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catgirl

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62 replies

Latest reply was from DonnaF

Mochi

Veteran

Well, to be really honest, I got pregnant. We weren't even married at the time (though in a relationship of a few years). But I had always assumed I would be a mother. Looking at it now, I see that this is a false assumption, in the sense that like many women, I might not have ever met the right partner, and would have had to make the decision to be a single mother. I am not sure I would have ever felt ready to take it all on by myself, that it would be worth it. In retrospect, it was also great to become a mother at a young age (we later tried for a second baby, and it never happened, which I'm fine with). I imagine that women who are dealing with their biological clocks are under (put themselves under?) incredible stress and anxiety. I never had to go through that.

I feel really strongly that as a culture we are so judgmental of people who choose not to become parents. It is smug and wrong. (Not to mention the couples who struggle with infertility.)

catgirl

Veteran

Yes, you are exactly right. And ironically, my contrary nature in fighting that sense of being judged almost stopped me from having my boy.

But it is not just our culture - my other culture (Indian) is even more pressure-filled, and there is no hesitation or shame about it!

Jjsloane

Veteran

I was not someone who always thought it was a given I'd have kids. I did not obsess over babies or get jealous when friends had children. I got married later in life (35) and at that point I realized I would like children, but if it hadn't happened I would have made peace with it as well. I do not think I would have had a child on my own if I had not met DH.
I had my children at 38 and 41. I had a miscarriage between the 2 children and had a little help (IUI) with DD. We have been very blessed, but it's really hard being older parents. My energy and tolerance is not what I think it should be. I worry about not being there for them when they are parents.
I NEVER tell people whether they should or should not have children. It is a very personal choice and I totally respect that choice for whatever reason. If asked, I try to give a neutral (or my best neutral) version of it's good for us, it's LOTS of HARD work and it's not for everyone. No judgement. I do however tell people who indicate it is a longing for them that they need to figure out how to make it happen or come to terms if not before it's not an option. Sadly women have a productive expiration date, (albeit science helps elongate that somewhat - for a price).

Anonymous

I decided not because I was desperate to have kids, but it was something I decided I wanted to do. But I waited until I was ready, even though my husband wanted kids right when we got married. 8 years later and we decided to try. My daughter is a delight. We decided to have another and while our son is fantastic, he is a huge amount of work and if he had been first we would only have one kid.

My life has changed so much since having them. But man, is it ever hard work. I wish I had truly enjoyed all those mornings of sleeping in and having a leisurely breakfast over the paper. But, hearing Victoria say "Good morning, Mummy! I am just going to read my books in your chair!" Or William waking up and saying "Mumm-eee! Mama? Mummy? Daddy? Hi hi hi hiiiii!" Makes up for it. I can't believe they are 4 and almost 2.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I have written about this quite a bit -- in my book.

But briefly - until I was 30 or so, I wasn't confident I'd be able to parent well, so I didn't want kids. Then I did, but my then-husband did not. We split up and my second husband already had kids. He was willing to have another but wanted to wait until his kids adjusted to our relationship. We then tried -- but for unknown reasons, could not conceive. (I was in my mid-thirties by then, but technically they couldn't find anything wrong). We tried IUI but that didn't work. And eventually we adopted our daughter. So I am a mother and stepmother.

Parenting our daughter has been so much harder work than parenting M's other kids. She has challenges we never dreamed of. But also gifts, and I wouldn't change anything. She has opened us and forced us to grow in so many ways and brought such richness into our lives.

But I don't believe parenting is for everyone, and I also feel I could have led a meaningful life without children.

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

When I found out I couldn't have kids I was 21 and I remember feeling sad - not really sad for myself, but sad for my dad because he has always wanted to play with grandkids and he always told me he would babysit for me (... even when I was 13 and 14 and would roll my eyes at him). I remember my dad just sitting there stunned and quiet, before finally saying, "Well, you can have a happy life without kids."

