For whatever reason, I don't think I've ever been invisible to others, whether it was because of my race or my appearance or other reason. I remember in my younger years, I used to dress to be invisible to avoid attention (but that didn't work so well).

At the present, I don't feel invisible, even at 48, as a mom, and weighing more than I did as a young one. Visually, my bright red hair is pretty striking. Also, part of it has to do with my energy and personality. I can really put myself out there, and people respond to that. Of course, this is all my subjective opinion

As I said in IK's post about unwanted attention - I've always been oblivious to men's attention, even when I was younger and dating. So I don't think I'd notice now whether I was getting attention or not. To be truthful it's kind of a relief not to have to worry about it. I guess if I were back in the dating world I would feel differently. But I was just thinking along the same lines as Thistle the other day in regards to DD. Youth is definitely celebrated in our culture instead of celebrating each special stage of our life. As an almost 40 year old, I am so grateful to be where I'm at and not in my 20's. So my job is to try to counteract culture and teach her about the beauty of all ages, shapes and sizes.

Interesting thread so I had to chime in...
Now that I'm over 50 I guess I do sort of get the "invisible" thing, but I used to just wonder about it myself. I've read about it for years and even watched other people being ignored basically in public situations - sometimes due to age, sometimes due to personal attitude, sometimes due to looks, and sometimes due to perceived socio-economic conditions.

I must say I prefer the company of people quite a bit older than myself and I guess I always have. Maybe because I never feel invisible around them. Don't get me wrong, I've had plenty of friends my age. But those friendships seem to have faded more easily than those with my older friends. Or they were more challenging all along. Kids, marriages, work, competitiveness, etc. I've always found that people who were already past all that (older people) were much easier to spend time with. They HAD time to spend, to share, to laugh. They weren't competing any more. They wanted to share their wisdom. Sometimes they needed help (but wouldn't ask so I'd just offer). My younger friends always seemed pretty self-absorbed. Like I'd ask them about their day, their lives, their work and they never asked about mine or if they did they were immediately distracted without really hearing the answer.

Just the other evening we went to a wine and dine event. Lots of people. I wore a new necklace I got recently - rather bold in design. I got 5 compliments on that necklace in less than one hour - all from much younger women. I've never received that many compliments on ANY one thing in my life. And esp. not since I've been, say over 45. It felt a bit weird. But it also made ME feel a bit invisible. Like they were only seeing the "item" and not the person wearing it. My DH made me feel much better (unbeknown to him) by pointing out that it wasn't just the necklace, it was the way I had styled it! I guess he's understanding my fashion interest.

So the "invisible" thing is hard to decipher to me - but I know it's there. I think we all may have it from time to time - rather young or old. Sometimes it is by choice (we're not feeling social) and sometimes it's by circumstance (the oldest or youngest one in the group). No matter what the case, I think it's important to realize it exists and then take some action so as not to feel that way unless you really want to feel that way. Smile often, speak up when you want to say something, keep current in your interests, and branch out in your friendships. Maybe even wear that bold item on purpose to attract attention! And if any friend makes you feel invisible, by all means move on! Life is short.

What an interesting conversation!

Ladies, I had my 70th birthday last month (and promise to post pictures shortly... as soon as the camera issues are resolved). I do not feel invisible at all, but I used to. The invisible feeling first occurred when I was in my early 40's, a time that can be very depressing. I got over that, but became even more invisible when my husband died. I was 58 and a widow. Widows are not just invisible, they are pariahs.

But I got over that too, and am now having a wonderful life. I believe you feel invisible if you do not value yourself, or if you only valued your now-fading looks. Your looks may change, but your knowledge and wisdom grow if you cultivate them.

Honeybuns, my 24 year-old-coworker is feeling invisible. She can't find a date.

You know what it is, right? Once you leave school, you just don't have that "let's find new things, new activities, and new people" environment.

Unless, of course, you're the sort who hooks up with people on the freeway...

Rachy - tell her not to lose hope; had a bunch of frogs from 22 to 26. 27 is where it's at.

I never really feel invisible. I'm 44, but most people think I'm much younger in person. I'm just not photogenic. I've always been around a diverse group of people, all ages, genders, cultures. I'm a little hyper so I might be harder to miss.

Very interesting responses and thread.

I'm reading this while sitting in the heart of east TX ranch country, where I could only be invisible if I put on camo. Context definitely plays a big role in this.

