Ask Angie and all: How much shoulder pad "overhang" is acceptable/do you tolerate? - YouLookFab Forum

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Ask Angie and all: How much shoulder pad "overhang" is acceptable/do you tolerate?

unfrumped

Veteran

I always seem to have a problem with jacket (typically blazer type) shoulder fit. I think it's because I have a narrow but somewhat square shoulder line, and not enough deltoids!
First have to balance shoulder, chest and hip and those modern skinny armholes-- a tall order, because if I size down too much for the shoulder area, everything else pulls.
A slight shoulder pad works well for me, and straight shoulder lines, more so than cocoon-y styles. But, if the shoulder padding is "sharp", meaning has a straight-edged pad lined up at the seam, the slightest overhang makes those shoulder dents--sometimes even if no overhang but lined up with my shoulder bone edge. So the best shoulder pads are those that are very minimal and are slightly rounded over the edge--not very common.
It's pretty easy to see when things are WAY off with major overhang--haha, I can sure tell it on other people-- but I've about given up on the perfect, "invisible" shoulder edge; especially with movement--things look fine maybe with military posture but then when you move arms, get that shoulder dent going.

Solutions are:
--more lateral deltoid raises
--no-pad jackets
--change shoulder pads--something I find difficult in terms of finding the exact fit for the jacket, and also expense, if lined
--identify some amount of acceptable dent/overhang--maybe I'm too sensitive and there's always some? I'm not talking about those linebacker looks.

Any guidelines or practical approaches appreciated.

Dressing

19 replies

Latest reply was from Suz

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Unfrumped, could you provide a close-up picture of the fit challenge on jackets? I am struggling to visualize exactly what you mean.

I have narrow but square shoulders too (they do not slope at all), and my challenge is that I sometimes battle to find a cut narrow enough to fit my shoulder frame. I can't fill out the jacket so to speak. Hence me and '80s shoulder pads LOVED each other.

Soooo, that's why I'm back to requesting a visual so that I can help you with the nitty gritty.

unfrumped

Veteran

Okay, I will get some pics. Thank you.

catgirl

Veteran

I know EXACTLY what you mean and I have the same problem. But because my shoulders are bulky, I feel like they are shoulder pads in themselves, thus displacing the pads when the fabric can not accommodate that. And then I get the outline of the shoulder pad showing from the side, like an upside down U with a hollow concave dent. It drives me mad. I too prefer a shoulder pad that cups over the shoulder, rather than one that lines up with the shoulder seam, for this very reason.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I am totally confused and not able to visualize any of this. Yikes!!

Anonymous

Surprisingly I'm actually finding this to be an excellent description even without images.

This kind of alteration can be expensive and often is never quite right I think you need to identify a manufacturer that cuts shoulders you like, or go for different styles, like Chanel type jackets or any very constructed knitted jackets.

Anonymous

Well.....I am built a little like this too - very square shoulders (thank you , years of weight training) and have pretty decent lats and delta too but the shoulders themselves are not wide. The wrong shoulder pad can ruin the line of a sleeve, can't it? You should be able to go inside the lining of a jacket (by opening a seam somewhere) and trim down the shoulder pad itself, removing that extra thickness right at your shoulder point. I used to modify a lot of things that way when I was a big-time home sewer.

unfrumped

Veteran

So Una nailed it. Every so often I find a maker that uses pads with a tiny "cupped" overhang that tapers the shoulder pad onto the deltoids better and minimizes the transition from shoulder to arm.

Pic 1 looks like about "ideal" (for me) not being able to see much outline of a shoulder pad.
Pic 2 shows how with thinner fabrics it hugs the arm and the shoulder pad sticks ot a bit.
Pic 3 is more exaggerated--here I think the pad is thicker so raises the shoulder more--I try to avoid those.
Pic 4 is maybe fairly ordinary overhang with arm movement but I'm very sensitive to there being too much of that and it looking like the shoulder pads are too big for me.
I've not shown any horrible linebacker pics because I know to avoid those.

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Suz

(website)

Veteran

I think we are using "square" in different ways.

Angie means it as making a T shape on the body. (I think)

This can be a wide or narrow(ish) T. From the front. It is the opposite of having sloping shoulders.

A person can have depth in the shoulder arm area while still have a sloped shoulder line.

Or a person can have a square shoulder line that is (sideways) rather narrow -- this describes me. No amount of weight training will build my arm/ shoulder/ back muscles enough to make them truly "broad" or "deep." But my shoulders are very square across. (My shoulder measurement is about 39" around -- but it's mostly horizontal.

This is where we get back to that elliptical vs. whatever discussion.

