What happens when what you like conflicts with the image you want to project? - YouLookFab Forum

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What happens when what you like conflicts with the image you want to project?

gryffin

Veteran

YLF is like an enchanted witch's cauldron this week. So many interesting threads keep taking my thoughts in different directions: Angie's thread on dressing for her "audience" and Adelfa's spin off, kind of mixed and collided with Cocolion's and Rae's denim threads. Now my head is bubbling over with thoughts, I've been trying to sort out. You see, I really like those sweatshirt jeans but I really wanted the overalls. I wanted them, I wanted them a lot. But I didn't buy them and I don't think I'm going to. In the past if I really liked something and could see my self wearing it, making it into multiple outfits, that would have been enough to justify a purchase. So what stopped me, well that's the really interesting part. I realized that those overalls do not project the image that I wish to convey. Polished, refined, elegant, poised, needs to be just as important as RATE, edgy, unfussy and comfortable. As much as I've pondered, asked/answered, and posted on "image," I don't think I ever filtered every potential new purchase through that acid test of "image." I am hoping if I can keep the image I want to project foremost in my mind, and evaulate each purchase in that context, maybe I can finally hone and streamline my wardrobe and my new purchases. So that's my plan. But I wonder, what do you do when you see something that you love, would wear and enjoy, but it does not represent the image that you want to project? Do you enjoy it anyway, I mean fashion is all about fun? or do you pass, dig your heels in, and only purchase things that express you real image? Thoughts?

General

60 replies

Latest reply was from Beth Ann

missvee

Veteran

Hmm, I think my approach to a potential purchase is twofold. First I have to create some outfits in my head and then I have to imagine where I'd wear them and how I'd feel in them. I suppose that feeling good about what I'm wearing must mean that I'm happy with the image it projects?
What an interesting post...lots to ponder here.

Helena

Veteran

That's an interesting slant Gryffin. I think that if I say myself getting wear out of it, and feeling good while doing so, I would buy it. For the most part, pieces that would fit those criteria are going to fit in with my 'image' or style direction ... I used to follow a system that had a very prescribed set of rules designed to support a particular image ... what I found quite quickly is that it stops feeling authentic when it's too tightly managed - I almost felt like a character - we're just too complex for that.

So my opinion is (thinking as I write ) that IF you can see yourself wearing it, liking it, feeling good in it, having somewhere appropriate TO wear it ... then perhaps it does fit with your image, and perhaps the definition you've put on your image needs to be expanded a bit to reflect this new piece of information?

I think.

thought provoking as always, Gryffin!

gryffin

Veteran

missvee - I think that's exactly the question: " I suppose that feeling good about what I'm wearing must mean that I'm happy with the image it projects?" For me, I would have felt good and happy in those overalls, I had shortalls in the past and I had fun with them. But it's not the image I want to project. For me, I think this is a huge schism. So that's why I'm really interested to see if happiness=good image for people, or happiness is only a part distinct from image that must be reconciled. Oy, my head is pounding!!

Helena

Veteran

Gryffin, another thought - image is about context too (to Angie points in the audience post). Work image, church image, family image, friends image, etc. could all be different. Do your image keywords apply to all areas? or is there perhaps a role that these overalls would be perfect for your image (poor English there, sorry!)

gryffin

Veteran

torontogirl - I think you've made an excellent point. It's definitely agree with the notion that "I am large, I contain multitudes." I just think there are versions of almost any item we can imagine and some versions will better fit the image we want to convey. For example, the denim overalls would have limited uses - mostly hanging out at home or really casual events. But silky black overalls (do they even make such a thing?) could be the base for a broader range of outfits. But keeping image in mind, I am forced to seek out the riffs of items that will ultimately best support my authentic style and be most versatile, if that makes any sense. I guess, in a way, it's superego assisting id to make the best choices to reinforce ego! How's that for too much thinking on a friday night!

gryffin

Veteran

torontogirl - right again. All good thoughts. It's not that there is not a role for those overalls, I think I am trying to really slim down my wardrobe. I don't think I can ever quality for a minimalist number, too many roles I do have to dress for, but I would like a more tightly curated closet. Gosh, if I bought everything I liked, well the bank account and my closets would explode. But I've never really figured out how to prioritize and weirdly enough I think this approach might help me to do that. Is that totally weird?

