I don't know, but they seem to use a barometer of general health. In my experience if you have health problems and/or hard life you will look older than your chronological age. In fact my coworkers and I will say oh the patient is an old 40 year old. To each other, not to the patient, obviously.

Another great read. I have been on both ends of these comments - weirdly I look both younger and older than my age at different times I guess. I was not at all pleased when a (poorly trained, but, alas, typical in these parts) SA asked me how I was dealing with hot flashes (not quite there yet, thanks). On the other hand, other people have been surprised that I am about to turn 46. My husband (who looks 30 annoyingly), repeats much of the wisdom found on this thread, and, truly, I am happier now than at any other time of my life. There is nothing at all wrong with looking your age, but, in our culture, looking young is considered the ultimate compliment. Truly, Angie, you and the other women here at YLF are responsible for making me feel and look better than I ever did about myself. Most importantly feel. So thanks everyone!

Concsiously or not, I think most of us think we "know" what 30, 40, 50, etc. looks like. Othewards, we wouldn't hear people say "you look amazing for 60!". Thank you, media. What does 60 look like? I am a happy-to-be-here-looking-at-the-working-end of 53 mother of four and there is certainly no doubt when I am out and about with my daughters (17 and 23), that I am NOT the older sister! Still, I have to admit it when someone says "you don't look 53!"----Whatever 53 is, I have to admit that I like hearing it. I always want to look (and feel) my very best and my goal is to dress to express how I am feeling inside, find the things that flatter me (can you say...anything that gives me a waist) and keep 'em guessing! Luckily, clothes are marked by size, not by age. I would HATE to be shopping for tags that said "almost 54".

I had to chime back in with two things:

1..My husband is a cancer survivor and will be turning 50 in August. A co-worker commented the other day about turning the big 5-0 and how do you feel about that? My husband's reply was "well it beats the alternative of not turning 50 doesn't it?"

2. About a two years ago I was in a clothing store and was being waited on by a fairly young SA (probably early 20's). She was very sweet and quite excitedly said to me "I love your silver highlights - where did you get that done?" My reply "oh just wait 30 years honey, you'll get your own".

Yes, Anna, socioeconomic status (SES) and different levels of exposure to adversity do seem to affect aging, broadly speaking. People are starting to research "weathering," meaning aging more quickly in terms of health and appearance based on SES. Some things are very clearly tied to SES, like the state of one's teeth for example. This is one thing, among many others (like genes, sun exposure, smoking and other habits), that contributes to the diversity within every age.

There's nothing wrong at all with looking one's age, but this whole 'age' thing really came into play when it came to a layoff and subsequent job search for my husband.

Turns out that everyone who got laid off that same day were all in their late 40's, early 50's and late 50's. All with extremely good performance reviews in years previous. All at the top of their salary range. Turns out being "older" means you're the first one to get laid off, and further - this kind of thing can be an impediment to getting hired. This is a bigger deal than anyone wants to admit - but it's true.

My husband happens to look very young for his age, and managed to luck out on this front - and got a much better job than his old one - but the thing is - I'm about 99% convinced there is some serious "age-ism" going on in the job market. You could be the healthiest person in the world, but because you're a certain age - then the healthcare premiums paid by your employer are going to be higher, even if you're in perfect health. Some companies don't want to hire someone who's more than about 45-ish, at least not for a good-paying job that comes with decent benefits.

So, in this respect, - yes, it absolutely does matter if you "look your age".

Probably a whole lot better to just start your own business, if you ask me.

Nothing wrong with looking like yourself as you would at any age, given your particular biology and your environment and the interaction thereof! That's my take on it anyway.

Loved Rae's comment on that, and I want Suz's as a T-shirt slogan to hang on my wall.

