Opinions on appropriateness for business casual code (tall boots etc.) - YouLookFab Forum

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Opinions on appropriateness for business casual code (tall boots etc.)

Makrame

Veteran

This is more of a question on personal opinions rather than strict yes/no rules for a certain dress code. With a few presentations as well as heavy teaching approaching, I have been musing on what is appropriate or inappropriate and how to mesh the dress code I prefer for presentations with the winter issues in cold and snowy climate (don't like wet pant hems etc.). I am talking science presentations in a medical school environment, which is dressier than normal "science" dress code but more casual than clinical side of things. My general (personal) rule of thumb is no suits but a jacket or a refined cardigan/sweater and no denim are preferred. So I guess this would be an equivalent of a business casual dress code.

My general rule has been to wear black, brown or grey dress pants (boot cuts/trousers) or a knee-length skirt (Halogen seamed skirt) with a blouse/dress shirt/fine-gauge sweater and a jacket in a non-matching color or a merino cardigan or v-neck sweater. In the winter, it is easiest to wear the skirts with knee-length boots (mine are mostly low-heeled and end just below the knee). This seems fine for small-group teaching but I am wondering whether boots and tights would be considered too casual for slightly more formal settings. See, for example, this discussion on Corporette http://corporette.com/2012/01/.....-the-poll/

What are your personal feelings? Would you avoid skirts unless they can be worn with pumps? What about ankle-length boots? (That would mean black tights to go with the black boots I have; so black boots and tights would be worn with a grey or purple skirt).

The other question is how narrow can the pants be before they can be considered "too informal"? This may sound as a strange question but I have always felt that bootcut or slightly wider-leg trousers (sort of traditional suiting styling) are the most appropriate for business-casual or business-formal. I remember Angie did a blog post on straight trousers for business code. http://youlookfab.com/2011/08/.....ss-casual/ What about something like Martin skinny trousers (picture #2 in this blog post http://youlookfab.com/2010/08/.....nt-styles/ )? Would you consider them appropriate for a lecture with a longer top under a jacket? Or are they still too "fashion-forward" for a more formal setting?

Dressing

14 replies

Latest reply was from Diana

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I think simple black or charcoal narrow trousers would be fine, with the appropriate toppers and footwear.

You could also wear charcoal tights with your black booties and skirts.

I don't see a problem with a dressier boot in the dressier setting....maybe one with a low heel (but that would be adding to your wardrobe!)

Of course, I work from home so I actually have NO idea!!!

bj1111

Veteran

i tend to wear 1 notch below the general dressiness factor...just so you can frame my comments.

i would always wear a jacket if i am in front of an audience, regardless of the dress code. i would match the jacket to the code. so for what you will be doing, in the equivalent setting in my industry, i would wear exactly what you plan, jacket, skirt knee high boots with low heel. this (and skinny pants tucked into boots) is my uniform for this time of year.

for the same level of dressiness but an evening business event, i would still use a jacket with a small evening detail eg peplum,or fabric with a little sheen, dressier skinny pants and pumps or booties. this allows me to wear shorter pants but not tuck in. tucking in boots feels more vavoom at night. this is clearly my weird thing.

i would swap a suit material dress and wear alone if it has a collar or wear a structured sweater jacket over to vary the look.

i like mixing textures, levels of dressiness, and always slammin' shoes. in business, even in the business of science, having a brand is important (obviously must be supported by competence). mine uses my shoes and accessories. others use bow ties ,coloredjackets or brooches (madeline albright.

crazyone

Veteran

Makrame, being in science myself, I think skirts+tall boots are absolutely fine, unless you're meeting people in business. If you're concerned about the "casualness", try to go low contrast with the tights and even the skirt--make sure that you're wearing black tights with black boots, or dark brown tights and dark brown boots. I know of laywers who wear knee high boots to law firms, so I don't think they're too much for med school presentations. I think the only case where you need a higher level of formality is if you're meeting high-ups at a corporation, or donors to the university, etc.

