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Alternative Elder Style : Dowdy?

Gaylene

Veteran

Another perspective on elder style:
http://passagedesperles.blogsp.....-from.html
"Seems to me that women my age are obsessed about not looking old, but I am beginning to be obsessed with how I will look, old."

Fighting and denying gets so ingrained in us, it was refreshing to contemplate accepting and embracing. With my 66th birthday close at hand, I am old, and, with good luck, I'll continue to get older. And, since I never looked like Helen Mirren or Jane Fonda in my youth, I have a hard time thinking of them as role models for my senior years.

I'm also nodding my head at Duchesse's comment "Strangely, the fear of being dowdy has receded. I'm reaching the age when I can, with quiet pleasure, wear the sort of clothes I always liked best. " Now that I'm in my mid-sixties, I'm more amused than offended at younger women calling my choices "dowdy". I like looking at fashion trends, but I can't say I much want to wear most of them and I suspect that feeling is a big part of my reluctance to not post WIW pictures. After all, how would HRH's choices be evaluated by forum members...

It seems like I am not alone judging from the comments on Duchesse's blog, but I wonder if I've aged out on YLF? I haven't given up on fashion by a long shot, but I'm definitely heading in a different direction in my duffle coat, slim black pants, mariner, and boots--more HRH than Carmen Dell'Orefice.

Am I an outlier--or are there others like me secretly lurking on the forum?

ETA: And henceforth we need to refer to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II as HM, not HRH (Her Royal Highness). Adelfa, fortunately, is helping us keep our heads if word ever gets back to the Palace about this thread. Apparently Henry VIII decided that "Highness" needed to be bumped up to "Majesty"--and we all know how those who defied his wishes ended up.

Dressing

83 replies

Latest reply was from Suz

Jeweled

Veteran

Gaylene, I love the words you quoted, "I can, with quiet pleasure, wear the sort of clothes I always liked best". Yes. I think we can all do that at every age. In fact, that's pretty much my goal and it's what I'm doing now too.

I don't think you've aged out of YLF, or out of personal style. If you're enjoying curating and wearing your wardrobe, age is irrelevant.

I'm in my early 50's and like you I'll never resemble any of the lovely stylish older ladies who are famous - but I can't see a time when I would ever not be interested in the pleasure of collecting and wearing a wardrobe I love. And I'm looking forward to seeing how my style will continue to evolve throughout the rest of my life.

I hope you'll stay around here and continue the journey with us, Gaylene!

p.s. I would love to see some of your outfits, if you'd like to share them!

unfrumped

Veteran

I hope not!

I think there is a definite preponderance of "new" and "what's new" on the forum and that just comes with the territory of a fashion blog, I think. So I am trying also to stay balanced and not throw out the baby with the bathwater--enjoy what I enjoy and not worry.

Does that mean there might be other websites that hit more of your buttons? Probably. I am using some of the less-shopping and capsule blogs for inspiration and encouragement because that is more my future, after "work". Classic clothing, longevity, liking what I like--all take on more meaning after the rush of realizing I have fashion opportunities but don't have to use them all.

And then there is the whole flip side of activities and discussions about not-fashion--gardening, reading, people, places. I am enjoying some YLF'ers posts not just because of their fashion comments, but because of what they are doing.

--Joy is doing a great re-mixing/wardrobe evaluation thread and I'm enjoying that. I feel so there, myself--want to do more of that.
--Travel wardrobes, packing, luggage all seem very relevant
--Kid-proof but still stylish clothing is likely to become newly important if I become a grandmother!

A big constant for me is fit, fit, fit. So many outfits that I would view as "dowdy" and hope I don't go there have major fit issues. Now, this is a real-life challenge with aging because of changes in body shape and flexibility, or illness, can up-end many of the assumptions such as "all you need is good tailoring".. Sometimes, yes, a problem is solved if you get the waist tailored rather than rely on full elastic, or hem the skirt to the sweet spot rather than off the rack, and don't wear the pants 2" too short. But, sometimes, not. It does mean that there may be certain styles and fabrics that fit better for very practical reasons and so one may end up choosing those over other style details that create fit problems.
(Point of all that is that blogs and photos can help keep me in tune with good fit and drape--what takes ordinary or meh or dowdy and makes it really good.)

