Phrase prizes for the day: determinedly frumped and intentional frump and young classic (!!)

Totally OT: Ohio.. I bow down to Ohio and want to go there one day. Ohio is special... Btw, I totally agree on regional fashion... But back to Ohio. Ohio is the place of one the most rigorous and defined aesthetics I've ever encountered. Obviously plainer than New York or California, but the discipline, the thought behind it, the elaborateness (yes, I said elaborate) - nothing short of impressive.

On the subject of WIWs: There are a lot of good reasons not to post personal pictures on the web - including *I can't be bothered.* Not necessary for discussion IMO.

On the subject of Gaylene leaving: If you left Gaylene, how would we ever get good discussions like this? You make the best, most interesting observations (!)

I'm having to make some wardrobe adjustments to accommodate my increasingly more painful osteoarthritis. I'm sure my style, as it evolves, is not going to resonate with many women. But you know what? I'm not that concerned because I can always ask them to live in my body for a day. Also, these adjustments don't diminish my love for fashion and style. I just can't wear every look I love.

What I'm trying to say, Gaylene, is that there's always going to be someone (or more than one person) who doesn't like your style. Ignore it. As for YLF, I don't worry or fret over the posts I don't agree with. It's just not that big of a deal.

So please don't leave. I enjoy your presence and posts on this forum.

Gaylene, we love your thoughtful posts and topics. I have been trying to think how to respond to this post without meandering. I will be 69 this summer and just became a grandmother about 6 months ago, but I don't consider myself elderly, even pushing 70. I actually came here hoping to build up a wardrobe of outfits that could take me into retirement and beyond without going out of style...an investment before the austerity of a retirement income hit. I didn't realize that one's style is in a continual state of evolving. Dressing myself has become my creative outlet and entertainment. I don't care about looking younger than I am, just being my best version of myself. I can embrace my grey hair, wrinkles, and other imperfections, knowing that more will come to be challenges to dressing, if I live long enough. I had great models for aging gracefully in both my parents. Much is accepting reality and working with what you have.
That dowdy older lady in elastic waist pants may need to cover her Depends or have arthritic fingers that can't deal with buttons and zippers on jeans in the restroom. The one wearing a scarf on her head may have seriously thin hair or has had chemo recently. Etc. I hope they don't give up because they can't wear skinny jeans.
Please stick around and share your wisdom.

Wow, this has been an interesting read. Sorry I didn’t get back sooner, but I want to thank all of you for your thoughtful comments, and, even more, your encouragement to stay on the forum. This truly is a special place.

But to get back to my original post: I actually didn’t intend this thread to sound like a precursor to abandoning YLF or to raise the posting vs. non-posting picture issue, or even to talk about how to maintain one’s fashion mojo as one ages, so I apologize if some of my earlier responses highjacked the thread in those directions. Thistle, Rachylou, and Tulle actually expressed my thoughts much better than I did—what happens when, as an older woman, you decide to stop playing the fashion game according to conventional wisdom?

I totally salute women who, up until their last breath, look cool, stylish, and current. I can visualize Angie, and so many others on the forum, settling for nothing less as they age into their sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties—heck, even into their hundreds! But as I’ve aged, I’ve come to realize my feelings about fashion are much like the way I feel about art, or music, or the theatre. I love to look, listen, or watch, but my desire to own another painting—or jump in on what is pitched as the latest, coolest, or edgiest—is fast dwindling. More and more I just want to do my own thing in my own way. I like to think of this as one of the privileges of old age.

