Arg

Stagiaire Fash

I want these pants. This color. This cut, wide/straight legs, high waist, and all. Cords. The model is even my height (almost). But i want sustainable cotton, processed with less water.

Why does it have to be so hard?

(No answers required—that’s a rhetorical question to say I’m pissed off & done). But commiseration is welcome.

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4 years ago

Shopping

30 replies

Latest reply was from

kkards

Veteran

Just curious- how do you know how much water was used to process this cotton? And what are you comparing it to?

4 years ago

kkards

Veteran

Maybe this will help —they are a part of the Inditex group, and so are a part of many of the industry environment initiatives
https://wikicarbon.org/wiki/Company:Stradivarius

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Kkards, this gives a bit of an explanation of how much water standard cotton processing methods use, and of organic methods using less https://www.theworldcounts.com.....ption/stor Organic cotton is becoming more widely available--the maker of those pants has some products that are organic cotton--but not fast enough for me. It's been 12 years since I was a university prof, and we taught about hte impacts of cotton processing then. University teaching is not the cutting edge of research.

4 years ago

Synne

Veteran

You don't drive a car, right? You bike everywhere and I imagine you are very environmentally conscious in a lot of ways. You can buy these pants with the best of conciousness!

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

You enablers!

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

It's not just about me and my closet though. It's also about wanting to nudge the industry in the right direction. I'm starting to think about getting white pants in the cut I want and trying to dye them that saturated purple. Because white might be easier to find.

4 years ago

LaPed

Veteran

Since the less sustainable version is presumably cheaper than a low-water/organic cotton version would be, maybe donate the difference to an organization that advances sustainable farming or workers’ rights?

Dying a white pair could work, but you have to ask yourself if you’re okay with some variation/unevenness in the color and with the chance that the threads might not take dye the way the fabric does (they’re often synthetic even if the garment is otherwise cotton).

4 years ago

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

What Synne said!

In my experience, it's impossible to tick off all the boxes. And you're already very diligent about ticking them off in the sustainable and ethical department!

What you lose on the swings, you gain on the roundabouts. So maybe don't rule out the pants yet.

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Et tu, Angie?

LaPed, a donation is an interesting idea. Not something I’d want to make a regular habit, because I do want to see the sustainable side growing, so it needs people buying it, but maybe every once in a while…. Hmmmm

4 years ago

Irina

Veteran

Well, I dyed two sweaters last year and was uneasy about amount of water I had to use to wash off dye from them. If you don’t use enough, dye might transfer to other clothes. In my case it was an experiment with my own sweaters to understand the process, results and if it would be a viable option to buy something and dye into a different color. My answer is no to buying anything with a purpose to dye it.

4 years ago

lozz_oz

Veteran

Like others have said - swings and roundabouts.

4 years ago

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

This is why I have been trying to not even browse those sites that likely won't meet my personal ethical standards. It can be way too tempting, so I'd rather not even know their products exist.

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Jenn, that’s smart of you. I was accosted by a random ad from Hess—nice, sustainably made clothing, pants in an orchid color I like, but it isn’t what I need right now. And then I googled. That’s where things went awry. And it's complicated--this company, like many others, is beginning to offer more sustainable clothing. I don't want to make the same mistake here that I made when I became a vegetarian--I want to support moves towards more sustainability.

Irina, good to hear a voice of experience.

Lozz_oz, I don’t know if I would harbor bad feelings against them. It’s goofy, I know.

4 years ago

Style Fan

Veteran

They are a gorgeous colour! You seem to keep your clothes for a long time.

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Style Fan, I like to keep clothes for a long time, but cords wear out. Since posting this I’ve realized (with a laugh at myself) that in the 80s I had a pair of cords almost this exact color, and a pair that was peachy salmon, both the same size, wide wale with high waists and carrot legs.

4 years ago

SarahD8

Veteran

So frustrating! In the spirit of commiseration, I often feel frustrated that sustainable fashion brands tend to feature a very narrow aesthetic...that is not mine. And also a color palette that makes me look like death warmed over.

I had the same thought as Irina about the potential for water use in a home dye job. My professional opinion as a climate journalist is that life cycle analysis is complicated! (And LCA of cotton in particular can be rife with questionable assumptions.)

My other professional opinion as a climate journalist is that the most sustainable pair of pants to buy is the one that will prevent you from buying another pair of pants. (Like...I would rather buy ONE pair of jeans that I know will work even if they're from Old Navy than four almost-right ones from "sustainable" brands.)

But, lest you think I am merely enabling, your response to Jenn makes me wonder if these purple pants are, if not a need, then an authentic want rather than a marketing-manufactured want. You know?

4 years ago

rachylou

Veteran

Have you been following Scotland? I’m like buy now so you’ll have them for the apocalypse in 2045… ahem(!)