Narrow pants are a bit of a question mark for me, too. I think straight legs are fine, but skinnies are a bit too much. This is more because they give away too much of the body line, and hence don't seem as professional to me.

Parsley

Veteran

Makrame, I'm racking my brain to remember what sort of things our lecturers/ presenters wore when I was in med school. Sadly, I hardly remember there being many women at all- I hope that has changed! But in general the level of attire was schlumpy at best, so anything you choose is likely to be way better than what most people wear.

I think that the choices you propose sound perfectly appropriate: Nice trousers or a knee -length skirt are always fine. I would see no problem with knee-high boots with a skirt.

Personally I wouldn't wear truly skinny pants, but slim-legged trousers should be fine.
I would prefer a jacket to a sweater because it gives you more authority. In fact, I would concern myself more with conveying competence and authority than with the formality level.

Strong, simple, clean-lined looks are good, also high contrast and strong colors.
From what I've seen of your WIWs you have no worries.

Hope that helps!

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

Almost all the lady docs here wear tall, formal boots I vote yay on the simple lines and the boots.

I have noticed that over the winter, once flat-bottomed boots have come out, opaque tights have as well, along with slightly higher hemlines! Very exciting!

Vix

Veteran

Hi Makrame --

Corporette can skew so very conservative due to their audience being heavy on the East Coast Big Law/finance/accounting professionals. It is what is is for folks in those worlds but others can take more liberties with style.

So region is super-important here. Can you remind me/us of your general location?

I will say that your science/medicine/academia mix is a tough one to interpret, though...it's like an Anti-fashion + male-dominated/conservative/random style mash up.

FWIW, your "general rules" listed above are mine when I choose or need to wear a more sober business casual look. Shout-out to the wools in black, brown, and grey! Also FWIW, I absolutely live in heeled dress boots for 8-9 months of the year.

I generally wear b.c. and "business creative."

Photos 1-3:
Some of my work looks that are easy to dial up or down in terms of formality.

While I feel I have more leeway with skirt colors -- and vintage mohair capelets -- than you do, I keep skirts and dresses at or not-to-far above knee-length when I pair them with boots. I agree with Crazyone that going low contrast between skirt/tights/boots is a good rule of thumb.

Photos 4-5:
Though right now all my dress pants seem to be trouser leg, I love straight leg styles and think they are fine for your purposes.

Photos 6-7:
The skinnier leg pants are the dicey one IMO and will be heavily dependent on your area/how much of a style risk-taker you want to be. I'd probably pair them with a classic jacket, match legwear to the pant color and add relatively inconspicous shoes.

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Gaylene

Veteran

First of all, I think you need to be practical about what to wear when you are in front of a large audience, especially if they don't know you personally. Your clothes need to look good from all angles, create an impression of competence and confidence, and, last but not least, take a back seat to your message.

I'd say your instincts are your best guide; chances are if YOU are wondering if something is appropriate, I'd approach that item with caution. Using your example of boots and tights, I think that a pair of black opaque tights in a pair of classic black boots with a lower heel would be just fine in all but the most conservative settings; a pair of colored or patterned tights in a short, "fashiony" bootie, on the other hand, would be more of a statement that might draw too much attention to your clothes at the expense of your message. My same reasoning applies to pant styles. A pair of well-tailored, dark, straight-legged pants is safe; a pair of skinnier, tighter pants might have some members of the audience ogling your assets instead of listening to your topic which doesn't do much for your credibility.

I sometimes use the "elegant" test for an outfit. If what I'm planning to wear looks elegant, then I'm usually on safe ground. As a woman, I want to dress like a female, not a man, but, even more important, I want to be taken seriously by both the men and the women in the audience. I don't want them to be thinking about my clothes (negatively or positively); I want them thinking about my ideas.

Makrame

Veteran

Great answers, and Vix, thanks for the visuals! I am in the Northeast but in the snow belt, not in the more formal NYC/Boston area.

I have a few "completely safe" outfits that I have put together over the last couple of years, and what I am trying to do this year is to add more options as well as make them work for winter weather.

