Deluxe - How Luxury Lost Its Luster - Kick-off Thread

Inge

Good morning everyone,

YLF Book Club is back this month with Dana Thomas' informative book about the big players in fashion and how the luxury industry has completely changed over the years: Deluxe - How Luxury Lost Its Luster.

There's a huge amount of information in the eleven chapters, and I found it a very compelling read. Call me nostalgic, but I particularly enjoyed the parts in which the author describes the history behind each brand and tells us more about the people who originally founded luxury fashion houses like Louis Vuitton. The description of how products were handmade - a rare occurrence these days - with much care and attention to detail always fascinates me. I have the utmost respect for handmade quality, and the passion of designers who still believe this is possible today.

I loved the "Sweet Smell of Success" chapter that tells us more about the inspiration and creative process behind the bestselling Hermès perfume "Un jardin sur le Nil". (fascinating also how natural and synthetic ingredients are added 'on top of each other' to create a signature scent) And I was particularly peeved to learn that many companies are now diluting and cheapening ingredients in classic perfumes to lower the cost of production.

Money rules the fashion world nowadays, whether we like it or not. That's the biggest leitmotiv throughout the book. Giant concerns buying and selling off fashion houses for huge profits, business decisions based on financial considerations only with little regard for original quality or the human factor, designer knock-offs and the tragic story of child labour, the birth of duty-free shopping...

I'm very curious to hear your take on all this. And as always: feel free to start new threads if you'd like to discuss one or more aspects in more detail.

12 years ago

Book Club

25 replies

Latest reply was from lyn*

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I have not read the book Inge, but the discussion sounds fascinating.

12 years ago

bj1111

Veteran

i love hearing about the history behind fashion houses and how each got its start. it tickles me that hermes started out in the saddlery business. i would like to own a piece of fashion history, like a handmade hermes bag or boots. but the price really is out of reach. so the philosophical question i grapple with is do i do without because there really is no substitute, or do i buy the look, knowing that it is not supporting the fashion house and the aesthetic that i value?

12 years ago

rachylou

Veteran

Ok. DANGER. RANT AHEAD.

No joke. Y'all will need to drag me off the street corner and rip the sandwich board off my back. I so need to read this book. It is buried somewhere in my mother's basement. I wanted to read it so bad because I feel luxury is dead.

Used to reminisce about this with my hair stylist and her daughter. They are "old world", like myself. We'd talk about when Ferragamos were a decently priced *N*ice pair of shoes. Going abroad on buying trips for the lovely things that you can't get in a third world country and, not to mention, basic household goods also not so available. Glycerin soap, linens, Gucci and (lol) those creepy Meissen figurines (those have a fascinating history).

The thing about luxury goods then is you were paying for something tangible. They were a little fancy but mostly serviceable. And that fancy was in comparison to, oh say, being shoeless. The luxury was in the time put into them, the waiting for good materials, solving little (or big) problems. Being made in a refined manner. You weren't just making do.

Today, it's like the luxury market has been infected by the paradigms of conceptual art. You don't have to have an actual painting, just a scrap of paper that says "painting of horse." AND that scrap of paper is quadruple the price. What are you really paying for with Louboutins? Red soles. Yes, they're high fashion and no doubt well made, if maybe not walkable. But the price is for the red soles. That much for red soles? Really? And half those outlet stores are a big con. A double C on a t-shirt? C'mon. That is not refined.

Couture, esp., is cold in its grave. That reach for the sublime and throwing the all of human artistry into one item. Now that WAS extravagant, but people were going for the stars on a one shot deal. The name of the game now is mass merchandising. ...On a side note: People talk about perfection and quality. But here is why I go on about beauty requiring flaws... handmade means flaws. Flawlessness is the product of machines.

Anyways, I don't really mind the double C t-shirts. But I think it ought to be understood that what we're talking about is a form of tribalism on a global stage, where people line up behind logos and brand personality like national flags...

...Blah blah blah blah. Lol!

12 years ago

rachylou

Veteran

Oh sorry. I did go on there...

12 years ago

rachylou

Veteran

I have to bump this. Someone has to talk me down off the ledge.

Una! Tell me how lovely your Burberry Coat is! And then I will say, "But what about Tommy Hilfiger?" And you will point out, "Tommy came to his senses and knocked off all that merchandising."

12 years ago

deb

Veteran

I thought it was interesting how the Japanese were courted in Hawaii. I wonder if those poor people even knew what hit them or how they were manipulated. The 'brand' merchandising really started in Asia then moved west, (or east?) and this is how individuality becomes obsolete. Again, I must say it is for the almighty dollar. Greed is such an ugly thing but it will never go away. I am hopeful that the tide will change and we will once again appreciate beauty that comes with handmade, low production quality.

