Zaeobi I think you are quite right and I thank you for writing your post.

Something that I think this discussion is all dancing around is that "boho" is often a kind of shorthand for patterns/cuts/styles inspired by or borrowed (read: appropriated) from the Global South and colonized peoples. Boho connotes a free spirit, someone who doesn't conform to the dominant norms, etc...but what does it mean that the signifiers of "counterculture" are just...someone else's culture?

I remember a conversation some years ago with a half-Asian friend in which she expressed some jealousy that I "could" wear a cheongsam. (I don't think I was wearing one at that moment, although I have owned and worn one -- thrifted! -- in the past; I cant remember the exact context of the conversation.) Anyway the point was that on a White woman like me it would read as fashion/personal style. On her it would read as "ethnic dress."

I do think this is changing now for which I am very glad, but I certainly don't think we are all the way there and I really appreciate the reminder that all this is still very complex for women of color.

For myself I truly adore the textiles and handicrafts characteristic of many cultures around the world and I honor the people (often women) who make them. I think A LOT about how to incorporate such items into my own dress in a respectful way and don't pretend to have all the answers.

I could go on; I keep typing and deleting stuff. So maybe I'll just say that I can't wait to see your new dress!

Loved your Joni reference and subsequent context, Suz!

I think, for me, Joni nails my uneasy relationship with the social construction of the unconventional, free-spirited, long-haired, artistic bohemian girl, wearing a pair of ripped jeans and an off-the-shoulder, open-necked, loose blouse. This trope of the French “grisette” has always been a goldmine for designers because of its perceived rejection of the image of staid, middle class “bourgeoisie” values.

Maybe “boho-lite” and it’s close relation—the slightly older “arty-cousin“— are ways of dabbling in a fantasy lifestyle without having to give up my credit cards or supportive insoles?

That's a fun outfit, shevia. I like the shape of the pants, especially with sandals. I wasn't in a position to comment (or think critically at all) on the blog yesterday, but I honestly think everything I put on ends up kind of boho--something about my hair or my attitude or the way I naturally accessorize and wear my clothes. I'm totally okay with that.

ETA: I'm so relating to everything Suz wrote about, and what suntiger said, in terms of the idea of being "artsy" in society. There's a tension between "creative" and "serious" and "counter-cultural" and "commercial" that surely plays out in self-perception and style trends.

I think you’re all super eloquent and clever! Wow! Beautifully deconstructed, explained, and quite academic. A joy to read. So I’m going on holiday...bye!

But first I have to tell Jaime how fab and cute she looks. Right down to the Birkies, pretty shoulders, and free spirited hair

Zaeobi, I love what you wrote -- thank you so much for sharing all of that with us; it's such an important and valuable perspective. And can't wait to see your dress!

SarahDB, yes to all you said as well...such an interesting conversation.

I think we've talked about boho style before, years ago, and came to some recognition that the roots are varied. Some definitely would be the global south. There's an element that is sort of "western-romantic" as well, as Zaeobi said -- western as in the west (cowboy boots), or western as in Europe, think romantic poet. Or "milkmaid" in Zaeobi's word...those tiered or lace-trimmed cotton skirts could come from the global south or the prairie or from women's undergarments in Europe in the 17th-19th centuries.

Jaime, you look lovely in your outfit.

Zaeobi, you wrote what I was thinking. The word Boho is something that I have difficulty with, but I still use it. I also have recently started to look differently at the whole hippie culture. I won't get into that here, though. I am still sorting it out.

I have a Boho shadow side. There have been times in my life when I have been full-on Boho. I could easily slip back there, but I resist.

Modern boho style seems to me to involve a lot of cultural appropriation and "festival style" instead of a nod to the "peace and love" style of the 60s and 70s. My personal problem with boho is that it's too fussy with all the prints and ruffles and maxi dresses and fringes and tassels and everything else that goes with a boho look; none of that is my thing.

I love that top, Jaime. It looks great on you.

I grew up in the 70s, so I have no problem with boho, and am happy to wear the elements of it that suit my broad-shouldered frame in the summer months.

You’ve gotten lots of good replies.

For me, it can be easy to overwhelm myself with too much fabric. I don’t like things that seem fussy. A boho top or topper that flows nicely over my body is great, but if that fabric starts to bunch up, get caught on things, or just pile up in too many folds, then it’s a pain and it makes me look like floppy and like a try-hard (which is a word from the gaming world, which I’ve discussed on here before) at the same time.

Jaime, thank you so much for this post. You look wonderful in that outfit! And, thank you all for the great read. So many articulated perspectives.

