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Women's clothing: the good, the bad and the ugly

Aziraphale

Veteran

The good: lots of choice.
The bad: lots of choice.
The ugly: of the choices, the more feminine options are less comfortable.

This is an issue that has been poking around at the back of my mind for a while, but it came to a head this morning (haha, pun). I was up very very late last night working on a project. I had little time to get ready this morning, and I felt awful in that undereye circle, fuzzy head, slightly nauseated way that you get when you've had seriously insufficient sleep. I had a long commute, and a class I hate starting at 8:30 sharp. So I purposely laid out the most comfortable clothes I could think of (short of sweatpants) the night before: looser fit straight leg jeans, Converse, black tee shirt and boyfriend cardigan. I was indeed comfortable all day. Bonus: it took me all of thirty seconds to get dressed.

So here's what's bugging me: I'm basically wearing man clothes today. No heels, no hose, no belt floating free of belt loops somewhere about my torso, no skirt that rides up without a slip, no tight anything. Have you ever noticed that skinny jeans for men are nowhere near as tight as skinny jeans for women? And men don't have to stand there looking in their closet and go, skirt or pants? If skirt, what top is going to work with it? Only fitted tops, but I really don't feel like fitted today. I want loose. And besides I don't feel like messing around with tights. How about pants? Is it raining? If so, maybe I need skinny pants. Actually it's not raining, I'd better wear my bootcuts. But the bootcuts make me look short unless I'm wearing heels. Oh wait, I have a lot of walking to do today, so I really need flats. Aargh! I'm going back to bed.

Not for the first time, I thought how much simpler life would be as a man…at least as far as clothes are concerned. But I love the look of the feminine clothing options, so it's not like I want to give them up. And I choose comfortable options as much as possible…but still. If you take all the clothes I have and put them on a scale from one to ten of the least to the most comfortable, it's all the unisex stuff that rates a ten. All the "woman-only" things I wear rate lowest.

Is anyone else disturbed by this, or is it just me?

Dressing

32 replies

Latest reply was from

Emily

Veteran

I am with you on this, from "it's complicated" to "it's uncomfortable" right on through to "but I like it anyway".

Though in terms of woman clothes being comfortable, I find my ponte shift dress + non-constricting tights + flats to be about as comfortable as you can get... it's a sweatshirt + leggings + slippers masquerading as business casual.

And menswear can be uncomfortable - exhibit A is the tie. I wore a tie to work once and it was the most uncomfortable I have ever been minus spanx (which are obvs. a whole other can of worms).

Aziraphale

Veteran

OMG don't get me started on Spanx!

OK, you've got a point about the tie. I've never worn one, but men tell me they are not the best, comfort-wise. However, I would not be wearing them for my lifestyle anyway, even if I were a guy.

Unfortunately, for me, tights and leggings are always a less comfortable option than comfy jeans. (note the use of the word "comfy" -- there are certainly uncomfortable jean out there). In fact I got rid of all my leggings six months ago when I realized that even if they were quite loose and stretchy, I was always uncomfortable in them. I gave it a good long try, though.

Caro in Oz

Veteran

There have been many times when I seriously considered only having pants, tops, jackets & coats in my wardrobe, but that would be for ease of styling. I'd have no need for special shoes, hose, bras so styling an outfit would be much easier.

On the comfort question, I agree with Emily, it isn't always the type of clothes but more the fabric, the cut, the fit that makes things comfortable or not for me.

carter

Veteran

Yes! Another thing that drives me nuts is that women's clothes (esp pants) tend to grow throughout the day. My husband doesn't come home with a saggy butt and knees, but I do almost every day.

Thistle

Veteran

I agree with you a billion percent!!

Men don't wear heels or any shoes that aren't comfortable.
All men's shoes are the same heel height. No need for varying pant lengths
Men don't wear tights
Men don't wear skirts or dresses
Men don't wear sleeveless to holiday parties
Men don't wear make-up
Men don't do body con.
Men don't do Spanx or anything associated with, nor do they wear anything that would require it
Men "do" their hair in 2 minutes or less.
Most men don't even wear ties anymore. Those are long gone in most business settings

Men can know 2 numbers and buy a pair of pants that fit every time.

Aziraphale

Veteran

Thistle, you are preaching to the choir. You are so right. I forgot about the makeup and undergarments issue. And I'm not even a particularly tough fit for bras -- women with more ample bustage go through serious hassles even finding a sufficiently supportive one that fits right.

