My biggest issue is that my quasi-professional clothes get wrinkled in an hour. Can I travel with a steamer?

There is no question that power can buy some degree of dress code freedom. Think about bosses who dress down to appear “approachable,” vs. junior associates who are literally “dressing up” the ladder. Even being new or veteran to a neighborhood affects one`s freedom to break the rules. The “you never get a second chance to make a first impression” has already been referenced in this thread; labels are hard to break. Women of color have written about how their hair must be perfectly styled for them to be respected, while white women`s hair can be pony-tailed, etc. Power and position (unfair as they are) change the rules for some of us. That said, labels don`t stick unless there is evidence to back them up, so work product, personality, etc. eventually win in the end. It is frustrating that books are judged by their covers for so long.

The scale of professional dressing is much more casual in Israel than the US and probably most other places . Lawyers do dress the closest to suits but ties are rare. Hi tech and non-profit are pretty much a free for all. A politician wearing a tie is probably overseas. Doctors usually try to look neat. I would venture to say that people dress more to identify their social group than their profession.

Such interesting questions and responses! I especially agree with aliceinwonderland re: general clothes quality. Gretchen, your advice to dress down on non-meeting days but still look presentable enough should something come up, sounds very valuable for my own workplace too.
I still struggle with this as my intuitions follow yours, tammyb, but since starting work my bosses have consistently dressed more casual and more sloppy than I would dress in my lower rank job at that time! Right now it's at its very worst: my direct boss (working in government, only internal client facing, tech-adjacent), wears denim on denim with grubby white sneakers.... and he's no hipster. I try to let it go and maintain my naturally dressier style: as long as I don't wear suits I don't suppose people will find me stuffy or out of place. Let's say I now sort of dress like my boss's boss :).

Great thread. I too was advised on my clothing in an early job and did take that advice on board. It was actually not terribly expensive either in 1994 to set myself up with a professional wardrobe because repeating was expected. And we all did it.

I do think navigating dress codes and careers is tricky when there are no rules - but there is judgement and expectation. And I don’t think there is the easy availability of smart corporate wear either at moderate prices.

I am not sure age means you can dress out of acceptable and reasonable tolerances for the role that you are working in....

All bar one of my bosses has been a man; they’ve always worn suits and generally been well (enough) turned out. I’m super sensitive about what colleagues and advisers where to work / meet with me / my colleagues.

I think there are so many stores where it is possible to buy inexpensive stylish clothes that regardless of age and salary, it is possible to fit in and look good for work, if you chose to.

This thread is fascinating and I agree with the general tenor.

Whether one dresses to conform to the expected norm or to challenge it should be a deliberate choice. When I first started, my boss told me to wear a piece of clothing that is an instant signifier of our industry when I met with his boss. However where I trained, this article was viewed as a false signifier of knowledge and expertise and no one wore it. I wore it that time and never again. It was inauthentic.

At the same time, I was building a career out of being a contrarian, outside the box thinking. non-conforming dress signaled nonconforming ideas. Some/many at my company didn’t like either. But it worked, so long as dressing was deliberate.

Wow- thanks all for your thoughts on this. I had a lot going on yesterday so couldn’t come back to the thread. I’m savoring the conversation so will respond in multiple posts.

Angie, yes I have been to Seattle to work with a start up (not tech!) and have witnessed the more laid back style. When I go, I wear jeans but can never be more casual than that.

Rachylou- I totally get what you mean about appropriate attire. My friends in the music industry have no need for the clothing in my closet. My niece is an ED nurse. It’s her shoes that matter. And her scrubs start off clean and wrinkle free!

Bijou- I love that you have been able to let your personality shine through in that rather stodgy industry. I have a friend who is a CPA and they only recently took away their pantyhose requirement in their dress code.

Lisap- it is hard to get beyond first impressions, so I agree that how you present yourself is everything. So it’s also about more than what you’re wearing but how you’re wearing it, don’t you think?

Taylor- I feel like there is a clean line between sloppy and casual. One of my kids wears jeans, concert or band tees, and high tops everyday. He has a look and style that he has curated in his 11 years. The other wears whatever he touches first. He literally does not care what he wears as long as he is comfortable and doesn’t have to put effort into it. I think a lot of people on like my second son. When I talk about casual here, I really do mean casual and not sloppy. But you’ve definitely hit on a truth!