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I know this is something Gaylene has mentioned a number of times and I am pretty sure she considers the image she wants to project before making any purchase. And it may be at the heart of many of our posts about age appropriateness.

I think some of this will depend on your dominant style persona or aesthetic. If you are a true elegant eclectic, there's probably nothing that does conflict! You can find a way to work almost anything in. Whereas if you are a sort of pure avant-garde or modern minimalist, it's going to be more difficult to reconcile the funky retro shoes, the quirky patterns, the dungarees, the Liberty prints, or the dandy lace into your overall look without feeling a bit schizophrenic. (Having said that, some people manage to do this. I think it's all about confidence.)

When it comes to the image we want to project, do we even know what it is we are projecting? Doesn't that depend on our audience? Aren't their perceptions sometimes different than we might imagine?

Even by geography this varies. Never mind social class (which is huge) or age or profession.

So many times I have put on a blazer and pencil skirt and posted it as a possible outfit. And inevitably, I will get half a dozen people saying that it looks too "corporate." Which leaves me scratching my head in wonder. Because to me, blazers and pencil skirts (with booties and unusual knits or silk blouses or sweatshirts or whatever) do NOT spell "corporate" -- not in the least. I don't even think a suit is necessarily corporate looking. It's all in the styling. Yet this is clearly the image I am projecting (to some) -- even if, to me, the components, individually and together, are a more creative look.

Then, in the mountains, I put on what to me are casual boots. Low heeled, simple, slightly rugged, not slick at all. And several of the men make comments about me being a fashionista.

I don't think we have a huge amount of control over what other people think, in short. Yes...in the broad strokes, in specific environments -- we all know what this means in our own corners of the world. But inevitably some people are going to be reading a different message than the one we think we're sending.

Would I wear the dungarees to work if i were in your shoes? (ha ha) No, probably not. But on the weekends? Yes, I might -- if I could style them in a way that felt authentic.

Sarah A

Veteran

This is thought provoking gryffin. I doubt I would have experienced the style evolution I have if I was worried about my maintaining a "work image" which probably includes your "Polished, refined, elegant, poised" decscriptors to a large extent. The style growth process can be difficult when trying to look competent in your job, there have been days of misses while working to find the hits!. Now, if I were to go back to working in an office setting I would probably take aspects of my current style and tweak them a bit to be office appropriate. So perhaps experimenting in parts of our image allow our whole to grow? Part of this is maybe how consistent or ecclectic you desire you style to be... Have you decided that "Polished, refined, elegant, poised" always must be there for you? Does the order change depending on the occasion? Is there an occasion where the overalls allow you to do that, although poised and overalls in particular I am challenged to imagine the outfit. I dont really know what I am try to say here so please excuse the ramble... maybe there is a bit in here somewhere!?

ETA: Cross posted, I see your point about prioritizing and why you would choose against the overalls. And, can I just change to "ditto, what Suz said"...

missvee

Veteran

Yes I see your point Gryffin, but I don't believe that the schism exists for me. I can't think of a single outfit that would truly feel good and not reflect the image I wanted to project. Now you've got me wondering why - maybe I'm a very formulaic dresser, or perhaps the image I want to project is wide enough to encompass many facets. Yet more to ponder - you always post the most interesting topics.

ironkurtin

Veteran

The things I like are so much a part of me that they naturally project what I want them to project.