However, on a broader scope, I understand what many of you are saying, as I am nearing 50. I have never considered myself any great beauty, but I got plenty of male attention from the age of 15 on. Of course, getting older, settling down, and having other far more pressing priorities in my life have made me not care so much about being "seen." However, I do appreciate not being invisible and understand how painful that feeling may be. Heck, just the other day walking through the inner harbor back at home, some random guy said to me, "Hi cutie." And I don't mind that kind of attention -- as long as its not crass or disrespectful. I'm 48 so I don't expect I'll get that much longer.

I've sometimes felt invisible in customer service situations -- at a bar or a cashier -- but sometimes I think that's more employee attitude than my actual invisibility.

Mary, my mom experienced that very same thing with the last church she attempted to join, almost 40 years ago. Some churches just aren't all that friendly, which is very sad.

I know it sounds disingenuous but I have always been oblivious to age and focused on seeing the whole person. When it came to people, I didn't see age or think about it too much. That is probably because I was young.

Sadly, being 40 something In LA (and having doors slammed in my face literally due to invisibility) has made me realize that others' perceptions are different.

I feel a loss---but remember that a lot of behavior is biologically-based and it is what it is.

I tutor grad students from other countries (average age 26) and while I am technically old enough to be their mothers, I am always surprised (and a little taken aback) when they ALL say "You are so much like my Mom." Nurturing Mom vibe? I tell myself It's a good thing.

I have felt invisible when another, much more conventionally attractive and interested/open-for-business woman was beside me. I once had a guy literally stop in mid-sentence to watch said girl walk past, and another cut me dead at a business party when some hot thing wanted advice on how to get into advertising. I take it as a sign of their character and file it away for later use. Sometimes men are just idiots.

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It's interesting to see how some people here associate invisibility with "lack of attention from the opposite sex." Do people feel like they are more invisible to one sex than the other? Is that more bothersome than the feeling of all-around invisibility? Does this mean our sense of, I dunno what to call it, worth?, needs to be reflected somehow by others?

And Kim, thanks for bringing this up and wanting to bring understanding and sensitivity to the "invisibility" issue.

cciele, I want to add a few questions to your list. Why is being invisible bad or negative? Do we all have the same definition of invisible?

Personally I have always found that if I am open and sociable with other women I receive the same in return, however, in situations where this is a large group of women whom I have never met before, such as a toddler group, my own shyness can lead to an overall sense of awkwardness. In these instances I can be acutely aware of my visibility.

Here's my invisibility experience. When I was 29, I decided I was tired of being fat, and I lost 75 pounds in a little over six months, hitting my goal weight a week before my 30th birthday. As a fat woman, I was completely invisible to most men, and the men who noticed me where often rude in their behavior toward me, as if they were doing me some big favor. I never dated. Afterwards, men who would not have taken the time to cross the street before, were now coming out of the woodwork. And I'm not even conventionally attractive. It was so disconcerting because all that had changed was my looks, not the real me. I still didn't date much, though. I am the original manrepeller and kind of glad about that.

And KKards, sorry to omit BR, GAP, Target (I get most of my clothing there) and Nordstrom. We don't have Nordstrom in Hooterville, Nebraska, but I have shopped there. We have a similar high-end retailer called Von Maur that is high-touch and welcoming to "mature women" (although it can be spendy). I guess my comment is that these stores advertise more generally and do not focus entirely on the youth market. There used to be a plus-size women's store called The Forgotten Woman. Anyone remember that?

Those are good questions.

I'm wondering what sort of things people have done to control their level of visibility and how effective those things have been?

I own up to manipulating my visibility, wild child and date-available quotients all the time.

Oh yes- invisible all my life. Used to bother me but you know what? I am 60, have a fabulous marriage (to the one person who "saw" me), great kids, and the realization that all those who never noticed me never got to see me finally shine.

Interesting..... Looks were always important to me as a young woman. Then, 13 years ago we were blessed with a little girl who just happened to have Down syndrome. This experience, while at first was devastating, turned out to be a blessing in disguise. It taught me that the outside package is just that.....just the wrapping paper and what counts is inside! Cliché, I know.....but, now I try to get to know others first and hope others do the same-- So, I think it projects a confidence and approachability that I didn't have before when I was younger and more attractive on the outside....

Does that make sense? Oh, and I will be 50 next year.....