Going through obstetrics was really hard, when you're the VERY FIRST PERSON to touch a beautiful new baby and you get to announce if they're a boy or a girl and hand them to their crying mom (or crying dad), and it's such a precious moment. There was a baby that mom was giving up for adoption and didn't want to hold after she gave birth, so I got to hold the baby for about an hour. It was so soft and small and kinda yucky and covered with fluids, but after we got it cleaned up, it was still kind of wrinkly and yucky, but smelled so nice. I was kind of sad to give up the baby to be taken away, but when I saw it again a week later, it still fit nicely into my arms when I held it.

I think about adopting a baby, but I am not sure if I really want to. I think I'd prefer to have my own kid, but with my career and lack of partner, I don't think it's really fair to have a kid at this particular time in my life, even though my colleagues are all gearing up to have kids ASAP (because we get maternity benefits as residents, and not as docs) - I guess I can play with their kids, but it's just not the same.

I am jealous of other people who have sweet little babies, and I am lucky to have a pretty good relationship with one of my friends (a single dad) who has a little girl who is now 6 who does a lot of the cute kid things. Her dad told me that she wanted to be a doctor for halloween last year - and I asked her what kind of doctor. She said one that can read minds. HAHAHA. What an influence we are on their sweet lives!

Caro in Oz

Veteran

I had my daughter when I was really young - I had all sorts of gynaecological problems & was told to have them now or never have them. So for me it was not a philosophical issue - I just knew I wanted them.

My daughter on the other hand was 40 when she had her son. She said she didn't want children & I respected that. She did have a change of heart & for the reasons you mentioned. She is happy she did. So am I:)

It is something that is difficult to explain to people who choose not to (or who can't) have children. So much joy & pain & a depth & fierceness of emotion that is like nothing else imo.

Honestly, I find societies expectations & judgements hard to fathom sometimes.

DonnaF

Veteran

Getting married or even having a child was not a given for me. I didn't even think about having a child until I was in my mid-thirties; I had her when I was over 40. As kids go, she was an easy toddler and easy adolescent. Karma kickback: My mom, age 88 is the willful self-centered toddler adolescent I never had.

Would I have adopted? I don't know. With at least one set of grandparents against adoption, it would have been challenging.

While I find it great being married and great having my wonderful DD, I 100% believe that marriage/partnerhood and parenthood should be entered without pressure from me or society. I am sure I and my husband have maintained certain friendships over the years because we don't ask even in jest about marriage or having kids to our friends who are unpartnered/unmarried.

deb

Veteran

I was not going to have children until I went through a very traumatic event. The event changed me and the way I felt about my life and what my life was all about. I had two very difficult pregnancies and almost lost my life in both of them. I am so glad I had them!!!! They are my joy, sadness, fear, and blessing. All of life rolled into two wonderful people.

Transcona Shannon

Veteran

When my husband and I were engaged (four months before our wedding) he discovered a lump in one of his testicles - it was testicular cancer and it spread like wildfire. Our wedding was cancelled, his underwent surgery to remove the testicle, then had further surgeries to remove lumph nodes, one kidney and part of his liver. This was followed by two years of chemotherapy and radiation.

As a result of his second surgery (the removal of the lymph nodes), they severed the ejaculatory nerve (the vas deferens for those medical folks) and our lives changed. He still produced sperm but the wee swimmers could no longer find their way out of his body. And the few that were left after losing one testicle, were really stinky swimmers thanks to the chemo.

But we wanted to experience not only parenthood but being pregnant so through the help of a Donor Insemination Program, we underwent insemination treatments. I got pregnant the first time, but had a miscarriage at 13 weeks. The second time didn't work. And just like they say, third time was the charm and resulted in the birth of our son. We knew we'd only have one child because of our difficulties but feel so incredibly blessed to have our one.

We told him right from the start that we wanted a baby so badly but that daddy's "baby making part" was a bit broken so a donor daddy helped us. The records of the donor are sealed and there is no way to find out who he was, nor do we want to. Nor does our son. I always told him that it is like someone who donates blood to save a life; the donor donated sperm to give us life.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Wow, touching stories here. Clearly, the choice of whether or not to become a parent is a deeply personal and very sensitive issue.

I always assumed I'd have kids some day, but I have never felt a longing for it. In fact, the idea always scared me a bit, but it also felt very abstract. I knew for certain that I did not want to have a child outside of a committed relationship, so I made sure I never became a single parent. When I hit 30, I gave the whole issue some serious thought, partially because I'd been talking a lot with a really wonderful guy I'd met online (yes, the early days before OKC et al), and he was paralyzed from the waist down. I decided that if we moved forward into a relationship, I would be ok with the fact that he could not be a father.

