Brands or stores that seem to value fairness and decency? - YouLookFab Forum

Category

Shopping

Welcome! Read about what to wear and how to wear it on the YLF Blog. Join the YLF Forum to ask specific questions or just chat about fashion and personal style. Or check out the curated list of things we love in YLF Finds.

Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

Brands or stores that seem to value fairness and decency?

April

Veteran

It has become more important to me lately to exercise what is sometimes called "the power of the purse" -- to buy from companies who value fairness and decency (in addition to providing great fashion and fine workmanship, naturally!)

So I am wondering, because you are a thoughtful group of shoppers, what companies people prefer to support on these grounds?

No need to mention the ones you won't support -- just trying to keep our peaceful community peaceful -- though anyone should feel free to PM me with your thoughts on that topic.

Shopping

67 replies

Latest reply was from BlondeAmbition

Anonymous

Me too, April! In fact I was considering a post on this and so glad you started this thread.

My first experience with conscious shopping was in the 80s or 90s when I learned that LL Bean opposed a woman's right to choose. I even wrote to the company -- this was back in the day when people still wrote letters ;). I got a very courteous reply (back in the day when people still responded) to the effect that the president's policy wasn't the company policy and all pro-life donations came from her pocket. Well, that was still my money lining her pocket.

I also boycott Anthropologie, which is known in my area for supporting principles I don't believe in. Two weeks ago I decided not to buy the cutest pair of Ivanka Trump flats. In both cases, I know people who worked for the companies and they confirm that what I've heard is true, and Mr Trump's beliefs on immigration are public knowledge (I am an immigrant). Last week, when my car died, DH suggested a VW because they are highly rated and I refused to consider it because of how badly they lied on the diesel issue. I also try not to buy from Amazon or other large companies whose business plans are to monopolise.

I do try to support small independent businesses or large companies who aim to do good in the world--places like Costco who believe in paying employees a living wage. Big companies have immense power to do good--like Walmart's attempts to become more green, but they can also do damage, like not treating employees well.

Like Gaylene, I had conflicting feelings about Kit and Ace given their association with the Lululemon founder, and now that I know more about them I am returning the scarf I bought (I already wore the Mulberry pants, which bagged out at the knees, despite that being one of the sales points I was given!)

I do think it's important to try to confirm reports of company practices, and sometimes a bad reputation outlives the practice--I still haven't bought from LL Bean, though I'm guessing their practices have changed. But maybe that's a warning to companies like VW who think consumers have short memories.

The good news is, in this era of social media, it is hard for companies to hide.

ETA: Oops, I just read your comment about not mentioning names. Please let me know if you want me to take this down. I do want to add that I am not trying to be preachy or influence people. I never judge anyone who shops where I don't --I know Angie and others shop at Anthropologie and I (honestly) think it's great. This is all about personal choice, and my beliefs are my own. I am also sure there are Trump supporters on the forum and have no wish to alienate them. Our next-door neighbours are supporters of his and we are close friends who have some wonderfully vibrant discussions. They respect my beliefs and I learn a tremendous amount from them. That's how politics should be.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

I think this is interesting, and I always feel like I should pay more attention to this. I have conflicted feelings about Lululemon -- I think the owner is a d-bag, and knowing that he's also behind Kit & Ace turns me off, especially with the sizing issues. But I like some Lululemon designs enough that I make an occasional purchase from them.

Not a fan of American Apparel because of Dov Charney as well. Even though he's out of there now, I've never shopped with them anyway.

I admit I have turned quite sour on anything with an Ivanka Trump label. Not that I had ever bought anything from that line before, but now I actually feel repulsed when I see something cute and realize the Trump name is on it.

In general, I prefer to support smaller businesses and local shops when possible.

April

Veteran

Janet and Aliona, I don't think you've said anything overly provocative or disrespectful. We all have our own values and preferences; it seems to me that the main thing is to express our differences civilly.

I know there are lots of companies to avoid, and some I probably should avoid but don't. What about The Good Guys? Who are they? I would love to know that.

Anonymous

Thank you for starting this thread, April. I will be watching.
I think Eileen Fisher tries to be ethical and environmentally friendly. I think her shoes at least used to be made in Italy of Italian leather. I have two pair and they have held up wonderfully with constant summer wear with bare feet.

