I want to add that I don’t necessarily care what others wear. However, when my millennial son (employed in tech) visits, and we are going to go out for Christmas Eve dinner with his 96YO grandmother, I do ask that he dress nicely. His interpretation of that might not be what I would choose, but at least he’s not wearing a ratty old tee.

cjh

(website)

Veteran

My instincts are to nod in agreement with those who wish the modern standard of dressing for special events was as dressed up as in the past. I was taught that dressing up for church was out of respect and honor for the Lord, so the value carried over into other aspects of our lives - modest, dark clothing for funerals, fancy “best” for weddings and parties. My mother, in encouraging the same behavior when we as teens adopted the post-hippie sloppiness, said one should always dress up a little bit more than one thinks she should. I discovered she was right when I wore raggedy cut off shorts and old shirt to a party (on country club drive.) I was embarrassed! Nowadays I enjoy matching (to me) outfits, a bit of jewelry, going with festive choices for festivities.

However, I also see one factor ( as an old person) that I hadn’t considered before. If I ask a 30-something what she would wear going out for cocktails, I doubt if she would say (as I might) a charcoal chiffon dress with a sprinkle of sparkles on the bodice, a small black satin clutch, and silver heeled sandals. She would probably say skinny jeans, animal print halter top, red leather mini crossbody bag, and black booties. She would feel appropriate and dressed up.

So do we think this is because each generation has learned a different standard, or just different expressions of the standards? Is it cultural, economic, individual expression, or lack of knowledge? If an invitation is sent with “dress up” or “cocktail attire” or whatever, should we send a photo example? I don’t know the answers. I’ve seen people dressed for funerals in other parts of the country as if going to a cocktail party, yet so was everyone else in attendance. Local and family cultural norms are always in play, too. Good discussion.

Jenni NZ

Veteran

I am so happy I asked! You are all making me feel better.
Thank you Lisap for admitting to snobbery (sp?-snobbishness?-not sure the right word! ) If I can understand that about myself it can make me more likely to perhaps try to make more allowances when others don’t meet my expectations. Some of it too may be a pretence we have in New Zealand that we are an egalitarian society not based on class, but more and more I realise how upper middle class I really am and behave and think. I think my mother was a significant snob and influenced me more than I knew she did. She has been gone 20 years but it’s not so easy to throw off the shackles as it were- and I did love her even although she was also difficult. Oh dear, tears in my eyes!

Sal

Veteran

It can be tricky when people have a different view of what is appropriate. I have been on both sides, underdressed very unwittingly and I felt very uncomfortable about it (English and NZ business dress is quite different!).

I do feel that dressing in your "best" is a way of showing respect, and whilst there are different ideas of what your best is, I think there are times when it is called for.

At my Mum's funeral there were people there in jeans which I was comfortable with, as I knew for these farm workers this was their best and it was tidy and neat and respectful. But I have also gone to a formal dinner party where others have turned up in beach shorts and tees because they couldn't be bothered, and I found that disrespectful to the hosts.

I think as you say Jenni that different upbringings and backgrounds have a large influence. And some people are just determined to dress their own way whatever, and I guess it must be very important to them.

Anonymous

I was brought up in the appropriate dress camp and am only comfortable dressed as such but I recognize that it is absolutely none of my business how other people dress and no way to know who's "right".

My natural impulse to judge is checked by remembering that the harsh eye I turn on others is the same one I will use on myself.

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Jenni, hugs to you! I expect that when we’ve pushed back against our mothers our whole lives, having them be gone might be even more difficult than missing them is for people who had straightforward, happy relationships with their mothers.

rachylou

Veteran

Humans are very rank oriented instinctively... you know what’s interesting, is what it means to be noble (as opposed to ‘a noble’). To be noble, that is a blessing and worthy of aspiration. I like that.

JAileen

Veteran

Okay here’s a big change: when I was a child, and my mother was going to “The City” (San Francisco) she wore white gloves.

MsMary

Veteran

My natural inclination is to think that of course we should show our respect by how we dress, and anybody who doesn't wasn't raised right or doesn't care or whatever.

But. There are many, many people in this world for whom that kind of concept simply isn't on their radar. I work in the court system and every day I see people come into court in shorts, or gym clothes, or distressed jeans, or what have you. To me it seems shockingly disrespectful, and in some cases maybe it is demonstrating a lack of respect. But as noted above, some people are wearing the best clothes they have, and for other people it just plain doesn't occur to them that a stop at court on the way to the gym demands any more special costume than a stop at the gas station or the grocery store. So I try to assume good intentions and just worry about myself.

(TL;DR: What Phoebe said!)

Jenni NZ

Veteran

Thank you MsMary- and also Phoebe. I agree, and it helps to realise that I am thinking a certain way according to my age, class and upbringing. Thus I need to learn to “judge not”, since for so many people it seems what you say is true, this concept is not even on their radar.
I will probably always judge a little, as getting old now ( turning 60 soon), but at least I can also try to suspend it as well.

doggeh lover

I had a similar experience to nemosmom. My cousin drowned when he was 16 (I was 15 at the time) and I remember several of his friends going to my Aunt in tears, saying they wouldn't be at the funeral because they didn't own any 'nice enough' clothes to wear, but wanted her to know it wasn't because they didn't care This was back in the mid-70's, thrift shops weren't common. She straight up told them it didn't make any difference to her what they wore and ignore any comments/looks they might get (I'm cleaning this up a bit.) and that they were loved and appreciated for just showing up, that what mattered was in their hearts, not what was on their butts. Amen! However, I was very appalled by a young (early 20's) female I recently saw leaving a funeral wearing a blazing pink hoodie and short shorts with 'JUICY' bedazzled on her ass. Even if she had no other clothing choices (highly doubtful) could've turned the shorts inside-out to dull the design, ACK!

12 3