That said, the real problem isn't that there's anything wrong with someone guessing our age or with anyone looking like they *really* earned all their 40 years of experience in the big bad world. The real problem is that people make *value judgements* based on age, and often the guessing game is just the start of it. There are people whose sole snide point in telling you that you look 'well preserved' is that you obviously are too interested in looks. There are people who will dismiss your ability at work and compare you unfavourably to X or Y, because you look or sound 'younger' according to them, or you are chronologically younger. And I'm sure it plays out the other way too --- teens aren't the only ones being derisive of the middle-aged and beyond. VC's comment really has something important to say there!

Personally, I've struggled against the age bias at both ends. I apparently have a body that grows/ages in odd spurts, so that I very rarely 'look my age'. At 6, I was repeatedly denied admission by schools because heads and their secretaries insisted I had to be 10, at least (I looked like I'd hit puberty or was barely prepubescent; understandable mistake, but unreasonable in the face of the evidence of a birth certificate). At 10, there were distant cousins who'd decide I was of marriageable age and come up with lists of prospective grooms, or worse, actual proposals --- awfully awkward! At 18, i could pass for 28 --- often very useful, sometimes quite unpleasant in the face of a certain sort of 'persistence'. At 28, I was underpaid for the job I was doing and the position I held --- because no one my age had ever had that position, so I should be grateful I got even that! By 30, family members on each side were pointing out that I look so much older and more haggard than my SO (he's a year younger; we were classmates at university), and some were going so far as to suggest there had to be something wrong with a woman who tried to trap a younger man and with a man who insisted on tying himself to an older man when he could easily 'do better'! (I'll shamefacedly admit here that I tried, for a very brief time, to 'dress younger' to avoid the stares and remarks of strangers at least --- but thankfully better sense prevailed before long!)

Slightly OT, I find my weight does strange and wonderful things to my apparent age. When I have extra pounds on me, it smoothes out my face and renders it younger up close... but from a distance, my body looks lumpier and saggier, hence older! Make-up sometimes has a similarly wrinkle- and dark-circle enhancing effect, so I'm guessing inexpert application is 'ageing' too? It's the cosmetic equivalent of stumpifying clothes perhaps?

Which brings me to the other area of social perceptions I struggle with: height. There are actual studies to show that the taller get paid more (how often have you met a short CEO?) --- a good book on this that addresses the scientific mechanism of judgement and its basis, rather than engaging in a harangue, is 'Blink'. Highly recommended to anyone interested in first impressions and appearance judgement!

Question to ponder for another day: Is trying to dress taller as wrongheaded and counterproductive and stereotype-perpetuating as trying to look younger?

Nothing wrong with looking your age. If you know how to do it. Funny I default to thinking about looking more dowdy/ frumpy that too young and showy.
I have an idea of what a 49/50 yr old from when I was growing up and I don't want to be that woman--it's an outdated notion. And that those women aren't me and who I am is why I came to find YLF to reset my notions on my stereotype figure and I don't end up in navy polyester elastic pants under a shiny fushia button shirt done up to the chin and giant macaroni looking broach ;0) . Real jeans are still in my future.

I have a story to add. Last week, I was visiting a friend who has recently turned 41 as well as given birth to her third child. This woman is fit and athletic -- an avid skier and soccer player -- but she had a baby four weeks ago, so she's not sleeping much and her belly is still all poofy and flaccid from the pregnancy. Anyway, she went into a liquor store with her younger sister, who is 35 or 36, I believe. The guy at the cash desk told my friend's sister that she did not need to present her identification, since she was with her mom. My friend was MORTIFIED.

Now, the cash desk guy must have been delusional, because there is no way that my friend looks like she could be her sister's mother. But it's true that she looks a little rougher than usual at the moment, owing to the circumstances; plus, her outdoorsy lifestyle has given her browner skin and more creases and lines than her sister has. But her reaction was telling. It shows how a woman really feels about being mistaken for much older than she is.

How would you feel, if it happened to you?

Although was Shannon says is true also. Consider the alternative.

I am nodding my head so much reading through the comments on the thread, as I'm very much in agreement that it's not a bad thing to look your age - and that looking your age at 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 doesn't mean sacrificing style or fashion or your preferences or having to be frumpy.