For example, I have wider-leg black trousers that I typically would wear with a lighter top and a navy 3/4 sleeve jacket. But this year I would like to (1) add a long-sleeve navy jacket so that I can have more variety in what kind of tops I can wear and (2) not have to wear wide-leg trousers when there is snow on the ground because of the slush and salt that ends up covering the hems.

As I went through various things in my closet, it turned out the only other pair of black pants I have are black Martin skinny pants, which are essentially straight leg trousers but a bit on a narrow side, like image 7 in Vix's post.

Last year I also got a lot of mileage out of skirts but that was for small group teaching; I haven't worn skirts yet for lectures. I just looked at my WIWs and I think skirts with tall black or grey boots should be fine.

Gaylene, good point about practicality - I usually choose only the most fuss-free clothes for public presentations or lectures, nothing that will twist or ride up or cling, nothing that is even borderline too short or tight.

bj1111

Veteran

gaylene...i tried elegant, because i so love elegant women. i don't think i can do elegant convincingly. perhaps this is something to grow into.

Isis

Veteran

Good advice here, Makrame.

I think you can absolutely wear boots with a skirt, and booties with a skirt are also fine.I also agree that straight or slim legged trousers are fine.

Perhaps you can pay close attention to the other women academics who present in seminars in a clinical academic setting. I never did pay attention when I was at a medical school, and you may remember my panicked question on this forum when I was a keynote speaker before a clinical audience.

The one thing I have never seen are heeled pumps, like in the pics. Have you? In my experience, they are only worn by pharmaceutical sales reps.....and I always wear a jacket or blazer, not a cardigan when speaking in a formal setting....

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

Makrame

Veteran

Yes Isis, I think you are right, I don't usually see heeled pumps worn by women-scientists.

I am fortunate to teach with several women who are always well dressed so I usually try to follow their example in figuring out what to wear to class or presentations but that still does not stop me from being occasionally stumped by what is actually in my closet. And, of course, as soon as I cross over into the M.D. territory, I start seeing nice skirt suits with pumps and all sort of dressy clothes.

I got my "businessy clothes" organized today and figured out a few outfits that should work for a number of occasions. I am glad to have bought a few jackets last year. Also glad that I ordered a couple of nice fine-gauge sweaters on black Friday sales - turns out I really needed some better sweaters to round out my winter "dressier" wardrobe because some of last year's knits are looking tired.

Also received the navy blazer from Zara yesterday that was suggested by Rachylou http://www.zara.com/webapp/wcs.....D%20LINING and have a navy blazer from JCrew on order from the 30% off sale http://www.jcrew.com/womens_ca...../54098.jsp . I like the Zara blazer quite a bit but will keep whichever of the two works better.

Overall, had a very productive couple of hours with my camera and my Excel spreadsheet so should be in a good shape for the winter season.

Vix

Veteran

Hi Makrame --

Glad we could collectively opine that you're playing in the right territory.

The new finds and combinations sound like they'll broaden your options and give you a bit of that "new" feeling most of us need to keep from zzzzzzzzzzz when we're playing it safer with work clothes. [I bet you'll find you can swap a few things in or out to have a little more fun with the teaching outfits.]

Knock 'em dead with your presentation content!

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Though I am not in this particular work situation I found the discussion very interesting since I must also dress for very different presentations and really haven't thought through a proper capsule for that part of my life.

Diana

Veteran

At the medical school where I work (as a postdoc) I see all the younger female professors (medical and basic sciences) wearing some variation of the skirt+tall boots look this year, so I think that should be a perfectly safe and acceptable combination. For example, I recently went to a panel discussion on the academic job search and all the female panelists were wearing solid color fitted sweater + knee length skirt + black or brown tall boots. (It was still fall weather then.) ETA: I see both heeled and flat (riding style) boots.

As for the skinny pants I think it depends on how they fit. My martin skinnies personally fit pretty tightly (like skinny jeans) so I'm not sure they would be appropriate, but I have seen other ladies here wear them looser (like more of a trouser fit, skimming rather than cupping the butt), which I think would be OK.