Well, that never happened, but I did eventually meet the man I would later marry. He was twice divorced, with two kids from his first marriage, and he had four stepdaughters in his second marriage, so as you may imagine, he had undergone a vasectomy during the second marriage because they were not interested in adding more to an already large family!

Again, I did a lot of soul searching when we were dating, and each time, the thought of choosing Jamie over some possible future child won out with absolutely no reservations. Funny thing though, is that he told me many times over that if I wanted to have kids, he would do whatever it took to make it happen. I honestly never felt like it was something I wanted enough to jump through all those hoops, especially since by that time, my age would have made me a strong candidate for a high-risk pregnancy.

This is all quite timely for me to ponder as a week from now, my body will lose its ability to carry a baby, once and for all. I've been jokingly saying, "please, take my uterus, I never used it anyway!" but it's still a bit emotional. It's a loss.

But, to the point of whether a non-parent can experience the fullness of life's experiences, I've got to say that's a heck of an assumption. None of us can know the depth and breadth of another person's experiences. What is meaningful and endlessly moving to one person can leave another person cold. I don't dislike children (I never would have married a man with two kids if I did!) but I never feel that "OMG I must hold that baby" feeling that many of my friends have. And I have quite a few female friends of my age (or older) who feel just the same as I do, and have remained childless as a result.

I don't think it makes someone any less of a full woman or a full person to choose a childless life. I would never judge another woman for her reproductive choices, and I hope I would be given the same respect.

ETA: I did think many times that I would be more interested in adopting a child than getting pregnant. I was obviously never into the idea so much that we pursued it, but the idea appealed to me.

bj1111

Veteran

Thank you for sharing these stories. It's a complicated issue, so culturally loaded.

I've never wanted kids. It was important to me to marry a man who wanted the same thing. But having the choice for me was the important thing. What i resent about the aging process is that the choice is being taken away from me, even if i would never exercise it.

I think the concept of being able to have kids, for me, is tied with cultural concepts of attractiveness and visibility, similar to some thoughts expressed on the being current thread, where the desire to remain current became more important as one aged.

catgirl

Veteran

I knew you all would be thoughtful and responsive... Shannon, your story is just - wow. I am even happier, if possible, that your son has graduated with you and your husband at his side.

Janet, you are completely right. Who is to say what makes another person's life meaningful? I have many child-free friends who are poets, or climbers, or have chosen some particular focus in their life that gives them deeply felt joy and satisfaction while I scrabble just to get through the day. And there are many experiences I will NOT have as a result of having a kid - like being able to retire, for instance.

I guess my point was that the usual clichés about how all women need to be mothers just made me more adamant about finding MY way. It is hard enough having a child in the best of relationships, financial circumstances, and mental/emotional stability, let alone the importance of not just giving in to pressure. Could there be a more personal choice than this one?

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

I had very traditional ambitions to be married with kids from a young age but followed a very circuitous route to get there. I had a very special knack for attracting people and situations that were pretty much counter productive to my goals and I am very lucky that at 33 or so met my husband, someone completely unlike my former boyfriends in every way I can think of, and had the stroke of brilliance to fall for him! I had some trouble getting pregnant - I needed some medical intervention but not IVF, and consider myself incredibly lucky to have my three darlings. (Even if they often drive me crazy.) But I have friends that are childless by choice, friends that have struggled for years to have children, friends that have adopted, and I would never assume my choices or preferences would be right for them or theirs for me. I am vehemently opposed to that kind of imposition of values.

Echo

Veteran

I never really had any DESIRE to have children (like when people talk about "baby fever" or the ticking of a biological clock), but I knew academically that they were part of my plan. And my DH and I discussed our plans for children prior to marriage, of course, as it is crucial to be on the same page on that issue.

While I was pregnant, I was sure I'd made a huge mistake. I felt nothing for the baby inside, and I felt like a weird science experiment. I despised pregnancy. But that changed when my first son was born, so much so that I worried when I was pregnant with our second that I couldn't possibly care for another child the way I did for our first (which, of course, isn't true).