Carter, you know what? I think the saggy butt and knees on women's jeans have to do with the fact that they are made to fit tighter. Even with stretch fibres that have "memory", there is the possibility of bagging out. Looser jeans don't have this problem. And men's jeans tend to be looser. My boyfriend and wide leg jeans don't bag out, because they're already loose.

cciele

Veteran

It is both good and bad, isn't it? As a woman, I'm happy that we have the options. I enjoy playing up masculine or feminine aspects in my outfits, but I think that can be done without sacrificing comfort. Although I agree that many "woman-only" clothing tends to be less comfortable than strictly unisex.

One of the most comfortable outfits I've worn was a sweatshirt dress and some boots -- like wearing a sweatshirt without pants.

And regarding skinny jeans for men -- they can be just about as tight as skinny jeans for women. I have a friend with that skinny tall Euro look that pulls those off. But most men I know don't have the body type or the comfort level to wear those. And guys can run into the same problems jeans shopping as women -- with all these different cuts, they, like us, need to try on many styles until they find one that fits properly, since the waist and length numbers can vary sizewise (I say this, having been jean shopping consultant to several men).

And imagine, in the "olden" days it was the men wearing heels and foppish outfits!

Aziraphale

Veteran

Cciele, it's true, my husband's skinny jeans (which are still a lot looser than my skinny jeans) do bag out at the knees and butt a bit. But it looks intentional.

It's also true that there is the odd guy out there wearing truly skinny jeans -- like, woman-skinny (meggings, anyone?) -- but such guys are generally super-skinny hipster 18-year-old in art school who smoke a lot.

Amy

(website)

Veteran

Living with a guy who is 6'4" and broad-shouldered, long-armed and big-footed who doesn't fit on most furniture or in most cars or in most shirts or coats or jackets or shoes or socks...I've learned to complain less.

Also, I was really struck by his complaint that women are allowed to wear sandals and bare legs to the office in the summer, but men are not.

The grass may look greener on the other side, but is it really?

DonnaF

Veteran

I used to have a boss who was self-conscious about his height and longed to be 6 ft. tall. He would always (and still does) wear cowboy boots -- and this is the SF Bay Area, not Texas. CB boots = heels for guys. Whenever we entered a building, he would immediately go into the men's room to comb his hair. Maybe his hair was thinning? His wife, who had shoulder length or longer hair, was not as high maintenance.

rae

(website)

Veteran

I guess I tend to see it all - even men in skirts. And men in spanx, yes ma'am. And the men in my office were the most vocally uncomfortable, often overheating in their shirts, ties, and blazers while the women had to layer up in sweaters to stay warm. They have definitely also made the same complaint Amy mentioned about baring legs and feet in summer. Not sure what I'm getting at here... I guess that gender expectations in clothing haunt us all!

I'm just glad that 1) we have the choice not to wear the tight jeans and corsets if we so choose, and that 2) when we do wear the tight jeans and corsets, they are made of stretchy stretchy spandex. Not, like, boned-seamed torture devices that may induce fainting spells.

P.S. Saw a man rockin' a leather jacket and kilt not long ago. I wonder if he worried about the length of his tops... very interesting to know if the added options cause them the stress that it can cause us.

DonnaF

Veteran

There's a twenty-something at my church who sometimes wears a kilt; it's his heritage. Man, does it look good on him! Very cute. I think he mentioned that it's a bit tricky if it's windy.

Peri

Veteran

Amen sister! I am always on this soapbox! What about shoes! And bathing suits! Why can't women wear baggy boxer shorts to walk the beach in? Why are we always supposed to be pretty?

Grrrr!

Mia

Veteran

This gender gap sometimes irks me when I am packing. Hubby is done lickety split and only takes two pairs of shoes etc. Otherwise I like the variety that I enjoy as a woman.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

As a woman, we have countless more options. That's worth it in my book. Plus, I enjoy the complicated process - and the fashion industry that is nearly entirely devoted to us ladies. How special is that?

And to what extent is comfort overrated? That's quite the loaded question, and worth pondering.

Hope you get some sleep, E. xo

E

Veteran

I totally agree re: societal conventions and their impact on gendered clothes. I especially get frustrated by how a man could buy one beautifully fitting suit, a shirt or two, a couple of ties, and one pair of shoes and be set for all kinds of dressy occasions, from work to social to funerals. There really isn't a female equivalent that is similarly 'invisible' but appropriate. And shoes frustrate me too: when I was trying to figure out walking shoes for my lifestyle, almost everything I liked best was men's. Even men's casual sneakers often have dark soles, making them look more dressy, while women's sneakers made by the same company all of have white soles, thus eliminating a lot of their multifunction potential. Hmph. That being said, men are also kept to a much smaller variety (of useful, comfortable clothes at least): they can't wear a skirt or even shorts above the knee (at least where I live) on a hot day or throw on a dress and be done without being prepared for lots of stares. And wearing cardigans and scarves for them is much more of a statement than it is for women. So patriarchy sucks for everyone but more for women. I do think how much choice we face in the mornings depends on personalities as well as gender (of course those two things are entertwined): hypothetically a woman could limit her everyday wear to one style of bottoms and one style of tops and never wonder about what to throw on. It's easier for men to find those versatile shapes and styles though.