Sadie

Toms shoes- good guy?

Anonymous

I agree with Joy on EF. I think she at least tries to walk a balance between ethics and profit. I was moving away from this brand a year or so ago but got on board again because of her position.

I feel it can be harder to identify the good guys because we can never really know (unless we have someone on the inside) whether a brand's marketing claims match reality. I'm very interested in learning about the good guys too. As you can tell from my screed above, I am running out of shopping options

April

Veteran

It's true that the "good guys" are only good until we learn about something that makes them not good. That's okay -- we all have to work off the information that's available.

JAileen

Veteran

Thank you for this thread. It's very interesting. Please continue to name names.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Thank you, April. Good thread. I'd like to reiterate that people stay respectful in their comments.

Aliona, I don't understand your boycott of Anthroppolgie, but would like to.

There is only one brand that I do not support and it's designer Dolce & Gabbana. (I'm uncomfortable sharing why on the forum).

I think a lot about this, and am still very conflicted. If the product is good, does it really matter what the philosophies of management are? Inappropriate comments, bigotry, and rudeness are one thing - absolutely NOT okay - but no one or animal is getting physically hurt. There is also something to be said for supporting the people that work at the company who are regular decent people trying to earn an honest living. And as Aliona and April mentioned, it's very hard identifying the good guys. As I already said, I am very conflicted about this.

I am also very conflicted about fast fashion because H&M is one of the most sustainable retailers in the world. Ironic.

Anonymous

It's easier to confidently identify companies who support ideals, policies and practices that I don't like because something specific has triggered my reaction. Starting with the assumption that companies are "good" it takes something "bad" for me to stop buying from them.
But lack of negative experience isn't proof of goodness. I could recommend business for customer service, etc., but I haven't researched the companies I buy from well enough to promote them as fair or decent.

Anonymous

I am conflicted too. But really interested in the subject and have been known to get a little too invested in some of my personal dislikes. (curious about Anthro too). As Angie , or someone, mentioned in the K &A thread yesterday, I bet we could find someone at the top of almost every company/factory/marketing team that would cause us to think twice about patronizing that same company.

The good guys? Anyone manufacturing locally , using sustainable resources, fair wage/fair trade practices. Neon Buddha in Canada is one, Toms is another (as mentioned above). Eileen Fisher, yes. What I would like to see are tags on clothes that identify these points to help us as consumers make more informed choices. A lot of our boycotting decisions are based on anecdotal information , and how much is accurate?

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Lisa, I'm nodding along to everything you said.

Also, as someone who worked in retail for a long time as a fashion buyer, I see things from both angles. I am on the side of the consumer, but I am empathetic and realistic about retail, and try to bring that knowledge to YLF.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I have heard that Tom's 'buy one give one' policy is actually damaging to disadvantaged economies - the local market is flooded with shoes and local shoemakers lose their jobs. Which is an example of how complex these issues get, i suppose - what are your ultimate priorities and can any large company ever meet all standards all the time?

I'm a little disappointed to read about LL Bean but not too surprised - they're still a private, closely held family company, so the Bean family can choose to do whatever they want. I am currently taking a break from Lands End because of their handling of the Gloria Steinem situation, although I don't rule out shopping them in the future.

I also choose not to buy from Anthro/Urban Outfitters, and Forever 21 (donations to prolife groups and far right groups; also opposition to marriage equality, iirc, and general skeeviness - Anthro/uo are frequently seen to be 'borrowing' designs from small artisans without credit) Also Lululemon and Kit & Ace (they hate fat people anyway, so it's not like it's hard) and ivanka Trump now. American Apparel finally got rid of its sketchy founder but their products aren't really in my demographic or size anyway.

I honestly don't know if you can participate in today's multinational retail environment without doing something that somebody thinks is inadvisable. We've talked before about ethical production, organic fiber production, living wages, etc., and all of that increases your costs to a point that most consumers won't currently tolerate. And the political stuff is personal and not really unethical in the same sense - others may be flocking to buy Ivanka Trump right now.

