Why do garment names have such different meanings? - YouLookFab Forum

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Why do garment names have such different meanings?

Aziraphale

Veteran

Does anyone have any insights about this? Lately we've been talking about culottes a lot, and it occurs to me that "culotte" is what they call panties in Quebec. Not sure about France. This curious double name meaning is common within the English language, too, depending on where you're from. When I was a teenager, I commented to a group of my cousin's friends that I wasn't wearing pants, and I can clearly remember their laughter and my mortification -- because of course pants doesn't mean trousers in England!

But there are so many of them. What my English mom called a "jumper" was to everyone else a sweater. Our jumper was her pinafore dress. What she called "braces" were our suspenders (I can't remember what she called the train tracks that I had on my teeth), and when she said "vest" she meant undershirt, not waistcoat. I'm sure there are more.

There seems to have been a shifting of the meaning of garment names over time, too -- like "chemise", which means blouse (right?), but I'm pretty sure that a century or two ago it meant a long white undergarment.

Anyway, this seems a good place to ask! Does anyone know why the names of things have shifted so much across time and across the Atlantic?

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38 replies

Latest reply was from rachylou

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

We can go on and on about this topic, Elisabeth. I say the bolded version:

Jumper = Sweater

Pinafore = Jumper

Knickers = Pants

Trousers = Pants

Waistcoat = Vest

Gillet = Vest

Body Warmer = Vest

Vest = Camisole

Bathing Costume (Cozzie) = Swimsuit

Braces = Suspenders

Have no idea how and why garment names have shifted over time or changed meaning across continents.

In France - we lived there for a while - they still call knickers "culottes".

Aziraphale

Veteran

Wait -- so when you say "knickers", what kind of "pants" do you mean? Underpants, or those short trousers that boys used to wear?

Aziraphale

Veteran

I say waistcoat instead of vest, too, but I think that's my only Englishism. I think of a vest as a sort of puffy sleeveless coat. To me, braces go on your teeth, suspenders hold up your pants, a jumper is a kind of overall dress thing, and a bathing suit is what you wear in the water. Trousers and pants get used interchangeably, but that's because of my early trauma in front of my cousin's buddies.

My English cousins used pants and knickers interchangeably. Sort of how we use panties, underpants and underwear interchangeably in my neck of the woods.

Thistle

Veteran

Interesting. I am sure there is a reason for it, though. Makes me wonder about geography and if some of the changes came about as pioneers didn't exactly have cell phones to keep in touch. Kind of like a long term telephone game.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Knickers are underpants. Canadian English is American English for clothing it seems - no?

Aziraphale

Veteran

Mostly yes, I think. We share a very similar vocabulary in general, but we sometimes tend toward English spellings.

rachylou

Veteran

No idea, but it's interesting! My dad was from the British West Indies. This is what I say:

Jumper, Sweater = Sweater

Pinafore = Pinafore

Knickers = Underpants

Trousers, Pants = Trousers

Knee pants, short pants = Bermuda-length shorts

Waistcoat, Gillet, Vest = Vest

Camisole = Camisole (the undergarment)

Bathsuit = Swimsuit

Braces = Suspenders

Daria

My husband calls "gilet" (in Quebec French) everything we would call pullover (or sweater :)) in English. While in classic French it would mean vest as far as I know.

Sal

Veteran

Here are my versions.

Jumper = Sweater/Jersey

Pinafore = Jumper

Knickers = Pants/Undies

Trousers/Pants = Pants

Waistcoat = Vest

Vest = Gillet

Singlet/tank = Vest

Camisole = Vest

Togs = Bathing Costume

Braces = Suspenders

Jandals = Flip Flops

G String = Thong

Brogues = Oxfords

I know the US ones and do adapt sometimes for the forum....

UmmLila (Lisa)

Veteran

I got some good ones from my Egyptian MIL, which I thought were of various Euro and mostly French derivations but was never entirely sure:

Culotteh = any lower body undies, male or female. So, yeah, when we are talking culottes it's either that or the French revolutions sansculottes that come to mind!

Sentiyon / centillon = bra (I always assumed this was French but have never heard anyone else use it)

B'lover = pullover = sweater

Daria

UmmLile - very interesting!
Sentiyon might have evolved from "soutien" (soutien-gorge is bra in French) or from another Roman language.