I suppose that if I worked in a very corporate office or did a lot of manual labor, I would have more challenges. Otherwise, I assume the things I like most are a natural extension of mne and not a contradiction.

gryffin

Veteran

Suz - this is very interesting because you took my thoughts in a way I had not intended. You see in my mind, in this conversation, I am using "image" as my inner vision of how I want to see me, not how other people are going to interpret that image. I agree totally, there is no way that any two people will perceive me in the same way. We just have no control over that. What I'm trying to say is, I want to stay true to the image, in my head, of how my most authentic and best self should look.

Gigi

Veteran

"I guess, in a way, it's superego assisting id to make the best choices to reinforce ego! How's that for too much thinking on a friday night!"

This has to be the craziest fashion forum on the Internet, lol! I love you, gryffin. :^)

I'm still trying to find my style, plus I work at home, so I have fewer worries about what image I am projecting. But I do often have my brain assist my heart, which is I think another way of saying what you said in philosophical terms (I'm terrible at philosophy).

If I find myself attracted to something that really seems like it would send the wrong message to those around me, I analyze what it is about the item that is a problem, what it is about the item that I like, etc., and then try to figure out what kind of similar item *would* both make me happy *and* also project what I want to project.

Your example about the overalls was perfect. You're not simply nixing overalls completely but are modifying something about them (the fabric) to make them fit the image that you want to portray. Like it or not, different venues require different ways of dressing. I guess that's what I think of when I think of "image": is the way I'm dressing suitable for the venue?

Echo

Veteran

I think it is worth considering why something we love would not convey the image we want to project. Isn't image - at least to some extent - being true to who we are? And if who we are is in conflict with what we want to project, then who/what should win in that scenario? It would seem that when the two conflict, then what we want to project is not compatible with who we are. I think that often happens to many people, but in an ideal world shouldn't we work to rectify the two?

It really is an interesting conundrum, and I don't have the answer. I just know that usually when I do not feel comfortable expressing who I really am or when the image I feel I should project is not congruent with what I love or want to wear, that usually means I am not comfortable expressing who I really am in that situation or to those people. I think it is worth considering why that is happening.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

2 points:

1. I think there is a difference between the image that you think you are projecting - and how others perceive the image. It may not be the same - and as Suz suggests, it's very contextual. Image lies in the eye of the beholder.

2. Gryffin, personally I believe in assigning ourselves a set of style defining adjectives - like you've chosen, polished, refined, elegant, poised, unfussy and comfortable. By using them as a checklist, it can really help us focus on whether the items that enter our wardrobe are in line with our style goals and aspirations. I use this technique with my clients, and for myself. For the last three years my adjectives have been: modern, dressy, bold, crisp and simple. I can't tell you how it has helped hone the next leg of my style journey.

So all that was rambling context to bring me to your question, which is what do you do with the items that are outliers to your style descriptors, or your image. Well. We're all allowed to venture off the beaten track a little. Our wardrobes don't need to be 100% practical, and they don't need to be 100% in line with our aspiring image. Sometimes we have to listen to our hearts, for no other reason but to be rebellious. No one wants to be boxed into a category all the time. Freedom is power.

gryffin

Veteran

Sarah - you are very wise!! You don't need to ditto Suz. You are fab just as you!! So interesting. Actually my mantra is very similar to the Vivienne files: classic, elegant, timeless, understated and unique. Trust me, this can include anything frock coats to moto boots. It covers a vast territory. But for all those disparate elements to live in harmony I feel having a clear aesthetic viewpoint, a sartorial North Star, would be really helpful.
Missvee - well I am totally gobsmacked!! You obviously already have what I am looking for. Total harmony between what you love and want to wear being in total agreement with how you want to look. I am so totally impressed! Kudos!!
IK - you seem to have fantastic balance too. I was in a coffee shop ages ago. There was a young woman in line and she had on jeans but with a very beautifully fitted black knit jacket and boots. Totally minimal, sleek but easy with such casual elegance, I just wanted to dress like her. That was my inner vision of me but I was not expressing it. I loved the embroidered jacket I was wearing, as I might love a piece if art, but it did not reflect the visual image I wanted to be making. In the same way, I love many styles in decorative arts but I decorated my home in a cohesive fashion with a distinct point of view. The rooms reflect their function and varying degrees of formality but they all share a single aesthetic but despite that restriction they span antiques, Louis V & VII, faux finishes, rattan, inlaid tile tables, huge baritone windchimes , oversized chess sets. You get the picture...eclectic counterpoint and juxtaposition striving to embrace a dynamic whole. You'd really think if I could manage that in a whole house a closet would be easy!! Sheesh!!