I think we need a category title of "Re-mixing" , and maybe one on "Longevity report" --report on which items are standing the test of time 5 or 10 years on!

always trying

Veteran

I too am "old". too old for shorts and sleeveless, but not too old for fashion. I dress for me. Comfort, the occasion, weather, and what exactly what I will be doing are my only concerns when I leave my house.

I too feel sometimes I am too old for YLF, but have sometimes posted WIW's. I do have concerns about being frumpy, but my definition of that term seems to be different than

some on here. I sometimes find things I would consider frumpy, mostly shoes, but do not comment.

I too never looked like those "old" fashion bloggers, etc. when I was young, and also I have not had all that cosmetic work done. I see women my age with very tightened faces, but when it is hot they wear more revealing clothes and the rest of them sure don't match their faces. I figure if I wanted to look younger I would have to have major stuff, arms, legs, and whole body lifts, so what is the use...

hardest part about fashion for me in getting older is covering up. I do a lot of outdoor activities and am in a warm climate. Maybe when I get really old I will just say the &*## with it, and run around in short shorts and bikini top.

Angie has posted on the blog a couple of "older" fashion bloggers, like in their 70's, and I check out some other blogs, but they definately are not me. I feel i have nothing in common with them..My lifestlye is nothing like what theirs is. my casual consists of gear( not the spandex stuff) for sports, I wear jeans with sneakers not heels or booties, cargo pants with running or hiking shoes,

deb

Veteran

I am old also but, this year I decided to embrace my arms and go sleeveless. I like my arms and find them very useful so why not show a little arm skin? In fact, I like the look of sleeveless tops and dresses on me better than short sleeved tees. This may sound horrible but as I age I do not want to dress like my mom. So, my goal is to be stylish for my age. Another issue I find is sometimes I feel my age due to health issues but do not look my age. So, as we age how do we address this?

Astrid

Veteran

I guess it's not really the same, but I find I'm thinking a lot less about the ominous term "frumpy" lately. I've also realized I'm not that interested in trends - being trendy and in fashion isn't important to me. I like nice clothes and want to find a style that is mine, but I'm not really interested in keeping up with the last new thing out there. And when I do some people watching out there I find those who do their own thing and stay true to it a lot more interesting, to be honest.

Peri

Veteran

Goodness, don't leave us! I always like your perspective. And yes, I'm not in style either and I do a lot more than lurk. I feel like we are well represented on YLF. I know there are plenty of members who get to choose clothes based on looks and likes alone, but there are also tons of us just wanting to do our best within limitations, whatever those are.

For all the articles preaching to us about how not to look "old", I'm glad to see some saying "why not?". Youth is not a guarantee of good fashion...I think young women make bad fashions decisions just as easily. (and I'm not talking the ones that involve dressing too "dowdy", I'm talking about the ones that involve dressing too tacky!) It's just that we seem to forgive them faster. That's just our culture I guess, wanting to deny aging. So stick around and help us balance things out!!

Gaylene

Veteran

Jeweled, you've actually zeroed in on the exactly the disconnect I'm feeling--a declining interest in collecting and evolving. Once I decided to up the quality of what I bought, the wardrobe churning went way down. If I was spending serious money, I wanted longevity. That alone made a huge difference in what I bought--in style, cut, fit, and colour. And, I've come to the realization that my "style" evolution, at this stage of my life, is best described as glacial. I have my "uniform" and I'm quite happy repeating it over and over because it is ME. In my early 50s, the very thought of this would have been horrifying, but now it seems right.

Unfrumped, like you, I do enjoy the non-fashion aspects and I suspect that is what makes me keep coming back. And, I totally agree that fit is what concerns me most at my age--along with cut, fabrication and colour. It's interesting that these are also the elements that are hardest to discern in a photograph. The re-mixing, kid-proofing, and travel capsules aren't as compelling, although they are important to others. I've always found it easy to pack a carryon for a trip because I don't get bored with a well-chosen uniform. Maybe another sign of age?

Helena

Veteran

Gaylene:

"I'm definitely heading in a different direction in my duffle coat, slim black pants, mariner, and boots"

Have you seen my WIWs??? I am basically you except 40 and in jeans I think and hope there is room on here for every style and taste and age. I personally love HRHs style - it is quintessentially her, which is the hallmark of all great style. If you feel good in what you are wearing, you are guaranteed to look good to me and many

Anonymous

I think a lot of the "dowdy" talk is from younger women who are uncomfortable with the prospect of finding themselves in older bodies, not realizing that they will most likely have matured mentally too.
Gaylene, please don't go. I like HRH style. It's not "You look Fashionable", it's "You Look Fab", and she totally does.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I was thinking about something similar when carter posted her recent sandal thread saying her daughter had called them too grandma. I mean, what does that mean? I don't know carter's exact age, but my guess is that she's old enough to be biologically a grandma. So basically we're insulting people by telling them they look as old as they are? I doubt that any of us would relish looking a lot older than we are, but what's wrong with being okay looking your age?