Jules

Veteran

Ok this only tangentially related, but funny.
My friend was in France and got a yeast infection bad enough that she a had to see a doctor. Her French is pretty good, but she got confused and then amused when they started talking about her bad case of "champignons", aka, mushrooms...

(If you're wondering how I got there from here, I had to look up bra in French to remember it is called "soutien-gorge" which literally means "support throat" or something like that. Which got me thinking about idioms in general.)

Aziraphale

Veteran

Daria, I'd bet money that you are correct about sentiyon/centillon being derived from "soutien-gorge" !

Jules, that's hilarious that they call yeast "mushrooms" in France!

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I wanted to start a clothing blog called sans culottes, but I was afraid no one would get the joke..

My favorite "I don't think it means what you think it means" clothing word is thongs. Poor Australians.

UmmLila (Lisa)

Veteran

so that's interesting on the soutien-gorge. I'm sure that's exactly the word she meant, since I was just transliterating from conversation, and am not super up to speed with French.

Aziraphale

Veteran

Laura -- oh yes! "Thongs"! That's what my mom called her flip-flops. Actually I don't think it took on the butt-floss meaning until maybe the 90s? At least out here. Up until then, we called that kind of underwear a "G-string".

Peri

Veteran

Both my parents called trousers slacks. I don't know where either word comes from but I think slacks just sounds weird!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I'm back.

I call flip flops, Thongs. And thongs, G-Strings. High five, Kiwigal.

Keturah

Veteran

I love reading this and am endlessly fascinated and entertained by the differences in idioms and words!

Echo

Veteran

And then there's always the "fanny pack"...

catgirl

Veteran

Don't forget "singlet". I learned all my British clothing terms from the Adrian Mole diaries...

Summer

Veteran

Such an interesting thread, Aziraphale. As a Brit, I use mostly the same terminology as Angie, but we have generally adopted sweater for jumper and swimsuit for bathing costume.

We have some regional and generational variations, too, such as pullover/jersey for sweater, and the exquisitely quaint "petticoat" for underslip.

When my children were small, my daughter used to walk to school with a little American friend. Both wore identical uniforms, but while my DD was dressed in a pinafore and tights, her friend wore a jumper and leotard.

To add to the list:

Ankle boots = booties

Trainers/plimsolls = sneakers/tennis shoes

Purse = wallet

Thanks to world-wide travel and the internet, I think that we mostly understand each other for much of the time!

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Suspenders = garters

The thought of men in pants and suspenders never fails to make me smile. I can't help it. I'm English.

Summer

Veteran

Approprio, you have just made me chuckle! I have that vision, too. I have the same reaction to grown women wearing booties - for me these these will always be the little knitted socks/shoes that babies wear.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

haha yeah Summer, I always think the same with booties.

And can anybody explain how a singlet became a wife beater?

Helena

Veteran

What a fun thread! Don't even get me started on the gumboot/Wellie/rainboot issues in this Australian/English/Irish/Canadian house ...

shedev

Veteran

Apprprio, from the TV show Cops. All the domestic calls seemed to have the male wearing one.

Diana

Veteran

To me, *waistcoats* are a particular type of vest - a tailored, woven, buttoned garment like that worn by men as part of a three piece suit. All other sleeveless third pieces are *vests*. But camisoles, tanks, and sleeveless blouses are their own things.

And similarly, I call dress pants trousers, but no other kind of pants. Brogues are a specific type of oxford, the type with brogue detailing. Plain front oxfords are just oxfords.

Apparently I just like specificity? I think I've picked up random britishisms since my husband lived in the UK for 2 years so he uses them sometimes.

Oh, and a chemise to me is a short, sleeveless nightgown.

Aziraphale

Veteran

I just thought of another one -- I'm trying to get my daughter our of bed and she asked for her robe, but I would be much more likely to call it a dressing gown (another Englishism passed down from my mom, I guess!).

Diana, a waistcoat is definitely the garment you describe. I would also apply the term to a similar shape garment made of leather or some other kind of material. A sleeveless jacket, however -- the kind of thing you could wear as outerwear, often puffy -- I'd call a vest. Perhaps I'd also call those long sleeveless cardigan things vests, too -- they stray too far from the normal waistcoat shape.

I agree that brogues are oxfords with brogue detailing. I use that term too, although I would use plain 'oxfords' interchangeably.

Approprio -- "man in pants and suspenders" hahhaaaaaa

Interesting how global the world is. We all now know what another person means, even if we use the exact same word ourselves to refer to a completely different garment.

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