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Age, dressing, style and the corporate world

Tammyb

Roxanna’s post about dressy or casual was thought provoking for me about what to wear to work. Here is my story and observations.

At my very first corporate job 25 years ago, it was pretty clear: you wore a suit. The guidance was to dress like your boss and we all did that. They incorporated business casual at that company. Again, I followed my boss, who was only a few years older than me and we were client facing so still wore suits to meet with accounts. I didn’t honk about clothes much at that time. I shopped at Loft and they must have read our dress code.

Then a few jobs and a couple years later and I was working in corporate headquarters. I was barely 30 and everyone else spanned 50-60 years old. They were all lifers- none had ambition for promotion and generally didn’t care about their appearance. (Sadly some didn’t care about their work either. One guy told me that if I keep stacks of paper on my desk I could fake being busy and wouldn’t get more work.). We had a business casual dress code and everyone just wore any shirt, any pants and closed toe shoes.

My manager was the exception. She wore suits and had a very crisp appearance. After I worked there a year she pulled me aside and gave me the advice that I mentioned in my response to Roxanna’s Post. Her delivery was very kind and well intentioned. She told me that my attire was making me appear “young” and that to be taken more seriously I should dress more professionally. The next weekend, I went to Nordstrom and bought myself several outfits that were more professional and polished.

For the last twenty years, I have changed companies several times, but no matter where I was I wear suits, or always a blazer or cardigan, dressier shoes, accessories that are conservative, etc. very polished. I’ve had several promotions and am now head a department.

My thoughts and I am curious on your thoughts and experiences:
I wonder if the promotions would have happened if I dressed more casually.
Casual is a word that can be broadly interpreted. What does business was casual mean?
Does age buy you the license to dress more casually- and not lose career momentum?
Does seniority buy you the license to dress more casually- and not lose career momentum?

What do you think?

Dressing

45 replies

Latest reply was from

The Cat

Veteran

Interesting questions. I don't have exact answers, but have made many reflections on this subject. Am in a hurry right now. But will come back to this thread later.

Bijou

Veteran

Tammy I have been working for a similar amount of time as you and in accounting - working for large accounting firms and also in financial services. My thoughts are people get a first impression and it can take time to shift that, if they think you look less than professional. However, I like to dress with personality, so even if people think I am frivolous from my appearance, I accept that and let my work speak for itself. My clients know me and value my expertise, how I dress now is less relevant especially as the workforce becomes more casual.

Anonymous

Lots of questions posed, but my answers to the last two are "yes" (but I might swap the word casual for creative) . How you present yourself is everything. It's funny, I was getting a pedicure on Friday and was watching a new assistant to the salon, intrigued (and not in a good way) with her outfit. I had no idea how old she was, but she looked about 16 or 17 to me (turns out she was in her mid 20's) in her extremely short printed rayon shorts, tight fitted tank top and flip flops. I was alternately appalled at her outfit, and intrigued by all of her tattoos, and also surprised that the salon owner had hired her. I figured maybe she was someone's kid looking for a summer job. Turns out she's a licensed aesthetician , a mother, and aspiring microblading tech. If you want to be treated seriously among people you don't know - your outfit is the first thing your customers are going to judge you on. And perhaps determine your age and experience by.....

My entire career has been in fields and environments (fashion, buying, sales, manufacturing) where dress codes were not well figured-out and where little precedent was set. I overdressed when younger, and now have relaxed into a far more personal, yet professional and dressed-up look.

Joy

Veteran

Interesting. I think dressing for the job you want is still the way to go. People will think of you for promotions. It is sad that older members let their dress and work go. It sounds like they are already in retirement mode. I do not think age or seniority should be an excuse. When the company wants to cut out the dead wood, those will be the first to go. Maybe that is what they want...with a nice financial package.

taylor

Veteran

This may not go over well, but I am appalled by the way most people dress across all professional fields.

Most people show up for work like they rolled out of bed and threw on those clothes on the floor. I’m not being judgmental, it’s just an observation over the years things have become so casual .
This is across all spectrum and people of all ages in business, from medical field to sales associate to stylists, those behind the make up counters , attorney offices and attorneys. I’m not calling out particular income bracket or profession or everyone in that profession, I’m just saying this is MY observation from what I have seen the past several years.

I’m truly baffled at why this is. Why has casual turned into sloppy. I can’t believe that some people who are actually working... look like they are a client/ customer dressed for a day off.