But I really, really hate the pressure so many women feel to become parents. A lot of people simply don't WANT to be parents, and the societal message ought to be that that is completely fine and a very valid choice. A person becoming a parent because of societal pressure instead of a desire to have children is a crime, IMO, and is done to the detriment of the individual and the child.

Not to get too deeply philosophical, but I think a lot of it comes down to society valuing women for something other than who they are and what they offer as an individual. Women are so often the object of political culture wars, stereotyped in too many ways to count, and looked upon as suspect if they forego having children for a career or other desires in life. Women are still objectified in so many ways, both subtle and overt. Until we as a society get to the place where there is no expectation whatsoever that women will automatically want to reproduce, we won't see women valued for their gifts as people, IMO.

catgirl

Veteran

Echo, you articulated my feelings EXACTLY.

Why would anyone want to talk someone into having a child if they are even the slightest bit unsure? Even worse, I've heard people suggest having a baby to fix a failing marriage. That is CRAZY.

Mo

(website)

Veteran

This may be glib, since I have had wine with dinner and that tends to make me more curt. I never had the urge to mother. Never. I am one of 4 on my mom's side and one of 5 on my dad's. Babysat exactly once in my life, feeling very uncomfortable with it all the whole time. Never changed a diaper, held a newborn, etc. It is just not in me. Much like dirt biking on Yamaha's would not be in someone else, but I had fun with that growing up. No judgement, just fact.
I do have friends who became mothers much later (after 40). Some love it, and others will admit they struggle with their decision. Luckily, my BF and I both agree it is not for us. But then neither is traditional marriage and all that, so there ya go!

Gaylene

Veteran

A close friend and I bonded when we both admitted that we didn't care much for babies. Although we both admitted feeling that fierce love for our own babies when they were born, we also acknowledged that our real enjoyment in our children came when they were older. Not choosing to have a baby, therefore, has always seemed like quite a rational idea to me. But life has a way of throwing you an unexpected curveball and I ended up with two children before I was out of my twenties. Fortunately I was married to an older man who was totally ready to have children and delighted in taking care of them. He was, and is, an amazing father. I doubt that I could have done it without him. Single parents fill me with awe; truly, I don't know how they do it.

cheryle (Dianthus)

(website)

Veteran

I find this discussion extremely interesting.

I am a parent but would never consider pushing parenthood on another woman. I believe quite strongly that having a child is the biggest commitment one can ever make in life and it should not be done lightly. There are far too many children whose parents decided too late that parenting was not the right choice for them (my sister among them). I believe strongly that pressuring women to feel the need to have a child to feel fulfilled or complete or creating a feeling of inadequacy or implying selfishness in those who choose not to have children is a disservice to society. It is difficult enough to raise a child in a healthy, happy environment when it is a choice. I can't imagine how difficult it would be if it was something one didn't want to do.

I have friends who are childless by choice and lead very happy and fulfilling lives and a friend who is in her mid-30s who desperately wants to experience parenting but has had many challenges. I never felt that overwhelming need to have a child but looking back, do feel that my life has been enhanced by being a parent and my son is my greatest source of pride. He is well-adjusted, caring and generous and if he chooses to not ever have children, I will support that decision as much as I would support the choice to have them.

Raisin

Veteran

So many great, and touching stories, thanks for sharing.

I think I wanted children from early on, but I don't really know why, it was just kind of there. So since I got married early (20) I got pregnant with my first early (22). Unfortunately, I also lost that baby, and that was the biggest heartbreak in my life. I desperately wanted a baby after that, and luckily we had my first DS shortly after.

But I then learned that babies are damn hard! Lol, they are fantastic, but also very time consuming. And as much as I loved him, I can't say there isn't a part of me that misses that "me" time I sort of lost there. I went from school, to work, to married to kids. But the upside to starting early is that we are in a very good place now, and much farther ahead than most people I know of my age (29).

So naturally I thought kid 2 would be no problem, but after 2 years of trying, we were almost ready to give up. I had an laparoscopy done just to see if I had any endo, and lo and behold there was a mild case which the doctor removed, and I got pregnant 6 weeks later with our second DS!

