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Chiming in against the tide

Adelfa

Veteran

A pair of Thistle's posts got me thinking. She had posted a k/r for two print dresses, and in the first post there was a healthy majority who preferred dress #1. Her second post showed the dresses "winterized," and now #2 was the winner. In the comments to the second post, Echo said something that really resonated with me:

"I didn't reply to the first K/R post on these dresses because my opinion was out of synch with everyone else's, and when that happens I generally think my eye is off."

Yes! I am very hesitant to voice an alternate opinion if the consensus is building the other way. I think I realize that the forum is mature and gracious enough to handle my disagreeing with them, so I don't think it's fear of conflict that's holding me back. I think it's more fear that I will reveal myself as a person with little taste and discernment!

But if enough of us do this, it means that if the first few opinions on a post happen to be similar, then the rest of the forum might not want to state another point of view, and then the original poster will lose out on potentially useful feedback!

I know some forum members are perfectly comfortable stating their opinion for what it's worth. Are you willing to comment against the tide? Why or why not?

Thistle's posts:
http://youlookfab.com/welookfa.....red-by-lyn
http://youlookfab.com/welookfa.....winterized

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34 replies

Latest reply was from annaj

catgirl

Veteran

I am absolutely willing to comment against the tide. If I have a true poison eye for a look, I may not comment because what is the point of saying "I don't like this but I never will like it"? Otherwise, I do. At times, I'm nervous to be the first response, just because it feels like going out on a limb, but it's more important to me to give feedback if the person has asked for it.

I also feel like forum members who participate on a lot of levels (WIW, K/R, etc.) establish themselves so that posters can take their advice accordingly. For example, if a very classic dresser dislikes an outfit I post, that may not sway me quite as much as if someone more aligned with my style finds it off. But I value ALL comments and critique tremendously because I know it's not easy to do for many people.

Does that make sense?

bj1111

Veteran

i often feel this way on the wiw so i refrain. but on the k/r, i chime in just in case there are other similar opinions. i don't want the op wasting money if the nays are not represented and she gets a one-sided view.

MNsara

Veteran

Sometimes I'll speak against the tide, but I *think* I'm more likely to
1) question my own discernment and not voice my thoughts, or
2) I might feel that my preferences aren't in line with the poster's and that probably colours my opinion, so I don't voice my thoughts.

It's interesting to me when a thread starts out prefering something, a lone dissenter speaks up, and the thread starts veering. Makes me wonder if it's human nature at play, or . . . ?! But I ALWAYS love hearing everyone's thoughts and ideas and critiques!

Clearly, honing in on our style is not an exact science

Suz

(website)

Veteran

What an excellent topic!

In my first year on this forum, I definitely held back from voicing dissenting views when I felt differently from the majority. For exactly the reasons you mentioned. I didn't trust my own judgement. I had reason to distrust it, too. I hadn't been paying a jot of attention to fashion for about 20 years. I had a lot of learning to do and my eyes needed plenty of adjustment. But I learned so much from the brave people who put themselves out there in WIW and K/R threads and I was am everlastingly grateful!

Now, there are times when I hesitate to be the first poster when my first impressions are less than 100% positive. But as long as I've had a chance to weigh my words, I'll jump in (whether first or later).

Particularly on K/R threads, I feel comfortable giving my honest views. Always for what they are worth, of course!

Because I've posted a lot of WIW, K/R, and other threads over the past few years, most forum regulars have a pretty good idea of my style preferences. So I think their advice usually reflects their knowledge of ME -- and I value that. I also think they recognize where I'm coming from.

If I have a poison eye (or a sugar eye) for a particular look and feel it might cloud my judgement, I say so. At this point, I have also read enough posts that I have a pretty clear conception of what various people on the forum are aiming for or hoping for in their style, and I try to comment with that in mind.