I think it’s a sad thing actually.

kkards

Veteran

let me start by saying many many years ago, i also had a women i worked with (not my direct boss) pull me aside and tell me that the way i was dressing was holding me back from getting the promotions that i desired....and i was young, and looking to get promoted to an assistent buyer at a retail company, not making much money, and had fallen into the trap of dressing in cheap and easy clothing. like you Tammyb, i immediately took myself out and spend my hard earned saving and upgrade and updated my wardrobe....to this day, i am thankful that that women cared enough to take the time to have that uncomfortable conversation with me....how do i know it was uncomfortable, becuase i've paied it back by having the same converstion with other young women, and i've watched myself, and most of them, benifit from the advice....
re your other questions....
i think with the casualization of the work place, the question is not about wearing suits etc...its about how to look polished and put together, even in jeans and a tee shirt....is your footwear clean and tidy, are you jeans well fitting, are your leggings still the orginal color and do they still hold their shape, same with what ever top/shirt you are wearing...
as i've aged in the work place, i've become more comfortable with wearing what makes me happy, but with an eye to presenting myself as still understanding what is current and trend right. i do still work in retail, althought no longer in the fashion side...
i find that i'm working hard now to find the right balance between casual and dressy...i will tend to wear a blazer on days i have meetings with VPs because it makes me feel more confident, and because i want to convey to my team and others in my area that this meeting is important, and these people, and what they think, matters
sorry, i feel like i have sort of rambled on here, i hope that this made sense...

kkards

Veteran

taylor...i know that many many people i work with, especially the men, are afraid to have the difficult, and uncomfortable conversation with those who work for them, about how they are dressing for work...even when those who work for them are in direct violation of the office dress code...

taylor

Veteran

kkards , I agree . Unfortunately people are sooo touchy these days , and by the looks of things one cannot comment on such things without fear of lawsuit.
I cannot tell you how many times I leave somewhere and think “ that was a beauty consultant?, a medical professional ? or a professional behind the desk of a large business “. Yikes !

As someone who actually worked in the beauty business for some 40 odd years, and was in the fashion industry for 10, I like my professionals to look like they actually represent their field.

Anonymous

I totally agree with you , taylor. I'm appalled by other people about 75% of the time - lol.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I think age and seniority buys you the license to dress more formally.

This is a very complex question today when assumptions and judgments about dressing and grooming are quite different to what they used to be. Especially in a very casual country like the US.

I have to add my global perspective because that's my thing: people tend to dress more formally in Europe and especially Asia. Also in parts of Africa and the Middle East. It’s part of their cultural norm.

As an almost 50 year old, I am old school in terms of polish and appearance. I’m always comparatively done up and dressy - even in sneakers - because it’s easy and a natural fit. Matches my personality and sartorial preferences, and feels dead right. I’m not sure if this goes down well with everyone - but it doesn’t need to.

Today’s younger generation - who are the future and younger than Generation X - do not necessarily hold good grooming, polish and dressier attire in high regard. In fact it’s looked down upon in the tech world. (An extreme example). You are much more intelligent, smarter and cooler in torn denim, joggers, hoodie, clever graphic tee and sneaks regardless of gender. This is a judgment in itself! Only in the opposite direction. Of course, this is a sweeping generalization. But I deal with tech clients who face this problem daily and we thrash out the topic till the cows come home. I know all about it.

I have to run, but will talk about my own judgements in this regard later. I struggle with them sometimes because I don’t know what is right.

Molly Mac

Veteran

In the health care field it can be a struggle to pull off professional AND be practical. I spend all day standing on hard floors so footwear must be comfortable and closed toe. Sneakers or clogs are the most sensible shoes to wear but not really professional. Dresses are totally out as I am constantly crouching low, leaning over, etc.... Fabrics must be machine washable and stain repellent (body fluids-enough said). Blouses must be higher necked or need a camisole, no long necklaces or ties(for men) as they can carry germs. Scrubs for all really make the most sense, but outside of the hospital are considered too sloppy and casual. It really takes all the fun out of dressing for work.

Alicewonderland

Veteran

Regarding taylor’s comment about how most people dress badly- I think it’s because most clothes easily available today are terrible in addition to being extremely casual. People who don’t go out of their way to care about their clothes like those on this forum have a high likelihood of ending up in something with terrible fabric that doesn’t fit them.

taylor

Veteran

To be clear, I don’t think people necessarily dress badly, some people are actually too broke .
My point was ...those professional people dress who dress sloppy, and carelessly are the ones who stand out.
My doctors assistant wears scrubs and looks adorable with her hair done , jewelry and cute sneaks.
Im not judging anyone , I’m just shocked and appalled by the sloppy casual attitude I see across ALL professional business these days.
Some look like they are coming from a picnic...and that seems to be fine with their employers. I’m baffled as to why this is acceptable.

Alicewonderland

Veteran

I understand what you mean Taylor. In general casual sloppiness has leaked into fields where there used to be more uniformly “appropriate” dressing. A bit of effort is all it takes, and when professionals are not neat and presentable it can be distracting.

taylor

Veteran

Totally agree with you Alicewonderland. A bit of effort in a professional setting is much appreciated!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I think that despite the shifting goal posts of what is acceptable attire and style across the world’s workforce - when it comes to industries like finance, healthcare, legal services, hotels, beauty and hairdressing, security and to some extent law enforcement and real estate - I know that I appreciate people in those industries to look polished, well groomed, dressier and professional. Although it has nothing to do with their ability, it makes me think I’m getting better service as a first impression.