Gaylene, your comment, "This trope of the French “grisette” has always been a goldmine for designers because of its perceived rejection of the image of staid, middle class “bourgeoisie” values." is why I have been drawn to the boho style at various times in my life.

As chaos develops around me I revert to boho. In the 60's it was the war unrest and I am feeling it now with the current unrest happening around the world. My boho style has not been the multi layered look. That has more structure than I want. I crave the flowy soft dresses and sandals. My hair is down to the middle of my back again after 30 years donning a pixie.

Yes, I suppose I am rebelling again.

I love this blouse on you ...it is boho-ish in my view, and looks terrific on you.
My personal aversion to boho-chic, is the oversized fit of most of the garments today, and a flashback to a rather unsophisticated, hippie-style look of teens in the 60’s and 70’s . I much prefer tailored clothing on my small frame. I see that tie-dye is making another comeback...3rd or 4th time around that I’ve seen. Also part of that 60’s look.

I was around in the 60’s and 70’s...a teen , and while some of the items were oversized , we wore them with other, very form fitted items. For instance ,the blouse you have on would have been worn with very tight jeans , with very wide bell bottoms . Everyone had long hair that was in a rather natural state. No curling irons , blow dryers or flat irons until mid to late 70’s.
So , in short, I will wear a flowey blouse , but not flowey pants or more than one oversized item, it truly overwhelms my frame. I like it on others though.

I am truly blown away by these thoughtful and thought provoking responses. I am glad I scratched the surface of the boho ambivalence I saw !
Janet - Definitely agree that going all in to one type of style is not what today is about. Or any day in my book!
SarahD8 - And agree that boho is prettty wide and varied with lots to pick and NOT choose! And yes to the complicated aspects of cultural appropriation vs. the ethos of freedom.
Bijou - I don't see your style as boho. You are always a glam Hitchcock star to me. But of course that might include pieces of isolated boho here and there.
Laura - Yes, the 80s were quite the reaction to the boho 70s. Interesting!
Greenjeans - Nice to see you and yes, I do think there is a lot of signaling and fine distinctions, conscious or not, going on.
Zaeobi - Thank you for your fascinating comment. I actually see a lot of structure and discipline in the style of clothes you are talking about. To me that is not boho, but of course that means nothing next to your actual experience in the UK. And it makes a lot of sense that British Boho is more heavily influenced by Indian/Pakistani/subcontinental style than Western US stuff. And the irony of it all is a whole other discussion. The dissection and distinction of local boho would be a fun thesis!
Can't wait to see your yellow dress!
bonnie - I can visualize your hitchhikers,summer and winter, perfectly.
Gail - Agree that the refined boho Brooklyn posted is a whole other ballgame!
Gaylene - Indeed. Anyway, it would be hard to buy the "grisette" look without those credit cards.
Jenn - Hope all is well. I do think you have a boho element to your style. And yes.
Suz - But also eastern Europe - the original bohemian rebelling against a autocratic system. I think today's Kafkaesque times make boho dressing more appealing somehow.
Style Fan - Yes hippies are perhaps better as an ideal than a closely examined reality.
cindysmith - Yes, how free are we if our clothes encumber us?
Kate
Fashintern - Although you do have a boho side to your style.
deb - I am with you. Like I wrote above to Suz today's Kafkaesque times demands boho - at least from me.
taylor - You know yourself and your own style perfectly, and are graceful inside and out.
Angie - heh heh, free spirited hair, I like that! And I wish you could go on your vacation.

Jaime, I went through the 60s and 70s. I like the way you put that. Sometimes looking back with fondness we forget a lot. The music was fantastic and Taylor has a point about how the clothes were worn.

This is an awesome thread.
Thanks Shevia for starting it and especially Zaeobi for your contribution. I think we did discuss this before, maybe in 2017. And cultural appropriation was a big issue. I decided I would try not to use the word as much, and would use the word “peasant” instead. Although that could be problematic as well in seeming to glamourise rural poverty from a century or two back!
Brooklyn, I can’t see anything “boho” at all about those Chloe looks ...

PS I found the thread: it was from 2017, written by Traci, called “ Cultural Appropriation”, a long and fascinating read.

Going to save this thread and come back and reread it. So much to ponder and think about.
that being said, Sheiva i think you look fab.

Shevia, first of all, you look amazing - that top is great on you and your whole look is effortless.

So much wisdom here (as always!) I love this space.