It's funny: on Saturday I felt quite sick and so dressed for maximum comfort, but I ended up in a dress and cardigan rather than unisex clothes! I did keep them in a kind of a-line shape, so everything was loose from my shoulders instead of cinching, but I was definitely more comfortable than even in my comfiest jeans/trousers. Oh and I always find cardigans comfier than blazers! I mentioned my admiration for Japanese sewing books, which use a lot of feminine clothes like blouses and dresses but in loose cuts. The models look super comfortable! Perhaps that's part of what I like about it: feminine clothes re-imagined for comfort and practicality.

Sveta

(website)

Veteran

I like my choices! I don't wear hose, heels and skirts because I have to but because I want to. I agree that anything body con and tight is not as comfortable - and that's why I think that current "fluid" fit is great!
The problem is that it is us, women who want AND need to look nice. There are scores of women out there who wear baggy men-like clothing all the time. Are they comfortable? Maybe. Do I envy them for that comfort? NOOOOO!

Jules

Veteran

Yes one of the reasons I just gave up for a long time (and wore a uniform of tees and non-PPL jeans) was hating that every purchase led to another. Like that wrap dress? The SA will quickly show you the cami you also need to buy to actually wear it. Then the tights, shoes etc. Bootcuts and wide legs (in style back then) should balance my figure, but really require a heel to look right. And then you have to decide how high of a heel to hem for. And end up with pants that only work with one pair of boots!
And now that I enjoy fashion again, and understand that different camis give me different ways to wear that wrap dress, etc, I still find that I have to narrow down my options and choose my looks carefully. I can't try every trend or impulse buy because I don't have an endless budget for supporting pieces.
As for comfort, in the summer heat I do find dresses way more comfortable than pants or shorts. My friend and I were once explaining this to our husbands who of course can't even try the look, lol.

Aziraphale

Veteran

OK, so it seems like this bugs me more than it bugs most of you -- with a few exceptions. Maybe I'm addressing the wrong group, lol.

Peri, it seems you are on my side! And as for the baggy shorts at the beach -- you can! I wear mine (boys' board shorts) with a bikini top. I have issues with feeling like I'm walking around in panties, which are pretty much what bikini bottoms are.

DonnaF and Rae -- ah yes, the kilt argument. Sure, kilts are all kinds of sexy on the right guy. But seriously, how many men wear them, and how often? I see maybe one a year. I don't think we can count kilts as "ordinary man clothes". Also, as skirts go, kilts are damn comfortable. And even if they do wear them, they don't ever wear them with hose and heels.

But yes, I agree with you, Rae, that it's nice we no longer have to stuff ourselves into metal and whalebone shapewear!

E, funny how your "maximum comfort" outfit is different from mine. It's the tights. In summer, a dress with bare legs is super comfy for me. But I ultimately prefer shorts even then. No accidental flashing of panties if I want to run or climb something.

Jules, it's true, being able to wear a huge variety of silhouettes is the main compensation for having to wear generally less comfortable clothing.

Angie, of course you enjoy the "complicated process" -- you have made it your career! I'm not dissing the huge amount of choice women have. Not exactly. Like I said, I'm happy that I can wear a skirt and be all womanly when I feel like it. But sometimes I simultaneously find all that choice overwhelming. And I also personally find dresses and tights less comfortable than jeans. (It's the waistband thing. My skirts and tights are fairly comfy, but anything at all touching my bellybutton is automatically less comfy than a waistband that sits on my hips).

I'm also aware that there might be a psychological preference there too. I might start a second thread. You don't have to "sit like a lady" in jeans. There is confidence to be gained by taking up more space when you sit.

E

Veteran

I wasn't wearing tights!!! I do not find tights maximum comfort material either, although most of mine are reasonably comfy. lol @ your flashing observation; this was for lounging around so no spur of the moment tree climbing was likely.

Have you seen this TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_c.....u_are.html? It's about body language and talks about how different postures can affect our internal perception of ourselves (as well as how others see us of course). She doesn't spend a lot of time on gender stuff, but she does show photos of different postures and it's blindingly obvious that the empowering ones are more masculine.