I do think a lot of traditional fashion stuff is all about the pursuit of newness / current ness and of youth, and it's hard to know how to have other kinds of conversations about it.

old chic

Oh, my goodness, please don't go! I know I am always looking for the perspective of others my age, and I've been finding this community very supportive. Like you, I am not terribly interested in what's the newest thing right now. At 66, I have seen most of it before, anyway. But I am still interested in the ways people of all ages combine colors and shapes and adapt proportions to suit the individual. There's plenty of that on here.
And I'm also fascinated with finding ways to express myself through clothing/style that are distinctive, regardless of my age and overly plump, sagging figure. I can't imagine losing interest in that goal any sooner than I'll lose interest in speaking my mind. If others think it's frumpy, or mutton-dressed-as-lamb, or just ridiculous, too darn bad for them. As long as your "uniform" is what you like to wear, you're in the sweet spot. Maybe you'll find some new things you like on here, too.

Gaylene

Veteran

Always Trying, see that's what I find amusing--the whole notion of "frumpy". Which means exactly--what? And I agree that those "old" fashion bloggers don't speak much to me. They have their style and I have mine which is kind of the point here. I also like my gear; I've always worn it and will continue to do so when it's practical.

Deb, I'm with you on not really caring about the condition of my legs or arms. Let the young un's see what is in store for them, is my motto. And that goes for dressing around health issues as well. But I will disagree about not wanting to look like my mother. Even as a teenager, I thought she was stylish. If I look like her now, I'm very happy.

Astrid, one of the reasons I admire your style so much is because you march to your beat. It took me a lot longer to get to that point. And then there's that "frumpy" term again. Seriously, who is the oracle who makes these decisions? The omniscent being who can't articulate why something is frumpy or dowdy, but "knows it when I see it?" Really?

Peri, I have photographic proof that young women make bad fashion decisions--a red gingham pantsuit I wore in the early 80s! Seriously, put a candle in a Mateus bottle in my hand and I'd be hard to spot in any of those quasi-Italian restaurants of the era

deb

Veteran

Gaylene, I kept thing about your post and really would like you to post WIW's. I believe at our age we need to show the younger ones that it is ok to be dowdy, or frumpy, or whatever the media is calling the normal older woman's style what is real. We are real women with real bodies of all types and we are all beautiful and relevant. We have the wisdom that a full life has given us and I like that you share yours with us. I was reading through my list of favorite blogs and came upon this and had to chime back in to your post. 'Tude is important and I think we all have it because if we did not, we would not be here and I thank all of you for it.

http://advancedstyle.blogspot......itude.html

Gaylene

Veteran

Torontogirl: what's interesting is that I have pictues of myself in my thirties, forties, and fifties wearing almost identical outfits. It was that realization which clued me in that I had a very definite personal style which I'll probably wear up until the end of my days. I sometimes wonder if we'd save ourselves a lot of grief if we just checked backwards for our aspirational style.

Isabel, I think you've hit on something important. Our minds often lag behind our bodies when it comes to aging. Writing the words "I am old" seems weird, but oddly liberating. I don't need to be young--been there, done that. Old, though, that could be worth exploring.

And that was really my point in starting this thread--to see if there are others who are interested in exploring the idea of being, and looking OLD-- as a counterpoint to all that "you don't look 65" stuff.

Astrid

Veteran

This thread made me think about my mum who just visited me for two days. She's in her late forties now. She isn't interested in fashion. She doesn't wear make up and doesn't dye her hair. She's perfectly content as being perceived as old as she is. We went to look for shoes and some clothes (didn't buy anything) because she lost a lot of weight recently and plans to loose some more. But she didn't do it for looks, she was perfectly fine as she was. She did it for health reasons. She has absolutely no interest in "taking advantage" of the thinner figure she now has. She wants to look decent and be comfortable and doesn't want to spend too much money on what she's seeing as a necessary evil (namely shopping for clothes). And I think that's perfectly fine - she's a true role model when it comes to things that are way more important. ETA Of course the importance of whatever is always debatable. I guess not caring about the insane pressures of society to look young is being a role model too, in a way.

