What exactly is business professional dress for women? - YouLookFab Forum

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What exactly is business professional dress for women?

katiwei

I'm starting a job as support staff at a law firm soon. The recruiter recommended that I start out wearing business professional dress and see what my team tends to wear. For the past two years I've worn a casual wardrobe to work, so this is a big change!

For men it seems pretty clear that "business professional" means a full suit and tie, but it seems blurrier for women. Many websites suggest a pant or skirt suit, but state that the jacket doesn't have to match the bottoms.

I feel like I have a solid handle on true business casual dress, so is business professional (for women) just adding a jacket?

Dressing

32 replies

Latest reply was from Stagiaire Fash

Natalie

I worked for two law firms as a lawyer; it was many years ago, but those institutions seem not to have changed much. I would say adding a jacket will help, but business professional for women is more about looking polished all the time. Depending on the firm, that can mean only closed toe shoes, no bare legs, no sleeveless, and no cleavage, ever. Nothing scuffed or needing repair. Looking your most pulled together.

Your recruiter gave good advice. If there is a way to scope out the way people are dressed before you actually appear for work (i.e., do you have to visit HR to complete paperwork, or can you hang out in the lobby for a while to see people come and go?), I'd also recommend that. Good luck!

Tanya

Veteran

I believe that in it's strictest form business professional requires complete suits: blazer with a matching pant or skirt, and professional sheath dresses with matching blazers.

Sal

Veteran

I think any of these would be fine for all but the most conservative of settings:

smart jacket/blazer and sheath dress
smart jacket/blazer, blouse/shirt/shell top with a smart skirt or work trousers
matching trouser or skirt suit

Worn with pumps or flat closed toe shoes....

In some settings the jacket may not be required and you could just wear a blouse and pants, or a classy sweater and skirt for example. Sandals could be fine in some settings and boots.

If you are unsure I would ensure I had a minimum to get through the first week (one jacket, two bottom options and three shirts/blouses/shells) and then go from there.

Good luck!!

Anonymous

Having worked a lot with attorneys, I would have to say a skirted suit. I realize that Tanya and Sally suggested pants suits, but in real life, I never actually saw a single attorney wearing a pants suit. The attorney with which I worked most closely wore the same exact suit to every single meeting. So she only owned the one suit. It worked for her.

There is good news though, some of the attorneys I worked with "dressed down" when they were not in court or in meetings. On those occasions, pants with a blazer were fine. One attorney even wore orange shoes.

Aida

Veteran

Have a look through forum member MsMary's outfits for work.

unfrumped

Veteran

I have tended to think that support staff probably wear slightly less "formal" business attire and especially not needing the full-on "court outfits", so I like the "polished" description.

It makes good sense to start off with the tight capsule described, potentially overdressing but playing it safe to get your bearings. And agree it would be great if you could reconoiter! You'd like to avoid going out to buy the "wrong" things and then not be able to get more of the right things, so it may depend on whether you feel you could get, if you don't already have, one versatile suit that works as smart skirt and/or trousers as well.

Sadie

Look at this website- she's a petite (5 foot) and I don't know your height, but she's an attorney and posts about what she wears to court, to the office, etc:
http://www.helloframboise.com

Robin

I think you should ask your manager or HR for guidance rather than going out to buy new things based on your recruiter's advice.

I have practiced as a lawyer in big firms for 15 years and was a paralegal before law school, and I agree with most of the advice above (not the bit about skirts though- pants are totally fine). At its most formal, business dress for women is a suit, meaning a jacket plus pants, a skirt or a dress in the same fabric. IME, most people also consider a jacket in a woven fabric (smooth or tweed) plus a coordinating but not matching skirt, dress or dressy trouser to be business. Unless the dress code says you need to wear hose, you should be fine going bear legged (when the weather is appropriate). Do err on the side of more conservative footwear until you get a feel for the place.