However.

I also don't want to look prematurely aged in certain ways. My skin tone looks great with red hair but I know it was hard to flatter my complexion when I was blonde; I think that a pure silver would probably look good on me when I get to that point but salt and pepper would probably make me look pretty ashy. My dad went prematurely gray (like, by his early 30s) but it turned into a lovely white-silver (think Meryl Streep in The Devil Wears Prada) shade that I love. I'm in my late 20s, and I'm just starting to see my first strands of white when I look hard, but I hope they don't invite their friends. I want to dye my hair now because it's fun and I like it, not because I feel that I have to!

I'm also very conscious of my complexion. I have sensitive skin that burns easily (which is why I'm so pissed off whenever I forget to reapply sunscreen and end up lobster-faced) and have scarring from acne as a teen. My nana smoked for nearly her entire life, and it REALLY showed on her skin - when I was a toddler, I saw a picture of E.T. and called out her name. She actually was quite a lovely, beautiful woman with high cheekbones and fine Swedish facial figures, but was really prematurely aged by cigarettes. I would be thrilled if my skin looked half as good as Angie's client Karen when I reach that age, and I'm trying to put in work to baby and protect my skin now so that it won't look so ravaged by time as I age. My mom reminds me to make sure to apply sunscreen on my neck/decollete area as well as my hands/lower arms, as they receive more sun exposure on a daily basis, and she feels that her hands look more aged due to sun damage.

Interesting topic! and great comments here. I've spent the last 10 years trying to appear older at work in a business where young and female isn't always an advantage. And having a sister who passed away far too young at 39, my answer to anyone who complains about getting older has been the same as Shannon's husband..."it sure beats the alternative, doesn't it?!"

I'm at a point where I'm happy to be the age I am! And I feel like the last 10 years are a good thing for me career-wise and I no longer need to try to appear older than I am. I think that has had a lot to do with my participation here - I don't wear my suits to appear older and wiser - now I want to edge them up a little!

I don't think its a faux pas.
But yes you should not dress like a 15 year old when you are 30. Around 20s is ok. But yes should maintain your dignity and your self respect. Showing too much skin when not necessary in your 40s or 50s can be quite awkward at times since we are not 15 or 18 years to show cleavages.
Dressing or not is not important but behaving your age is the most important.

Nothing. And... "this is what 68 looks like!", to riff off of MaryK's reminder of Gloria Steinem's famous response.

I too feel like "this is what 45 looks like". It took until i was nearing my 40's to feel comfortable that age was just a number. For my late twenties until mid thirties I was working hard career wise with looking mature (even though my actions spoke for themselves. I was 5 going on 30 my mother always says) and as I got closer to 40 realized that was just silly and MY hangup and not the worlds.

I am still not ready to let the gray come in and be seen but I don't think otherwise I "look" a definable age. Society already puts so many stereotypes on women and in turn, we put enough internal pressures on ourselves, to add worrying about age to the list. I am thankful I am not a big Hollywood actor - the ageism women go through in that business seems ruthless.

My husband is also a 50 year old cancer survivor - he has the same attitude - better to be ANY age than complaining about things you can't control. "Enjoy life for today and if you can plan for tomorrow so much the better" is one of the best lessons we learned from that
experience.

I

I'm turning 59 next week and have no problems with looking my age, although eight or ten years ago it would have mattered more to pass for a younger age. I don't have gray hair, am still slender and have a waist, but a the aging process definitely accelerated for me last year, a few years after menopause. It's beginning to be painful to look in the mirror, and I only wish I looked as good as the "bad days" from five years ago. But such is life and I'm happy to be here!

My goals are to dress well and stand up straight. And remain physically active, which for me is mainly bicylcing and long walks. This weekend I'm doing a 100k bike ride in the Sierras (also rode it last year).