Which brings me to Her Majesty (thanks, Adelfa, for putting us straight on her title!). To me, she looks old in a smart, comfortable, relaxed way that really appeals to me. It’s much like Kate Hepburn’s uniform when she was old, except Kate had the kind of magnificent bone structure and willowy body that made her smart, comfortable and relaxed choices look stylish as well. Put Kate’s choices on a more “average”, older body, though, like HM, and it seems to me you get dowdy—as in matronly, dowager-like, stodgy, and, yes, even a bit frumpy when you aren’t wearing the crown jewels. Well-cut, well-fitted, quality clothing, but about as far as you can get from the fashion runway. Those hemlines are set in concrete. HM could resurrect an outfit from a couple of decades ago and most of us wouldn’t know the difference. That is about as classic as you can get—more CLASSIC(modern), than Modern Classic—but a uniform I find appealing although at odds with the excitement and variety that is the heart of a fashion forum.

Like Kate Hepburn, HM, and Thistle’s grandmother, I crave a uniform that I never have to think about once I put it on my body. Is it the “best I can be”—probably not, but I don’t think my clothing and appearance is where I want expend my capital these days. So my question is really how do you view a decidedly average older woman who deliberately puts runway fashion and trends on the back burner? Can it be viewed as a style goal, a rebellion, or is it the equivalent of “giving up”? Are there any other Elderly Tomboys out there, or Senior Sportifs who are content to wear their navy polo sweaters, Gap jeans, and boots, endlessly, until the end of their days?

I LOVE reading about those of you with uniforms, long established signature style and so forth. I am far more interested in how everyone uses clothes as part of their tool kit for life than learning about cutting edge style.

Oh I love what Meredith just said...your tool kit for life. I'm going to remember that. Such a great expression for what I've always been struggling with since joining. I'm not in a place where I can quit caring because my tool kit is not yet functional! I really do want to get to the place you are talking about Gaylene, where I don't have to try so hard. I think that is a beautiful, legitimate goal, and the idea is so soothing to contemplate. It just sounds like contentment.

And I get what you mean, the quest for the current thing is not my motivation at all, just trying to build a closet that helps me. Like when members go through some crisis...like Ms Mary has just posted about...and pop in to say that their wardrobe was one thing they didn't have to worry about. That sounds wonderful.

It's interesting: Truth, the Queen has a stodgy body. However, I don't see her as having stodgy style. Her attire is very alive. That she could resurrect something from last decade and have it still be so lively - to me this is an indication of her inherent stylishness.

Re. the question of a decidedly average older person who puts the runway and trends on the back burner... I confess to thinking it may very well be integral to one's dignity and to keep looking good. (And I worry that I need to put my kookiness aside as well, and that I won't be able to because I'm intrinsically kooky.) I look at David Bowie and think his greatest sartorial move was to calm down and just wear suits when he reached 40 and started heading into 50. Ok... David is a man, but he was a fashion plate and a serious mover of fashion.

But I have to note there's being cool, calm and collected and then there's, well, sitting in your grave where all you have to do is lie back... bit of a drag that one...

You know as in everything else there is room here for a variety of opinions...How we dress is as personal a statement as can be made...And there have always been many interpretations of that...I have been into fashion and what I wear my entire life...That has put me at odds with my peers on more than one occasion..Yet my fashion interest is just..well...me...
As I have found in my own life, there is definitely room to co-exist... The discussion here on how people dress during the third act of their lives presents different opinions...Gaylene mentioned the Elderly Tomboys with their Gap jeans, navy polos and boots...These wonderful people can definitely be juxtapositioned with the fashionista who spends a great deal of her time figuring her next outfit...We all have a place at the table and the interesting part of it is that...hey, we are all different...That is to be celebrated and not disparaged...
Angie has worked at creating a table of welcome here at YLF with the mission statement of acceptance...This is what makes this forum so very special..We are all welcome and whether we bring our uniform or our Vogue wantabe to the table, there is room for all of us...smile...

Gaylene, I'm very late to this thread, but I've been following it with interest.
I am around your age but I don't consider myself to be old. If and when I reach my nineties I might concede to old age, but for now it is always at least a decade ahead of my present age. In the meantime, I'm aiming to age gracefully into simple, elegant clothes - at least, that's the plan.