It was really difficult not being able to get pregnant, and we talked about maybe doing in vitro or IUI, but I knew that I wasn't willing to put all the time, emotion and money into in at that point. My oldest was already 5 and I had already spent my 20's taking care of a baby and toddler, I hadn't planned on having babies forever. But our second little guy came just in the nick of time, and he's a perfect fit. The 5 year spread works really well for us.

My sister has just gotten pregnant though, and she sort of went back and forth for a long time on whether she wanted to or not. I know she felt a lot of pressure from parents (mothers!) on both sides. I used to tell her, kids are great, you will love them like you wouldn't believe possible and you'll never wish that you hadn't had them. BUT. There is something to be said for NOT having kids. It's ok to not want them, to want to live life for yourself. My DH has a friend at work, and they have a young girl about 18 months and he swears he will not have another kid because as he puts it, he's selfish. But I think that's ok. We should all be a little selfish, I mean it's our life too. I love my kids, so glad I have them, but I look forward to the days when they are older too. Not that I want these days to go faster because they do grow to fast, but both periods of life look equally enjoyable to me.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

The pressure some people put on women to have babies is so odd to me. Why does someone else care so much? Each person must live their own lives and be true to themselves. One of my friends who is my age (47) and childless just got married four years ago, and immediately her colleagues started peppering her with questions about having children. She has known ever since we were about 12 years old that she didn't want children, so she just rolls her eyes. She has a very demanding job and won't even get a dog because she's away from home so much -- how on earth would she care for a child?

Children are a huge blessing when you want them. Someone close to me once admitted that despite becoming a parent twice, she was never terribly excited about parenting. Even though she loves her children dearly, she said part of her envies the path I've taken. Part of this might be because she's never had a fully supportive partner in her spouse, which is a whole other aspect of parenting that often gets glossed over in the push by others in encouraging women to have babies.

I am a child of older parents, so I relate to Jeanne's comments too. I was a surprise baby, 10 years after my sister and several years after my mom was told she'd never get pregnant again. It's not always easy to be the child of older parents (the energy and patience thing, losing them at a relatively young age, etc), but there are good things about it too (they were much less strict with me than with my sister!).

I meant to add earlier, Lyn, I'm sorry to hear of your inability to have children, especially in light of your desire for that someday. My experience as a stepmother has made me believe that there are all sorts of ways we "parent" without being a traditional parent in the true sense of the word, and I have total confidence your nurturing instinct will make you an excellent medical professional. That, to me, is just as important as raising a child.

Mona

Veteran

So many great stories here and very thought provoking ideas. I got married when I was 20 and had my son when I was 22 without much thought about it. I assumed this is how it is supposed to be, you know, you get married and have kids. But I was completely surprised by how hard it was to raise kids. I did decided to have another one after 3 years. Although, I would not change a thing about my life, my kids have made me realized that parenthood is not for everyone. It is indeed a huge commitment. I would say it is the most biggest commitment ever to take on and yes, my boys have taught me so much about life but I strongly believe this is not the only way to experience the width and breadth of life. People who choose not to have kids are as much sensitive, strong and courageous as people with kids are so it is not like something important is missing from their life.

MsMary

Veteran

I always knew I wanted A child, but I also always knew I only wanted one. I had an unfortunate relationship with my brother growing up so I was very leery of sibling issues and chose to avoid them for my son. He was born when I was 26 and for me it was the right choice to have one, and to have him relatively early in life. And he has never minded being an "only."

That said parenthood is hard and I know it is perfectly possible to have a happy, deep, full, and meaningful life without children. Mr. K and I were together for 16 years without having children together, and I don't feel like that relationship was any less deep or meaningful because it was childless.

Honestly, I think there are a lot of people out there having children who would be better off without them.

MNsara

Veteran

What great, and thought provoking, comments!

I'm another who never really thrilled to babies, and I didn't have any motherhood goals. But by the time I was in my late twenties, I felt like motherhood was a party I hadn't been invited to. . . suddenly it was important to me. Our oldest was born when I was 28. It's the most all-consuming, never-ending, rewarding, and frustrating thing I've ever done, and probably will ever do!