Anyway -- Lisa, it sounds like I am the opposite of you. Wide shoulders but not deep.

unfrumped

Veteran

I'm referring to the degree to which you can distinguish the outline or edges of the shoulder pad while sleeve fabric collapses back onto the arm. Basically I have a low tolerance for it, but that becomes a limiting factor that maybe I should balance more against other good factors.

barbaraq

As a sewist, I would say pics 1, 2 and 3 have very squared off shoulder lines as a style element. If you don't care for that, it would be hard and foolish to try to change it.

I think what you are aiming for is a softer shoulder line where the pad is small and has a rounded off armhole edge. Sometimes these are called raglan shoulder pads for that reason.

I have wide, squared shoulders (which I bless as I grow older) so try to use the smallest pad when tailoring a jacket for myself. But you really do need SOMETHING for the jacket to hang from, otherwise the weight of the garment will pull downwards around your armholes and soon look more like a sweater.

catgirl

Veteran

It is so wonderful to have someone else who understands this pet peeve of mine, which is so SPECIFIC! It's like my shoulder pushes the pad up and out, so that the sleeve fabric collapses inward, like the top of a little covered wagon. I had to get rid of a Helmut Lang jacket for this reason - see below for illustration.

The square issue is not neck-to-shoulder, it's shoulder-to-arm. I feel like if your arm is not exactly straight up and down, you will have this problem. If your arm is too bulky, the shoulder pad gets pushed out, and if your arm is too scrawny, it doesn't take up the fabric.

I am going to find images that show the different types of shoulder pad inserts and what seems to work best.

http://youlookfab.com/welookfa.....zer-size-4

unfrumped

Veteran

Barbara's, that is so on point, in that I used to use removable teardrop shaped shoulder pads in sweaters long ago because they were " forgiving" and so would adapt to different sleeves. For jackets, I do want a pretty square shouldef and not a full- on raglan look, but that shoulder pad can soften the
line.
Woo- hoo. Una, circle the covered wagons--I'm okay/you're okay!

Gaylene

Veteran

What you need is a jacket that has a sleevehead as well as a shoulder pad. The sleevehead used to be common in tailored jackets but is rare today because it is an easy cost-cutting element to leave out.

Sleeveheads help structure the armhole of a jacket and prevent the cap of the sleeve from collapsing or dimpling. They are usually made from a scrap of flannel or fleece and stitched to the top of the armhole seam before the shoulder pad is attached. The width of the sleevehead varies depending on how much support the fabric requires and how the sleeve falls from the shoulder. I've attached a picture--the white portion is the sleevehead.

Any old-school, reputable tailor wouldn't have a problem constructing and inserting a sleevehead into the jacket sleeve of a lined jacket. It's not a difficult sewing task; the problem, though, might be finding someone who actually understands how to tailor a jacket.

ETA: A very similar technique is used to pad the upper chest area between the lapel and the sleeve for women who have a "hollow" between the upper bust and the shoulder that causes jackets to dimple in this area.

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catgirl

Veteran

Gaylene! That's just it. Helmut Lang doesn't get this?!?

Gaylene

Veteran

It's so stupid to omit this tiny piece in a $600 designer jacket, it makes me furious at manufacturers (and designers!) who think women won't notice--or care--about these details.

I'd like to see hordes of angry women descending on Helmut Lang and his ilk, all demanding to have sleeveheads sewn into their jackets. Instead women blame their "imperfect" bodies. And men blithely go forth with their chest pads, sleeveheads, and all the other tiny tailoring tricks used in their jackets, thinking they are perfect specimens. GRRRR!

Gaylene

Veteran

As for that sleeve of the HL jacket, your arm is just fine; the sleeve on that HL jacket is cut very high and very narrow. Most women would have difficulty fitting into that sleeve which is why the jacket was probably at the Rack. If HL was just into designing jackets for women with VERY thin shoulders and arms, I'd grudgingly accept his right to do so but I suspect that high, narrow arm had more to do with fitting pattern pieces on a bolt of fabric. Manufacturers increase their profits by shaving off millimeters from the pattern pieces when they try to fit them together tightly to save fabric. Sometimes they get carried away and you end up with very oddly shaped sleeves and armholes.

barbaraq

Gaylene, you are so on point. A sleeve head is just what is needed. It will keep the upper sleeve from collapsing inward from the shoulder seam. It does seem very odd that HL, a so-called high end designer, would omit this. As you said, not difficult nor escpecially time consuming. Aren't we glad we sew?

abc

Veteran

Wow, I just learned a lot from this thread. My mom is a seamstress so I will have to share this with her, she'll be so proud

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Wow. This is incredibly helpful info.

I am one who gets the hollow in some jackets between bust and shoulder. That is one reason I had to return the Theory Lanai.

Thanks for starting this thread, Unfrumped, and thanks to all the helpful contributors.