I am in excellent health and have great stamina. I still have a good figure. However, my face shows its age. That's a trait that runs in my family. My brothers are the same: young bodies, old faces. It goes with having an active, outdoorsy lifestyle and "bad" Anglo-Saxon skin. I don't mind any more! It did bother me in my 40s though. I was really trying to look younger.

Now my style icon is Keith Richards. He looks his age, even older maybe. But he has a distinct style, and never fails to look cool, and interesting. I would rather look old and cool than young and dorky.

Just had to leave a quick comment.

Angie said style is not a size an age or any other silly media hype. So why should age be any different.
I just turned 53 and I am happy in my own skin so I don't mind if somone guessed my true age

Guess I am like lots of others... I do get a little lift if people act shocked about my age and I find I am starting to not tell them my kids' age - bit hard for them to reconcile their perception of me being in my 30s since I have a 28 year old. What has been most interesting that I am not worried about my sense of self or how I look per se (bar all the things others have said about seeking to take care of self and be best can be) but that people will suddenly start thinking of you differently when they have a number next to you. I was MORE upset when someone said that the reason you like using pencil on paper for developing ideas and accessing parts of our creativity in a flexible way is because I WAS BROUGHT UP WITHOUT COMPUTERS... Hello! Like dressing, its about the tools that work to make you who you are and being part of life not about categorisation. So lovely for so many people to reflect that they are so glad to have made it this far and still having a good laugh and coordinated shoes! Yes please

I am always perplexed by this looking your age business because it's obviously all in other people's minds! And people are typically lazy and don't look very hard but pick up cues according to their preconceptions about various items you're wearing. I notice that many women who are prematurely grey are deemed blonde. I'm short and blondish, anyway, and that causes people to think of me as much younger. Also, I'm a modified hourglass and if I wear clothing, including coats, that shows off shapeliness, people assume I'm much younger. I had on a red wool 3/4 jacket a year or so ago and the people next door had a visitor, youngish man in late 20's or early 30's I would guess :D, and he asked how long I'd lived here. (Trying to pick me up, I think) Stopped to think and said oh over 20 years. He said, Ohh you live with your mom. (I'm 63) And if I wear a blazer when there isn't any "need" for one and I haven't worn it in Blogger Chic conventional style, I get called Ma'am. I'm not a regal, dignified sort of person and I'm usually going for "pretty." People focus in on that. I have a long-time neighbor on the other side, street smart woman in her early 30's who does live with her mom, and she has exclaimed at various times, "You're so *pretty*!" (I've never been conventionally pretty) and "You never get old!" There's a fella who hangs out at the laundramat, somewhat brain-damaged, and he called out to my husband when we walked past, "Your wife never gets old." So I think, in my case, it's a combination of casual, outgoing confidence and a choice of a pretty image for clothing and makeup and short, blond people look younger.

The flip side of this is authority. If you talk with me, I'm obviously smart, savvy, well-read and analytical - I've always been this way, even as an older child. But it isn't important to me to be given credit or acknowledgment for it and it isn't usually obvious from my dress - other than on Ma'am days. I've often had life explained to me by much younger men because I'm short and blond. But I've chosen the friendly kind of pretty because it seems more participatory* to me and I'm a romantic. When I was truly very young I was more concerned with what people thought of me and I affected a more standoffish kind of beauty. Now I''m happy to be here with everyone. *Does anybody really want to hang out with a philosophical know-it-all?

ETA: My mother was also very short and she was an 181/2 size. Now she was regal. I used to try on her clothes when I was little and was impatient to grow into someone like her. Imagine my surprise when I grew up and was never going to be anything like that. She wore very plain short hair, just this side of butch, no makeup, plain simple not expensive clothing and shoes that allowed for her bunions. Men were besotted with her! I realized I'm just like my father. He had been an actual Communist in Eastern Europe and everybody was just the same to him. He talked to everyone, "plain talk" he called it, was friendly and approachable, had a hearty laugh and in his youth was on the stage and wore black mascara even in private life! Yup, I'm just like that, exuberantly friendly and won't go out without mascara and eyeliner.