Ms Mary nails business professional dress that's more relaxed than full on matching suit, but I'm not sure you'll need to go as dressy unless your firm's dress code explicitly says it's business dress.

When I was a paralegal at a big law firm in NYC that was strict business (full suits- guys would put their jackets on to walk to the copier), I tried to wear a jacket as much as I could but also wore cardigans or button up shirts with pencil skirts our dress trousers. I think even the strictest firms recognize that an all-suit wardrobe is expensive and may be impractical for the non-lawyers.

As a lawyer, I've practiced at business casual firms in two east coast cities. Both firms are in the AmLaw100 for reference. Non- manager support staff at both firms would not be expected to wear a jacket every day.

What did your interviewers wear?

UmmLila (Lisa)

Veteran

If you're support staff, there's no way you need to wear suits. However you might buy one pants suit set that can cross match with another pair of trousers, a pencil skirt of some type and a non blazer jacket. And use your existing blouses and sweaters. Also if you wear a skirt, wear hose. Thnk J Crew, Ann Taylor or MM LaFleur.

MsMary

Veteran

Hey, thanks for the shout out Aida and Robin!

"Business professional" is not a term with which I am familiar. I assume it means the same as business formal, which is generally a skirt suit or dress with blazer, with hose and closed-toed shoes. I agree with Robin that even in the biggest law firms, support staff are not expected to wear full-on business formal. A skirt or dress pants with a cardigan should be fine. And please note that what I wear is most definitely not business formal. I used to call it "business semi-formal," but these days I am often tending more towards, shall we say, dressy business casual. As you can see, I wear a lot of bright colors and prints, which I feel like I can get away with because I am quite senior. As a (junior?) support staff member I would be careful with that kind of thing until you know your office.

http://Www.corporette.com is a good resource for business formal/Biglaw fashion advice. You might want to take your question to the ladies over there too.

And generally, I agree with everything that Robin says, including her observation that pants should be fine in any but the very most stuffy big-city east coast law firm.

catgirl

Veteran

Yay, Mary chimed in! So I can just say: what she said.

Also, that helloframboise site is pretty adorable - I think Inge should feature her! How do young things afford Givenchy and Chloe?

Kari

Veteran

Right on Mary! I was going to suggest Corporette too. And best to err on the side of safe/not flashy, but polished and tailored while you are new and in a support role. Think about exploring dresses with Blazers or structured jackets. I remember one attorney I saw in a great dark berry sheath and a dark brown cropped suit jacket in court while I was serving on jury duty-it seemed totally appropriate but also more interesting than the typical matching suitset.

rachylou

Veteran

The only thing I can maybe add is - I had a friend working in Texas and there, despite the heat, hose was an absolute requirement and sleeveless forbidden.

anne

Veteran

I have experience in this area, and agree that support staff do not have to wear suits. Also, and keep in mind I am in Australia, sleeveless is fine, as are suitable sandals and bare legs. (even for legal staff!)
I also think it would be fine to ask someone in HR.

Penny

Veteran

Although I work at a business-casual law firm, I agree that adding a blazer (e.g., with a dress) with closed-toe shoes would work; I feel comfortable wearing a similar look in meetings with clients and the government, which I view as business-formal occasions. Dark, muted, and neutral colors also read more formal. Although you can probably skip hose, I'd wear tights or hose until confirming what others are wearing. Congrats on the position!

Thirkellgirl

Veteran

My daughter has built a very good work wardrobe (she needs polished professional clothes for marketing visits and has days when she can dress down in the office), largely from NY&Co (their tailored shirts and pants), Loft, and Lands End, of all places. She's only 5'1" and Lands End makes petite sized dresses (sheaths) that fit her amazingly well, wear like iron, and are quite reasonable. She wears conservative heels and a blazer and really looks well put together and polished. Her latest dress is a deep red paisley sleeveless ponte sheath from Lands End and she has gotten lots of compliments on it. It would be perfectly appropriate for a law office.