gryffin

Veteran

Gigi - gosh girl. You so totally crack me up!! Very insightful. Being suitably dressed for a venue is so important. Very much in feeling with Angie's discussion on her "audience." There is a true graciousness when we dress with empathy and respect while remaining true to ourselves. What truly amazes me is how differently but brilliantly people manage to do it.
Echo - you are so smart and so articulate. I agree with everything you've said. But Echo, there is one teensy problem. What if love many, many things and enjoy many aesthetics? What if we really bought every item we loved? Our wardrobes could become gorgeous havens of goodies that could become totally unworkable. Like too much dessert - delightful to indulge but too much might not be good for us. I do believe style requires discipline. That does not mean I don't have plans to totally decimate the dessert buffet on occasion!!
Angie - both excellent points. Here I'm just using image to mean the way I see, or want to see, myself. Agree our image is unique to each beholder. I can try, as you do, to adapt to my audience but you can't control their perceptions. I have to laugh, I have a real rebellious streak, so I am nodding and agreeing on a real visceral level. I can practically hear Richie Havens singing "Freedom" in the background. I so agree sometimes you have to follow your heart. But YFL presents the challenge of too many stylish ladies who find way too many gorgeous goodies, and I will have to turn in my moniker and crawl back into my shell if I am not selective in my indulgences !!

DonnaF

Veteran

gryffin: I used to wear overalls and shortall a LOT in high school. My biggest memory now about them is that they were a total PITA when going to the bathroom, especially dirty public ones. I would inevitably stick a pencil or pen in that chest pocket -- which would of course fall out. Thank goodness this was before cell phones! And those straps! Another thing to be mindful of in the bathroom. Don't want to get them wet!!!

Just trying to remind you of another reason why overalls aren't elegant. . . .

Actually, I still kinda like them, but at age 60+ I'm passing this look up. Youthful is okay, but *young* is not for me. I will still wear my colorful tights, however. But just not for work.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Hmmm. I think I understand you a bit better now. If I'm reading you right, this is less about "image" (how we appear to others) and more about what to do if we're seriously attracted to some item that will make us feel inauthentic in the wearing. Or that will make us feel some sort of cognitive or emotional dissonance. Even if others would find it perfectly appropriate, flattering, or what have you.

Well, I'll tell you what I do when that happens, heh heh heh.

Sometimes, I take a deep breath and walk on. No no no, I tell myself. It may be fun, funky, feminine (insert other adjective du jour here) but it is so not me, so forget it.

Sometimes, I buy it anyway. I say: Yes, this is out of my comfort zone, but it might be exactly what I need to put some zest in my game. I am looking at YOU, orange pants.

And you see what happened there. I promptly donated them, without having ever worn them out of the house.

On the other hand....there are equally unexpected items that have truly have stretched my style, made my season, found a way into my overall aesthetic. Often these items are of the timeless yet unusual/ statement sort: the vintage kimono; the distressed slouchy jeans before those were common on women of a certain age like myself.

Sometimes it's precisely the items that feel outside your usual aesthetic that allow you to indulge in "unexpected outfit juxtaposition." If we always bought what we always buy, we'd never evolve and grow. So while I think it's really important to cleave to our chosen style statement or adjectives or to keep our "rubric" or our style persona in mind as we shop, it's also important to listen to the stirrings of new love.

Maybe your craving for those overalls is telling you something.