I found YLF by chance as I searched for advice on a specific topic, and stayed around because I liked what I saw here - sound advice and inspiration from Angie's blog, interesting posts such as this one from you, and the chance to interact with a diverse group of kind, intelligent, funny and wise women.
I'm not particularly fashion forward - my wardrobe needs are fairly simple and mostly casual, but coming here stops me from becoming too comfortably entrenched in my cosy little rut.

Like you, I don't post WIWs, mostly because I am cautious,to the point of paranoia, about what I put out on the internet, even in the comparative safety of this site. Also,I am extremely camera-shy, even in a family situation. Plus, Angie and Greg, in their infinite generosity, acknowledge and welcome participation at all levels (thanks, Angie and Greg) so I do not feel under any pressure to post, even if others seem to find this strange.

A word about The Queen, since she was mentioned in the blogger's post. The classic style that HM favours is the most suitable for her public appearances, not least because her photographs will be archived for all time. It would be disconcerting, when trawling through the archives of the sixties, to discover the Monarch clad in a mini skirt.
The tweeds, kilts, riding macs and headscarves that Queen Elizabeth wears when off duty are simply the time-honoured country uniform of the British Aristocracy. Some may label her as dowdy, but I don't think she is doing badly for a woman approaching 90.

Finally, Gaylene, I really hope you will stay around. Your presence here is so valuable, and the comments you make so wise and thought-provoking. You would be sorely missed should you decide to leave.

I want to add that for what it's worth, I'm in my '50s. Sooner or later my wardrobe might be called "Alternative Elder Style," but that'll be okay with me as long as I have style. What I don't want are clothes and accessories that give the impression I don't care about myself or how I look. I hope this makes sense. And I want to share thoughts and opinions with other women my age who share my interests. YLF is the ideal forum IMO because members are truthful yet kind. I don't feel inferior. Just yesterday I asked about wearing sandals when you have foot problems. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Gaylene, I really appreciate hearing from women around my age or older. We have a certain maturity and mindset that gives us a different view of fashion. Please don't go!

Love the thread and comments. Very thought provoking.

The Queen's style is certainly English aristocracy- twinsets, tweed skirts, pearls, hats, sensible block heels, macs. She chooses lively colours for public occasions which is one of her signatures. And it is a uniform that hasn't changed much since she was in her 30s and 40s. It is similar to my grandmother's clothes - she wasa similar age although she died 4 years ago.

When I am in my 90s I imagine I will wear similar things to what I wear now, with adaptations of course. Flat ankle boots, blazers, merino knit sweaters. I too will have found my uniform.

IMHO, sartorial choices cover a very wide range from fashion victim to fashionista to trend setter to uniform wearer to functional to, at the very far end, given up/doesn't matter. I suppose most women fall somewhere in the middle between the two extremes, and younger single women are more apt to pay more attention to what is fashionable at the moment. Older ones probably pay more attention to or know what is their STYLE, and the trend du jour is less important if at all. But those darn trends take on some importance if one is seeking to replace a beloved but worn item, and it can't be found for love or (reasonable) money at retail. At some point, that classic look has to adjust to the shoulder line, lapels, sleeve width, pants width, etc. of the decade.

Well-fitting clothes always trump ill-fitting ones IMHO. Sometimes as we age, the clothing lines that once worked no longer fit the same way and we fail to notice. Or they change fit models. I hope I pay attention to fit in the decades to come, including the back.

Fashionable? Not a priority for me at age 62. Stylish? I hope so. I don't mind if people associate me with a signature style. I don't think any adult I know would consider any person to be in a style rut, know what styles are trending or are past their prime. The ones I know might be able to speak to political and socio-political nuances instead. . .

I don't have much to add other than thank you for this thread. I am thrilled that some of our more mature aged members have "revealed" themselves here. One of the lovely things about this forum is that it is multi generational. I get to learn from those both younger and older than me. Style is more important to me than fashion and I am finding that with age comes the confidence to simply dress how I want to. More and more I am looking to ladies older than myself for style inspiration.