If I don't feel I know the poster's style well enough to be definitive, I say so and sometimes ask for clarification. I am open to lots of styles that are different from my own (and seriously enjoy seeing them on others) so I don't worry that my judgements are coloured by thoughts only about what I would wear or wouldn't wear.

But Echo's point is well-taken. I think we all tend to do this at times -- back off when we would be going against the tide - simply because it might take a long time to formulate our reasons for disagreement and doing so would only seem courteous in the circumstances.

I think most of of are subliminally aware that this can happen and keep it in mind as we weigh over the responses to our outfits.

In the end, what matters most is how we personally FEEL in any outfit.

Kalli

Since I am new to YLF, I did chime in on the K/R, and I wasn't in the majority for the winterized item. I don't believe you have bad taste if you prefer something one way vs something someone else likes. If we all agreed on everything then we'd all be wearing exactly the same things and styles. Fashion is fun, and having worked in rag trade for a short while myself I believe it's better to voice your opinion and explain why you like or dislike instead of having unhappy customers. Utimately this forum doesn't make the final decision if you decide you like something or not. It is about personal style after all.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Adelfa, your thoughts are understandable. Differing opinions can be very helpful - but too many cooks spoil the broth. There is also great responsibility expected from the poster to FILTER the responses. I can't stress that point enough.

- DO go against the tide but be respectful about your opinion and state the rationale behind your reason. Be constructive and kind. No need to be tackless and rude.

- Be very aware when you have poison eye for the look. Someone should not be made to feel bad about something they love just because you have poison eye. It happens all the time in fashion - people LOVE a look that you loathe because it's an extremely subjective topic. No one expects you to like a look you just can't like! Just be aware that things are subjective.

- If the poster is not looking for constructive feedback, do not offer it. Focus on something that you like about the outfit and leave it at that.

- Do not be worried about commenting first on a thread. Just comment!

- Some people find it hard to judge a style or look that is outside their own style preferences. This is very common, somewhat understandable, and it just is what it is. You must remember that when you read feedback comments.

If you post your own outfits, we get a better sense of your style and they do give context to your opinion. It's a little harder to attribute weight to a judging comment when we've never seen your outfits.

cheryle (Dianthus)

(website)

Veteran

I too have a tendency to not swim against the tide if there have been a significant number of posts already. I am most likely to not comment in this situation if I am not supportive of the look. I don't feel good about giving negative feedback unless I have a concrete basis for it and often it is just "off" to my eye. If there have been a lot of positive responses, I usually attribute this to personal preference.

I, too, will qualify a response by saying that I am a bit on the conservative side or slow to adopt some trends.

Very interesting topic.

Adelfa

Veteran

Hi Angie, thanks for the terrific guidelines. I want to clarify that I'm not necessarily describing a situation where the "against the tide" comment is a negative and the majority responses are positive. For instance in Thistle's post, there were two dresses to choose from, and the choice of one over the other was neutral. Or it could be the other way around--the forum is gently and tactfully steering the op away from a look, when I think it looks great!

But still, the case where we're offering less than positive feedback is the touchiest one and the one where we need to be the most careful, so all of your guidelines are incredibly helpful.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Sorry, Adelfa! I never actually answered your question.

You know the answer though. I respectfully swim against the tide because my role here is to help and find solutions. I am not being helpful if I agreed with everything no matter what - but we always find solutions!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

We posted at the same time. HAHAHAHA!!!!

Quite right, and I see your points 100%.

CocoLion

(website)

Veteran

I like hearing differing opinions. Also when people just come out and state that this isn't their style or that they have a poison eye towards x, so would rather not comment (which is of course making a pretty big statement itself but I'm ok with it).

So I would rather hear something than not hear an opinion at all. That is why I leave a comment 99% of the time. The only reason I don't, is because I am too tired to say anything. That's when it's time to close the laptop.