Gaylene

Veteran

This is such a good question, Gryffin, because I think it gets to the heart of what happens to one's relationship with fashion when one gets older.

Playing with fashion, adopting new trends as fast as they come out, and buying with our hearts are all ways to help us define our wardrobes so we start to feel more confident that our outward appearance can align with our inner self. Experimentation and change are usually an important part of this process because our tastes, emotions, and choices keep morphing as we try to find what makes us feel most authentically ourselves.

I think, though, as we grow older, we become less inclined towards constant re-invention; for most part, most of us eventually end up with some sense of how we want to present ourselves to others in way that seems authentic and real. This direction isn't static, but changing it is more evolution than revolution. We still can hear that siren call from the fashion world, but, if something doesn't align with that innate sense of ourselves, we have to consider whether it is worth the diversion. Personal style seems like a rather grandiose way of putting it, but maybe that's what makes us willing to reject something without regret even when it sings to us?

gryffin

Veteran

Donna - oh I hear you on the straps!! Only undo one side, that is key and public restrooms, well let's not get started on that!! But you did give me quite a chuckle and you go girl with those colored tights
Suz - I am totally with you. We must leave room to be adventurous. I do experiment. Same thoughts, some turned out to be great finds and some leave with tags on. But I do find that those unusual picks are most successful when they play well with my overall (sorry had to do it) aesthetic. I'd buy a vintage kimono or that velvet Fauntleroy jacket in a heartbeat!!

Suz

(website)

Veteran

haha....too funny..."overall" aesthetic.

And yes, I agree....and I guess that is where Angie's adjectives become so important. You have to pick them right. For instance...the orange pants. (Just my most recent example).

In some ways, they did fit perfectly with my overall aesthetic. They were a simple, modern classic style of slim pant, without excessive detailing. And while in general, I prefer to wear my key neutrals, I have also worn and adored many colourful items, including coloured bottoms.

But they just didn't feel right. Why? I suspect if I figured out my adjective well enough, the answer would be staring me in the face and I could prevent myself from further mistakes of that kind.

gryffin

Veteran

Gaylene - you are so eloquent. I feel like you've taken the thoughts out of my head but given them such clarity. I do think we all continue to evolve otherwise we'd stagnate. But you're right, in that perhaps it becomes more selective evolution. Right now I am exploring more avant garde styles, HL, asymmetry, these are new and exotic to me but a natural progression and exploration of my personal aesthetic, harmonious,yet totally new in a way the denim overalls could not be. I think that for me is the key. You are very wise and have given me much to ponder.

gryffin

Veteran

Oh Suz!! Now you've just gone and said it.....if we could just figure it out!! Such a simple concept and such a complex task!! I do think colored bottoms are fun but I do not like colored or patterned bottoms on me. I found 7FAM black on black brocade jeans. Right color, perfect fit, goes with everything and I could not send then back fast enough. But guaranteed if that had been a jacket it would be in rotation. Go figure!! I guess at the end of the day it's still "know thyself!"

catgirl

Veteran

What a fascinating question. I would say I have the opposite problem: the image I want to portray (unless you mean this as the image I "need" to portray) conflicts with what I have to wear. I always like items that epitomize what I want to look like - tough, prepared for apocalypse, RATE, edgy. Meanwhile, in real life I need to look professional, competent, and conservative. Talk about cognitive dissonance!

jennifer

Veteran

Reminds me of a old Cathy comic strip . Cathy is in the ladies room touching up her makeup while waiting her turn for the facilities . She hears an "Aaaauughh! I dropped my sleeve in the toilet! " and sees another woman race out to rinse/wash/rinse and desperately try to dry her sleeve . She thinks-how could ANYONE be so stupid ! rolling her eyes to the celing and dismissivly waving her hand . Then she does the same thing (sleeve of jumpsuit in toilet ) .