A quick word about healthcare and veterinary practices: I’ve seen plenty of people in those industries look absolutely professional and wonderful in scrubs and lab coats.

rachylou

Veteran

Wait... are you saying you were wearing Loft and that your boss at the time considered it too young? I admit to going to Ann Taylor over the Loft much much more, but while Loft struck me as casual - it never struck me as young. I have to think about that.

In any case, I worked in high tech until recently. Always manufacturing. Hard tech. Not apps. Now bakery goods. So bankers suits O-U-T out. On the other hand, I first went to work for a man who’d been an English banker. Now, I had to pass a blind test and I won. However, he told me the staff all liked the other girl better. He, though, liked me because, while I didn’t wear a suit, he picked me because I was button down: black trousers, white cotton short-sleeved twinset, black heeled oxfords. I was with him for ten years and two companies. It occurs to me that if I hadn’t won the test, I might have still got the job, but I think in manufacturing skill wins out in the end no matter what. How crumpled your shirts are is nothing compared to whether your bridge will stand.

Of course, at the bakery, if you show up in any kind of office wear, looking polished, esp a suit, your resume goes in the round file. We have a big window onto the floor, that the public can see through, but still... you clearly have no idea what happens in a plant for baked goods. Frankly you should show up in a tee and jeans. No accessories. Do not iron. Do not wear makeup. Probably shouldn’t brush your hair either.

So I think you need to dress for the job you want. I think dressing like the boss works; they would know. I also feel most bosses I’ve had, have dressed pretty plainly, have dressed seriously. A touch of fashion perhaps, but never a lot. I have lots of thoughts on why this is.

taylor

Veteran

To add, I appreciate when people emphasize their look in their profession. For instance I actually appreciate the tattoo artist covered in tats and piercing... I get that.

kkards

Veteran

Yes today’s changing norms make “what is appropriate and professional” more of a sliding scale. So it’s even more important to be able to read and understand both your industry’s and your company’s culture.

Thinking about it I’m going to suggest the elevator test
If you the elevator opens with only the CEO on it, do you
A) feel comfortable that they won’t wonder what rock you crawled out from
B) pretend you were going the other direction because you don’t feel comfortable
C) don’t care what the CEO thinks

I’m going to suggest if it’s either B or C it’s time for a change.
But that’s just me. YMMV

taylor

Veteran

Kkards, I like your elevator test and agree with your assessment.
I’m going with a... and hoping the CEO would offer me a job.

Alicewonderland

Veteran

Lol at Kkards.

Yes, appropriateness of dress for your field is important. I actually did some research on this when trying to decide what to wear to work, and found the study below. They did a study asking patients what kind of clothing they preferred their doctor to wear and the white coat came out strongly preferred. Now I always wear one. Here’s the study:
https://www.physiciansweekly.c.....ite-coats/

They should do a study for all the professions and see what the results are.

taylor

Veteran

That’s a great study ! I like my docs to look like doctors .too... not car mechanics .. I like them grubby , my carpenters to look like they can wield a hammer a stylists to look like they actually have some style —- etc!

This is where the lines get blurred .

Gretchen

Veteran

I have many thoughts on this. I’ve always worked in high tech, and have been in companies where casual Friday meant wearing khakis instead of suit pants, and startups where anything goes.

My guidance has always been to know your audience. If it’s Tuesday and you don’t have any meetings, then dress down....but be at a level where you could be ok attending a last minute meeting. A memorable learning experience was a peer having to run to Walmart at lunch - she was in shorts and a t-shirt, had been called into a customer meeting at 2, and there wasn’t another clothing retailer within a 30 minute drive. I always keep a blazer in my office, so I could throw it on over my outfit if I had to.

I think know your audience plays well in other industries as well. DS is in government and is learning the ropes of wearing very formal clothes, while DD is interning in guest services - wore nice jeans and blazer to her interview, knowing she would be in company gear once she got the job,

rachylou

Veteran

Re the elevator test... we saw our old bakery boss just the other day. Ohmigosh, he was laughing. Accused me of ‘looking normal’! I was wearing my harem pants! My hair is Little Mermaid colour! But my co-worker, she has shaved her head and then dyed her buzz pink.