So much food for thought and so many great responses!

I don't mind looking my age at all. This is the age I am! When I was younger I used to say that when I got older I'd never lie about my age because I'd much rather have someone thinking "Boy, she looks great for xx" than "Oh my, she's only xx? Life must have been hard!"

I've only recently (now that my daughter is 14) started getting comments about not looking my age. At first I thought they were mocking me. I'm 37 and I feel like I absolutely look 37. My hair, skin, body shape, all show my age, in my opinion. It wasn't until a sales clerk tried to stop me from joining my dd in the dressing room at victoria's secret that I realized maybe there is something to it. I still don't see it.

Just last week, in my hairdresser's chair she lamented that my few grey hairs are extremely persistant and did not take any of the permanent color she put on them. I said "Don't worry. I'm not concerned at all that anyone is looking at me thinking that I must be 24 and then having their illusion ruined by a few grey hairs." She just laughed and agreed.

I do wonder if my perceptions on age will change in the coming decades. 37 doesn't really get too many judgments from either side of the spectrum. I'm still "young" enough to hang out in a bar and dance like a fool with my friends and I'm "old" enough to be generally respected in a business setting. I may start to question looking my age if I feel like I'm being treated poorly for it.

Nothing wrong with looking your age...I am as old as punk, always have been and always will be. I intend to own my age for the rest of my life and celebrate each success along the way

What Vildy said: "..... people are typically lazy and don't look very hard but pick up cues according to their preconceptions about various items you're wearing." Not to mention height, weight, hair, etc.

I've been able to watch this one in practice with my husband. Not regarding age, but sex. He's shaped and looks very male - grizzly beard hairs and all. But he's on the short and slim side and has many times been called "ma'am" or 'young lady' or whatever. This can be pretty embarrassing - not so much for me or him, but for the perpetrator when they actually see what they're looking at and try to justify what they just said (instead of just apologizing). This has often happened with seaters at busy restaurants or similar situations where the person has to deal politely with huge gobs of people for hours on end. They don't have time to pay much attention to individuals, so they come up with 'general rules'.

I also think there's a lot to what MaryK said: "I think we (general "we") do have in our head that a woman in her 50s is going to be "old-looking," and in general I don't think that's really true any more! So perhaps it's not that we good-looking 50-somethings are particularly young-looking, it's just that people expect us to look older than we really do."

Indeed! and it's not like any of us make some sort of cross-nation study of how various people look at different ages, so frankly it's all just a bunch of guess work and/or preconceptions anyways.

I also think our culture is so youth-obsessed that we equate looking good with looking young, and looking young with looking good. So saying a person looks young is just another way of saying they look good. But it's not true. I knew a guy who got really out of shape and kind of 'bound to the couch' eating junk after high school. He got pudgy around the middle and the face and with his wispy whiskers looked pretty baby- or child-like. When he started exercising and eating better he dropped the weight and perked up. He actually looked older and more grown up, but he also looked a lot better!

FWIW. Also, a picture of my husband (the shorter guy) so you can see how 'feminine' he looks (not!). steph

Mrs E, I was in S.F. in my mid-20's and you know how you can retain water before your period and then suddenly it wants to flush out? I had been having breakfast/brunch at the top of a very tall building and drinking lots of coffee, which customarily I didn't in those days. By the time the elevator reached the bottom floor, I really needed a ladies room.

We'd been traveling quite a bit, was premenstrual, generally feeling a bit punk. I was wearing some cream colored raw silk trousers I had made - my fallback comfy clothes - and my fella's father had passed along a silky shirt in cinnamon and cream tiny houndstooth. He had hated it but I liked it and I had that on - an oversized man's shirt - and I had no makeup and my longish hair pulled straight back in a ponytail. I was tired out! I walked into a nearby hotel and asked the desk clerk for the restroom and, you knew where this was going, she said, "of course, Sir, it's right through there."

aiyeeee. (I never wore the shirt again)

I think aging is considered a bad thing because it means that, well, in theory your get nearer the end. Now, if you have a healthy mind and understand and accept that this is how life works and that it's ok to age, and become more experienced so that you can teach others a lesson or two, I think it's not much of a problem to get older -and look gracefully older.