In Thistle's case, one dress looked better as a summer dress, the other one worked better winterized, it was the one that had a blacker read. The summery one had a whiter read, although both were patterned b&w. Moreover, the chance element in photography is a HUGE factor.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Denise, I just adore your outlook on life. You are rational, respectful, succinct, and in touch with your emotions - and our emotions. AMAZING. Such great extra points.

Adelfa, I forgot to add that although I am a fashion professional and this is our forum, my word is not the last. At the end of the day it's just an opinion like everyone else. You are always free to take or leave my opinion.

Btw! I preferred dress #2 on Thistle's thread from the start. Which was going against the tide.

Anonymous

Ok. so I could certainly write a 1,000 page manifest on this topic. However, and along with my goals of better reading comprehension and conciseness, I would attempt brevity. I think I have and will continue to offer my straightforward opinion because:

a- No one is asking me for my opinion on whether one should go forward with life saving, separating surgery of their conjoined twins, a.k.a. is not that serious. I anticipate everyone will survive my "polite dissent".

and

b- I am not Anna Wintour or Miranda Priesly, hence do not have the power or knowledge to alter entire collections upon one nod of my head. What I am providing is my humble, uneducated opinion, again, not that serious.

and

c- In all honestly, as much as we like to yak away, the only expert here is Angie. As such, all opinions should be considered amateur at best. No offense to anyone but since I think all opinions, excluding Angie's, are of equal weight, I am not going to make it or break it.

and

d- I certainly appreciate anyone who takes a few minutes of their day to post anything on my threads. On that note, as far as I'm concerned, please, please if you ever think against the tide on any of my stuff, please reply to that extent. That goes to anyone else too.

and ETA: Don't discount yourself from posting because you think you are not qualified enough. Most people on this site have very simple everyday lives and as such, are being judged and evaluated by people, who might not know zilch about fashion. I am actually quite interested in the opinions of those who are not that in tune with fashion and trends. I want to look OK for the normal folk, who is not reading Elle and checking Blogger every night.

Lastly, I did not achieve brevity @HAHAHA@

Atlantia

Veteran

This is a wonderful thread!
I often feel like the WIWs I've posted have received an overwhelmingly positive outlook, and I didn't find it constructive. I began rewording asking for feedback, and began finding them more helpful. Then my dress code changed, and WIW was less fun, so I haven't been doing them.
Anyway...I usually have no issue going against the tide. Dissenting but respectful opinions are why I love this community.

Transcona Shannon

Veteran

This is a fantastic thread Adelfa! Personally, I still don't feel confident or knowledgeable to go against the tide most of the time. Often if I'm later in responding and all of the other responses are one way and I'm thinking the other, I won't respond because I think that my "style eye" is just off on that particular item or outfit.

But if I feel strongly enough about it, I will respectfully reply against the group.

jayne

Veteran

I have a tendency to reply first and read the other people replies after, unless there are a gazillion and then I usually don't reply.

This helps me be true to my own opinion and when I am negative to a look I try to always state this is my taste maybe, or the photo, or not meant as a criticism. I know it is very hard to be always clear and I don't want to hurt any feelings.

But I enjoy the community very much and like to read other replies to see how others think. Some have ideas or see things in such a way that opens my eyes. That is fun!

Gaylene

Veteran

Personally I think it is hard to go against the tide. While I admire forum members who do provide comments that go against the majority, it's easier not to participate than to run the risk of inadvertently hurting someone's feelings. I guess I rationalize my behavior by telling myself that the person is unlikely to be swayed by my opposing opinion if the majority of the responses are leaning one way.

RoseandJoan

Veteran

'To thine own self be true'

Every persons opinion counts. When I post looking for feedback I use it as opportunity to see how my style may be viewed on the street. All of those people who eyes see but whose voices you do not hear. Therefore a variety of differing opionions is usually what I seek.

Adelfa

Veteran

Gaylene: this is the other thing I'm petrified of! I SO don't want to hurt people's feelings. And it can be so hard--I know what I meant when I wrote it, but the chance word choice can be taken in quite another way. Plus people don't necessarily know me well enough around here to give me the benefit of the doubt. Although as a forum, I see the benefit of the doubt being extended routinely.