Kkards- so glad you paid it forward. I haven’t needed to on this topic, but I did use it as a model for compassionate and direct guidance. As Taylor says, so many people are so touchy, and I think that if the relationship is right the person will take it well. It’s like any feedback about work.

Gretchen- yes always know your audience - and have a plan B!

Taylor- re the lawyers....I do think that everything others have said is true— know your audience. If you are representing me as my attorney I would expect you to be appropriate. To me that means ready to meet with a judge. On the other hand, I see what people wear to church nowadays....)

Suz- so true about hairdressers! Mine is always mixing it up a little bit and always looks great. Also, I think that getting the right reading of the cultural norm says something about you (employee climbing the ladder) and your interest in this place (whether it be profession or your current company). That, and Gaylene’s point, hit the nail on the head and I share the view. Show you care and want to be here!

Liesbeth- I had to laugh at your boss’ fashion don’t. The only thing worse would a griege sweatsuit for work!

Tammyb, the West coast is VERY casual. That said, I feel very comfortable dressed up. Maybe because I always wear flat shoes? Individualism trend FTW.

Suz, I think it's really important for a hairdresser to have great hair. Excellent advertisement for their skills.

Gretchen, really like what you said.

I agree with Rachlou that “How crumpled your shirts are is nothing compared to whether your bridge will stand“ and with Bj1111 that clothing can be a false signifier, just like that stack of papers on your desk can make it look like you’re working. That’s why I think some fields that are focused on knowledge, like tech and academia, give people a hard time for overdressing—spend your time on your work, not your appearance!

I had a colleague in grad school who did the whole 9 yards—perfectly curled and coiffed hair every day, manicures (no one else I knew got them), full face of makeup, dressed to a T. She told me the reason she did it was that her writing was very feminist (still is, and she has become a leader in women’s studies) and she had seen women get written off as “women’s studies dykes” or similar, so her appearance was a way of disabling that critique. I don’t know what happened when she first arrived and was the only woman—for all I know there may have been concerns she was going to spend more time on make-up than on work— but by the time I got there and we were 5 out of about 30, absolutely no one criticized her appearance—because she did the work, had a list of conference presentations and publications as long as your arm, and was a good teacher. A few years and 6 more women in the dept later, I was told that I was the power dresser, because I wore old cut-offs to class, showing confidence in my skills in the classroom.

Of course, when I go somewhere where the work itself is about appearance, then it doesn’t bother me to see people who spend time on theirs. But their work on others is still more important to me—that, not dressing themselves, is their job. After a single mom drssses her kid(s) and her clients, she should expend energy on her own appearance? Eyeroll. It isn’t just foolish to judge by that standard, it’s also terribly unfair. Why do some women judge other women’s appearances so damn harshly and ignore the structures in society that leave people, often women, in overwhelming situations?

You can dress up if you like. You can dress down if you like. Dressing according to what’s expected can make things a little easier for you in the beginning, but eventually it should come down to whether you are doing the work or not. I don’t think age gives you license to do anything differently (and you can be judged for being too old in some fields) but like the grad school colleague above, once you’ve proved your mettle, you have much more leeway to dress how you wish, whether that’s fancy or not.

Lots of interesting comments here.

Just chiming in to say that I really don't think age or seniority buys you the license to dress more casual than others. Quite the contrary. In my experience, it is often much appreciated when mature persons dress well and are good role models for others.

Much could be said about showing respect for other people, the setting, etc. However, proper dressing and grooming is also a question of self-respect (which actually often generates respect from others). I see no reason to "let yourself go" even if retirement is near.

FashIntern. - such as interesting story about your grad school colleague. She sounds brilliant!

Ditto The Cat!
I've never worked a corporate job, mostly in health/human services or self employed. I never had to be super formal, but as soon as I started working full time, it was important to me to dress the part and not look too young. Now it's a balance between dressy enough to look competent, but not too much "the man" to be unapproachable. So I go with dressy/creative-workwear shapes in vibrant colors usually. People have to trust me and tell me a lot of personal things. At the same time, sometimes I have to tell people they're ineligible for programs, will have a penalty, or even that they have committed fraud. I also have to be the face of both of my jobs in my community, and even on my days off I see people I know.