Women's Petite Sleeveless Ponté Sheath Dress

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katiwei

You're all so helpful! THANK YOU!!

(MsMary's outfits and helloframboise.com are both super helpful too!)

I went in for my interview first thing in the morning, so I only saw men in suits and the two HR employees. The man wore a shirt and tie, no jacket. The woman wore a great jacket with pants (not a matching suit, so I guess this would be considered business casual).

I think I will plan my first week's outfits assuming that highly polished, professional outfits sans jackets will work well, but also have jacket options to add to each outfit based on my first day. I'll wear a jacket on my first day for sure.

The only pieces I really need to buy to get me started are 1-2 pairs of shoes, an extra jacket, and a couple pairs of bottoms, all of which will continue to work for me. I already have a nice selection of blouses.

When it comes to tops, it's clear that blouses, button down shirts, and cardigans are appropriate. What about a short or long-sleeved knit shirt

(i.e. a t-shirt, though that word makes it sound super casual)

pared with appropriate bottoms and accessories?

MsMary

Veteran

I wear knit tops to the office with jackets and pencil skirts or ankle pants. It needs to be good quality and I think a jacket or cardigan (or at least a scarf) is a must.

Also, I don't know if this matters to you, but I am sadly parting ways with Lands End after they pulled their catalog interview with Gloria Steinem.

catgirl

Veteran

MsMary, I'm with you there, although I've never worn much Lands End...

rachylou

Veteran

Got to be honest: I don't... enjoy... Gloria Steinem on the whole. I remember the Gloria crowd as being the people who wouldn't do phone banking because they were liberated and didn't answer phones anymore...

Ok. Just an aside. Not meaning to go astray...

Jen W

MsMary, thank you for your comment about Land's End. I purchase most of my kids' wardrobes from them, but no longer will.

Anonymous

Just chiming in to say I'm glad I no longer have to dress that way.

Jane

Veteran

Hi,

I have thought about this over the years, I work in a very formal conservative environment. Tights are required to be worn in summer!

A jacket is great indicator but, I think a slightly more subtle indicator of professional dress is soft dark carefully chosen colours and understated accessories. And when I cant think what to wear, a good crisp tailored shirt and neat pencil skirt always is a good option, white, pale blue or pale pink being the three colours I like!

Well done with the job.

Anonymous

Votre répYou should try a nice suit with a nice shirtonse

Thirkellgirl

Veteran

Now see, their sensitivity to customers who were offended by their partnership with Steinem is a positive thing. A lot of their clothes are (and always have been) very matronly, but I've been pleasantly surprised by their dresses and coats recently, and I've always been a fan of their bathing suits.

April

Veteran

I spent years supervising psychology interns who were coming into the "real" workplace for the first time after many years in the student world. I don't doubt you at all, katiwei, when you say you have a good handle on "business casual", but I do remember that all my interns thought they did, too, and they were almost always erring on the "way too casual' side.

MsMary is right (of course she is!) that knits can be done, but as a junior staff person, I would stay away. You're after something more polished. Woven fabrics, nothing overly snug, or short, or low-cut. Hose. Closed-toe pumps, heeled or flat. No statement jewelry. No wacky nail art.

If you have any body art, they will likely ask you to cover it. Piercings other than the most basic earlobe sort will also not be looked upon favorably, unless they are part of an ethnic tradition that you follow.

Here's a good rule of thumb: if someone looking at your outfit could imagine you wearing that outfit to do something other than being at your desk, it's probably not "professional" enough. If that seems overly strict, I maintain that it sounds like you aren't yet senior enough to bend the rules. Better to err on the side of too strict.

Anonymous

I agree with April.

katiwei

Thanks again, everyone! Your advice has helped a lot.

werper

Member

How fun it is to read the thread that beginned 5 years ago and realize that the dress code requirements have not changed. Yes, of course, there are many more structures now providing employees with the opportunity to dress informally. ButI also think there should be more of them. But it seems to me that business fashion could go far ahead in design.

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