R&J, Jayne, Atlantia, Zap, Coco--I too welcome different opinions. I have recently passed on a couple of items because of fabber feedback. And I often see the op say "Thank you" when a different view is posted. I'm agreeing with Angie and atlantia that the forum tends to refrain from giving anything but a positive opinion if you don't ask for feedback. And that's not so bad--I lurked for about a year, too petrified to post photos. When I finally did it felt so good to have people say nice things. But fairly quickly I moved on to wanting feedback about how to make my outfits better.

Shannon, dianthus, Kalli, Suz, Sara, bj, Una--thanks for sharing your perspective as commenters. What I'm seeing is that all of us want to be very careful! I also think that fabbers who've been around longer have grown in their confidence to state their opinion in a good way.

An idea--could it be a learning experience to say, "20 of you see this and I see that for these reasons, probably I'm missing something but I'm not sure what!" and then if anyone felt like it, they could try to explain the disconnect. That would be interesting for me.

Angie, I know you post against the tide! And you even seem apologetic when you shouldn't IMO! And I know it would be totally fine with you for me to disagree with you:)

Mochi

Veteran

(Disclaimer that I jumped straight to this comment without reading others' responses)

I am not afraid to leave an outlier opinion. But I have to admit that once Angie chimes in one way or other, I feel like I was "wrong" if I had a different preference. I know I shouldn't feel this way but it's inevitable....

Caro in Oz

Veteran

I want honesty too - or maybe I want constructive criticism . I don't see the point in saying I don't like something unless I can give reasons why I don't. I also want to do this in a polite & kind way.

It is hard when everyone else is saying wonderful things about something when I see something off with the fit or colour or whatever. Whether I voice my opinion or not depends on a number of factors; the person who posted, how much time I have & to some extend how I'm feeling.

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

If the poster seems really set and excited about a particular option or isn't looking for feedback then I refrain. Otherwise, I offer my honest opinion of what I see, regardless of other's responses (but, I do like when Angie agrees with me, I admit it!). I just think the forum is more interesting when there are lots of opinions, including my own. If we all agreed all the time it would be pretty boring and not very diverse!

Adelfa

Veteran

Caro, it's so true that a decision to weigh in on the other side is based on a number of factors!

Jenava, definitely, if a poster is really excited then it's our role to share the joy! Or remain silent. There's always enough to like to keep us busy.

Deborah

Veteran

I try to operate with Angie's guidelines in mind. I have no trouble sharing a differing opinion on a post. I do think the important thing is to understand the posters style and style goals and not try to impose my style own style preferences. Very very occasionally I may find I just don't "get" an outfit and I may refrain from commenting purely because I don't feel I have anything meaningful to contribute.

Adelfa

Veteran

Deborah, I love one of the threads that's running through this conversation--that we try to comment from a point of view of understanding the other's style goals. That is precious feedback indeed!

cciele

Veteran

I also like to see varying opinions--fashion is so subjective. but it definitely helps to be sensitive as to the kind of feedback the OP want.

Anonymous

I just had a chance to read all of the responses and I'm curious, are we talking about K/Rs or in general? Just to clarify, my answer only applies to K/Rs. For other areas, yes, I agree one must be mindful of what the poster wants. I just think that generally speaking a K/R is quite obvious as to intention.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

I try to give honest yet tactful feedback and really enjoy the same when I post. I sometimes don't respond when there are tons of responses I agree with - I feel I have nothing to add. I do find it easier to give feedback to posters whom I "know" better since I have a better idea of their style and what sort of feedback they will appreciate.

Jjsloane

Veteran

I am probably not anyone's favorite, because I think I am often the odd voice out. I do try to preface any inputs that are the result of my own poison eye and provide commentary in a neutral - it's just not my taste. I appreciate the same honesty from others.

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