Helena

Veteran

I couldn't agree more Gaylene - I distinctly remember a favorite outfit from primary school - blue and white striped boatneck t-shirt and a pair of jeans - the outfit could go into my current capsule and it wouldn't miss a beat!!

rachylou

Veteran

Well first, I love the Queen and her style. Second, yes, thoughts about how to look older pester me. I want to have some dignity and clear the field for young people to make fools of themselves, as I believe is correct and proper. Lol: Don't laugh. These are seriously held beliefs, and to be quite honest I don't know how to go about it. One gear in the works is that things have changed a lot - the local garb has largely given way to more nationally homogenous yuppie wear. Another problem in my mind is that there is NO appointed dignified manner of dress. Bedazzling and beige orthopedic shoes do not do the trick.

Gaylene

Veteran

Laura, you're right in thinking I don't want to look older than 66, but looking like MY version of a grannie is just fine. And talking about looking OLD is kind of my reason for this thread.

Oldchic, i agree that a big part of the reason I stay on the forum is because it is so much fun to see younger women come into their own as they experiment and get feedback to help them feel good about themselves.

Deb, the whole WIW thing perplexes me, if I'm being honest. I can only come up with two reasons that would make sense TO ME. One to get help and two, for validation. And, maybe, a third which you allude to --as some form of public service.

I'm sure I could improve my style quotient, but I'm not sure I want to devote my resources towards that goal any more, if that makes any sense. And years of being in the classroom and dealing with student evaluations have dulled my need for external validation--15% think you are a goddess, 15% think you are something that crawled out from beneath a rock, and the rest think are somewhere in between. Because everyone on YLF is so nice, i know the comments would be much kinder, but I'd still figure they masked those percentages. As for public service, got to think about that...

Besides I kind of laugh at the "helpful" advice we YLFer would deliver to HRH. Choose a more stylish shoe, add a semi-tuck, wear nude fishnets, ditch the frumpy head scarves...

deb

Veteran

Oh, 'public service' I like that. I think from now on I will start my WIW's with 'PSA' instead of 'WIW'.

deb

Veteran

OK, I just had another thought, when do we become elderly? And how do you feel about that word? Personally, I do not care to be called elderly but being called old is fine. I have not clue why. I did not even realize I had these feelings until I left the site thinking about this thread and the word elderly popped into my head. Hmmmm....

Astrid

Veteran

To me as a non native English speaker old is just a factual statement. Elderly implies not being able to take care of yourself any longer (in small or big ways), to my ears.

carter

Veteran

Very interesting question! I was about to respond to Laura's comment, and then I saw your reply, Gaylene. That's it exactly for me. I am 51, so technically plenty old enough to be an actual grandmother. I am happy to look 51, but I sure don't want to look significantly older than I am.

My daughter's "Grandma" (her dad's mom) was 82 when she died last year, so my 23 year old daughter's vision of what is "grandma" is significantly older than I'd like to look at this point in my life. She was a lovely woman but not the most stylish. Now, OTOH, if she had called me "Jingle" (the kids' term of endearment for my stepmom), I would have thought, "well, heck yeah!" She is 70 and pays great attention to every detail of how she presents herself...and she wears very sensible shoes.

I sincerely hope there is no point of aging-out. I am not the slightest bit trendy and have no desire to be. However, I would always like to look as though I have some style and pay attention to how I present myself. I think there are many of us here with this approach.

rachylou

Veteran

One thing occurs - there is old and then there is out of date... as in completely out of it. One wants to look old but not like they got stuck in a past decade and never left it. I wish there was another magazine out there for full-grown women besides More. I loved the issue with Lena Heady, but for the most part I find there's too little fashion in the magazine. I don't read magazines with big glossy pictures to wallow in being *a person of substance.* If I'm going to be a person of substance, I think I should read WSJ and Atlantic or something... jus' sayin'...

p.s. I dislike the term *elders.* That sounds so fake to me.

tulle

Veteran

Gaylene, you are to me one of the Wise Women of this forum. I would miss your sage comments, so I hope you won't leave. I'm 64, and contemplating the same issue at times. I wonder: when did it become pathetic, lazy, or underachieving to acknowledge the passage of time? The lure of aging toward a quieter presence, no longer occupying center stage, is very real for me. I think of certain older women I know who now dress for the sidelines, comfort and practicality their only guidelines, and feel that yes, this can be done gracefully, and the result is not something to be fixed with a patronizing makeover, but an intelligent alternative to forever trying harder--

--and yet, and yet, if I am absolutely honest, I am not willing to spread ashes over the last embers of my beauty just now, when I'm still learning things about looking attractive, still interested in participating in the game, at least to some extent. BUT, I firmly reserve the right to opt out, temporarily or for good, when that feels right.