At work we had a sleeveless jumpsuit .It might have been interesting to try ---except that it DID have a hood .And somehow that just did not sound like something I wanted to deal with in a restroom (even at home!).

rachylou

Veteran

For me, I'm trying to develop disclipline. So often I see something that's just cool and want to try my hand at it, but the result had so often been great outfits with a lot of nothing to wear. And those great outfits have also often been misleading as to who I am, the cause of cognitive dissonance. So for me, learning to say no has been and continues to be important. Ok. Back to the bread. Bagels are up!

catgirl

Veteran

Something about this question reminded me of this old thread:

http://youlookfab.com/welookfa.....ife-i-lead

in which I (along with many others) described my internal self-image vs. my reality. And that has not changed at all... Grr.

Deborah

Veteran

Great topic. This made me consider what is already in my wardrobe that IMO doesn't really reflect the image that I like to present, but is still something I love and somehow works. Sometime back I was completely enamored with the floral jacket trend. I am so not a floral girl. Truth be told I have a low tolerance for florals. But I had to have one, so I chose one in my usual colour palette (black and white) and chose one that was blazer style and quite structured. I wear it with black white and greys and only wear it over my slouchy black pants. I add edgy footwear and to my eye, I make it mine. To my mind, worn over a pencil skirt and pumps would look lovely but wouldn't be 'me'. So I think when I try something outside of my norm, I need to ask how I feel in it? Do I like how I look in it? Does it create the look I want for me? And how will it play with my other pieces. For me the question might be "can I make this look edgy and modern" for your Gryffin it might be 'can i make this looked polished and elegant"? If the answer is no I will leave it behind, because I know from experience I will wear it once and never wear it again lol

Ps.. my 2014 version of this outfit would be sans necklaces:)

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gryffin

Veteran

Una - I love your description!! I so relate to "tough, prepared for apocalypse, RATE, edgy" but I want that combined with "professional, competent, and conservative." I'm looking for that whole package in one outfit. But I can see if you tried to split them out it could drive you crazy!! Definitely a one way ticket to sartorial multiple personality disorder. Do you think your new purchases - JP dress esp with the necklace and gidigios achieves all of that? From my vantage point - I see you heading toward being able to combine all these elements simultaneously. Does even that fab outfit, still not feel entirely you? I want to read the thread you posted. Will comment back later. Very interested to see where you journey takes you. I know you've felt at odds with work and true style, but I think the outfits you've posted are wonderful. I hope you find that perfect happy balance soon!!
Jennifer - that is so funny and yes, oy, could be too true!! Right up there with dropping your cell phone in the portapotty (yes, happened to a really good friend with a brand new phone) I am actualy checking out the jumpsuits. I know they are horribly impractical but I also wear one piece swimsuits and that's a wrestling match in the loo too. Just trying to have the best of all worlds without making too many pricey mistakes and not making the most of my clothing allowance. But I don't think that image of the sleeve will leave my head for a long time!!
rachylou - I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head. YLF presents so much temptation in a way that magazines do not. Real fantastic people wearing stunning clothes and the knee jerk mental response is that is so graet I want to try that. The hooker is that those pieces don't necessarily represent us. You've said it so clearly and eloquently, I am just going to keep nodding and rereading your words!! Thank you for articulating it so lucidly!!
Deborah - I remember this piece well and I love it on you. I loved Angie in her Zara blazer so much that I bought it. I'd watch you two wear this so wonderfully but every time I put that blazer on all I could see was blazer. I could not see me any more. I'd pull it out and take it off. This went on for months. It never made it out of the house. I loved it but I never wore it and it finally went sadly to donation. It was perfect, a combo of all my colors (gosh as you know) versatile, fit perfectly, went with everything but was just plain wrong. Still even can't explain it. Maybe too much pattern for my stature (or lack there of) small features etc. But "I" got lost in it, although I think it's really, really beautiful and I love it. But I still click back to those picture every once in awhile of you and Angie to visit the jacket. That's how much I like it but I am relieved to have stopped trying to make it work for me. PS I've always thought this looked divine on you!!

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