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Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

Your online image, crowdsourced.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

The Internet has voted on how professional women should look, apparently:
http://www.xojane.com/issues/p.....-for-women

No surprises here, but I'm curious about the service:
https://www.photofeeler.com/

Now, I appreciate the objective opinion of sympathetic grown-ups - that's one of many reasons to hang out here after all. Then again, I can't help wondering if this isn't the problem child that was "Am I Hot Or Not?" all grown up and stalking the web as an adult.

What do you guys think? Enabling Yay or Nay seems apt somehow.

General

23 replies

Latest reply was from approprio

Anonymous

So many double standards still

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

A study about this just came out last month. The service clearly is valuable, as (male or female) we're objectively terrible at choosing the best photos of ourselves for different social contexts. As for crowdsourcing opinions, that gets hairy, doesn't it?

Ledonna N.

Veteran

Double standard.

It is intresting these studies show our humaness.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Definite double standard.

Maybe because I'm not in the market for a job or a mate, this kind of thing sort of irrationallly annoys me. I mean, come on, maybe soliciting the opinion of a trustee friend or colleague, but strangers?

One might argue that we post outfits here on YLF for feedback, but I counter that this is more of a community, and most of us build up some semblance of relationship with fellow forum members before posting outfits. It's public, but it's *targeted* public. I have no desire to seek every rando's idea of whether I measure up to their standards, when I don't even know who they are, where they come from, etc.

I am wary of the trend toward seeking broad internet approval for everything these days -- I keep thinking of that Nosedive episode of Black Mirror.

K.M.

Veteran

approprio, that's interesting. Like you, I'm torn. On the one hand we're social beings and I find constructive feedback quite helpful in every respect (which is not the same as being a slave to others' opinions). On the other hand such crowdsourcing does not always veer towards constructive criticism. I guess I'd have to try this specific service to see what would transpire. I'm both curious and scared of doing so.

The Cat

Veteran

Interesting subject. I will look up the links later today. For now, I'll just state my immediate reaction: I couldn't help smiling when I saw that the question you are raising in connection with the subject "how professional women should look" is: "What do you GUYS think?"

approprio

(website)

Veteran

zoiechic, Ledonna, I know, right? Enough double, triple and quadruple standards to make anyone's head spin.

Jenn, thanks so much for that link! I'll be going back to that for sure. I can see from an empirical perspective there's some value in this, but it feels like an ethical minefield.

Janet, funny you should mention that legendary Black Mirror episode, which is a favourite among my students. You're right, there's something very dystopian about this.

K.M. that's exactly why I'm curious! I'm not sure I want to do it myself though...

The Cat: haha you got me! I hadn't even thought of it as gendered. Just goes to show how those pesky masculine standards creep in, ho hum.

Christina F.

Veteran

Aside from the double standard thing, which I think most of us can agree on, I think these ideas are also a bit outdated except in certain professions. I work in NYC, and hardly any of the women I see going to work in the mornings dress like this. I don't work in the financial district or near a bunch of law offices - I think these standards would still apply in those industries, plus maybe some others I'm not thinking of. Most of the women I see are business casual. (Full disclosure: I work at a nonprofit. I think there are also a lot of advertising/marketing/tech agencies near my office.)

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Liz, this looks interesting. I have to run but want to read the articles when I have a moment. (I'm thrilled to hear I influenced your decision to get fab specs. MET bril! And go Team Embellished Denim).

cindysmith

Veteran

What Janet said.

Yes, some of my earliest posts were WIW, but for me that was the easiest way to dip my toes in the water, because I had seen how supportive this group is, and because I couldn't think up any coverage questions or discussion topics.

For the most part, I really don't care what "the internet" thinks of how I look, and I'm fortunate enough to have a job that allows me quite a bit of freedom to wear what I like (as long as it's not vulgar or offensive), and Sunshine basically thinks I'm pretty no matter how weird I'm dressed LOL. So I'm with Janet, I'm really only going to ask trusted friends (in my case, y'all) for tips/feedback/suggestions on a look if I need to look a certain way.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Christina F, you nailed it. It may be expected in more conservative environments, but if I tried to present as a professional creative in this way I'd have zero credibility. Less than zero. I recall a project by a couple of media artists who tried crowdsourcing paintings like this and ended up making a series of blandly appealing sunsets. So much for Goya and Caravaggio.

Angie, high5! Team specs and embellished denim FTW!

Cindy, yeah, it just sucks out any notion of personality or authenticity, doesn't it? I'm all for constructive criticism, but who wants to stand in front of a focus group? Far better to be around people around who appreciate us for the quirky beings we are rather than pretend to be something we're not.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Ah, yes! Christina and Liz, you've hit on something that really highlights why "crowdsourcing my look" has zero appeal to me personally. I work in a creative field. In fact, my look is quite tame and polished compared to many artists who are self-employed! I would feel like a joke as a designer and artist if I couldn't rely on my own sense of creativity and common sense in coming up with my own style of dressing. I'm sure if I tried to crowdsource my look to the broader public, I'd get a lot of feedback that would make me look like a soccer mom or a corporate worker. No offense to soccer moms and corporate workers -- I count many of my good friends in those ranks -- but it would not be *me.*

rachylou

Veteran

I'm thinking this actually would turn out like Hot or Not (hilarious btw), because I suspect it's not a truly randomized crowd... but I didn't read that far in, to see if your money does get you that. I'm thinking the business model is a self-selected regularly participating group, which would almost automatically be interested in appearances a little more than average?