My parents grew up in the 60s; I remember my mom in bell bottoms with long straight hair (like Cher, pre-sequins) and head scarfs, my dad in wide collar shirts and loads of polyester, platform shoes (I still joke that he was the missing Gibb brother), and summers in cutoff denim. We road tripped every year until I was about 6 or 7 in a VW bus. I take a lot of my boho inspiration from old photos of those times - whether they are truly the definition of 'boho' or not. I think you can embrace the vibe of an era, without going full on (unless that's your thing). I have boho elements in looks that feel authentic, but I don't think I lean too far hippy. Although, I wouldn't mind burning my bra right about now...

Comment deleted: I had replied before reading the other comments and see now that others have put the same things much better already!

Shevia, your outfit is fab on you! It all works together and perfectly suits your style without calling a lot of attention to itself. I would totally wear the whole outfit myself (with the top in a different color; sadly I can’t wear those beautiful earth tones). Maybe, now that I’m thinking it through more carefully, there’s more Boho to my style than I realized.

I’m glad you started what has turned into an incredibly interesting discussion!

I just went back and read Zaeobi’s thoughtful post. I very much agree about the appropriation of culture, and have posted before about various designers/retailers making exact copies of designs or styles and selling them for big $$$$.

A related issue I see is in “tolerant” European and N American areas where styles and ways of living from other places and whatever other ways of living that diverge from the normalized style of the day are all put on an equal footing. One specific instance of this I recall hearing from a friend who had a PhD in biochemistry, worked out hard every day, was extremely careful in his money management and overall a very careful guy was about women who were attracted to him. They “didn’t mind” that, being from Guinnea Conekry, he did things differently than they had been raised. They did things differently too. And then he’d see their homes—dirty and unkempt. He spoke about this more directly than my other friends, but I remember quite a few African guys I knew agreeing with the general vibe that their culture and traditions were being put on par with carelessness and dirt—if everything is OK, then their cultures weren’t any more valuable than dirt. There is more to fetishization of Black men than that, of course, but it was chilling to me to see this connection for the first time.

But I’m far off the topic of fashion. “Boho” style can be traced back at least to the 1920s when it had many of these same issues—absynth and opium were frequently used by the “boho” rebellious women who fancied peasant and South Asian styles. Its revival in the 1960s was tied again to “peace, love, and understanding” which could be understood in a strong way, as societal ideals which are difficult to achieve, but are more often interpreted as that shrug that says nothing is better than anything else. The style still has that connotation.

In my mind, there is a cavernous difference between wearing things that drape nicely, are voluminous (but not too much) are made of natural fibers in ways that show the weave or slubs, with tassels, embroidery, and other embellishments, on one hand, and wearing specific items from another culture, on the other.

My Somali sisters-in-law (he and I nevr legally married, but they didn’t know that) were delighted to get me dresses like theirs, and I admired their way of putting together patterns I never would have matched. I wore the dresses they gave me when I was in Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Dar es Salaam, and I wore hijab when it was called for (including once to a Somali funeral in Europe). I might wear a head scarf as a scarf now, but not in a way that pretends to a belief I don’t have. I might wear some of the dresses around the house. Not because I think they are inferior, but because wearing them outside would, in my mind, be making a claim to be something I’m not. I see it as similar to my son learning African-American Vernacular. He is seen and treated as a Black person, so that language is his. No matter how much I love him and how close I become to him or any other Black individual, I will never have that experience, and so I don’t use that language. I’m not only talking about the N-word, but other words, phrases, pronounciations, and sentence structures as well.

There are at least three distinct meanings to “Bohemian”: relating to a region between Germany and Checkia where we think my great-grandmother’s family lived; anything connected to peasant or non-Western cultures; a collection of stylistic features such as natural materials, fits that are not binding, and ornamentation, whether in clothing or interior design. I don’t know how we separate one from the others. Words morph and take on new meanings, often without shedding their previous meaning (using a mouse to browse through your desktop to remove spam, anyone?). Although I argue many times for changing language usage that is problematic, I don’t think that is the point here. In my mind, not fetishizing or stealing—literally stealing the intellectual property—cultural creations is the point here.

Is there an easy way to signify what we do and do not mean when we use this word?

Ah, FashIntern, that sure added to the depth of the discussion as well!
I re-read the old thread from 2017 last night and some links that La Ped had provided about the use of the word “Gypsy” as well, and was startled to see that one of the specific examples mentioned was New Zealand’s “Famous Gypsy Fair”. And I think my cousin had emailed that her son had travelled around last summer with that. I don’t think he has that heritage at all. So here is the problem happening in my own family.
I didn’t want to make too big a thing of it here, there’s obviously a thread of influence that connects these types of “boho” clothing that is pretty wide-ranging. And thank you Brooklyn for the interesting article about the Chloé range. I accept the connection of that range to this sort of clothing but can’t really relate to it, those clothes look way different to my concept with the white thrifted peasant blouse I recently bought.
I guess there isn’t any easy way to determine what we mean about this type of clothing and I don’t feel strongly enough to object to the word “boho”, I think I will just try to limit it myself.
And Shevia I love your blouse!