12 years ago

Caro in Oz

Veteran

This thread has made me want to read the book!
Sounds really interesting, all I knew is Hermes is still a family-owned business & that made them very rare.
Rachylou - you go girl - they are all things worth ranting about.

12 years ago

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

*holding Rachy's hand on the ledge*

Rachy, I support luxury brands because I respect the legacy of the brand, as well as the craftsmanship. I own Prada, Chanel, Burberry and Valentino items. I love them and will have them for life. Not all luxury brands have a legacy, but the ones I support do:

- Prada was a luggage business

- Burberry was a raincoat business

- Valentino started sewing items at home

- And Chanel.....well, she is in a class of her own. She emancipated women's wear. It's because of her that women can wear trousers.

Some people will pay thousands of dollars for art, and others won't. I am one of those people who will because I believe these items are art. I have a huge appreciation for aesthetics. Sure - I love my $90 Zara clutch - and derive GREAT joy from it! I have authentic high-low style. But when my Valentino or Chanel come out to play, there is no comparison.

I believe that luxury items are still alive and kicking. And my favourite way to wear them is with much, much, much cheaper items in one outfit. I get a kick out of that juxtaposition because it evens out the playing fields AND reflects by democratic approach to style. Once again, it feels authentic.

Are we off the ledge?

12 years ago

deb

Veteran

Oh, I forgot to add, I still use glycerin soap!

12 years ago

Anastasia Gelfman Silis

(website)

Member

the big change with those brands begun when they been purchased by business man that not interested in art / fashion or anything like that - it's only a profitable tool for them.

Since then the the down-fall of those houses begun + the worldwide economy slow down not exactly rushing people to spend their money on china - maid products (guess where some of those brands holding their manufactoring)

Anastasia - fashion designer
http://www.letthemstare.com/

12 years ago

catgirl

Veteran

OMG, how fortuitous that I clicked on this thread! Rachy, I so hear you. There is a particular beauty in actual function and purpose. Much of what I admire comes from those types of items. Like the Burberry - it's the idea of the sublime in the practical and craftfully made. It's what the j. peterman catalog captured in its heyday somehow, not just the item but the history and value and story behind the item that made it worthwhile over the ages.

I find this kind of beauty in well-made gear: there really is a difference between a Patagonia jacket and a fashionable knock-off, when you are out there freezing your butt off on a particularly gnarly ridge. Wearing that same Patagonia jacket just to have coffee in Cambridge, Massachusetts? A whole different thing.

The boots I just got are handmade and are well-crafted beyond anything II've ever seen, like something from another time - could be future, could be past - but they are clearly meant to be worn and I intend to wear them. Same way my mom had pricelessly lovely Persian rugs, but didn't treat them preciously or treat lightly on them - they were there to cover the bare floors and keep our feet warm.

I'm well aware of the irony of my own often impractical fashion aspirations - do I really need coated plaid skinnies where I live? - but I am a victim of my own weakness.

Perhaps I neeed to read this book! I have no idea if I'm even close to what you're discussing... clueless as usual!

12 years ago

Inge

(website)

Moderator

I have to run out the door, but will chime in later tonight. All good points, everyone, and Rachylou I hope you are safely off the ledge;-)

12 years ago

krishnidoux

Veteran

This is such an interesting thread! Inge, you made me want to read that book. I too so enjoy historical parts. My mother was given Un jardin sur le Nil and we both marvelled at the smell.

Rachylou, I so get you. I lived in Third World countries where many goods aren't available. Every trip back home was an occasion to bring back some essentials as well as some "luxuries". (I remember in Central America once, there were no more tampons in the city for 3 months - because the boat had not delivered enough, or someone had bought them all off - I never thought tampons were a luxury but they totally are.On my following trip home I brought back boxes or them, just to be sure).

What I hear of you rant is that in the older days, luxury items were better made and more custom made, whereas now even luxury items are mass made with a narrowing of fit choices as well as lower quality.

But in parallel, new materials and fabrics are created which make clothes more comfortable, lighter, warmer, etc. When I wear my grand mother's vintage suits, I can appreciate the couture and detailing. However, the very nature of the fabric - even if top quality tweed etc - makes the whole outfit a little less practical, a little less comfortable, a little less wearable today. Today there is an elasticity that allow wider movement, today there is a lightness that allow more layering without feeling like a donkey carrying all their closet at once, a softness that allow you to forget what you are wearing and fully concentrate on what you're doing.