And... so I just also chucked one consultant for the bakery for another. The one I cancelled - very corporate: dark jeans, loafers, button-front shirts. The one hired: tee with sleeves cut off and talks to me about scheduling meetings so he can get to frisbee golf. It was about skill and knowledge, but there’s a connection there between the clothes and the talent, got to be honest... but not the way a magazine article on dressing for success would have it.

rachylou

Veteran

And one more... my lawyers have always been slightly shabby... but this probably has to do with living in a hippie Mecca.

taylor

Veteran

The lawyer thing confuses me . My daughters lawyer was a hot sloppy mess , as were her staff . Literally looked like thy crawled from bed and came to work and very lazy , sloppy , rude to boot. She was a crappy lawyer too. I don’t know how she stays in business .
My sons lawyer is a beautiful, brilliant , articulate , humble , polite young man who’s family comes India , with impeccable grooming and stellar track record. He is the lawyer my husband and I have retained .
I wonder if dress and attitude are somehow connected?
I suspect yes !

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Threadjack: On the subject of job appropriate style -- Taylor, you will appreciate that I pay special attention to my hair stylist's hair! If they never change it up or experiment or always have awful looking hair, I don't trust them. Probably not fair of me...

I am okay with them wearing a style I wouldn't wear myself, especially as a styling experiment. (My current stylist is wearing screaming yellow hair cut in a very choppy punk style -- looks like she just walked off the runway. And all in the service of one of her colleagues who needed to experiment with something funky for a set of shots for film pre-production of some kind.) Anyway...it can be wild and crazy but it has to be considered.

Tammy, back to your questions...like Taylor, I think appropriateness for the job and for the environment is key. Each workplace is a bit different. But good grooming should be a given everywhere, and that is strangely an aspect that seems more ignored now than it used to be.

I don't think age has bought me the licence to dress how I want, but it has brought me to a place where I have a different kind of job than I used to have, and in that job I have more licence to dress as I wish. Creative field for the win!

But also, not -- because as LisaP pointed out, it is easier to get it "wrong" when there is no designated uniform. You have to develop a strong personal style and trust your instincts because no one else can tell you how to look.

I do think our appearance can influence our rise in the ranks, but it is not the only factor, and it's more about dressing to fit the cultural norm of that profession (whatever it may be) than dressing to an abstract standard.

I also think young people are sometimes confused by the wild variation in fashion messages they get, so their choices might not always reflect the ideals of the job-world they are entering at first.

Gaylene

Veteran

Totally agree with Taylor and Rachylou that not figuring out the nuances of a particular “dress code” can definitely put the brakes on an individual’s career aspirations. Being sensitive to the underlying nonverbal messages people are constantly sending to each other is a highly prized attribute in a professional world—even in the notoriously divergent tech one.

Dressing “inappropriately” is all too easily interpreted as visual proof of personal limitations. In other words, you’ve dug yourself a hole which you will need to climb out of before the other person can focus on your abilities—and first impressions are notoriously sticky once the filter been formed. As a prof, time and again I saw some of my brightest students have to do some serious soul-searching when supposedly less talented fellow students received job offers which (they thought) should have been theirs. It took a mental re-adjustment for these top students to realize it might be necessary give over some of their brain time to figuring out the intricate interplay of nonverbal human messaging. My “techies” still wore their “uniforms” to their interviews, but they eventually had enough interaction smarts to understand WHY (and not just how) it could help their cause to push back their hoods, wear a suitable message on their graphic T’s, and to wear sneaks which didn’t let their big toe hang out.

Echo

Veteran

People are so likely to get up in arms about being told what to wear or what not to wear and/or how to present themselves that I think a lot of workplaces are afraid to enforce much in terms of dress code. Heck, I work in public education, and we have a principal who is afraid to enforce a dress code for fear of being accused of "policing women's bodies." Of course, a dress code can be presented in a completely gender-neutral way, but some people in leadership can't seem to think outside the box.

But the way people perceive you means everything. While someone perhaps SHOULD not judge you by your clothing or presentation, we also know that they DO. Many older people are intimidated by certain styles of dress or personal presentation (tattoos, multi-colored hair, visible piercings), and while they may never say anything, they will also probably not return to certain stores or places of business if they felt that way. In other words, a business may never even realize why their competitor is doing better than they are, but all the customers who decided to shop elsewhere certainly could.

And I absolutely judge professionals by their appearance, and it influences my perception - right or wrong - of their ability to do their jobs. As was previously mentioned, I find nurses dressed in scrubs to be completely appropriate, as are tattoo artists covered in tattoos, hair stylists with creative hair or fashion editors wearing unusual clothing. But when my personal accountant is covered in tattoos, has creative hair and is wearing unusual clothing, I might think about a different accountant.

Personally, I've always adopted the belief that I should dress for the position I want, not the position I'm in, so I have always erred on the dressier side. I very much believe it has influenced the job offers, promotions and raises I have received. And I look at dress codes the way I look at the "rules" of writing for students: Once you prove you know and can follow the rules, only then are you allowed to push boundaries or break them. I also firmly believe that dressing well influences a person's mental and emotional state and helps their performance.

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