Lyn D.

Veteran

This has been a fascinating read Gaylene!
My own thoughts have been somewhat in this direction recently.
I am questioning why I have been colouring my hair every 4 weeks for so many years, and kind of liking the idea of just letting it be at last.
I love my Mums grey hair- her original brown would just not suit her elderly body!
Still, I think I will always enjoy reading fashion forums- why not tweak our outfits over time to show that we are not stuck in the decades of our youth?
I do want to feel that I am living in the present moment, and enjoying it all from a wiser perspective!

Olivegreen

Hah, I am old. 60. Like the word grandma, I own it. It is simply remarkable how much you get away with when you let your grey hair grow and relax into who you always were.
Aging is not reversible, i figured that spending my time fighting it, or trying to disguise it, was a sad waste of my time.
When I was 50, I lived in terror of becoming that old woman with a pinched and judgmental look on her face. The one who becomes the angry and bossy bore that no one wants to be around, who demands a lot and gives little joy.
Rather than get a face lift, I began to work to be happy, and free of those emotional traps of age and bitterness and struggle.
I still love looking at lovely things, and am interested in self presentation and staying current and spending my financial and social capital wisely.
I am grateful to hang out with such a diverse community. And I dont post WIW because i do work with felons and abused women, and it is safer not.

Marley

Veteran

I'm older than most who have responded on this thread and I just gotta' say that I don't really think of myself as old! However, I have noticed that several women on this thread who are 10 to 15 years younger than me have identified themselves as old! Really??? I don't understand that.

I do think that I understand what frumpy means (to me.) I figure that what some see as frumpy though, others see as stylish, trendy, marching to the beat of their own drummer, etc. etc. Whenever someone posts a thread wondering if a certain piece of clothing or pair of shoes looks frumpy - unless I have a really good understanding of their style, I will not respond. Its too subjective to apply the same frump-factor standards to everyone!

Also, I must say that I really, really don't ever intend to look frumpy myself - regardless if its comfortable, functional, etc. I plan to have the kind of wardrobe that will be not only comfortable/functional but also stylish and will take me to the end of the road . . .

I also love learning about the trends each season and experimenting with mixing up pieces for new looks. It is a creative outlet for me - along with things like drawing, playing music, and writing - so its part of what keeps me alive!

Dee

I am almost 60 and only discovered YLF about a year ago. When I discovered it, I was pleased to see that posts were by people of varying ages and varying styles. I enjoy learning a bit about new trends or styles and seeing new ways of combining items I already have in my closet as well as new ideas about what I might add (or subtract) from it. I don't necessarily need to follow all of the suggstions or even agree with them, but I think that perusing YLF helps me, personally, from falling into a rut where I just assume certain styles will not be flattering on me or just buying the same types of items over and over. While I do not mind looking my age, I do not want to look dated. I hope that YLF continues to be a diverse community, where all are welcome.

MsMaven

Veteran

Oh no! If you've aged out of YLF then I already aged out several years ago without realizing it. I did read the Duchesse's blog, but haven't gone back to read the comments.

I just don't feel that old. Okay, when I'm down on the floor playing trucks with the grandsons and can't get up by myself except by moving into downward dog (sometime in company of others it doesn't seem dignified) then maybe I feel the possibility I've aged more than I think.

Perhaps in some ways I'm a bit self-delusional. I throw out unflattering photos and just keep the ones where I look good. I thought turning 60 was tough, but then came 70. At 60 I was still in my prime.

I did have a few moments of self doubt a couple of years ago when a female relative told me it was time I stopped wearing "body-con" clothing. YLF helped me sort that one out. (She has a rather strange concept of what constitutes body con.) I'm dealing with body changes and hair changes and I admit, I have to change my ways of thinking.

My challenge is to find a way of dressing that makes me feel good, is reasonably stylish, but still is an expression of who and what I am. And I've accepted that most of my shoes would be considered dowdy by a 20-year old.

Now I'll go back and read what the rest of you have written.

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