I agree about the quality issue, though, and totally deplore it myself.

12 years ago

rachylou

Veteran

All salient points. I will come in off the ledge.

Angie, you're right and I did, in fact, see my way this year to a pair of (I should say, serviceable) Prada pumps. I must be fair and should not blame Burberry, for example, for all those knock-off Burberry scarves that make me feel like I've eaten too much cake.

And Una, that IS IT. It IS, to quote verbatim, "the idea of the sublime in the practical and craftfully made." And to quote you again, there is "particular beauty in actual function and purpose." There is something about this that either appeals to my technician soul or, in fact, gave rise to it. I am into that. Also, beautiful things deserve to be loved and used. That puts on wear and tear, but it means they were worth what went into them I feel.

And you're right krishnidoux, today's fabrics and technologies DO enhance wearability and practicality. I live in my puffers, right? Right. All techno.

...ok, so off the ledge...but HELP!!!! Someone hold on to me by the back of the pants and keep me from going out again!!! I saw this morning a pair of Hunters, fur trimmed (not lined, trimmed), for FIVE HUNDRED EIGHTY FIVE DOLLARS.

You know, the buckle fell off my plain Hunters the first season. I have half a mind to stick a $40 chinchilla in my boot. I mean, at least my fuzzy boot would be warm and living company.

I don't know, maybe all luxury companies have these phases as they try to stay relevant and just plain in business, but it would be nice to learn from history and bypass overexposure and wandering away from, well, core competencies.

12 years ago

Scarlet

Veteran

So many points about this book were interesting to me, I don’t know what to focus on.

-I also really liked the part about scent production and the discussion of real versus synthetic ingredients. Seems like Chanel is single-handedly keeping a lot of boutique production businesses going, such as flower farms among others. A scary business model I would think for the artisans.

-I learned a lot about the history of several brands--prior to reading the book I really didn’t know much about what came before LVMH, whereas LVMH I had learned about by reading the Economist, ha!

-A lot of interesting observations/insuations about Prada, and Miuccia herself. There is a quote at the end where she says her own mother complains about the decline in quality of Prada products.

-Interesting perspectives about high-quality production in China

-Oh yes, how Louis Vuitton fashion shows are encouraged to be media spectacles in order to sell handbags as opposed to clothes (better margins), and that Marc Jacobs is very good at this. Finally those giant wigs of Spring 2010 make sense! I am finally at peace.

Rachylou, a quote for you: http://www.garancedore.fr/en/2.....stanza-on/
Also, interestingly Louboutin is one of the few luxury businesses that is still owned and run by the founder, a self-made man, according to the book. So even though I don’t need the red sole for my pride, and I am not into $$stilettos that I would wear twice a year, I would still feel better about spending my money there than at one of the monster global conglomerate companies. Even so, I really like what you said about conceptual art--there is a lot of truth to that as well. Luxury can be both beautiful and disgusting. Actually, a lot of “luxury” these days is only a way to spend lots of money on something that looks nice for a month because despite the name and the price it’s still not well made!!! It’s like they just expect the consumer to be so dumb they can’t tell, or the consumer is so rich and wasteful that despite the cost, they want to discard the item in question after a couple of wears anyway. H&M for the wealthy! Okay, I am rambling big time.

Alaskagirl, I really like how you describe beauty in function and purpose. After all that is where a lot of iconic designs originate, right?

And finally, although I enjoyed this book, I felt like it wasn’t very well written. It was sometimes repetitive and yet hard to follow. I feel like maybe the author is more accustomed to writing shorter self-contained pieces. Still worth the time though.

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12 years ago

Nicole D

Veteran

I think I have drunk the luxury kool aid. I spent more than I spent on my 4 kids' winter outerwear (boots included) on this Basler jacket, the camel cashmere one with the leopard print on the bottom. It is lovingly positioned in my closet, dust cover intact. I love this jacket. It fits perfectly and it says LUXURY to me. I think a piece like that could be an heirloom (animal print, cashmere and camel will never be out of style) that I could pass down to my one of my girls (after I'm dead of course).
But also, I love it because I spent a long time denying myself luxuries as we were building our financial foundation, and now I can afford to outfit my kids AND indulge myself.
But, this piece also is serviceable and durable with proper care - as opposed to stilettos or an evening gown, so I do have some limits!

http://www.basler-fashion.com/lookbook.php?id=11

12 years ago

Gaylene

Veteran

I think that advertising and celebrities have convinced us that "luxury" is a synonym for extravagance and insane amounts of money and that its former association with quality has become tenuous, if not non-existence. And, I think, that we as consumers are as much to blame as the businesses who encourage us to think of them as purveyors of "luxury".