Ok, some positivity - Patagonia are pretty awesome. They use a lot of organic and fairly sourced stuff, they are transparent about origins, they recycle worn out items and have a lifetime guarantee. They're supposed to be a great employer and actually walk the talk. I think a lot of the new direct-to-consumer outfits have promise - MM LaFleur, Nisolo, Everlane, Grana, Tradlands. And there are a ton of brands doing organic cotton and/or stuff made in factories with living wages. There's also the made in USA stuff (not that keeps a company from being sketchy in other ways).

Anonymous

I have been boycotting Zara for about 3 or 4 years, due to their ghastly environmental record. I think after intense pressure they are slowly cleaning up their act, but I still can't bring myself to shop there. I can't seem to bring myself to shop at Walmart, either. I went once, and went on a guilt trip afterwards. The old saying "Behind every great fortune is a great crime" is always in the back of my mind, and makes me a little suspicious of all megaretailers. The politics of the owners isn't as much of a concern for me, as long as they aren't oppressing their workers or laying waste to the environment, or otherwise being unethical if not downright illegal. Thanks for this fascinating thread!

RoseandJoan

Veteran

At the budget end I really appreciate the efforts H&M are making to reduce waste.

BrieN

Veteran

Under the heading of Fairness and Decency- I wanted to take a moment and mention Nordstroms. I know they don't manufacture goods so a different yardstick, but I have had just incredible customer service from them -- in person and on the phone. The kind of customer service that exceeds my expectations.

Helena

Veteran

I just want to see that I have researched this topic and fund it head-spinningly complex! The Tom's example is a great one, where at a glance it seems great, but when you dig deeper, it's more nuanced. The "buy local" movement is another one that has pros and cons, as well as others I won't get into because I think that could start a debate in itself! think someone mentioned that if there is a particular issue you are interested in, then you could focus in on companies adressing that issue (or avoid those working against it), but I suspect it would be virtually impossible to classify any company as wholly good or bad, sadly
Another way to exercise your consumer power is the write/Facebook/tweet your favorite companies to let them know you value ethics and would like to know more about their ethical practices. If companies know their customers value ethical practices, they may be more inclined to invest in this area. Just a thought

April

Veteran

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts.

I will say that I believe companies who make most of their money from women (buying either for ourselves or on behalf of our families) bear a special burden to demonstrate public support for women.

I choose not to patronize any company willing to express contempt for women, either via their corporate actions or the statements of their spokespeople.

Seems like it's not that hard in the US to figure out what people and/or companies "really" said and did. There are plenty of legitimate news sources around that still verify quotations.

Gaylene

Veteran

I agree with Angie, and the rest of the commenters, that it's hard to slap "good guy" and "bad guy" labels on companies, so I'm always doubtful about consumer boycotts unless there is clear evidence to support that kind of response.

BUT, I also think companies are extremely sensitive about their brand image, especially on social media. I think holding companies accountable by putting a spotlight on bad practices and ill-mannered comments can be beneficial for both parties. Smart companies have the opportunity to enhance their image when they refuse to condone unsavory behaviour and consumers don't have to rationalize, or ignore, situations which make buying the products uncomfortable.

RoseandJoan

Veteran

Not sure if these are available in the US but I have just bought a pair of Solillas which are designed in the UK but handmade by a small family owned Menorcan factory. Unbelievable comfortable straight out of the box.
http://www.solillas.com/
I have these http://m.office.co.uk/view/pro.....1980390201

This post has 1 photo. Photos uploaded by this member are only visible to other logged in members.

If you aren't a member, but would like to participate, please consider signing up. It only takes a minute and we'd love to have you.

LaPed

Veteran

Apparel companies I feel fairly good supporting: Patagonia, Prana, Nau, Alternative Apparel, Ibex, Eileen Fisher, Pact Organic (for basic cotton undergarments), Zady, maybe Everlane. I do a fair amount of Etsy browsing and eBaying. I mostly stick to locally run thrift stores rather than Goodwill/SA. For denim there are lots of small independent US-based designer/producers really changing the face of designer jeans -- I'd buy from them if I had more $.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Great thread, April. I am learning heaps. I admit to being guilty of shopping at Kit and Ace (I was under the apparently mistaken impression that it was not the Lulu guy behind it although I knew there was a family connection). And also at Zara, where the "low" half of my wardrobe seems to come from. Sigh.