Such a cute top! I think boho has gotten a little embarrassing because of all the hazy shoots of tipi’s, bunting and ‘gypsy’ girls with their mouths hanging open...

Oh Rachy, Rachy, Rachy. You are the best!!

Thanks for the encouragement in sharing my opinion, @Suz. I just posted my version of 'boho' in WIW. Although @rachylou's comment sums up what I was trying to say quite nicely.

@SarahD8 I find myself nodding along & agreeing with what your half Asian friend said to you about looking 'ethnic' in certain clothing. To take what you said another step further, if dressing in such clothing shows how 'free spirited' you are, then could such a culture's clothing ever be considered 'polished' or acceptable workwear (like I mentioned in my original comment)? Or will they always be seen as something that people dabble in in the office but wouldn't ever wear 'seriously' to the office? I ask this because it has very real effects on how non-western cultures conduct their lives even now - my husband had a modified tang/ zhongshan suit made for our wedding, which had a few Western features added (such as a pocket square). It's a very smart suit, but he refuses to wear it to interviews because he says it reads as 'too Chinese' for work. But we live in HK! If such a suit is 'too Chinese' to wear to work in Hong Kong, then in which country's workplace could it be seen as professionally acceptable (if any)?

I think @Shevia touched on this well by talking about the original Bohemian idea in politics, as a shedding of the 'norm'. But as we become increasingly globalised, it's important to step back & reconsider what the 'norm' even is (or should be), re: which of my husband's suits are wedding- or work-appropriate. @FashIntern's points about this are very valid too re: who can claim or flit between which types of dressing.

Yes @Jenni NZ a lot of these words can carry alternate connotations, can't they? Even re: the 'milkmaid' term that I've used, I read an interesting Man Repeller article about how the adoption of this style as a modern trend is glossing over the actual work involved when wearing such a style (i.e. the hard labour that milkmaids often have to do aren't really factored into the pristine photoshoots of 'milkmaid' tiered skirts &/ or 'peasant' blouses). Re: the past posts on cultural appropriation, I wish there was an easy way to search the past YLF archives for them. We need a forum search bar!

Those milkmaids did indeed work hard! They also got cowpox, which saved them from smallpox. So we are back to pandemics, yet again...

My response to Angie’s original blog post might have been one of the comments that got Shevia thinking! SarahD8 and Zaeobi’s comments re “boho” and the Global South mirror my thinking, and are so nicely put that I have little to add. That said, one of my objections to “boho” as interpreted in the West is that often taken as causal. For work and professional meetings I often combine a hand-embroidered Mexican huipil* with a tailored jacket and pants, block heels and pearl stud earnings. The effect is streamlined, polished and chic by Western standards. Its a go-to look for me: it’s professional, and it celebrates fine craftwomanship and my cultural background *A huipil is an embroidered blouse traditional to Indigenous Mesoamerica (thank you Jenni for prompting me to use the proper term).

Once again I am blown away by the responses on this thread. Although I a have read each one carefully, I am going to reread the whole thing again to make sure I have absorbed it all.
Meanwhile:
Style Fan: I think there are very few cultural movements or moments that live up to the hype. That is the nature of hype after all!
Jenni NZ: Interesting. I actually find the word peasant more problematic than boho. The word boho is a blanket term that cuts itself from its Bohemian routes and so much else that it just screams artificial to me. And thank you!
Brooklyn: Thank you for that beautiful rabbit hole, and I agree with you. Chloe is refinied boho in the fashion sense if anything is.
kkards: Thank you!
nemosmom: My dream childhood! But I am keeping my bras !
Liesbeth: So much good stuff on this thread, isn't there?
Windchime: Thank you!
FashIntern: I firmly believe that we do not own our words once they are uttered (or worn, so to speak). I agree that there is a difference between you and your son using certain words, even though he is, obviously, your son. All I can do is try to be sensitive to context and apologize if I inadvertently offend someone. Problem is we often don't know.
rachylou and deb:
Zaeobi: You make excellent points! But there is the theoretical problem with your husband not being able to wear his wedding suit in HK, and then there is the practical point that he is going on the interview to get the job not make a theoretical point! I think finding the line between appropriation and influence or even homage is increasingly difficult the more global we become.
Suz: Now that is a point to ponder !
avicennia: Thank you for your comment. More to think about. And if I may say, I would love to see that outfit!

Very very late to the thread but such an interesting one.

Shevia - you look fab!
YLF Forum - you are fab!