Normally people who do not want to look their age and thus dress younger -40 year old women in teenager's clothes, for instance- feel younger in a bad way, that is, they are not mature enough for their age and act as if they were 20 -literally.

This excludes people, and especially women, trying to look younger in order to get a job. You can fight your own fears but you can't fight society. And if you need the job and your employee's priority is that you look younger, you do.

Personally, I look younger than my age, and of course I don't care. My features are quite soft and rounded, and my skin is pretty thick, so even if it doesn't look that pretty, it doesn't wrinkle that much either.

I wish I had time to read all of the thoughtful responses here. It is a topic that I would like to explore more deeply.

I absolutely want to look my age. It is one of my style goals. But I don't want to look haggard or unkempt at any age, whether it's now, 15 years ago, or 15 years from now.

I'm baffled by all the "what does xx age look like anyways?!" comments. Really? I think it's pretty easy to peg someone to the decade, if not to within 5 years. Of course you get the "outliers" - people who look older or younger than you might expect due to influences like awesome genetics, commitment to or lack of exercise, substance abuse (cigarette, alcohol, etc), plastic surgery, current or dated fashions... But in general, I've accrued enough clues in my late 30s to not be terribly surprised when I learn someone's age.

I also don't associate looking good only with being young (?!). If I think someone looks like their in their 50s, it's not because I think they have one foot in the grave. Goodness.

After my mom passed away, I found in her documents some notes from one of her doctors which made quite a big point of how young she appeared for a woman of her age (the notes were made when she was in her 60s). I do think this is something common in the medical profession. In general, healthy people look healthy, and they tend to look their age or younger. My dearest friend is a doctor and has mentioned that she's been surprised numerous times by a patient's age when she looks from the person to the chart, because she sees a lot of seriously ill people, and they often look older than their years. So I think there's something to the point made that looking your age or younger can send other people the impression of health and vitality. Of course, there is a danger in this too -- people can look great but be seriously ill also. My dad rarely *looked* sick, but suffered four heart attacks and died at the age of 65 from heart disease.

Our Western culture values youth, unfortunately to the degree where age and wisdom are often undervalued (the comments about job-seekers over 40 or so are all too correct, sadly).

This is a thought provoking question, Angie. I have never had anybody try to guess my age so I don’t know how I would feel if someone did that. I think, I don’t strive to look younger but I do strive to look confident, stylish and more in control.

I think I just want to look like who I am. I do not want to look younger than I am (39). I suppose I want to embrace all parts of my life, good and bad, and subconsciously if I want to look younger than I am then I feel as if I am also denying some of those years and experiences.

Does that make any sense? This is not a judgement on anyone else's views, purely an attempt to express what I feel inside about myself.

If people tell me I look good for my age, or even if I look younger then they am (which they don't lol) then I would just take it as the compliment it is meant for - I also sometimes use that myself of other people when I know that it will be welcomed.

I would like to take care of myself and look good and I think that's all!

I would actually just love to look like my age, because I always get the comment that "you don't look old enough to be a doctor" or "you look 12". Supposed to be a compliment, but ugh! I just want to be taken seriously! I don't really look that young, do I? Would you guess by my pics that I am almost 39 or do I really look like I'm in my teens or 20's? I think that is totally ridiculous, especially given the 15 years of medical training I went through. Maybe when I turn 40 or 50 though I'll appreciate looking young more.

The "appears older/younger than stated age" is pretty pervasive in the medical charts (although I don't use it much) but is just a shorthand for how healthy someone looks. I agree it is not the greatest measure.