It seems there are so many factors to consider and then you also have to be realistic about your own ability to fit certain lines or pay for them. I hope others pipe up with more "good guys." I could use that info.

rabbit

Veteran

I agree (and believe) that companies have the capacity to change for the better, and consumer pressure through social media or activist campaigns is most of what drives them to change. For example H&M's record on waste and worker safety/wages wasn't spotless in the past, that was publicized, and they made some changes - I find that really heartening.

I feel conflicted about it to, because with the price points I'm working with, I'm often attracted to the fast fashion retailers for the most contemporary shapes. I can try to selectively choose items and care for fast fashion so it lasts a long time and gets heavy wear, but that still doesn't address the way it was created (or what the money supports based on the lobbying contributions of the founders as Laura points out). I really appreciate these threads because they can make me think twice before buying and help me alter habits.

Some places to buy that are pretty good guys or support local workers/makers -

-A lot of the outdoor gear companies, as Laura points out - Patagonia, Timberland, I think the North Face?

-Etsy (if it really is an independent artisan, they have started to blur the line) and local craftspeople at craft/art fairs. Good for jewelry, scarves, bags in particular.

-Local small designers, and bag makers, and graphic t-shirt printers (If you live in a bigger city, someone is making messenger bags and bike bags locally and screen-printing tees).

Buying second hand - no additional use of resources in manufacturing and little in transportation with brick and mortar stores. Keeping clothes out of landfills:

-Goodwill (employment and job training for people with disabilities and veterans), other charity shops. There are some watchdog criticisms of Goodwill, but some of them are based on inaccurate info, and some are contested by different advocacy groups -- It seems to be complicated, but I agree smaller local charity shops probably are a good alternative.

-Buying second-hand from locally owned (usually women owned) consignment shops and buy/trade/resell shops targeted at young people.

In general I look up a company on wikipedia if I'm curious about their record, it's quick and revealing.

Sal

Veteran

It can be a trade off between
- price
- stylings and sizes available (ethical plus size?)
- local vs offshore manufacture
- new vs second hand
- organic fabrics or not
- quality of manufacture

I have a few local boutiques that I love to support. I have a friend who sews clothes that I also support. I buy some items second hand. I try to wear my clothes out OR donate them in good condition early. But only last week I ordered two Lululemon pieces online which should arrive today. I was not aware of the controversy around the owner of that store.
And I have my share of sports gear that may be produced in sweatshops - I don't know it is, but I don't know it is not.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

BrieN and Jules, thanks for your positive comments. I appreciated them.

Gaylene, high five.

rabbit, you're fab.

Suz, you're fab too, but please don't feel guilty! Kit & Ace makes a good product - which has nothing to do with Chip's ridiculous comments.

Also, there is a lot to admire about Zara. More than 80% of the company is run by women, and has been since its inception. THAT is incredible in our male dominated world. Plus they never advertise, and are the most successful chain store of all time. They also run a very vertical supply chain - which no other retailer can boast.

I can't think of a company that delivers better customer service than Amazon. Truly. It's sublime, and they keep on getting better.

April

Veteran

If you have the patience to read a thoughtful piece on the economics of the "sweatshop" question, Paul Krugman wrote an interesting one for Slate in 1997:
http://www.slate.com/articles/.....labor.html

And then revisited the question in the NY Times in 2013: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c.....hops/?_r=0

rabbit

Veteran

Thanks April, those are interesting reads. I agree with Paul about the 'Gilded Age' thing too and Sauron amassing forces at home.

Nebraskim

Veteran

I think the shoe company Inkkas has fair policies toward workers (from Peru). They also say they plant trees in the rain forest, so that's a plus.

rabbit

Veteran

I did a little more reading and I saw Zady being mentioned as ethical fast fashion in other places as well. But with this as their sale prices: https://zady.com/sale/women's-sale I wouldn't categorize them with fast fashion at all, but rather a boutique brand with Nordstrom prices. Good on them for though for offering ethical clothing with contemporary shapes, and they have some interesting articles on various aspects of ethical fashion.

12 3