For those who are are hesitant to share outfits, please feel free to share, I would love to see what you are wearing, uniform or no. Style in any shape or form is never boring or uninteresting, especially to this community of women.

Gaylene, this is the most fabulous thread, and exhibit A of why I would be so terribly disappointed if you left the forum. As one of the few who's been lucky enough to meet you, too, I'd feel the loss all the more.
I'd like to offer still more encouragement for you to stay on your course, and not solely because it makes you happy (although that's a good enough reason on its own). There are two reasons for this. For one thing,, in many circles having a signature style that survives the passage of time is aspirational (see Anna Winter as just one example). I realize there's a fine line between signature style and personal rut, but the confidence you feel and enjoyment you take in your style choices ensures you fall on the more positive side of that line.
But more importantly, I shudder to think what a state the world would be in without people to question so-called traditional wisdom and blaze different trails. Speaking strictly in the context of fashion, I have benefited from these people in two specific ways. My blindness and my size mean that I have had to operate in zones that were once anathema to the fashion world - being plus-sized and disabled. For decades, it was generally understood that curvy women dressed to emulate their slender sisters and people with disabilities were far too preoccupied with their crushing physical and social disadvantages to be concerned with something as frivolous as fashion. Had that thinking prevailed, I would have nothing to wear today that expresses my aversion to both those viewpoints. The choices available to me now only came about because wiser, stronger women shirked the norms of their day and pursued options that suited them best.
It's perhaps because of my own experiences that I wince whenever I hear agist terms used as negative descriptors. I won't sound off as to why that makes me cringe, since so many of the other ladies have already done so more eloquently. But stories like the one about Thistle's grandmother put the humanity back in fashion, as do the women of this site. There's a reason the fashion industry is often viewed as the epitomy of fickleness and superficiality. Without a long tradition of harsh judgments, lemming mentality and bitchy commentary, hilarious satires such as "The Devil Wears Prada" could never exist, let alone resonate. But you, Angie and all the other Ylf ladies show that it doesn't have to be that way. Some do so by pushing their personal envelopes and taking fashion risks at any age, and some make the same point by doing the opposite. That's you, and you're fabulous. Please keep leading by example...and please stick around!

Gaylene, such a thought provoking thread!
In a way, one of the gifts YLF has given to me is to worry less about age. I'm 42, and I remember the massive freak out my mother had when she turned 40 - it was as if her life was over. I wasn't like that, but nor was I looking forward to ageing at all. But I look at these forums, and all the fabulous style of women older than myself, and I realise I only have good things to look forward to! And as well as that, I enjoy other contributions made by all kinds of members, from all over the world, all ages, all sizes. It's all good.
I also don't think there is anything wrong with a uniform and not following the latest fads. I pick up some trendy stuff every now and then, but only if it suits me. I think feeling good and confidence is key - I'd rather be comfortable in my own skin than following fashions designed for 18 year olds!

I like everything Michelle said.

Oh, lastly, a shout out to the young and so beautiful on this forum, thank you for sharing your experimental and interesting clothes and outlooks. If there is anything dowdy, it is sniffing at young people.
I appreciate and enjoy them and their kindnesses and willingness to play.

Maybe today's skinnies, t-shirt and pointy toed flats will be the old-lady uniform of the future!

Gaylene, you said:
I crave a uniform that I never have to think about once I put it on my body. Is it the “best I can be”—probably not, but I don’t think my clothing and appearance is where I want expend my capital these days. So my question is really how do you view a decidedly average older woman who deliberately puts runway fashion and trends on the back burner? Can it be viewed as a style goal, a rebellion, or is it the equivalent of “giving up”?