I've always worked at least part-time while having & raising kids, and I feel like the peer pressure to have (or not have) children, and the pressure to work (or not work) can come from the same sort of desire to validate what these others chose to do.

I also think it's interesting that even being able to 'choose' is so recent -- it was't that long ago when there were no real choices, just whatever happened happened.

citygirldc

(website)

Veteran

I always thought I could have a child no matter what even though I really didn't think about it at an early age. Since I was such a late bloomer, I wanted to enjoy my life and travel and I did.

I met my husband later and married at the age of 34 and wanted to enjoy my time with him before having kids. By 36 we where trying and did not succeed and by the age of 37, we tried everything: IUI infertility treatments, 6 IVF treatments. Costs were exorbitant even with insurance. By age 39/40, the IVF treatments did not work, I could no longer afford treatments, my father was ill then passed away, hubby lost his job , and the icing on the cake, I had gained a lot of weight due those treatments. My self esteem was so low. My mother being from the old country would say things that would just hurt, although I know she didn't mean it that way. She just didn't know better. (Old world guilt is the worst)

I needed to get control of my life again so I finally made peace with my situation and knew I had done everything I could do in my power. My dear hubby was as supportive as could be. I'm sure he had a tough time too.

Oh, I still have my moments, but I know I have family and friends with children and I live vicariously through them. For now, I just enjoy my time with my husband, travel when we can, and I am perpetually young at heart.

Irene

Veteran

I'm still quite young to be talking about babies (or maybe I'm not, at 25). I don't have anyone to have kids with yet, and no job to pay for them, so it's really not one of my concerns at the moment. I've never given that much thought to being a mother but I have always assumed I would become one, when the time was right (preferably young, but I don't see that happening). I don't like children in general, but I know I would love to have my own kids.

I do hate how women -and especially newly moms- pressure their friends to become mothers as well. And I think people should be careful about that sort of comments unless they know the recipient of those comments well enough. Questions like 'When are you guys having a baby?' or 'When are you going to get married?' can be really harmful. What if one of the two doesn't believe in marriage but the other does? What if one of the two is sterile? What if she wants a kid but he doesn't and that's one of the couple's main miseries and probably the reason they are considering breaking up?

Having children is not as easy as just getting pregnant (which is hard for some people, anyways). There's so much more, and each person is different.

milehighstyle (Linda)

Veteran

I was never a baby or kid person either. Didn't like babysitting, never took care of my younger siblings. Didn't want to hold friends' or family member's babies. In my 20's I was quite certain that I would never want to have a baby and never even considered marriage until I was 30. Then at age 30 I started dating my now husband and I think it was being with the right person that changed my mind. Even then, it wasn't a driving force to have a child, more like we can try and if it doesn't happen no big deal. But it happened and even though it was the best thing I ever did I could have gone either way and have been just as happy. I would never say that being a Mom is a must. It's a life changer, for sure, but not everyone needs their life to be changed in that way.

lynne

Veteran

I've always liked kids, and knew from a very early age that what I wanted to do with my life was work with children. So all through middle school, high school, college I was babysitting, working in summer school programs and preparing to be a teacher. I taught for 31 years, was good at it and loved it. That being said, I also always knew that I didn't really want children for myself. I love other people's children but haven't felt the desire to parent. I don't regret not having children, but sometimes I feel regret for not wanting them; I feel a little left out. And I have felt marginalized for not procreating but that's OK. My DH and I have a good life and we are happy. We are the stereotypical middle aged childless couple with our child substitute dogs.

DonnaF

Veteran

I really love the non-parents in my daughter's life who are available to love and mentor her. This is particularly important to me as we are older parents, and she has no aunts, uncles, or cousins nearby. I feel that the dynamic with people who aren't parents (or at least not parents with kids her age) is somehow cleaner and less fraught.

Also -- have any of you mothers noticed this? I have chronic allergies, but ever since I got pregnant more than 20 years ago, my sense of smell has been much sharper. I used to have a terrible sense of smell due to a chronically stuffed nose, and my nose is still stuffed up most of the time. But dang!!! I can now smell EVERYTHING! I thought this would go away after kiddo got older and needed less protection. . . .But no. I can still smell urban skunks from miles away. Very inconvenient.

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