While I agree with Angie's point that she respects the history and craftsmanship of the "luxury" brands and is, therefore, willing to pay the price demanded by works of art, I also think that some of these venerable brands have succumbed to the lure of lending their names to items that aren't always up to their former standards, which is the point that Rachylou seems to be making.

And, unfortunately, as consumers, we are sometimes so captivated by "owning a piece of the legend" that we don't check items as closely as we should and we invest the items with too much significance turning them into a "trophies". And, to keep the ball rolling, we also become convinced that one "trophy" isn't enough: a single Chanel bag multiplies into a closet full of expensive handbags and shoes to show the world that we are people of substance and taste. And then snowballs into imitations (so more of us can participate in the "legend") and to ridiculous items like 500+ fur-trimmed wellies.

I guess that my rant is that our love of "luxury" becomes suspect when we ignore the small, independent purveyors who, perhaps, have the same storied history and continue to produce the same quality but on a realistic scale. Mass production luxury is, to me, the ultimate oxymoron.

12 years ago

Vix

Veteran

Loving the discussion -- being an educated consumer is harder than it seems, I swear. I posted the below on an earlier YLF thread about luxury handbags. Haven't changed my opinions since then!

***

I read [the book] out of curiosity and was both enthralled and appalled. To me there is a difference between capitalism + weaving a "story" consumers want to hear and for which they'll pay (branding) and being deceptive.

Companies that opt for the latter...don't get me started.

There's a lot of fascinating content in the book re: marketing driving the "It Bag" phenon. It's an easy way for luxury houses to make money and women were/are open to it because accessories get around the often fraught issue of weight on the customer side and fit on the producer's side.

Tidbits for the interested:

- She says Hermes (as of 2007, anyway) is one of the very few luxury brands that handcrafts every bag from start to finish minus glue. [Glue = sign of plebian bags.]

- Vuitton produces in France and now Spain, but has an assembly-line technique.

- Many, many [unnamed by Thomas due to restrictions] more produce in China but go to great lengths to hide that and/or have all but one part of the bag assembled in China. Remaining part is added in Europe and tagged "Made in Italy" etc.

As I've already said, this to me is capital D Deception.

- Most of the highest-end Made in China bags are of high-quality (some brands sent artisans to train Chinese workers) but the profit margin is even more insane than the Made in Europe. MiC: $120 for brand to produce, retail = $1,200.

Also some really interesting stuff re silk production. Chief thing is that most silk twill for luxury printed scarves made in Europe comes from China. Scarves = $40 - 50 to produce and retail for 10 x that. If Made in China, production is $25 - 30 each but retail doesn't drop.

12 years ago

rachylou

Veteran

Scarlet, I love Costanza. I'm adopting her quote.

Nicole, I can see you in that jacket. That is definitely you.

Vix, it does seem a fair number of the companies we consider to be luxury brands started out with assembly-line or industrial manufacturing techniques.

& Gaylene, speaking of trophies, during the course of this thread I've realized I shouldn't have just gone into a shoe shop and bought rubber rain boots (Hunter, $112). I should have mailed away for rubber farm boots which have freeking padded soles (Hunter Argyll, £39!!!). That is, if I should have bought Hunter at all. They're tall and grey, which I like, and have Her Majesty's seal, but honestly...

12 years ago

CocoLion

(website)

Veteran

I am no longer in the luxury brand market. In the 90s, I purchased my fair share of Prada shoes and bag, but I had a much higher income then, at least 10 fold what it is now.

The upshot is that, since I no longer experience luxury brands, I have no opinion on where they've gone one way or another. I haven't read the book either. In fact, I am one month behind on the Book Club schedule, having finally watched the Vidal Sassoon movie.

Rachylou, I enjoyed your rant.

Angie -- reading your thoughts on mixing high and low made me realize that when I think I'm mixing high and low, I'm really not. I'm just mixing my own version of high and low. For example: when I mix a pair of True Religion jeans with a Kohl's top, that is mixing high and low in my mind. But really it's mixing high and mid.

Another thing I realized that is, the classic luxury brands like Chanel, Burberry, Hermes, Luis Vuitton -- don't really express my style. If I were gifted an item from these brands of course I would love it. But saving up my tips for something from them is not an option. Saving up for a Rag & Bone jacket or an Alexander Wang bag, that might be of interest to me now.

12 years ago

RoseandJoan

Veteran

I'm sorry Inge I have not had the chance to pick up this book yet but it sounds like an informative read.