For me, the uniform you crave is not only a valid style goal, this is the holy grail of personal style - at any age. Could Jennifer Aniston look "better" in soft summer colors and a change of hairstyle? Could Jamie Lee Curtis pull off long "younger" hair? Could Diane Keaton be more conventionally feminine? Sure - but they would lose what makes them so very appealing - that consistency of expression which says, this is me - deal with it!

I remember reading somewhere that if you are twenty and your primary capital is your appearance, well okay, but if you are thirty and that's still the case - what the hell have you been DOING for the last ten years? Doesn't that become all the more valid with every decade that passes - not that we shouldn't want to be attractive, but shouldn't our personal capital be more diverse at least, as the years pass?

Finally, there is a big difference between giving up and having other things to do - if you are in the latter, then more power to you, and I think that comes across to anyone who bothers to pay attention. And if they can't be bothered, well let them kiss your .... (can I say that??)

Hi Gaylene and all,

What a wonderful thread.

You said: "Our minds often lag behind our bodies when it comes to aging. Writing the words "I am old" seems weird, but oddly liberating. I don't need to be young--been there, done that. Old, though, that could be worth exploring.
And that was really my point in starting this thread--to see if there are others who are interested in exploring the idea of being, and looking OLD-- as a counterpoint to all that "you don't look 65" stuff."

I LOVE hearing this! My mind did a wonderful shift of perspective in reading your words, Gaylene. Such a refreshing counterpoint to the prevailing "staying young" or "looking your best for your age" cultural point of view, which at 60, I am growing increasingly weary of.

I came across a photo of the painter Georgia O'Keeffe some years ago and was so struck by her unadorned but considered style. She is my style icon for aging...and for living. She lived her art in her work, her homes, her dress...her life. Her grey hair and wrinkles were not hidden. She appeared not to be ashamed about who she was. To me, that's freedom and THAT's the stylish uniform I want to wear everyday!

I rarely comment. I've been with YLF
Since the very beginning on a recommendation from a very discriminating friend who also follows
Angie and YLF. I also follow Passages
Des perles and love her wry, no nonsense approach. I don't want to debate whether I'm young, old, elderly,
Aging, striving. I'm just me at 63.
I'm not ready for HM, The Queen to
Become my style muse. There are many options for me. I dress always with respect for myself. I'm covered but classy, aware and objective about the way I present myself to the world.
I'm just not ready yet to assume as a role model a women who, as lovely as she is , is several decades beyond me ,
As a role model. There are other
Role models to emulate.

I also rarely comment but read & love YLF:

I am always amused when I read dressing/looking like a "Grandma" in a derogatory manner. I am a Grandmother of 2 beautiful babies & am beyond joyful & proud to be part of their lives.

I still dress fashionable/modern/classic & my 2 adult daughters in their 20's sometimes borrow my clothes/shoes.

My style didn't change simply because my daughter gave birth:).

YLF has given me many useful fashionable tips over the years. The biggest (& easiest to incorporate) is PPL which is useful at any age.

It's great to come back to YFL after some time away and find this kind of thoughtful discussion.

Has anyone been watching the show, YOUNGER? (TV Land, http://www.tvland.com/shows/younger) It stars Sutton Foster and Hillary Duff (I know!). Foster is a 40-year-old who's newly divorced and in need of a job. She decides to "pass" as a 20-something when she can't get hired in her industry (publishing).

It's interesting to see how they dress her as a 20-something, in contrast to the "older" career women on the show. Her "younger" fashion is very trendy and hipster - lots of Forever 21 and mis-matched layers. At 58 I would feel ridiculous in most of those outfits, but I don't know if it's because they're "young" or they're just not my style. Apparently dressing "younger" involves an endless supply of slouchy beanie caps.

I almost stopped watching the show, as I wasn't entirely sure where they were going with it all. But the later episodes drew me back in. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say.

This has been a great thread, not least because it has introduced me to some new posters and brought the beautiful Tarzy out of the woodwork!