Generally speaking, I don't feel invisible, which is probably why I have 3 very distinct, permanently etched memories of times I did feel invisible/irrelevant. The first was in my mid 20s. I had a very good, relatively high profile well-paying job with a steady employment history, and had unfortunately just married the wrong man (but that's another story). I received a "pre-screened" solicitation from American Express. I thought, "oh wow, I've arrived!" I called to apply. The first thing they asked was whether I was married. When I said yes, they said my husband would have to apply as the primary card holder and then he could add me to his card. I tried to explain that I had no intention of putting him on my card. I made more money than he did. My credit score was perfect and his was far from it. Finally, I was responsible for the vast majority of purchasing decisions. Plus, they sent me the "pre-screened" letter, not him. The guy explained that they must have assumed I was a man because of my name.

The next time I was around 30-32. I was planning to meet my mom for lunch, but I had some shopping to do at Neiman's first so we were going to meet there. As I recall, it was a fairly pricey winter coat that I was after. I walked around with the coat I wanted in the wrong size for over half an hour trying to get someone to check the back for a smaller size. No SA would make eye contact, and whenever I headed in the direction of one, she either slipped in to the back or quickly sought out another customer to help. The minute my mom walked in, 2 SA's came over to offer her assistance. I just handed one of them the coat I was carrying, and said I won't be needing this anymore. I guess they thought I was too young to afford such an expensive coat, I don't know. I was dressed properly. I felt like a doorknob.

The third time was just a couple weeks ago. I was visiting my daughter, and we went to Santa Monica to do some shopping. My daughter is a 21 year old 5'7" long-legged blonde bombshell. As we walked down the street, the men (I use that term loosely since they were likely all under 30) were dropping like flies. One guy honed in on her from a block away. As he passed us, he turned to walk backwards to keep staring at her and ran smack into a light post. The whole day was like that. I kept scanning the crowd to see if anyone wasn't paying attention to her.

I've spent the last 25 years gleefully rejecting American Express' overtures, both through the mail and at places like Costco where they set up shop. I have spent boatloads of shopping dollars in the past 20 years...not a penny of it at Neiman's. And finally, I will happily yield the spotlight to my daughter anytime!

This is such an interesting thread with so many perspectives to think about.

Here's mine, starting with the opposite sex. First, I have to admit something: I'm a flirt. There, I said it. Not an inappropriate or attention-seeking flirt, but there's something fun about subtle acknowledgements between people who see something in each other, whatever that is. It doesn't have to be about beauty or worth...I think more often it's more about a sense of confidence or enjoyment in who you are that other people might respond to. That said, at 45 I'm definitely starting to feel invisible to the opposite sex, so maybe it's more about youth than I previously thought. It's not a big deal to me because (as Cinnamon Fern put it so well), I'm the star of my show, but I confess when I think about it, I realize that I'm in a different stage of life now.

I don't seem to be invisible to other women, or to sale assistants, etc, and I'm definitely not invisible to DH:) And I'm not invisible to myself, which is the most important thing.

Great stories Carter!
I love this thread.
I think a big part of belonging to YLF is being visible to others, even form behind my keyboard.
I love fashion and spend an inordinate amount of time on my outfits generally. Who 'notices' enough to comment- you lovely Fabbers and my Mum!
Sometimes I miss the male attention received in my teens and twenties, but not often.
I think I enjoy it more nowadays vicariously through my daughters, and would have soaked it up when I was young if I had realised how short-lived and shallow it really is.

It definitely depends on context. I am 42 and I don't feel it yet. My mum is 73 and she definitely does. Even I see it when I am with her. Sales clerks talk to ME, even though my mum was the one who asked them a question. The restaurant check is given to me, waitstaff ask me the questions instead of her. She claims that I still turn heads as far as men go, although I don't see it, nor does it matter to me. But "invisibility" for older women is not only referring to attractiveness to the opposite sex; it is present almost everywhere. Indeed, attention from men is the least of it.

Imagine a misogynistic car dealer who speaks to the man you have with you when YOU are the one buying a car - he assumes you don't know what you are talking about, won't understand what he tells you and that you don't really know what you want and what is best for you. Then imagine the whole world acting that way, and that's how it can feel for an older woman.

lyn* - are you dating someone? Details! And annagybe, I am sending you a great big tacky virtual cat call.
I am 5'11" so hard to blend in in general. But I know the feeling, it is akin to being "Ma'am- ed". On the other hand I always notice older women, especially in my line of work, there are so many out there. Just as many gorgeous elders as pretty young things IMO.

Hi Kim! Thanks for starting this thread, and to everyone else for your great comments.