I thought Hot or Not was hilarious because I didn't see that people were particularly good looking, but that they hewed towards a certain manner of grooming and dress. Just a lot of men wearing v-neck sweaters as shirts. Lol.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

Ok, I have to read the links carefully, but my first impression is another major way to feed insecurity and neurotic tendencies. I *might* be projecting. And while I have your attention and embellished jeans are being mentioned see photos .

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Anonymous

Whoa! My first reaction was a strong negative. But I did read (ok, skim) the article Jenn linked to. It lead me to admit that I am partial to photos of myself that hue closer to some mythical "ideal", while when it comes to photos of others I'm more attracted to images that show a person's individuality.
So I accept that opinions of others have a place.
I guess the question is whether the community that participates in this service would be helpful? I suppose if it is a community like this one, in the sense that people take the time to offer explanations of their opinions, it could be helpful?

Jules

Veteran

Have you ever come across a friend or family member unexpectedly in public and had a moment before you recognized them where you saw them as a stranger might? And realized that perspective might be a little different than your usual perspective as their intimate?
I most definitely have, and it can be very interesting.
I think the whole point of the exercise is the "objective" opinion of the intended audience of strangers on the internet (potential dates, hiring managers, whatever). Some of those real people would be sexist, etc.
If I were dating, I think I would prefer to ask trusted friends which pictures best represent me as a person, both on my best day and a little more relaxed. Because I'd be trying to attract the right person for me, not the general public. But what about a very image-concious woman who is hoping to attract a certain type of man?
Career-wise, as a woman in tech I think it could actually be interesting to get reactions from industry people who are strangers, if I knew they would be professional and not insulting about it.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

The whole crowdsourcing idea is sooooo in line with today's Millennial social media frenzy - and my guess is that Millennials would handle the feedback sooo much better than Generation X'ers would. Hairy - the word Jenn used - is a great word to describe the crowdsourcing process for the deep thinking and sensitive Gen X'er who did not grow up being so public on social media.

Jaime, LOVE THE DIOR JEANS.

Anonymous

I voted Yay, approprio. Seeing yourself as others see you can be an eye-opener, and I would be interested in what others thought of images I might share. As long as they were respectful and appropriate, of course. It has always fascinated me how there can be huge discrepancies between what the world sees and how you see yourself.

binkle

Veteran

It would be interesting if you could set the parameters of your "judges" to fit your geography, industry, age range, etc. Or alternatively, to know this information about them. It would be worthless to me to be critiqued by millenials in creative or tech, unless I was one.

Astrid

Veteran

I voted nay. My first reaction was definitely negative. I prefer asking people who know me and have seen me IRL for their opinion on something like this. I didn't even post my interview outfit on here in the end (but I know it would have been possible), I just went with my gut instinct and asked some people close to me who know what the job is about and what kind of people might be interviewing for such a position.

Bijou

Veteran

A very interesting article and makes me very glad that I don't have to worry about the world of online dating. As for my "professional" photo, my work gets a photographer to take pictures of us every few years, so that we can have a up to date picture on LinkedIn that the firm is happy with.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Ah, the wisdom of YLF! Working from the bottom upwards...

Astrid, you're absolutely right, for something IRL like an interview outfit, the last word needs to come from someone who knows you and your profession directly. (I seem to have lost track by the way - hope the interview went well!)

binkie: that's a really good point! I'd been wondering if that was something you could adjust for in the app.

Xtabay: Thanks for being a yay-sayer among the sceptics! I do agree, this is information worth knowing. There's an interesting TED talk, which I can't find right now, by a data scientist on how she "gamed" OK Cupid data to find her husband. Part of her project was analysing what kind of pictures got the best responses.

Angie: I'll be asking my students about this for sure, but you're right, they have very different experiences and expectations from our generation.

Jules: there's the rub, isn't it? I think that's perhaps my main concern: that this could be another means by which women's appearance gets policed by men. Then again, an online CV or dating profile is only the calling card and not everyone is a dick, so why not optimise?

Ryce: moderation and etiquette would seem to be the bare minimum fro this to work. If people engage in good faith it can still be a useful service.

rachylou, Janet, that self-selecting aspect is quite powerful, isn't it? I'd hope that someone joining the project would have the self-confidence to treat the feedback appropriately.

Jaime: yeah, that would be a barrier to entry for me too. I lurked here for many years before I began posting, so I had a good idea of what I could expect. I can't tell without trying it, but the feedback mechanism on photofeeler seems like a blunt instrument by comparison.

And THOSE JEANS! That's some vintage realness right there.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Bijou: cross posted. Yeah, it's good to be out of the dating pool, but I've found that TED talk I mentioned above. Online dating definitely has its advantages if you're willing to put in the work...
https://www.ted.com/talks/amy_.....ine_dating