Joyce B

Veteran

I agree with you. That's why men can't understand what goes into our dressing nicely because for them it is mostly comfortable clothing. They do have to wear ties although most do not these days.
Your post is a lot of fun to read.

ironkurtin

Veteran

I do think it is easier dressing like men because they are not taught to care as much. My boy is perfectly happy wearing Tshirts with frays and holes in them (I literally have to destroy them to get them off hs body). I have learned to buy him the most expensive, longest-lasting clothing I can find, because once he owns it he is wearing it until I rip it up. However, I also think men who care can get absolutely as obsessive as women, and if you've ever priced bespoke suits, they can easily spend jaw dropping amounts. I also agree that men's clothing prioritized ease - unless you're wearing one of those trends like the pants that hang off your butt. I just don't see how those can be comfortabl.

Lisa

Veteran

A very interesting topic. I am jealous of the ease men can shop because everything is a number and for the most part fit is consistent across brands. DH goes in, grabs a pair of trousers or jeans in his waist and length and he's done. I go in, and for trousers or jeans, what size is it, does it fit a pear shape, is it too long for petite me, is the waist sticking out, are they too tight, too loose, etc, etc. No grab and go shopping for me!

The ease of men dressing is also annoying at times, because again DH can grab and go. But I do like having more variety. When he comes home with soggy trousers, I'm fine if I sported boots and skinny jeans on the same rainy day.

Anonymous

As annoying as it all is, I'd much rather be female than male any day, and I appreciate all the choices we have nowadays. Gone are the times when women all had to dress and act the same way. Men pretty much have to wear the same "uniform" their entire lives. Yes, shopping is easier for them, but that's about the only positive thing I can say about it. We women have variety!

Anonymous

I agree with you completely. Variety is good, but I often find it more frustrating than freeing, to be honest. Why should it be such a chore to look nice without feeling dreadfully uncomfortable? Don't even get me started on the financial resources it takes to be a woman who dresses well -- like somebody else put it, I resent that one purchase often leads to another.

It's because of these factors that I've given up on certain types of clothing. Dresses with tights, in the winter? It's not happening. I get bored with pants, for sure, but I'd rather be bored than feel compressed in my clothing while freezing my tail off! I'll save my dresses and skirts for summer and feel much better about the world.

The reason why I ended up on YLF and other fashion websites was to find that elusive formula of appropriateness, fashion-forwardness (is that even a word?) while respecting my physical/psychological comfort. It finally dawned on me that there is no universal formula; it is so individual and it really is OK for me to own my preferences. (I know that seems like a complete duh moment, but it was sort of liberating to realize that I'd over-idealized the process and compromise was fine, even necessary.) In fact, it sort of rankles me when I'm told to suck it up and suffer in order to be fashionable. I really try not to have a prickly disposition, but I'm afraid that it shows up on here, sometimes.

We all do what we can to be stylish. Some of us enjoy the entire process more than others. Some of us enjoy certain parts of the process and get annoyed by others. But we're all here because we're trying, right?

Adelfa

Veteran

I guess living in a climate where we have many 100+ degree days every summer, I always feel sorry for guys that they can't wear sandals and skirts to work. I prioritize comfort and am okay with missing out on uncomfortable items. IKWYM though.

milehighstyle (Linda)

Veteran

The only thing that has ever bothered me on this subject is the hair taking so long to style. So finally I got a pixie cut and I can do my hair in 2 minutes now too. I've always thought that I'd die of boredom if I didn't have all the clothing choices that women do. Maybe it's my body type, but I find skirts and dresses far more comfortable than any pants or jeans (other than yoga or pajama pants). I don't find tights uncomfortable at all - they are stretchy and I always size up. Heels don't bother me (but I wear flats too) and as Adelfa says I would hate it if I had to wear pants in the summer. The great thing is, we CAN wear jeans, Converse, a tee and a sweater if the occasion allows and no one will think anything of it. Girls for the win!

rae

(website)

Veteran

Just to be clear, I see men in women's skirts, too. Hm, where have I been hanging out?? But to be fair to your argument, they aren't short, structured minis.

kkards

Veteran

well, i don't know about you, but i know (and work with) way to many men who are wearing the wrong size clothing. maybe that was their size last year (or last decade), but sometimes you do have to try things on. and don't get me started on the pants that are too short (if you shrink them in the laundry, you need to replace them).
as for the hair, maybe the day to day is easier, but i am suprised at the number of men i work with who dye their gray.
and finally, i work in a really sports/fitness crazy office, and i can tell you, men are as obsessed with fitness and looking "fit", and women are. they just use different words. instead of "i'm feeling fat", it's "omg, i'm so out of shape".

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