I am much more invisible to the opposite sex now than even 3 years ago. I commented on this in Ironkurtin's thread. I am not, however, invisible to my boyfriend! Also, I'm not invisible to my co-workers or family, or YLF -- also important.

Where I have noticed the invisible feeling: at work dealing with the public when I'm not the only one around. If someone comes in and wants directions or advice, or wants to speak to a manager, they 99% of the time go to my boyfriend or brother -- because they are middle-aged males. If they are coming in to ask a favor, for example, they want to use our restaurant's customer-only bathroom (without any intention of dining or buying a cup of coffee), they are much more likely to ask a teenage bus girl or 20-something server for the key.

I don't feel invisible at retail. First of all, I try to treat anyone in service with the respect, patience and kindness/a smile. I work in customer service, I know how hard it can be -- you have to bite your tongue all day long. I feel I usually receive excellent service because I go into it with a good attitude.

Having said all of this none of this bothers me too much, I am still overall happier in my 50s than I was in my 20s, 30s and especially 40s (my own personal hell time -- failed marriage, job losses, health problems, etc. etc.).

One final thought:
My mother always told me you can use the invisible thing to your advantage because people will underestimate you. I try to remember this as I become more invisible with age LOL!

I know in many settings I'm steadily becoming more invisible. Sometimes that's fine, and other times I try to become visible by smiling, making eye contact or whatever to get on the waiter/SA or whomever's radar. I had lots of fun attention when I was young, and sometimes I miss it. It's challenging to even get a compliment these days. I've taken to complimenting total strangers, because SOMEONE needs to notice when they've made an effort to look great.

Gosh, wow. I have not ever felt invisible! I guess when I want to disappear I withdraw myself from invitations, activities, the gym. Then of course I am invisible. But when I am OUT there, I am not. It must be my attitude. I haven't really ever felt passed over for anything. Not yet, at 49. Maybe that's why I like geting dressed so much, because it signifies, "I'm here! I'm in the game!" Maybe as I get older I will refuse to be invisible, like the cool ladies and gents of the Advanced Style blog. Have you ever read it?

I'm in my twenties and deal with invisibility to retail staff ALOT. I've written posts on in. I generally by fairly pricey shoes (for my community) and generally don't browse for fun, so if I am in your store I am there to shop. I get sick of being ignored or brushed off. I went to Sephora to pick up part of my Secret Elf gift recently in my lab clothes after class and could not get the attention of a sales staff. I'm fairly natural when it comes to cosmetics, but I have no idea why I got treated like I didn't care about my appearance. I've walked out of retail stores several times in the last 6 months or so when I have been ready to drop large chunks of money because of poor customer service where others around me that looked like a better "investment of sales time" to the staff were served and I was not.

I also often feel invisible to other women and men near my age. Most of the attention I receive is from men 10-30 years my senior. I don't mind now, as I take this as a good sign that I will still interest people as I age, but it was sorta worrisome in my teens.

I am sorry to hear about so many bad experiences in retail - I would definitely write/call in and let the managers or customer service people know. If there is no improvement, then the company clearly doesn't care, but sometimes maybe no one realizes the staff is acting like that.

There are so many various interesting points being made in this discussion that I have no idea where to begin. I've decided I just want to focus on MaryK's anecdote for now. It's all too relatable for me in general but right now in a very specific context. MK, I can almost definitely assure you this has nothing to do with age or looks. I would agree that there is an underlying threat or weirdness people are perceiving, or snobbery....or just plain rudeness or social ineptness or whatever you want to call it. I recently decided to stop going to weekly practices in the larger tango community, which are like a big free-for-all where everyone goes and the women hope to be asked to dance. (To be clear, I am definitely not quitting my classes, lessons, and the teachers I really adore.) But those practices, man....it's not even the dancing--I couldn't get more than a brusque one-minute conversation out of most of those women. I couldn't take it after months of trying. I really don't attribute it to age--in fact, most of those snobby, exclusive women were quite older than me! And the ironic thing is, I ended up trying out another practice at MIT, the university, which my teacher had told me would be asking for age discrimination. Go figure, I had a great time, got asked to dance a lot, and was welcomed effusively by really young women and had wonderful conversations when I took a break from the dancing.

So it's really hard to judge. And New England is supposed to be cold and clique-y, and Cali warm and friendly....and who knows for sure? I just know it's not about you. PS you look fantastic and a decade younger than your actual age.

I just have to chime back in to say the I love Catnip's post. "like, like, like"