I understand where Angie is coming from with regards to the heritage of brands. As a 15 year old from a very working class background I spent hours puring over fashion magazines and read my first book about Coco Chanel, her story as well as design aesthetic and practical nature had me dreaming of owning a piece of the brand BUT I also knew that buying a perfume or a resin bangle was not for me. I wanted a 2.55 and to this day still do. I will probably go my whole life without touching this dream but it symbolises working hard to achieve something more.

I do have luxury on my doorstep and I find it vitally important that I support it whenever I can; the headquarters of Eribe may be seen from my bedroom window, if I choose to buy Hawick cashmere I am helping to keep the last of areas mills open and protect it's heritage and I love my Cuero leather handbags which are designed and made by Caroline locally.

Luxury is in the details and need not cost the earth.
http://eribe.co.uk/content/about-eribe
http://www.hawickcashmere.com/home.php
http://cuero.co.uk/

12 years ago

Inge

(website)

Moderator

There are so many good points in this thread, and I loved reading all your thoughts.

While reading the book I started thinking about what luxury (with regards to clothing and accessories) means to me personally, and I came to the following conclusion:

- The ultimate in luxury would be bespoke, one of a kind pieces that fit my body perfectly, made with beautiful, high-quality fabrics. There's a passage in the book where actress Leslie Caron describes how nothing can beat the feeling of putting on a coat, jacket or dress where the sleeves, silhouette, seams etc. are all exactly "right" and mold to every "nook and cranny" of her body.
Of course, and the author does emphasize this, even back then (when these luxury fashion houses first started out) this level of bespoke tailoring was only within reach of the very rich and famous.

- Attainable luxury for me starts with the same principle as above: I feel happy, "rich" and special in clothing items and accessories that are made of good-quality fabrics, fit well and show that time and effort has been put into how well something drapes and feels on my body. This by no means - to Julie's and other commenters' point - has to cost and arm and a leg (although it's true that you often do pay a little more for well-tailored items that will last you a good many years). E.g. I derive much pleasure from wearing my Dr. Martens 20 eyelet boots (also an iconic brand by now, with a very good reputation), my pinstriped Theory blazer that fits and flatters more than any jacket I have ever owned, a patterned silk scarf I purchased from an Etsy seller who went through the trouble to send me fabric samples to make sure that the olive green in the scarf was the right shade for my skintone etc.

- I also don't really mind that not all these good-quality items are hand-made. That does not detract from the luxury feel for me. Excellent workmanship and quality can also be found in industrially produced wares. What I do mind is when a brand (any brand, low price, mid-range or super expensive) is not completely truthful about their production process and methods and/or overcharges for shoddy quality.

12 years ago

lamireille

Active Member

I love the idea of luxury, but to me, now that I am old and wise (or feeling old, anyway), luxury has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with price, and negatively to do with with labels. An item that I love and could happily imagine wearing for years, oh, that is luxury, whether it costs $5 or $50 or $500 (and since I'm on a budget, I'm just throwing the $500 in to be fancy).

I wish it hadn't taken me so long to figure out that it's worth saving up for one item that rates a 10 out of 10 instead of spending the same amount of money for five or ten pieces that rate a 6 or 7 out of 10. Now I've got a closet full of 6s that I haven't gotten my money's worth out of yet.

11 years ago

Ginkgo

Veteran

Finally finished my library book!

I've never paid much attention to the luxury brands, just remembered the luxury shop zones in Hawaii and Australian Gold Coast crowded with Japanese tourists -- their goods weren't enticing at all besides the ridiculous expense. It was interesting to read here how the luxury mania was invented by big business for the "masses"; meanwhile a number of the firms still quietly produce the true luxury items for the very wealthy. Hermes and Louboutin are still privately owned and dedicated to quality and beauty -- I found myself looking for Hermes scarves on ebay so that I could also own a little bit of beauty.

The author states that a few decades ago middle-class people would not have wandered into Tiffany, that mothers told their daughters "we don't belong here", but that's because people had to shop with cash then. Even thirty years ago I don't think that credit cards were that commonplace, you just couldn't easily live the fantasy life on paycheck to paycheck basis. Putting aside online shopping over the last ten or fifteen years, I think the growth in our closet size over the last fifty years correlates with the expansion of credit.

11 years ago

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

I read this book on my flight to HK; and it was an interesting read, especially the parts about the changing of the quality/production of these deluxe brands. Everyone and their dog on that flight had an LV bag - and it looked odd to not carry one; I'm sure most of them were not real - or if they were, why are all the straps fraying? If I had paid > $1000 for a bag and the straps FRAYED I would punch someone.

11 years ago

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