Sorry. Peanut Gallery :p

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Sarah, you have such incisive comments. It occurred to me as I typed that to Jenn that I sounded pretty impulsive, but actually I’ve had “fancy pants” (ie patterned or bright colored) for winter on my list for quite a while. I have red flares and brown skinnies in the size I’d get these in, and my pinstriped jeans or black baby boot cuts might fit too. The black, green, and blue pants I got when we moved here are all at the very tippy-top of my size range now.

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Scotland? Rachylou, you are funny, but I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Wait, you mean *that* conference—the one that’s going to make us say “Glasgow” instead of “Paris”.

You’re probably right that my one pair of pants won’t make that much difference, but this is an industry made up of 1+1+1+…. In some things, an individual’s effort doesn’t mean much vs a company’s, but these companies make what gets purchased.

4 years ago

Bijou

Veteran

It is tricky... I do think you could buy these pants with a clear conscience if you wear them into the ground (which you will)!

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Thanks Bijou.

I have one more pair of winter pants than I mentioned above—the off-white ones with the fabric pull in the leg. But I have more skirts than you can shake a stick at, and probably half a dozen winter dresses. So I’m trying to decide if I have more skirts and dresses because that’s what I wear, or if I wear them more because that’s what I have.

4 years ago

kkards

Veteran

Got it, i did not realize that you were solely focused on organic cotton for water use, thats why i asked. Yes cotton growing does use a lot of water, as does dyeing, pre washing etc. i was thinking of the end to end manufacturing, which was why i was asking. For example, Levi Straus, which I don’t think uses organics, has done a lot of R&D on using and reusing water in the development of its clothing.
There’s a lot to consider, and I’m reminded of what my mother, trained as a textile chemist said to me recently. “Think of all the chemicals that had to be used to make that wool item washable”

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

kkards, I am nowhere near a specialist in this kind of thing. From what I've read, cotton uses more water in all its stages than any other fabric, including wool. I'd be interested to hear what your mom says about the comparison between them. I think the link I posted above references cotton initiatives that focus on the processing as well as initiatives that focus on the growing (but I just plucked it from a search result and skimmed, so might be wrong--for some reason I read your question as a very naive one, which made me wonder, because I thought you knew more, but then I shrugged and incorrectly assumed naivete. Sorry). I don't think there is one label that encapsulates all the issues entirely. BCI doesn't trace the entire chain for each item. Oeko-tex is focused more on the consumer than on the production. Cotton made in Africa doesn't have as stringent of controls as other programs. There are others, each with their own benefits and drawbacks too. I don't think I can find the perfect solution, but I do know that cotton as it is typically produced for our consumption, even though I love the feel of that fiber better than any other, with the possible exception of silk, isn't something I want to support. Doing a thing, even if it's not all the things, is better than nothing.

BTW, for Christmas from family, I've requested a big white fisherman's sweater of organic cotton. They have no idea what I'm talking about, so I'm trying to explain it to them clearly and gently. If any of you have ever done this successfully and have tips, I'm all ears.

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Just heard these might be under the tree for me. They go in a different direction than the purple cords, but do fit the “fancy pants” descriptor, so I’m going to stand down on these purple pants—for now anyway.

https://www.pendleton-usa.com/.....color=7086

4 years ago

CarolS

Veteran

Stag, given the specificity of your request, do you think it would help to point your family to a couple of options that would tick your boxes and tickle your fancy?

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

CarolS, you mean the sweater request?
This is segueing into philosophies about gift-giving now, but I feel the hunt is part of the gift. If I knew a specific sweater, I’d ask for it, but all I have at this point is someone on ylf saying recently that she’s seen a ton of white fisherman sweaters in the US like her green one from the UK. I did send them a little article on different certifications to give them an idea. If they come up with a sweater like I want, awesome. If not, I’m in the same spot I’m in now, nbd. I did specify several other things I’d like (including the watch plaid pants) so they aren’t entirely out in the woods

4 years ago

CarolS

Veteran

No interest in the philosophies of gift giving.

4 years ago

Minaminu

Veteran

Peopletree has some light purple cotton trousers... https://www.peopletree.co.uk/w.....a-trousers

The other alternative is to sit and wait for a similar item to come up in ebay or similar websites. I got some of my favourite pieces by waiting a couple of seasons and I find this to be a solution from buying brand new pieces from a brand who does not have great ethics.

Having said that, I think Jenn gave a very wise suggestion!

4 years ago

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Thanks Minaminu! I’m going to hold off on these pants & see if something similar and ethically made comes up. I want to support small sustainable makers and big companies’ moves towards sustainability, but need to tie myself to the mast when I look at the sites that mix sustainable and unsustainably-produced clothing.

4 years ago

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